If Trump somehow wins the Presidency in the next election...

[kentuck]

Democrats should not recognize him as President of the United States. Of course, that would be against all the rules of democracy. But, that is what the Republicans did in the last election. They did not recognize the true winner of the election.

The difference being that Joe Biden was not a convicted criminal with 91 felony charges levied against him. He did not try to hoodwink the American people. How could any reasonable person support a president with such a record?

In my opinion, Democrats should declare now that they will not support Donald Trump if he is the elected president in the next election. There is no pretending to be "normal". His entire campaign is built on lies and illegitimacy. It would be wrong to try and "normalize" it, no matter how the next election might turn out.

We cannot pretend that we should follow the "rules of democracy" when the other side has no respect at all for "democracy".

In my opinion, if something so disastrous as a Trump victory were to happen, the Democratic Party should declare themselves the ruling Party in exile. There should be no cooperation with a criminal such as Trump, the rules of democracy be damned.

[gab13by13]

1. If Trump wins and gets one other branch, House or Senate

it will be a Pinocet-style takeover. There won't be an opportunity for Democrats to do anything.

[ancianita]

2. That "If" is not going to happen. Reality & Rule of Law is what's for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

[Effete Snob]

3. Rule of Law?

He's over 35, born a citizen, lived in the US for 14 years, and hasn't served two terms or two years of another term.

What law did you have in mind?

[ancianita]

4. This.

What other kind of rule of law do YOU have in mind. The hypothetical kind where he wins?

Why go with this fear hype when rule of law reality is happening in front of all of us.

[Effete Snob]

11. I don't understand what you are trying to say

A person who has the qualifications I listed will become president upon winning a majority of the electoral college, so I was intrigued by your reference to "rule of law".

I don't understand what you mean by "fear hype" or "rule of law reality". Maybe I'm just slow, but could you spell out what you mean?

In the past, there have been people who believe that, through some unspecified voodoo, a person convicted of a crime cannot be president. Those persons are mistaken. In fact, when Eugene Debs ran for president in 1920, he was behind bars and received 3.4% of the popular vote.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_V._Debs

Debs ran as a Socialist candidate for President of the United States five times: 1900 (earning 0.6 percent of the popular vote), 1904 (3.0 percent), 1908 (2.8 percent), 1912 (6.0 percent), and 1920 (3.4 percent), the last time from a prison cell.

[ancianita]

12. You equate trump's qualifications -- which at least a million of us have -- as proof that the

baseless hypothetical of the OP means something.

The numbers of 2020 and the midterms, and subsequent events of congressional evidentiary hearings and DOJ indictments do not support either of you.

But if you feel you must believe that what the US Constitution allows can and will happen, then your overall map -- though precise about qualifications and one historical example of a loser getting votes from prison -- is not accurate.


If after the reality of the last 3 years, and the constant discussions we have about the value of democracy, if you still don't understand what I'm trying to say, I'd prefer not to speculate that it might be because you don't want to, that you prefer to fear the possible over the joy and hope that current events shift the nation more solidly toward democracy.

If you want to believe in the possible, just don't present it as probable. Statistically, your precision isn't accuracy.

Maybe watch Biden's speech on democracy today. He gave one a year ago, too.

[Effete Snob]

13. I didn't say anything about what is likely, or probable

Yes, millions of people have the Constitutional qualifications to be president, and many of them are very shitty people. This is a democracy and it is not surprising that "who can be president" is not some narrow class of persons.

You seemed to suggest, at least the way I read it, that there is some "rule of law" that would prevent Trump from being president or, indeed as you put it, any of the other millions of people who have the requisite qualifications.

The subject line of the OP starts with the word "IF". It is not a prediction of who is likely to win, who is probable to win, or who will win. Neither is anything I said.

"If you want to believe in the possible, just don't present it as probable."

No one did. The OP is presented entirely as a hypothetical, and I can't imagine what sort of prediction you believe me to have made.

"But if you feel you must believe that what the US Constitution allows can and will happen"

The Constitution "allows" a person like Trump, and millions of other scumbags, to be president if elected to that office. The Constitution does not say what "will" happen.

If after the reality of the last 3 years, and the constant discussions we have about the value of democracy, if you still don't understand what I'm trying to say, I'd prefer not to speculate that it might be because you don't want to, that you prefer to fear the possible over the joy and hope that current events shift the nation more solidly toward democracy.

I did not need the "reality of the last 3 years" to value democracy, having lived in this one for considerably longer than three years. In 2016, I did not believe it possible that Trump could win either. If you've only been around for three years, read up on who won in 2016, despite my belief it could not happen.

It very well may be that a majority of the voters in this country, or in enough states to constitute an electoral college majority, do not value the "rule of law", "democracy" or anything other than wanting Trump to be their leader-god figure. In that event, the "rule of law" will become whatever the US Congress, President and Supreme Court deem it to be. Several years ago, the "rule of law" was that states cannot ban abortion. That is no longer the "rule of law", which you should realize is itself a moving target.

[ancianita]

26. I see. Fine. We agree on most of your points, just not my main point: a hypothetical about losing

to Trump is neither helpful to us, nor appropriate or logical at this stage of our preparing for 2024.
That was my point.

If you deny supporting the hypothetical OP with facts and history, cool. Fine.

Sure people can support the hypothetical OP as free speech. Folks are free to hypothesize all the "If"s they want.

Still.
1. I'll point that out when I see hypotheticals, because
2. After we Democrats have fought for what we've gained now, I don't see any positives in addressing hypothetical OP's that visualize dark scenarios, or even catastrophe.
3. After pointing out 1 and 2, I'll have made my "discussion" point and won't further engage with hypothetical OP's.

That's what I'm trying to say, and it shouldn't be hard to understand.

[EndlessWire]

41. Plan A: Win

Plan B: Move to another country.

Plan C: Die.

Never hurts to plan ahead. The 6 seconds of indecision will eff you up every time.

[XRubicon]

16. Impeachment, conviction and removal

He won't win but if he does he should be impeached and removed immediately for criminal acts in his first term.

[Effete Snob]

17. Yah, I thought that for several years between 2017 and 2021.

Ah, memories.

I gather you expect there will be 66 Democratic Senators in 2025, and a Democratic majority in the House.

[dalton99a]

5. Boycott his inauguration.

[samplegirl]

6. There can't be and won't be a trump

presidency!
People will go to the streets and I’m one of them!

[brooklynite]

10. You'll go to the streets and do what?

[Effete Snob]

18. Demonstrate to overturn an election, one supposes

[newdayneeded]

42. I have a feeling there are people on

this site who think it will be absolutely impossible for trump to win re-election. These are very scary points of views! We need to take this seriously, this bastard (somehow) is gaining popularity!

[kentuck]

43. They naively believe that every Democrat will vote for Biden.

The coup continues...

[newdayneeded]

45. That's one thing that's not brought up

here too much. millions of home buyers, both repub and dem are pissed off because they are taken out of the market from rising interest rates.

I've said it here before, if Biden let's interest rates go over 9%. His chances go way down to win.

[MiHale]

7. In spite of myself...

I’m getting myself mentally prepared for a non-Democratic takeover. Do I think it will happen? I hope not and have a belief that the outcome will be a Democratic win. It’s not…at this point…an unwavering belief so I find that a bit of preparation is a necessity.

If the coup gets to its completion and we are forced into a MAGA government…I for one will not recognize the legitimacy of that administration.
Exactly what that means and what actions it will entail will be decided at that time. I sincerely hope that it doesn’t come to that.

I realize that justice is a slow fine grind but dusk is upon us.

[roamer65]

22. If it happens, we would be better off as a province of Canada.

It will be time to start negotiations with Ottawa.

[Irish_Dem]

8. If he wins the election he is the president. The people have spoken.

If Trump becomes the president he is no longer our biggest problem.

The American people have decided to vote out democracy and install a ruthless dictator.
We have become part of the autocratic bloc of Russia, China, Iran, Saudi, NK.
Let that one sink in.

[dalton99a]

14. +1. If Trump gets in, he will never leave.

The GOP and the Trump Court will support his dictatorship 100%.

[Irish_Dem]

21. Putin and the oligarchs have skillfully corrupted the US political system.

But the oligarchs are not the brightest bulbs here.

In an autocracy the leader will use the oligarchs to rise to power.
Once in power the leader lets the oligarchs know they will be his dancing bears
and demands a cut of their money and total control. Or else. Stay away from windows.

[Aristus]

15. Or, as Aaron Sorkin put it,

we will have joined the League of Ordinary Nations.

[Effete Snob]

19. I would suggest the Organization of Shithole Countries

[MistakenLamb]

9. 🙄

[roamer65]

20. It would be the beginning of the breakup of the United States.

[Irish_Dem]

24. Putin and China's clear goal is to create civil war in the US. Divide and Conquer.

This is a common tactic going back to Ancient Rome.
Divide and conquer.

It has been quite easy for our enemies to use racism and made up hot button issues
to divide the country.

For Putin it has been like taking candy from a baby.

[roamer65]

28. +1

The question is if enough can see through the game in time. I doubt it.

If this country becomes a fascist dictatorship, the compact between the states established by the Constitution is null and void.

[Irish_Dem]

31. Under a fascist dictatorship, the US constitution is just a piece of paper with nice words.

The dictator tells us what the law of the land is.

[roamer65]

35. Just like Pinochet's Chile.

Yes.

[Irish_Dem]

36. Russia and China both have constitutions.

[roamer65]

39. ...that are worthless.

[Irish_Dem]

49. Exactly the MAGA goal here in the US.

[roamer65]

50. +1000

[marble falls]

23. Waste of time imagining what definitely will not happen.

[ancianita]

27. Thank you.

[marble falls]

29. I imagine a group of adults sitting next to a campfire in the spooky woods passing around ...

... a flashlight telling scary TFG stories while making s'mores.

[ancianita]

30. lol, good one! Obviously, we Democrats should be better than that.

As for me, I'd rather we sit by a campfire sharing spliffs and imagining how to future-proof a peaceful nation that leads others toward a climate mitigated world our descendants won't curse us for.

Or, beyond campfire speculations, regulate big tech to make sure that our coders and AI developers create a General AI that future proofs the world so that our human descendants thrive and create things we've never dreamed of.

[marble falls]

33. Taking a deep breath because Joe Biden is the adult in the Oval Office. Pass that dooby over, ...

... if you don't mind!

[ancianita]

38. ...

[marble falls]

40. Taking it out on the deck now. I have a nice morning in Marble Falls! Hope yours is even gooder!

[ancianita]

47. Awesome, dood ... just out on the porch snackin', enjoyin' a lake and big sky...

ready for Big Moon with Mercury, Venus & Jupiter tonite.

[marble falls]

51. Life is good with a Democratic administration! No doubts, we got to get to work on Texas tho in ...

...the meantime.

[ancianita]

53. Yes, it is. We also got to get to work on the other proudly unwoke states.

[Irish_Dem]

32. Putin and the MAGAs installed Trump once. Why do you think they cannot do it again?

Serious question.

How are things any different now?

[FelineOverlord]

25. It would get ugly. Very, very ugly.

Because Trump wants all his enemies imprisoned or executed.

He has at least 80M enemies in the United States alone.

Just ask Mussolini and Ceausescu how it ultimately worked out for them.

Or ask the Vichy government t and the Germans if the French Resistance “complied.”

[marble falls]

34. Ceausescu ... yikes. Maybe Milania needs to get that divorce lawyer on the clock!

[kentuck]

37. Some folks don't seem to understand what is happening at this very moment...

A Mob Boss in Mar-a-Lago is directing a political Party to impeach the present President of the United States on fake charges, as they threaten to shut down our entire government.

They do not and have not respected any rules of democracy. Those that wish to give them legitimacy "if they win" are out of touch with reality. They are not "winning" by the rules of democracy, they are attempting to steal an election for a criminal with lies and propaganda.

No one should accept such a verdict of the "people".

We must a make a choice to go along with the "results" or to present a challenge that is equal to what is happening at this time.

B-O-H-I-C-A - Bend Over, Here It Comes Again

[EndlessWire]

44. Well said.

They discussed curtains in a political debate and passed a dress code. They are not serious because they don't have to be. They have all their eggs in one pot, and that's called Trump.

[kentuck]

46. Republicans need to understand...

...that if they nominate and elect a convicted criminal, who tried to overthrow our government, then he will not be recognized as the legitimate leader of this country. Let them be forewarned. It cannot happen.

[Ms. Toad]

48. Please don't advocate that we act like Republicans.

I'm not one for a reason, and respect for the rule of law is a much more prominent reason under the current incarnation of the Republican party.

[Recycle_Guru]

52. why would we do that? are we not for rule of law?