What is going to happen to the 2 million people who cannot escape Gaza in 5 days?

[onecaliberal]

Without water, food, or medicine and spare me the comparison. The innocent people in Gaza have been made to suffer for decades. Will everyone be happy when hundreds of thousands are dead. Will that be enough revenge?
This world is so fucked.

[Xavier Breath]

1. I want to believe the vast majority here do not want to see that unfold

but there are probably...well, enough said. If it's on a screen and it isn't happening to you then it must be entertainment, right?

[onecaliberal]

2. I hear zero concern for Palestinian children.

[redqueen]

3. There seems to be way more bloodlust here now

I don't recall seeing this much even after 9/11

[obamanut2012]

32. I agree

Folks saying to line up 1,000 bulldozers at the border and drive 20 miles, crushing everyone and everything in their path. I mean wtf. And any time you push back, at eaest one person will say you are antisemitic, pro Hamas, or whatever. Jesus.

[redqueen]

42. It's depressing

seeing the Overton window being pushed further and further the wrong way

[Bear Creek]

56. Palestinians are semitic.

Everyone hollers when hammas does terrible things. They forget about Israelis killing children for throwing a rock, even killing an American child. Bull dosing homes and killing American activists trying to stop the systematic racism that the Israelis have in place against the Palestinians. Both sides are at fault. I am not anti Israel but the Palestinians were removed from their lands and deserve equal rights. Zionism sounds very close to national socialist?

[Zeitghost]

65. "Both sides are at fault"

Only one side in this conflict has the stated goal of the complete destruction of the other.

There are two sides to this conflict, neither of which is perfect, but just like the Ukrainian war, only one side is the agressor with the stated goal of eliminating the other from existence. .

[Bettie]

70. Only one side has this as a STATED goal

the other just moves in during the night and forces people out of their homes, declaring that everything belongs to them now.

Only one side keeps two million or so people in an open air prison camp

[Zeitghost]

73. Where else do you keep those

Who want to kill you and eliminate your people from the planet?

Israel can not exist peacefully with those who want to destroy it any more than Ukraine can live peacefully with Russia.

Those who continue to say "both sides" in either conflict have a not so hidden and disgusting agenda.

[Bear Creek]

179. Ethnic Cleansing

Has been done by Zionist since the the 1940s. And in the 1930s Britain massed troops in Paletine. They bombed , demolished homes, administrative detentions and killings. In a place called Yishuv a pre-state settler arms were smuggled and weapons factories constructed.
By the way Israel is still demolishing homes to this day and have murdered American citizens.

All of this is because of colonialism by Britain. Which has been made illegal to late.

[Zeitghost]

189. Ah, the old zionist line

Jews were given a piece of land smaller than New Hampshire in 1947. Some think them trying to defend it from those trying to finish what the Nazi's started is a crime.

[Bear Creek]

192. Wrong from the get go

Colonialism is wrong. Reparations should be given to the Palestinians. Israel has been murdering them before that Britain was murdering them. Sounds the same as the manifest destiny used to clear land of Native Americans and forcing them onto reservations. It's just the size of a state. Oh yes before you get on a roll. Hamas has done horrendous things.
The whole situation should have been handled differently from the very beginning. The welfare of those refugees and oppressed should have been a priority. It was the door opener for Hamas. It should have been Israel, Britain or USA the United Nations but they didn't.
Always works the same when will it be figured out that people need to be treated fairly.
Because someone was wronged does not give them the right to do the same to someone else who they think they are better than.

[Mosby]

200. Zionism isn't colonialism

Jews deserve indigenous rights in their homeland.

The Palestinians are recent arrivals to the Levant, part of colonial, imperialist conquests of the Arabs that also includes the Maghreb. Arabs originated from the Arabian Peninsula. It's analogous to the US, the NAs and Jews were just minding their business, until colonialists from far away lands decided to steal all the land and impose special rules on the natives (dhimmitude, reservations, mass relocations (BE), re-education). And periodically engaged in massacres and pogroms.

[treestar]

244. meh, it was created not even totally natural

do the Native Americans deserve their lands back?

Carelessly done without providing for the resident Palestinians there.

It had to be known it would create conflict.

[Mosby]

247. The US is stolen land, so yeah.

So is Canada and Australia.

[Demsrule86]

161. You are correct. This is the result of hard right policies and a breakdown in security. Hamas is

evil no doubt...There is no more despicable organization as we have seen by their dreadful behavior. But dire conditions in Gaza, the result of settlements, and bad policy are also a factor. So many innocents on both sides have died and will die. It makes me weep. I hope to God that Trump's loose lips in regard to national security did not aid Hamas in this evil plot.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

91. NO

That's supposedly HAMAS stated goal, NOT the Palestinian stated goal. Hamas does not represent all Palestinians.

WHY is that so difficult to understand?

[Zeitghost]

115. It's not

They represent most, just like Trump represents most Republicans.

Who keeps Hamas in power if not Palestinians? What is the consistent message from Palestinians outside Gaza, "From the River to the Sea" is the modern day equivalent of "Judenrein".

[scipan]

135. How do you know?

Following the Fatah–Hamas conflict that started in 2006, Hamas formed a government ruling the Gaza Strip without elections. Gazan Prime Minister Haniyye announced in September 2012 the formation of a second Hamas government, also without elections.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_citizenship_law#:~:text=Every%20Jew%20in%20the%20world,one%20parent%20is%20a%20citizen.

[Zeitghost]

159. Because they tell us with their words and actions

From the river to the sea, or as the Nazi's said, Judenrein.

[redqueen]

183. Almost half the country are children. nt

[MorbidButterflyTat]

150. Yes, how do you know?

Who keeps Hamas in power? How about Hamas? Do you think Hamas allows free and fair elections?

Just like Putin, right?

Palestinians outside Gaza? You know everything about all of them? How about the Palestinians who aren't able to post on social media?

"Gums" trump has been posting videos from Russia from years ago. But all the videos that reflect your myopic view are totally legit?

You do not speak for all Palestinians, or "most" Republicans.

[scipan]

164. +1

People are getting caught up by the horrible behavior of Hamas.

[Dorian Gray]

235. There has not been a vote

since 2006. So Hamas is keeping itself in power through non-democratic means.

It's easier to do when you keep a population poor and downtrodden and have your neighbors to blame for their every single woe.

This situation is beyond complicated, and I do not relish what is coming to Gaza. There are definitely innocent people there. Put they are pawns that Hamas is okay using in order to engender more anger at the Israeli people, and Israel has the right to defend itself after an attack like this.

A long history of hatred is difficult to overcome. We are seeing that play out now. I pray that the response is just and that no innocent people are harmed. I know that won't be true, so I mourn for them. Just as I mourn for all the innocent people harmed this past weekend in Israel.

But Hamas, as an organization, needs to be dealt a death blow. You can't make peace with a group who planned and orchestrated what happened this past weekend. It's evil.

(And too all those claiming it was JUSTIFIED bc of past actions... NO! You are wrong and justifying the face of evil.).

[Zeitghost]

242. You do understand

That the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank won't allow elections because Hamas would win in a landslide.

There is widespread support for Hamas by Palestinians in Gaza and abroad.

[Bear Creek]

180. Not Hamas

The Palestinians are Semitic is just a fact. They have the same DNA the only difference is the religions. What is so difficult to understand?

[treestar]

243. Not stated does not mean it is not a goal

both sides have atrocity stories. Both sides have committed atrocities. The rest of the world should really show being tired of it all and demanding both sides stop.

[treestar]

257. so being smart enough to not state it

doesn't matter?

Also stating it does not make it possible. We've heard cries of "Death to America." We don't react to those.

There's no way Israel can be destroyed at this point. No more than the US can be destroyed because someone wants to. Recalling Al Qaeda.

[carpetbagger]

72. Israelis are not Nazis.

The Nazi equivalent would be to go into Gaza and the West Bank in time of peace, force the civilian population into labor camps, and then kill half of the Palestinians in the world in cold blood, maybe 75-90 percent in the areas they control.


To me, Zionism sounds like American manifest destiny of the 19th Century. Big difference.

So no, not close.

[TiberiusB]

98. Nazis?

Did I miss something? When did they get compared to Nazis? I also imagine that when people make comparisons like that, they are referring to the Israeli government, not every last citizen.

Also, Manifest Destiny was the backdrop for the slaughter of Native Americans. I'm not sure I'd see that comparison as a win.

The delusion many are under is that there is a clear "good" guy and "bad" guy in this conflict. Both the Hamas leadership and Netanyahu's government benefit from such violence and chaos. Neither has clean hands.

Some questions to ponder:

Would Iran be funding the Hamas leaders to destabilize the region if the U.S. had not dropped out of the nuclear deal when Trump was running the show?

Is Russia looking to drag the U.S. out of Ukraine by forcing it to support two fronts? Remember, Russia and Iran have been growing closer over the past few years.

How does China benefit? The deal that the U.S. was brokering between it, Saudi Arabia, and Israel was at least partially meant to counter growing Chinese influence in the region.

As has been pointed out many times, is the killing of journalists and activists and the seizure of land on the West bank (along with the admission that the goal is the complete annexation of the region), coupled with the debilitating blockage around Gaza accomplishing anything other than making people so desperate that they see no other recourse than to turn to radical leaders for change? It's like if you push people down the economic ladder far enough, many turn to far right demagogues for hope.

There are many more angles to consider.

How far back do we want to go? The U.S. undermined a fledgling democracy in Iran over 60 years ago. Would the Ayatollah's have come to power if the Shah hadn't been installed to serve corporate and military interests in the U.S.?

It's all much more complex than "Palestinians are terrorists and Israel has a right to defend itself".

[carpetbagger]

107. "Zionism sounds very close to national socialist?"

That last sentence was what I was responding to.

I realize there's a lot of angles to consider, and I agree with much of what you say.

My simple point was that the national socialist ("Nazi" being the term in use in the 30s and 40s outside Germany) slaughter was fundamentally different and orders of magnitude different. There's no comparison, and the fact that the Israelis are the grandchildren of the survivors does not make the comparison any more acceptable.

[TiberiusB]

154. I am just concerned with labels in general

They tend to be a shortcut meant to silence debate more than advance any real discussion. Whether it's "Nazi" or "National Socialist", the goal seems to be more about stirring anger than digging down to the actual problem.
Everyone here is more than familiar with the "Socialist" and "Woke" black holes conservatives throw any critical thought into.

I often find "terrorist" to be another. It always reminds me of the "Freedom Fighters" in Nicaragua. They murdered thousands and were often as brutal as the government they opposed. It's always the same story. We support you, then you are a hero. We don't, you're the villain. Most often, it's people hungry for power treating the populace like disposable widgets.

[PufPuf23]

170. The murderers are the bad guys.

I am clueless about a solution.

The only solution partial near solution can conceive is a global coalition presumably under the UN intervening to separate the parties and impose and protect a two-state solution.

This is not going to happen, not a potential reality at present.

[Bear Creek]

181. They did go in

The removed people from their homes are are still doing it today. So they just made them refugees and didn't put them into a camp. But the Gaza seems to fit the bill.

[carpetbagger]

206. It doesn't make them Nazis.

I'm not arguing right or wrong. I'm arguing that they shouldn't be called Nazis. The Nazis did those things, but their goals were different and they did much worse.

I gave one example of what this injustice is closer to as a point of comparison. There are others.

[Mosby]

208. Jews were living in Israel thousands of years ago

And then the Arab imperialists came and murdered them, enslaved them, stole their land and eventually exiled them to Babylon.

[uponit7771]

225. So China has a valid argument about land they're claiming from other countries?!?!?

China is literally using this same argument of shit that happen hundreds and thousands of years ago to claim land that isn't theirs

Damn, I've been sleep on this issue too long

[Mosby]

236. Chinese aren't an ethnoreligious group

Do you even support indigenous rights?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.un.org/development/desa/indigenouspeoples/wp-content/uploads/sites/19/2018/11/UNDRIP_E_web.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjnqsnpku6BAxVoFTQIHYGmDZIQFnoECBcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2

[uponit7771]

253. What difference does it make if they're religious or not? They're using the same dumbass argument

... decline land that's not theirs

They're 8 billion people on earth. Everybody's religion doesn't matter to everybody

[treestar]

249. how long ago do we have to repair these things for?

Other western countries should have opened their borders, rather than create a state right in the middle of people who want to "push us into the ocean."

As am American I don't get the hanging onto a piece of land for centuries when your family has been gone from it for centuries.

There is a lot of planetary migration and it can't all be fixed.

Reminds me of the 90s in the Balkans - communism was gone, so now it was time to kill people over 13th century disputes. Maybe being American makes us unsympathetic to this stuff in a grand way.

[Mosby]

250. The Jews never left.

And they didn't assimilate either.

It's not even remotely appropriate in 2023 to discuss whether Israel should exist or not.

[treestar]

255. why not just migrate naturally?

this would have left the Palestinians sort of there like Native Americans.

I'm able to be objective. Palestinians were/are people too. They don't have a right for their country to exist. And they have to duty to control terrorists or it is OK to kill them.

[radicalleft]

270. I learned something today...

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-diaspora

The Jewish state comes to an end in 70 AD, when the Romans begin to actively drive Jews from the home they had lived in for over a millennium. But the Jewish Diaspora ("diaspora" ="dispersion, scattering&quot had begun long before the Romans had even dreamed of Judaea. When the Assyrians conquered Israel in 722, the Hebrew inhabitants were scattered all over the Middle East; these early victims of the dispersion disappeared utterly from the pages of history. However, when Nebuchadnezzar deported the Judaeans in 597 and 586 BC, he allowed them to remain in a unified community in Babylon. Another group of Judaeans fled to Egypt, where they settled in the Nile delta. So from 597 onwards, there were three distinct groups of Hebrews: a group in Babylon and other parts of the Middle East, a group in Judaea, and another group in Egypt. Thus, 597 is considered the beginning date of the Jewish Diaspora. While Cyrus the Persian allowed the Judaeans to return to their homeland in 538 BC, most chose to remain in Babylon. A large number of Jews in Egypt became mercenaries in Upper Egypt on an island called the Elephantine. All of these Jews retained their religion, identity, and social customs; both under the Persians and the Greeks, they were allowed to run their lives under their own laws. Some converted to other religions; still others combined the Yahweh cult with local cults; but the majority clung to the Hebraic religion and its new-found core document, the Torah.

In 63 BC, Judaea became a protectorate of Rome. Coming under the administration of a governor, Judaea was allowed a king; the governor's business was to regulate trade and maximize tax revenue. While the Jews despised the Greeks, the Romans were a nightmare. Governorships were bought at high prices; the governors would attempt to squeeze as much revenue as possible from their regions and pocket as much as they could. Even with a Jewish king, the Judaeans revolted in 70 AD, a desperate revolt that ended tragically. In 73 AD, the last of the revolutionaries were holed up in a mountain fort called Masada; the Romans had besieged the fort for two years, and the 1,000 men, women, and children inside were beginning to starve. In desperation, the Jewish revolutionaries killed themselves rather than surrender to the Romans. The Romans then destroyed Jerusalem, annexed Judaea as a Roman province, and systematically drove the Jews from Palestine. After 73 AD, Hebrew history would only be the history of the Diaspora as the Jews and their world view spread over Africa, Asia, and Europe.

It seems that is was the Romans who ultimatley drove the Jews from Palistine

[Magoo48]

129. Agreed, there was a time when liberals stood for peace and abhorred slaughter and cruelty

no matter who was “responsible”. My rule of thumb has always been that I do not support any killing that I would participate in.

It’s easy to be a bloodthirsty hawk when thousands of miles removed from the fact.

[redqueen]

156. The bravery of being out of range nt

[Alexander Of Assyria]

9. Just as the mass media wants the level of concern for THOSE children to be...and apparently

is, even here. Dozens human children in Gaza killed just now…hundreds injured and mentally scarred for life…look away is so easy if you want to..just believe it isn’t happening…believe in Santa Claus…believe Palestinian children don’t have parents…just believe…

It’s sad and tragic. Terrorists and innocents on both sides and all sides…the ones being terrorized only count as a necessity for the terrorists of all sides.

[Xavier Breath]

10. I haven't read every thread and every post here on this subject

but in what I have read I would tend to agree. The focus seems to be on the horror of the initial attack (and naturally so) and for the answer to come.

[sarisataka]

18. To be fair,

You posted about the lack of concern after only 3 minutes

My preference is that no civilians would have been killed and none killed by the reaction to the atrocities of the terrorists who claim to represent them.

Having been in wars, I know too well the plight of civilians in combat.

The fate of Palestinian children is out of their hands. It is up to Israel to use precision attacks to limit collateral damage and up to Hamas to chose to not use the Palestinian children (and adults) as human shields.

Unfortunately both you and I care more for the children than either of the parties. Hopefully my worst fears will not come true

[Cha]

28. Any Concern from you for

Israeli Children and women & men?

[Bear Creek]

37. About the same

As rich white folks here that have used systemic racism

[onecaliberal]

39. I am concerned for all of the innocent. I am making an observation. /END

[womanofthehills]

66. Concern for people on both sides

Even wars have moral standards - starving almost a million Palestine children is against international war standards.

[onecaliberal]

88. THIS

[MorbidButterflyTat]

93. +1

Not to mention inhuman.

[Beastly Boy]

95. This is on Hamas. International law is clear on that.

And sadly, terrorists are not bound by any moral standards.

[Quixote1818]

125. Yes! nt

[Celerity]

57. I have massive concerns for them. One of the radical RW Likudnik types told a Swedish reporter

on telly here that (translating from SVT's Hebrew to Swedish translation and then to English) Gazans have a choice: lead or water. If they don't like that choice, then they can complain to Hamas.

smdh

Hopefully she is not in a position of true power there.

[Beastly Boy]

86. On both sides, right?

[Skittles]

90. I'm disgusted with both sides

How fucking long has this been going on? It's always the children who suffer, and inherit the hatred. UGH

[MorbidButterflyTat]

94. +1

[debm55]

100. I agree Skittles.

[obamanut2012]

102. Exactly

[treestar]

246. +1

imagine growing up there and learning as you grow up.

[Demsrule86]

160. I don't feel that way...the conditions on GAZA have been and are horrific Where will they go?

As far as I know, no Arab Country will let refugees in...not even kids.

[womanofthehills]

169. Agree - half of the 2.2 million people jammed like sardines in a tiny area are children

Is our country going to help Israel when Israel’s deputy minister on video says he will starve them all and cut off all electricity, food and fuel. The poor people cannot even get fish from the sea as Israeli boats patrol the water - no fishing allowed.

srael Defense Minister Yoav Gallant:

"I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed. We are fighting human animals and we will act accordingly."

Link to tweet

?s=46&t=YZgyyp4w_z7vW3neKxa6cQ

[onecaliberal]

265. Yes, we are going to stand by. The babies in the nicu are dead once the power was turned off.

But who cares right they deserve it for being born in the wrong country.

[totodeinhere]

212. And in your OP you showed zero concern for murdered Jewish children. n/t

[womanofthehills]

259. No one showed O concern for murdered children

Murdering more children in revenge is not the answer - it’s an evil and inhumane response and if this continues we will see revenge for yrs throughout the world.

[totodeinhere]

271. Then what would you have Israel do? Do you really expect no response to the atrocities

committed by Hamas?

[treestar]

256. and an expectation that we cheer on killing them

and if we don't, we are anti-semitic. They should have controlled Hamas.

Like 911, when Afghanis should have controlled the Taliban and thus deserved to be hit with bombs, since the Taliban let Al Qaeda train in the area.

[onecaliberal]

260. I'm so disgusted.

Bin Laden also said Americans deserved it on 9/11 because of our foreign policy.

[jmbar2]

4. I'm horrified by the terrorism by Hamas, and equally by the threat to the people in Gaza

I pray that cooler heads prevail and come up with some other plan.

One of the lessons from the Vietnam war was that you have to have an exit plan before you go in. I cannot see any kind of exit from this impending atrocity. I terrifies me that it will set off WWIII on multiple fronts, and that other nations (China, N. Korea) will take advantage of the US being split between so many wars.

[ripcord]

5. Unfortunately Hamas umis the governent of Gaza

And much the same as the German and Japanese civilians of WW2 they are going to pay the price of their governments action in order to end an evil regime.

[littlemissmartypants]

6. What's a "umis"...?

[whopis01]

71. It appears to be a typo of "is". n/t

[redqueen]

8. Their government?

Was it the Japanese government who funded the Nazi party when they were bankrupt?

[Marius25]

36. The Japanese government bombed Pearl Harbor

As a result, 200,000 civilians paid the price for it after the atomic bombs were dropped.

That's their point.

[EX500rider]

116. No, it was German industrialists

https://lithub.com/in-the-room-where-german-tycoons-agreed-to-fund-hitlers-rise-to-power/

[EX500rider]

118. Like it or not, the Nazi Party WAS the german govt

[redqueen]

153. That was AFTER they almost went bankrupt. nt

[treestar]

245. is it elected?

Didn't we deserve 911 then? After all the stuff we did in the middle east?

None of this is sympathetic any more.

[BannonsLiver]

7. They will be used a human shields by Hamas

Or was the question rhetorical?

[Arazi]

16. Without water, they'll be dead "human shields"

[BannonsLiver]

17. That won't matter to either side, most likely.

[NickB79]

11. Egypt could open their border to let them through

But Egypt doesn't want Hamas in their country any more than Israel.

[Marius25]

38. That's why both countries have a blockade.

Any country on Earth would blockade Gaza when it's run by terrorists.

[Demsrule86]

162. Arab nations turned their backs on Palestinians many years ago...oh sure they use them

for propaganda but offer no help. They have not allowed refugees in Egypt and I doubt it will be different now.

[inthewind21]

193. Huh

So you think closing their border to the Palestinian's will keep Hamas out? Makes sense, it is after all common knowledge that terrorist groups work within the established rules! !

[EX500rider]

219. The Gaza/Eygpt border is only 7 miles long, Eygpt can certainly close that

[malaise]

12. Are you watching and listening?

Looks like collateral damage.
No one chose them.

[BannonsLiver]

13. Is that a reference to Jewish people being called the chosen people?

[sarisataka]

14. Hopefully the Palestinian civilians will heed the warnings

And at least get away from Hamas facilities. Into the countryside would be better.

Aid could be sent via Egypt to provide basic necessities, if Egypt would allow that.

Sadly for those who cannot get away from fighting, they will try to do their best to survive- as noncombatants have done throughout history.

[onenote]

21. Pretty clear that Egypt doesn't care about the children of Gaza.

[Demsrule86]

163. If there is no water, they will die. Do you understand how important water is in the climate?

You likely would not need to actually kill them with bombs. It is just a horrible situation.

[sarisataka]

168. You shouldn't call out a person

If you don't know their history.

I have spent quite a bit of time in similar climates. Even more severe than the eastern Mediterranean coastal climate. So yes, I know very well the importance of water.

It is possible to survive without supplied water, though I admit it is difficult and not a pleasant experience.

As I mentioned, aid could be supplied through Egypt. Elsewhere I detailed how Hamas could set up demilitarized safe areas for civilians to shelter away from the fighting. That is if they care about the lives of the people they claim to be fighting for.

[womanofthehills]

171. " Into the countryside" ??

Gaza is 25 miles long and 7.5 miles wide (141 sq miles) and 2.2 million people live there - half under 19 yrs old. One of the world’s most densely populated areas.

“The Gaza Strip covers an area approximately ten kilometers wide and 41 kilometers long. Just over two million people live there, which means an average of around 5,500 people per square kilometer. In Israel, the average population density is around 400 people per square kilometer.”
https://www.dw.com/en/what-to-know-about-the-gaza-strip/a-67034652

[EX500rider]

220. And yet it has countryside

All the white areas are outside the city/urban area

[Celerity]

191. Gaza is the 3rd most densely populated area on the planet. 2.2 million people stuffed into an

area smaller than the little hunk of rock in the ocean (Bim, aka Barbados) my mum came from.

[cally]

15. Very few seem to care

But many will die hideous deaths when they had nothing to do with Hamas atrocities. I can’t believe what I’m reading here and listening to on media. Have we learned nothing? Massacring innocents is not the answer.

[redqueen]

19. It seems few have learned much at all nt

[moonshinegnomie]

20. if i was in charge of israel here is what i would do first

take the convicted hamas terrorists in israeli jails.

announce that for ever hostage killed multiple terrorists will be executed. also start tying terrorists to IDF vehicles to use as human shields

Hamas wants to be murderous thugs,I see no reason why israel shouldnt treat those terrorists its already caught any different

[EX500rider]

122. "Yes, they do kill them."

The number of Palestinians currently behind Israeli bars is 5,200

[EX500rider]

252. Fee free to link to where the IDF routinely kills prisoners.

[sarisataka]

29. Answering atrocities

With war crimes is not only morally wrong it won't increase any support for Israel.

Look how many already are saying the mass murders, rapes and executions of children by Hamas are Israel's fault.

[moonshinegnomie]

31. i'd go one step further too

a lot of the violence is tied to the "holy sites" in jerusalem. if its not ultra orthodox trying to beat people at teh western wall because they arent also ultra orthodox,muslims attacking people over a perceived slight at the temple mount or fundie christians at the church of the christian holy sites id but an end to it. by razing all 3 to the ground. erasing every trace of all 3 sites.

[HUAJIAO]

58. That'll really fix the problem.

[redqueen]

158. Probably not

but now I'm really curious how that would play out

[roamer65]

26. I can believe it.

Humans suck.

[inthewind21]

54. I can

believe it.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

99. I can't believe what I'm reading here either

I have been deliberately avoiding the media because it makes me sick.

[RussBLib]

22. The massacre of Palestinian civilians....

....is as wrong as the massacre of Israelis.

https://russblib.blogspot.com/

[roamer65]

23. Genocide.

The world is standing aside for the ethnic cleansing of Gaza.

[ZonkerHarris]

27. And it's disgusting. Replace Gaza with the Warsaw ghetto and then how do people feel?

Very much the same thing, very similar

[moonshinegnomie]

34. not nearly the same

for one thing the citizens of gaza support hamas

[ZonkerHarris]

67. Yeah, live with a boot on your neck for 50 years and you want to overthrow your occupiers

Because occupiers will always be resisted. That's what history has shown us
Now maybe I'm wrong about you personally. If your state or town were occupied and your rights were taken away people were tortured and killed Etcetera for 50 years you probably go along with it and be cool with your occupiers right?

[Dave says]

106. They could have chosen the way of Gandhi and MLK

[carpetbagger]

121. I'm afraid those tactics don't have resonance in the 21st Century.

This one still seems fresh after what's now 20 years. And it was treated with ridicule in Israeli and American media.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Corrie

[redqueen]

184. Almost half the citizens of Gaza are children.

Hope that 'but they support Hamas!' rationalization stops being used it's getting really old.

[moonshinegnomie]

187. so whats your solution to eliminate hamas

hamas is no better than the nazis of WW2. i've seen the video of them tossing a grenade into a bomb shelter.
there can be no negotiation. no ceasefire. hamas must be elimitaed from the planet. If you know anothe way to do that im sure the world would like to know it.


it sucks for the children of gaza but it sucks to be a kid in any war. but I dont see another option that will destroy Hamas

[BannonsLiver]

45. I'll take comically false equivalencies for $500, Ken.

[roamer65]

46. +1000

[sarisataka]

53. I will assume

You are not familiar with history and that is the reason you make such an inaccurate analogy

[Beastly Boy]

104. What do you know about the Warsaw ghetto?

[Zeitghost]

40. Only one side in this conflict

Has the stated goal of the complete elimination of the other as a country and as a people.

If were going to throw around words like genocide, lets apply it to those who's stated goal is literally genocide.

[onecaliberal]

44. THIS

[Beastly Boy]

111. What is the difference between genocide and ethnic cleansing?

This is not an idle question. Without fully understanding both terms, talking about either is little more than grandstanding.

[roamer65]

113. If you are a European American like I am, you are a beneficiary of both.

Ask Native Americans.

Both were utilized to steal their lands here in the Americas, to make it “suitable” for European American colonization.

[Beastly Boy]

126. This neither describes nor defines genocide or ethnic cleansing.

Look them up. You may find that these terms don't mean what you think they mean.

[roamer65]

133. Looks like I touched a nerve.

Are you a European American?

Maybe you need to read about the Trail of Tears.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears

[Beastly Boy]

138. I sincerely hope you did, but I feel nothing.

Now, does your reference to the Trail of tears have to do with genocide, ethnic cleansing, Zionism or none of the above? Because it doesn't define either.

[roamer65]

140. It's obvious that you don't feel anything.

You lack empathy, just by your statement.

Our contact is done.

[Beastly Boy]

142. Ooh, now I feel something. it feels a little bit like...

disappointment: I will never find out how much you know about genocide, ethnic cleansing, Zionism, Judaism or the Roman Empire.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

151. +1

[treestar]

261. Ethnic cleansing is pushing people out

without killing them, genocide is killing.

Though genocide can be extended to trying to kill the culture - this is how Native Americans are said to be subjected to it. No camps for killing them, and they could fight back. But their culture was to be eliminated by taking their kids to learn American ways.

I think it was called that in the Balkans, because one side said the land was theirs (from a dispute from the 13th century) so the other side should leave and go where they came from nearby.

[EllieBC]

24. Is Egypt not helping them?

Why not?

[sarisataka]

30. We don't talk about that. nt

[EllieBC]

33. Oh I'm aware.

It’s like that southern border of Gaza doesn’t exist to people.

[Zeitghost]

43. Because

They don't wan't terrorists in their country either.

[roamer65]

47. So you are labeling all Gazans terrorists?

Wow.

[EllieBC]

48. So why isn't Egypt helping?

Is there no answer bedsides, “dunno someone else’s problem?”

[Ace Rothstein]

166. Because it is a very poor and radicalized population.

Palestinians have also caused a lot of problems in the past to places that let them in as refugees.

[Demsrule86]

194. They were never allowed in Arab countries...but were used for decades...

Everyone is to blame here. Is Israel prepared to kill them all women kids etc.? Leaving them there to starve so close to the border with no food, no jobs and no hope will only create more violence...the right-wing policy of cracking down and building new settlements has led to this as much as anything. And what is the solution? Right now 1000's are dead and being held hostage. It is horrifying. I see both sides. By that I mean the people of GAZA and the horrors of the attack in Israel. Hamas on the other hand needs to be destroyed. I would also like Natanayu to explain how his security failed so badly. Honestly, this is more evidence that the right can't govern anywhere.
..
'

[Ace Rothstein]

205. They were allowed in both Lebanon and Jordan.

In both countries they led an insurgency.

[treestar]

263. Gazans today presumed to do the same

seems like a generalization.

[Ace Rothstein]

268. However you want to label it.

It is reality and why nobody has been jumping to take in Palestinian refugees for the past 4 decades.

[Demsrule86]

272. Seriously...ever here of a place called Syraia?

They were kicked out and blamed. They are always blamed...maybe sometimes it is true...I don't know. But having all those hopeless people 12 miles from Israel's border will inevitably lead to conflict. Again, Netanyahu dropped the ball both in policy and security. He thought he could contain Hamas. But no one could.

No matter what happened years ago, right now as we speak, there is no place for the people of Gaza to go. I expect Hamas will get out of Dodge just fine as they have resources like vehicles and petrol...those who remain because there is no place to go will die...many are innocent. I hate that.

[Zeitghost]

51. What's your method

Of discriminating between Hamas and Palestinian? Should they just ask as they pass on through?

It's a bit like discriminating between Magat and Republican. There are differences, but trying to tell on an individual level can be hard.


The Palestinian people continue to support Hamas and put them in power. Not all, but most. And as long as they continue to do so, they will head down this path.

[roamer65]

55. Why do they support Hamas?

Because they have lost hope for fairness and equality.

You would get the same answer from President Carter.

Apartheid is apartheid.

[Zeitghost]

59. And...

They want the complete and total destruction of Israel and it's people.

We can pretend they don't, but their actions and words give them away.

[roamer65]

60. Won't happen if we give the Palestinian people hope.

A true peace process.

[Zeitghost]

62. They have continiuosly

Rejected any peace process that did not end the State of Israel. When they say they want it eliminated, they mean it. They have never wavered from that position from 1947 until today and until they do, peace is impossible.

[roamer65]

63. "Those who live by the sword, shall indeed die by it."

New Testament I do believe.

[Zeitghost]

64. Fitting words

For Hamas. Although "rocket" is probably a more fitting reference.

They have chosen bloodshed every time for going on 8 decades.

[Beastly Boy]

117. Nope. It's because not supporting Hamas is life-threaqtening.

Those who sincerely support Hamas don't worry about it, but those who don't, have to adjust.

[Dave says]

109. I read earlier (DU post) that they haven't had free, transparent, open elections in 15 years

If true, kinda hard therefore to say the Gaza Palestinians chose their government. More like it's another bootheel on their necks. It must be exhausting for them.

[roamer65]

120. +1000

…and not surprising.

It’s a religious extremist cult just like hard core Zionism and MAGA.

[Beastly Boy]

130. Zionism is only a religious cult if you read Iranian propaganda.

To most people (except an offshoot that calls itself religious Zionism), it is a secular movement.

One more thing to look up.

[roamer65]

131. It's predominantly far right Judaism.

…and deserves to be crushed just like fundamentalist Christianity, Wahhabi Islam, etc, etc.

[Beastly Boy]

137. It is not. In fact it is not even related to Judaism

Unless what you mean by Judaism is not a religion but anything that has the remotest connection with the Jews.

Zionism was founded by a secular academic over 100 years ago.. It grew into a labor movement, and a political movement before anyone ever heard of religious Zionism.

'One more term to look up: Judaism. It definitely doesn't mean what you think it means.

[Sgent]

172. Most far right Jews

are anti-Zionist and believe the state shouldn't exist. The Orthodox Jews opposed the founding of the state, and ultra-Orthodox like Satmar still believe that any Jewish state not founded by the Messiah is evil.

[roamer65]

174. But there they sit and inhabit illegal settlements.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/what-to-know-about-netanyahus-far-right-government-in-israel/2023/01/16/f703578e-959a-11ed-a173-61e055ec24ef_story.html

That Bezalel Smotrich sounds like a real loser. A nice mix of far right politics and religion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bezalel_Smotrich

[obamanut2012]

134. You need to look on a mirror

My God, what you are saying is really bad.

[uponit7771]

226. 'and put them in power. " the Palestinian people have NOT spoken recently on who is to lead them

[EX500rider]

128. Egypt has found when the border is open Gaza DOES export terrorists, thats why it is closed

Does not have to be ALL Gazans.

[inthewind21]

195. Who knew

That a border is all that is needed to stop/contain terrorists! Good God we should build that wall stat!!!!!!

[EX500rider]

196. The Egypt Gaza border is much smaller than the Israel

The Egypt Gaza border is much smaller than the Israel Border and thus that's easier to guard

[EX500rider]

216. The Egyptian/Gaza border is only 7 miles long. nt

[treestar]

262. since 1948 the demand that Arab countries

take them in has not been carried out.

Where they do, they don't allow them to become citizens, even their descendants born there.

Yet they speak the same language and have the same religion, per various arguments I have heard. Though that may not be so much the case -- the language can have different dialects and obviously Islam can vary within itself.

[CCExile]

35. If it's not happening on their block,

all is just entertainment to the right.

[inthewind21]

197. The right?

Take a look right here, a LEFT leaning site. Sorry, but several of the comments right here have blurred the line between right and left.

[CCExile]

237. Complex problems and frustration

will do that! That's why principles are important.

[roamer65]

49. We are seeing the beginnings of WW3, onecaliberal.

Start your preparations for it.

I am.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

103. ???

[ripcord]

50. Every time Hamas carries out an attack people get upset when they strike back

How long is Israel supposed to endure terrorist attacks? With Hamas being impeded with the population there will never be a time when Israel can deal with Hamas without civilians getting caught up in it. If the world is so outraged let the world deal with Hamas because something will be done.

[Zeitghost]

52. How long is Israel supposed to endure terrorist attacks?

For many, the answer is unfortunately, "Until they no longer exist".

[JI7]

68. Hamas executes Palestinians they see as not being anti Israel enough

or going against Islam such as lgbtq .

[onecaliberal]

69. My concern is FOR the INNOCENT people.

[JI7]

75. Those Palestinians they execute are innocent

[onecaliberal]

76. No Kidding. What is your point? I already reiterated that I am concerned for the innocent.

[JI7]

77. So come up with a way to get rid of Hamas and present that plan to the world

[onecaliberal]

79. I'm done with this conversation. Your comment is not serious. I can be concerned for anyone I

damn well please and I sure don't need permission from you or anyone else.

[roamer65]

80. +1000

damn straight.

[uponit7771]

227. Easy, occupy GAZA and separate all men and boys into sub ghetto for 2yrs ...

... tag and disarm them forcing them into rebuilding parts of Gaza.

Might as well go full on human rights violations but this will no doubt separate military aged men and stem the fighting

[treestar]

264. apparently they mean that

Hamas kills the same people, so it's OK for Israel to do it, as they will die anyway?

[liberalmuse]

74. Collective punishment by the unevolved.

The US did it after 9/11, killing millions of innocents. Weak leaders do it to rally discontents behind them and sadly, it works. This entire situation is heartbreaking. The worst among us never tire of perpetuating horrors against the innocent to further their agendas.

[Dave says]

112. Exactly

Which is why this is such a heartbreaking tragedy.

[Sgent]

173. And when we got sick of war

we just uprooted and let ISIS take over Iraq and the Taliban Afghanistan. Unlike us, Israel actually lives next to Gaza.

[peppertree]

78. Like the honey badger, Bibi don't care

He got the war he wanted - and needed, to salvage his regime.

His own "Israel is at war" announcement said it all: he was practically fist-pumping his way through it.

[roamer65]

81. [phone]

[peppertree]

147. Thank you very much

What I'd like to know is: who disactivated the sophisticated perimeter separating Gaza from Israel? (and without detection!)

This, after all, is what made the assault possible.

One of two probable scenarios:

Cheeto shared the intel with Russia - thus making its way to Hamas (the more likely scenario);

Or Bibi did it himself - to give his flailing regime the causus belli it so desperately needs.

[EX500rider]

222. Or you could read the news and find out

Hamas flew small drones over the cameras & sensors and dropped explosives on them.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

108. +1

Sickening disgusting criminal.

[peppertree]

148. Thank you kindly

There isn't much I'd put past him - or his pal Trump.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=18346739

[Beastly Boy]

82. Hamas doesn't care

[roamer65]

127. Of course they don't care.

They are religious extremism cult, just like far right Zionism and MAGA.

Extremist religions of ALL flavors to be eliminated.

The Roman Empire knew how to deal with the problem very well.

[Beastly Boy]

132. Dor gawd's sake and your own, look up Zionism!

And what exactly are you trying to say about the Roman Empire?

[oldsoftie]

83. Maybe Egypt can open its border and let them cross?

I mean, they care, right?

[Arazi]

136. They've tried before and Hamas terrorists come through

And wreak havoc and terror in Egypt.

There’s a reason Palestinians aren’t allowed in - any of them. “Innocents” aren’t trusted to actually be so innocent

[oldsoftie]

143. Thank you!

[onecaliberal]

267. I am talking about CHILDREN, NOT HAMAS.

[Arazi]

269. At annual summer camps, Hamas trains children...

Hamas has permeated the fabric of the Palestinian world in Gaza. No country is going to let them in

https://www.timesofisrael.com/at-annual-summer-camps-hamas-trains-kids-to-fire-guns-kidnap-soldiers/amp/

[BrightKnight]

177. I suspect the refugees are going to be about as popular as nuclear waste.

Nobody wants it in their backyard.

The people of Gaza voted for Hamas.

[inthewind21]

199. Oh my

When exactly was the last election in Gaza? Abd did those million children also vote?

[uponit7771]

229. The current Palestinian population did **NOT** vote for Hamas

[onecaliberal]

85. WOW!

[Cha]

87. WHY Didn't HAMAS Give A

Shit about the Palestinians?

[onecaliberal]

89. The same reason they don't care about Isreal.

[Dave says]

119. And that reason is?

Not being snarky. I just don't understand why these things happen. It is heartbreaking.

[onecaliberal]

141. They want to rule and control.

The religious grievance goes back a very long time. Hamas reps the Palestinians like MAGA reps us.

[redqueen]

155. And like Netanyahu reps Israelis

His support was slightly less than half the country last I saw

[mike_c]

92. collective reprisals against civilians

Same as it ever was.

[slightlv]

97. I'm going to get my butt kicked, but I don't care...

the only people I think are dancing right now are the evangelicals... they've got their apocalyptic war started, just like they wanted. Hope their white Jesus doesn't disappoint them. I also hope the nuke falls on them first.

Me... I'll be crying for the women and children, and innocent men of Israel and Palestine who have tried to reach across and make inroads for ages. I've read their stories through the Israeli papers. They're the peacemakers in this story... and they're all probably already dead. On both sides. It all tears my heart out. Yes... what Hammas did is horrible. And I have every reason to believe it was backed by Iran, egged on and backed by Putin, who got the initial information by *rump... which means, at the core, we are to blame because our country elected him to have access to top secret documents. Which we willingly gave or sold just to sow chaos and for his own self gain. We also have intimate knowledge of what happens when you ghettoize thousands of people without access to good work, enough food, water, and medicine into ever decreasing spaces. You get riots and eventually full blown violence. That isn't an excuse. It's an understanding of human nature and how Putin and Iran pushed buttons. And it didn't happen overnight. This was 1000 well trained, well-armed men that did this. But Palestinians are more than just Hammas... and they are much more than just these 1000 men. And word is going around (unsubstantiated (at least by me) that Bibi had some forewarning that something big was coming down... much like Bush about 9-11.

I'm thankful we have President Biden in office right now. I'm fearful we have a repug house of Reps. I'm also fearful of the repugs we have in the Senate, but thankful we hold the Senate in the Majority... just wish we held a larger majority. I also don't want us to push Ukraine to the background in all of this, which is what Putin is hoping for. Just because Putin can't walk and chew gum at the same time, he thinks we can't either. And where Repugs are concerned, he's right. Thank god for Biden. I trust him in a time like this to do what is right by Israel, and to the United States.

The whole thing is just f'ed up as a whole. We (as a world people) knew that when we threw people off the land and created a state for Israel... which was at the time, the only thing that could be done. And it's been chaos ever since. Trump giving the entire Arab nation the information on the Iron Dome just blew through Israeli defenses (that's the unsubstantiated part I was talking about above). But what happened to the fabled Israeli military I've always heard so much about? I know this was a surprise attack. I know it happened during a feast day. But still... I thought their Intelligence was even better than our own. Their Military and Mossad was suppose to be the best in the world. I sit here dumbfounded and sick at heart for everyone concerned... so please, don't kick my butt too hard.

[scipan]

114. ....

Keep trying to figure it out sis/bro. If you do please let me know. This is a royal mess.

[onecaliberal]

144. Thank you for the very thoughtful comment. So heartbreaking.

[Deuxcents]

146. No butt kicking from me

[róisín_dubh]

188. Wow a thoughtful and nuanced response

Kudos, friend 😊

[redqueen]

190. There used to be more of those here

This place has changed a lot

[inthewind21]

201. Indeed

A VERY lot.

[róisín_dubh]

209. Yeah no kidding

I joined in 2004 when I moved from California to Oklahoma.
Thoughtful responses used to be the norm. Now, I don’t bother posting much because I can’t deal with the drama. I’ve spent near on 2 decades working in Mexico, for example. Someone on here who’s an ex-pat and lives in an ex-pat community will tell me how my experiences and expertise are wrong because their enclave is safe (unrelated, but a generic example), so therefore reports of violence are overblown.
I just can’t. That there are thinly veiled advocates for annihilating children makes my blood boil. The assumption that KIDS are responsible for an election nearly 2 decades ago makes me… well I can’t say what.
And I say this as the niece/cousin of Israeli citizens. Hamas’ actions were barbaric and self-defeating (or were they, cause not sure they care about Palestinians at large). But this is not the way.
Fuck

[totodeinhere]

213. No, Palistinians are dancing in the streets celebrating the murder of innocent Jewish children.

Several videos have documented this and it has been confirmed by the BBC.

[PufPuf23]

224. Kindness and empathy.

Pretty much agree with everything you typed.

Thank you.

[obamanut2012]

101. Many DUers do not care

Stuff posters are saying is just horrible.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

105. +1

Some of it is sickening.

[obamanut2012]

123. Yup

[Celerity]

223. Indeed, and some who I thought would be joining in have very pleasantly surprised me and are

actively pushing back against it.

They have deffo increased my faith (which was greatly in need of increase as of late, I fully admit) in DU by their actions.

[ancianita]

110. Don't think their Middle Eastern brothers will be there for them.

In past conflicts, they've been left on their own by the outlandishly richer Arab world.

If their brothers cared about them, they would have had a Palestinian state -- a two state solution -- by now, with land donated by Jordan, Egypt and even Saudi Arabia -- which could include even a pinch of land from Israel to fill it out.

Those countries have not given one thought -- not one -- to donating land to their Palestinian brothers.


The U.N. has temporary help on the way, but keeps emphasizing that Israel has to provide safe corridors for that help.

“It is essential that Israel implement additional measures to allow unhindered entry of all humanitarian assistance, including materials to implement the 2021 Humanitarian Response Plan and the Flash Appeal”.

Meanwhile, Hamas and other groups should cease launching incendiary devices, mortars and rockets, and end the militant build-up.

The cash flow crisis could affect the re-opening of school for half a million children in Gaza, and undermine humanitarian and early recovery programmes there.

“I appeal once again to all donors, including those from the Arab region, to sustain the funding levels of past years and advance disbursements of funds as much as possible to avoid a disruption of essential services and humanitarian aid”, she said.

https://news.un.org/en/story/2021/07/1096602

This isn't the first time that Gazans' brothers have preferred to donate survival aid through the U.N. than donate any actual land.

No amount of help from 'the great satan' zone has tempered these disunified sectarian conflicts.
Since post-Carter years, Palestinians have lived, suffered and died as proxies for these believer conflicts.

[Quixote1818]

124. K and R

[ForgedCrank]

139. While I

agree with what you said, I ask what other reaction to this atrocity is acceptable?
Answer: there is no acceptable response, only those of increasing violence.
Israel cannot let this one go. Nearly 1,000 people are already dead, most are innocent women and children, and that was on purpose. And it is a result of Israel being passive of late. There was not even a military goal here as far as I can see, it was a "kill all Jews" operation from beginning to end. I suspect those who have been kidnapped will be on tik-tok beheading videos soon enough.
It seems that there is no way to appease Hamas that doesn't include extermination of every Jew, particularly those in Israel. The Israelis got sloppy and lowered their guard, and this is the result. I wouldn't expect them to make that same mistake again. When it goes to this level, diversity takes a back seat, this is now survival mode for them, and part of that mode includes breaking out the rat poison.
Right now, they are preparing and loading up to go hunting, and every smart Palestinian with the means will flee as quickly as they can. The rest will be casualties of the actions of Hamas, no matter who drops the bombs.
I've had a hard time watching this all happen while trying to hold back tears. I cruse the people who started this up again.

[moonshinegnomie]

145. 1000 israelis is like 30k americans

look what we did after al queda killed 3k.
israel is going to wipe out hamas and i dont think they care about anyone in their way.

and that may be whats needed. the actual terrorist leaders are mostly detached from the results of their actions. its time they start paying the price. Iran for example has funded terrorists for decades. i hope israel takes out the leadership of iran.

and for those that say this will lead to a wider war i say sometime you have to make the tough call. take out the terrorists and their backers. all of them.

[ForgedCrank]

149. It's a

terrible situation for all involved. There is no way to sugar coat any of this.
But you are unfortunately right. Some only understand one thing. And it should go without saying that the planet would be a better place overall if Hamas ceased to exist. They have officially abandoned their rights to live in peace.
The sick part is there are millions of others involved in various other sects that are just as bad, if not worse than Hamas.

[inthewind21]

203. Take out the terrorists

and their backers along with 100's of thousands of innocent civilians. You mean like the US did after 9/11? Oh, wait....

[RockRaven]

152. They will be slaughtered by the hundreds and by the thousands and those doing the killing

will excuse it by calling them collateral damage and saying that they were warned to leave.

[womanofthehills]

175. I think most people know they are not allowed to leave

Trapped without food, water, electricity or fuel - a million kids under 19 yrs old. Kids born into this - kids who can never travel out of Gaza - trapped!

[uponit7771]

230. +1,

[onenote]

157. How many of those 2 million are sympathetic to Hamas? How big is Hamas?

From some of the posts, you would think that the population of Gaza is being held captive by Hamas. Well, how big is Hamas? Are posters saying a population of 2 million, a very great many of whom are armed, couldn't turn against Hamas?

Yes, Hamas uses civilians as human shields and conducts military actions from populated areas. But how certain can anyone be about how on board those civilians are with Hamas' tactics?

[BrightKnight]

178. More than half because They were elected. nt

[onenote]

182. 17 years ago. No elections since.

[EX500rider]

165. Why can't Eygpt send food & water across the border?

Israel is under no compulsion to supply someone they are at war with, Hamas can surrender if they don't like the outcome.

[pfitz59]

167. There is an outlet to Egypt

Let them use it. Oh yeah, Egypt doesn't want them either...

[BrightKnight]

176. Heart breaking but they did vote for the people launching the rockets.

Fk around and find out is a two part game and the find out part was the goal.

[redqueen]

185. No elections in 17 years. Almost half the country are children.

[BrightKnight]

218. If the international community organized an election last month Hamas would have won in a landslide.

If there was an easy political solution the world powers would have been all over it.

Hamas is beheading scores of babies and women. It has said many times that it is not seeking a political solution. They are currently attacking Israel. It is not useful to try to negotiate with them.

The only available solution is military and that is not ideal. I’m not convinced that is going to work but other people understand the situation much better than me.

Hamas wants as much collateral damage on TV as possible.

[onecaliberal]

186. Do you know when the last election was there?

No, they didn’t vote for that.

[inthewind21]

204. What

other wrong information do you have that you can repeatedly post?

[obamanut2012]

207. wrong

[uponit7771]

231. This is false

[Crunchy Frog]

238. I'll keep this post in mind the next time there's a thread about an 11 year old,

in a red state, who's being forced to give birth to her rapist's baby. The people in that state did vote for the Republicans who advocated those policies after all.

[Iggo]

198. War crimes, technically.

[róisín_dubh]

210. Technically and legally

It’s a goddamn fucking mess and nuance of any sort seems to have evaporated from this place.

[onecaliberal]

214. It's truly unfuckingbelievable.

[Iggo]

215. Ayup.

[redqueen]

240. Yep. It's seriously depressing nt

[totodeinhere]

211. What would you have Israel do in response to the murder of innocent Jewish children?

Hamas has its goal the complete destruction of Israel. Israel cannot reason or bargain with them. And yes, we are all concerned about the fate of the residents of Gaza, but I noticed that in your post you didn't even mention the wholesale murder of Jews carried out by Hamas.

[uponit7771]

232. I don't pay attention to ME till now, it seems like Palestians are acting normal towards the..

... people who are trying to kill them off by internment and text book human rights violations.

That doesn't mean Israelis should all die helplessly though.

Why hasn't Israel invested in movement constraint and forced labor?

Looks like constraint of movement and forced labor should get rid of Hamas and then allow for Palestine elections without Hamas in a year

[JI7]

233. If they are trying to kill them off why does their population continue to increase ?

[uponit7771]

234. Cause they're bad at it? (Link)

... and there are progressive voices in Israel preventing the whole scale killing of a race of people in the area

The below seems lopsided at best, haven't seen a chart that's 50% better

[treestar]

248. an eye for an eye is what that is

I guess there is no other solution? No one can think of anything?

somehow Northern Ireland was made to stop, maybe there's an answer there.

[totodeinhere]

251. I wish there were another solution, but how can there be when Hamas has in its

charter the goal of the total destruction of Israel. How can Israel reason with them under those circumstances?

[treestar]

254. Does Hamas have that ability?

Though we tried to go after Al Qaeda as best we could, perhaps they were easier to pinpoint.

Yet a few drone strikes did take out civilians and we go a lot of flak for it. Obama still gets called a warmonger over it.

Hamas sound vague, do we know any leaders - like bin Laden, that can be targeted?

At one time, it was possible to deal with Arafat - the Camp David Accords, etc. But the extremists killed Sadat, for daring to try to make peace. I have a friend who can recall when Gazans could travel across Israel to visit West Bank relatives. Seems to have gotten worse and worse.

[totodeinhere]

258. I don't know if Hamas actually has that ability but I am afraid that Hamas

will keep trying as long as it is able to.

[pfitz59]

217. Collateral damage

collective punishment. I doubt 'the people' of Gaza will just hand over their heroes.

[redqueen]

241. "I doubt 'the people' of Gaza will just hand over their heroes."

Why did you put 'the people' in scare quotes?

[ripcord]

221. President Biden understands the problem

That's why he sent a carrier group and not the Red Cross to support Israel.

[Kennah]

228. Syria and Hezbollah hits Israel and it's yet another Arab-Israeli war

If this spirals far enough, Israel uses nukes, the lines stabilize within a few kilometers of where they are today, and millions of new cases of leukemia and other related illnesses globally.

That's the positive outcome.

[bigtree]

239. what happens to half the population which are children?

...1 million kids, 40% of them under the age of 15.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/09/gaza-strip-israel-hamas-explained/

[Hekate]

266. Egypt et al. will welcome them with open arms, as brothers...