Interesting comments on CNN about Hunter Biden

[question everything]

Last edited Sat Sep 16, 2023, 12:09 PM - Edit history (1)

and I admit I could not follow closely.

1. That judge had no authority to reject the plea agreement. The only time when this is done is when the judge concludes that the defendant was not competent to understand this.

2. The Supreme Court apparently ruled that one cannot obtain a gun if they have a criminal past but not if one is an addict.

Perhaps can be found online.

Any legal eagles here?

Here is the opinion piece

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/15/opinions/hunter-biden-indicted-gun-charges-spitzer/index.html

[riversedge]

1. I think Hunter is accused of Lying on his gun application about his drug use at the time.

[Happy Hoosier]

25. That's true, BUT....

The law he is accused of violating only applies to SUBSTANTIVE lies... that is, lies that would affect the the legal status of the application. If the drug use status of the applicant is considered to NOT be legal to consider, then a false answer to that question would NOT be substantive and thus, no violation of the law.

Heard some well-known legal eagle on MSNBC explain that. he expressed his opinion that he as very surprised the indictment was issued, since there is a good chance it just gets tossed.

[getagrip_already]

2. Did the judge actually reject the plea agreement?

My recollection was he asked for a clarification on an indemnity question to which the two sides could not agree. At that point the offer was withdrawn and the judge accepted that.

But I'm fuzzy on the specifics, but I do remember the two sides did not agree on indemnity from further charges.

[womanofthehills]

28. The judge is a woman- Judge Maryellen Noreika

Hunters lawyer wanted immunity for any future charges and the judge said no way . She also did not want to supervise his drug probation for 2 yrs - usually the DOJ does that but his lawyers wanted her to do it.

Hunter’s lawyers were the ones who said no deal.

[yagotme]

3. I don't quite understand your Q #2, but I'll take a stab:

You have to answer on the form 4473 if you are using or addicted to drugs, A yes answer will preclude you from buying a firearm. Hope this clears that one up.

[ALBliberal]

4. I appreciate the clarification one way or the other.

[ALBliberal]

5. Alcohol considered a drug? In this instance?

TIA if you happen to know?

[yagotme]

7. Cocaine.

Admitted in his book he was on drugs during time frame of purchase.

[thatdemguy]

13. Actually yes

The wording also says habitual drunkard. So under that an active alcoholic is not allowed to buy a gun.

[ALBliberal]

15. Informative. Thanks. Seems if this rule was

enforced there would be very few gun owners. And I can’t help but think about women’s invasion of privacy of late. Hypocrisy is name of their game.

[sl8]

21. Which wording? The law says "controlled substance" and nothing about alcohol. nt

[thatdemguy]

38. Ok I was wrong, its the maryland form that says it

[sl8]

39. Interesting.

First I'd heard of that, thanks. Looks like dealers can lose their license for being a habitual drunkard, also.

Maryland Firearms Statutes and Codes (PDF):
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/guide/maryland-firearms-statutes-and-codes/download

[sl8]

23. No, just controlled substances. nt

[Chainfire]

33. He is the question he is being accused of answering falsely.

ATF Form 4473, Question 21E, currently reads: “Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug or any other controlled substance?

Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside.”

[question everything]

19. I think that he implied that such question should not even be asked, only about crime

[CharleyDog]

6. Read an article saying only 12 people have been charged with same crime a Hunter

and all those cases involved a crime with the gun as well as lying on the application (for the gun)

from Dkos by Mark Sumner

In that year, 112,090 were denied a gun during the application process for submitting “falsified information.” Of those, 12,710 were referred to the ATF for further investigation. And of those, the total number actually prosecuted was … 12.

That’s just 0.01% of those whose forms were rejected for providing false information. What’s more, the cases were referred for prosecution “when aggravating circumstances exist, such as violent felonies or multiple serious offenses over a short period of time.” None of those circumstances apply to Hunter Biden.

[yagotme]

8. That's a burr under my saddle.

Calling for more laws, stricter background checks, when the tools are already there, but are not used. What are new laws going to accomplish, if not enforced along with the current law?

[madville]

14. That was just in that one year, 2018 I believe

Prosecutions for that crime have increased, into the hundreds per year since then, especially since Biden took office and the DOJ has more aggressively prosecuted gun crimes.

[stopdiggin]

9. I believe both are false

a) a judge can certainly reject a plea deal (although people are claiming that's not precisely what happened here)

b) the Supreme court has not made this ruling (lower court?)

[madville]

10. The judge didn't reject the plea agreement

1. The judge didn’t reject the plea agreement, she asked for clarification on the immunity portion and the two sides had disagreements, the government said it did not grant immunity for other crimes and the defense insisted it did grant a blanket immunity for other crimes not specifically in the agreement. The two sides voluntarily withdrew from the agreement when they couldn’t agree what the agreement actually did.

2. The Supreme Court didn’t make the ruling that the news keeps referencing, it was the 5th Circuit and is only currently applicable in Texas, Louisiana, and Mississippi. It basically says that the person in question was not under the influence of an illegal substance when they filled out the form and physically possessed the firearm so the question wasn’t answered untruthfully.

That gets a lot more down into the weeds of what is the meaning of “addicted to” or “a user of”. I drank a few beers last weekend but haven’t had any in 6 days, am I a “user of alcohol”? That sort of thing.

[yagotme]

11. Current Form 4473

https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download

Question f. "Controlled substance".

[madville]

17. It doesn't spell out a timeframe or definition

Of what a “user” is. How long does someone need to not be using to not be considered a “user”? A day, week, month, year, an hour, etc? It’s vague and not defined on the form, that was the basis of the 5th Circuit ruling since that guy was not actively using at the time he purchased or the times he physically possessed the firearm.

[yagotme]

18. I believe the argument is that Hunter himself

has admitted to using during same time frame as purchase and possession, therefore, lying on form. That's what they're hanging their hat on.

[madville]

20. Obviously

They have a pile of potential evidence against him, photos and videos that Hunter took of himself smoking crack, text messages, emails, voicemails, etc.

They have the police statements where Hallie Biden says she disposed of the gun in the trash because she was scared for him to have it due to his active drug use at the time. Will be interesting if she is called to testify.

[Qutzupalotl]

24. Amazing how he can video himself while he's passed out

with a crack pipe placed next to his mouth, like ya do. It's almost as if it would require “help.”

Lev Parnas is ow saying Hunter was set up. Yes, he was on drugs, but his situation was taken advantage of by those who wished the Bidens harm.

[madville]

27. Are you suggesting all the photos/videos

Were a setup? It’s obvious some, if not most, are selfies. Some were obviously taken in the company of and/or by different women. Or are you talking about a specific photo? I do recall one like you describe, where he is passed out with the crack pipe by/in his mouth, but there are many other photos and videos from different times, by himself and in the company of different people.

[Qutzupalotl]

30. I'm saying Lev says Hunter was set up "100%"

and he would know.Of course, that doesn't mean all his selfies are set ups. But the ones where he's passed out, someone is filming and possibly placing props. Hunter just passed out is not incriminating, but add a crack pipe…bingo. And young girls show up at his door…how, exactly?

Along with the other problems verifying data on the alleged “laptop” drive, no sane person would keep their incriminating selfies in a folder named “Hunter Biden salacious pics package.”

It's not that he didn't do most of the things depicted, it's that people knew he was impaired and took advantage. “Helped” him. Collected the evidence and mixed it with real emails and fake ones implicating his father, then deployed the “laptop” to Giuliani. It smells like an op, and Lev agrees.

[madville]

34. The laptop doesn't really matter so much at this point

Anything used as evidence will have been verified by multiple means. Cloud backups obtained, examined by forensic IT professionals, email exchange server backups records obtained, records subpoenaed from messaging apps, etc, etc.

From those records they can possibly find dealers he obtained crack from and some of the prostitutes he was doing crack with, offer immunity, conduct interviews, have them testify to the timeline.

Point is, the laptop is just a small piece of the case at this point yet some folks are still fixated on the origins of it which don’t really matter now.

[Qutzupalotl]

35. But since it occurred overseas, that wouldn't be a violation of U.S. law

which is why they're left with gun purchase forms and late taxes.

I disagree that we should ignore the laptop operation. It's central to swaying public opinion against Hunter, and, with false information, Joe.

[madville]

36. What occurred overseas?

Not sure what you’re referencing.

[Qutzupalotl]

37. The things you mentioned. If you meant they would go after him

on the drugs or prostitutes, and all that occurred overseas, those would not be violations of U.S. law. If you meant they would get witnesses to bolster the gun form falsification, okay.

[womanofthehills]

31. In one of the online videos, his female companion asks Hunter way he always leaves the video

camera running on his computer recording everything they do. That’s the video where he also says he thought his dealers were friends but they stole his computer. Makes you wonder how many computers are out there.

[womanofthehills]

29. He told the police Hallie took the gun from the glove compartment of his truck

Because she was afraid he would kill himself (according to Politico article) but in hacked texts posted online between Hallie & Hunter, she tells him she was upset because the gun was not secured - truck was open and children were around.

However, so many hacked photos/videos online on Hunter pointing a gun at the camera. Don’t know if that’s another gun or same. Not a smart move as we all know our computers can be hacked.

[Tickle]

12. The judge had to accept the plea deal

😂 can you imagine some of plea deals if a judge didn't need to approve it 😂

[Captain Zero]

22. Really. Uncle Thomas woulda been a prosecutor

In that case

[womanofthehills]

32. Hunter's lawyers pulled the plea deal

The judge wanted a few changes that Hunter’s lawyers did not like.

[T_A]

16. Hunter's Defense

His attorney, Abbe Lowell, is a master of the legal technicalities. He lays out almost all of his defense of Hunter here:

https://www.goodmorningamerica.com/news/video/hunter-bidens-attorney-talks-felony-gun-charges-103214817

[LetMyPeopleVote]

41. Abbe Lowell is a great attorney

One of my clients was represented by Abbe back in the 1990s and my client did very well.

[fredamoss3]

26. Well, if actually enforced equally for everyone, we could fill courts of a lot MAGAs and their guns.

There should be stiff penalties for non-enforcement of the current laws. If the law is ruled unconstitutional, than Hunter's case should be dismissed.

[former9thward]

40. Both are false.

#1. Of course the judge has to approve the agreement. That is why the parties were before her in court. If she did not have to approve it they would not be in her court. Not only that but the plea agreement tried to put the judge in charge of monitoring Biden's diversion agreement. Do you mean the agreement could force the judge to do something she didn't agree with? Wow...

#2 The Supreme court made no such ruling. An appeals court did but Delaware is not in that region so the ruling has no direct affect.