Hamas beheaded children -- President Biden

[brooklynite]

Link to tweet

[Just_Vote_Dem]

1. I stand with President Biden n/t

[Calculating]

2. I stand with Israel and Biden

Whatever it takes to stomp Hamas and the terrorists out.

[GP6971]

63. Hmmmm...

[inthewind21]

94. Well

the US was working on it for what the most recent 20 years and many times before that? Did we stomp out terrorists?

[Alexander Of Assyria]

3. Atrocious as vaporizing children by the dozens in the dark with bombs from above.

It’s all atrocity, both/all/every side…from Ukraine to Afghanistan those in power dine while innocents die…. Atrocity is equal.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

4. You really seem focused on minimizing the horrors that Hamas afflicted

I wonder why...

[Just_Vote_Dem]

5. I can't believe some of these posts n/t

[BannonsLiver]

12. One gets the feeling some would be both siding WW2.

[maxsolomon]

10. A of A hasn't changed much

if you've engaged him on Ukraine war topics.

Beheading children is an atrocity intended to shock, to horrify, to overwhelm emotions. It is not intended to be equivalent to children killed by missile strikes or bombs. It's intended to be worse, to demonstrate that barbarism will be met with greater barbarism, that Hamas' will is greater than that of Israel.

I'd quote Col. Kurtz in Apocalypse Now about horrors, but it isn't appropriate today.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

21. The horrors are maximal on all people not politicians or soldiers or terrorists, is the point being

attacked? Not sure what to make of that. Is it more horrific depending on your nationality?

[Dorian Gray]

42. I self deleted

my last comment bc I made it in anger, and I don't want to communicate that way.

But as objectively as I can, without anger, it feels like you're "BUT ALL LIVES MATTER"ing this horror show.

[cab67]

59. some of us really are struggling to channelize our emotions.

I, for one, fully understand that the suffering of Palestinian children in Gaza is on Hamas' hands. And the willingness of Hamas to kill Israeli children is a ghastly abomination.

But regardless of their circumstances, they're children. Those killed in this conflict should be mourned. This is as true of a Palestinian Arab child killed in an IDF air strike as for an Israeli child slaughtered by Hamas terrorists. None of these children chose to live in these circumstances.

Assigning blame for the suffering is independent of understanding that suffering is happening. I want to see Hamas wiped out, and I know Hamas uses civilians as human shields, but I still feel great sorrow for the innocent Palestinian Arab civilians who will die in the necessary cause of ending Hamas.

Not sure if that makes any sense, but it's the best I can do to wrestle with the enormous humanitarian crisis this conflict is creating. Assigning blame and conducting a military solution are one thing, and it would be irrational to expect Israel to handle this with kids' gloves; knowing that people who just want to live their lives in peace will suffer and die is another.

[The Magistrate]

65. Well Said

[North Shore Chicago]

24. I didn't see that

[Torchlight]

7. You previously asked if it's time for Ukraine to negotiate.

I'd wondered your tack on this one, and now wonder no more.

[Hekate]

14. I remember that, too. I kept asking which part of the US we should be willing to cede if overrun...

… by Putin or Xi. Never got an answer.

[DemocraticPatriot]

34. Texas and Florida!

(Sorry Texas and Florida Democrats, but I couldn't help myself... I know you're trying!)

[Paladin]

69. Apology NOT accepted. (nt)

[Cha]

20. Omg! AUFKM?!

[Torchlight]

22. Good faith discussions can become more difficult

when our journal pages (publicly available to all site members) remembers our positions and concerns better than we do.

[sarisataka]

8. Least surprising post of the day

Quite the company you keep

[Hekate]

9. As far as I know, the Israelis tell people to get out and when. So just stop this campaign, please.

It is all unendurably horrible, but both sides are not the same.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. What would you have the people of Ukraine do?

[Cha]

18. No "both sides ". Please Stop minimizing

The fucking HAMAS MF MONSTERS

[JohnSJ]

25. The OP is specifically referring to the targeted killings and beheading of children by Hamas,

confirmed by President Biden.

Your false equivalency is wrong. This was an intentional targeted killing of children.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

27. Untargeted killings leave folks 100% as dead 100% of the time.

[JohnSJ]

29. One is a targeted intention to kill children, and it seems you can't comprehend that difference.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

92. Is an untarget dead child any less deader? Like as in how the carpet bombing has vaporized hundreds?

[Dorian Gray]

44. Hmmm

So do accidental deaths. They're tragic. But it's not the same horror. And you know that, otherwise you wouldn't be fighting so hard to make the point.

[TomSlick]

50. International law and common sense make a distinction

between the intentional murder of civilians and the death of civilians as collateral damage in attacks on military targets. The distinction is important when a force like Hamas places military targets in civilian areas.

Beheading children has only one purpose, to instill terror. The lack of basic humanity is understood only if Hamas fighters to do not see Israelis as human.

Israel has mistreated the Palestinians but nothing can justify the senseless brutality intentionally undertaken by Hamas. Hamas claims to act in the name of the Palestinians. If the people of Gaza do not agree that Hamas acts for them, they can best defend themselves by ousting Hamas. There are weapons laying around. The people of Gaza should use them against Hamas.

Jefferson was nearly right. Governments do not necessarily exist with the consent of the governed but the governed must acquiesce.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

70. The horror should be met with more horror!?...People, watching too many horror movies lately!

[ripcord]

90. So all wise one give us a solution that includes Israel not having to live under the threat of Hamas

[Alexander Of Assyria]

91. Look up Two State solution,,,it's all there in excruciating acre by acre detail! Bibi won't budge.

I didn’t write it though.

[inthewind21]

95. If you think

Hamas is EVER just going away, you're delusional. Every single member of Hamas in Gaza can be killed today by Israeli soldiers, bombs or starvation, take your pick. There are a thousand more waiting to take their place. And more being created as I type. It amazes me that Americans aren't crystal clear on how that works after 20 years of war, which by the way, DID NOT "wipe out" terrorist organizations.

[TomSlick]

93. I never have been a fan of horror movies.

I am, however, a retired Army Judge Advocate trained in the Law of War. It is a false equivalency to compare the intentional killing of civilians by Hamas and the death of civilians in Gaza as collateral damage in Israeli attacks on military targets.

The Hamas attack on Israel was primarily an intentional attack on civilians for no other reason than to kill civilians. Every Hamas member that engaged in intentionally killing civilians, and every Hamas leader that ordered or acquiesced in intentionally killing civilians, is a war criminal. War crimes cannot be justified.

[Dave says]

30. Both, if I can use a quaint term, are evil

But on whose ledger does the evil reside?

Every death in WWII was evil. Killing another human being is evil. But in WWII it was a necessary evil by the Allies to rid the world of the scourge of the Third Reich. Each German soldier’s death compounded the sins of Hitler. This is a similar situation. Each death in Gaza compounds the sins of Hamas.

I grant you one could go back years and the ledgers, overweighted with death, blur. But right now, this is all on Hamas.

(At least, that’s one rationalization I tell myself to help me sleep at night.)

[Chautauquas]

86. +1

What Hamas did is horrific but so is killing Palestinian kids with airstrikes.

[Maru Kitteh]

6. I stand with Biden, Ukraine, Israel and democracy.

[moonshinegnomie]

11. Am Yisrael Chai

[emulatorloo]

13. Bookmarking, appreciate you posting n/t

[Cha]

16. Grateful Pres Biden is

Not trying to cover up these Butchers Atrocities like some wanted

[inthewind21]

96. Except

the WH walked it back.

[Cha]

98. Except there are fucking photos now and Pres Biden is

Not trying to whitewash this Shit Bloodthirst of HAMAS

[honest.abe]

17. Yes this is the clear and obvious truth.

Thank you President Biden.

[Fiendish Thingy]

19. Does this evidence change anything?

I mean, it’s already been established that Hamas commits terrorist acts; this is yet another example.

Does the beheading of infants alter the steps Israel should take to defend their country and neutralize Hamas as a threat?

Should reason and resolve prevail to achieve those goals, or should emotion and a lust for vengeance guide the response?

Do the rules still apply?

[Alexander Of Assyria]

23. If governing folk planning genocide... then you need public to support the genocide...how?

Have folks support pure revenge and retaliation…how?…move on from self defence to….kill anything that moves in the darkness and starvation of Gaza…

An atrocity for an atrocity…as the Bible directs…two wrongs make a right…only logical..

[Hekate]

26. Just to be perfectly clear, Alexander of Assyria, you are flatly stating that Israel plans genocide

If I have that interpretation of your words wrong, do clarify what you mean.

[The Magistrate]

61. It Is An Odd Thing To Observe, Ma'am

People are confronted by the fact that grotesque atrocity has been committed by the armed forces of a cause they support. As you see above, the reaction is not to face up to what was done, but rather to imagine some future horror, to be committed by the party they oppose and are accustomed to denounce, and cry up this phantom which is/will be so much worse than merely a few hundred people subjected to murderous torment. Being untethered by reality, these imagined atrocities soon to be committed can swell to grand proportions. Yesterday, Israel was going to murder hundreds of thousands of Palestinian children; apparently today, Israel will kill some two millions in its genocidal rage against people who have a right to resist by any means necessary....

[Hekate]

66. (sigh) It's been crazy and disheartening around here. Thank you, Sir...

and also

[Dorian Gray]

47. So, you're saying

That it's a conspiracy to say they did the worst possible butchering imaginable in order to commit a genocide on the Palestinians? That's what you're going with?

I just want to make sure I understand you correctly. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

[honest.abe]

32. It should for those who are still claiming bothsidesism.

[Fiendish Thingy]

37. What do you mean?

I tend not to see things in black and white, but in multiple shades of gray.

My questions were specifically about whether Israel should alter their response based on this information - should reason and resolve prevail, or should emotion and vengeance guide them?

[honest.abe]

39. It means this kind of evil is way beyond anything Israel has done.

I don't know how Israel should respond. That's a tough one. It might be a mistake being too extreme and it might be a mistake being too soft.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

80. It's faked...now how would you and Israel and America respond to the hate fomented...by fake?

[honest.abe]

81. Doesnt change anything. There is enough verified horrific evil without the baby beheadings.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

85. Doesn't change anything...now that the propaganda value has evaporated...true!

Except there are lot of babies in Gaza being carpet bombed and not so much beheaded as behead and dismembered as they sleep in the dark…sympathies to all murdered babies!?

[honest.abe]

87. No doubt Israel's response is going to be excessive and extreme and innocents will be killed.

Its also wrong.

[Elessar Zappa]

33. Biden, of course, isn't arguing that the issue should be dealt with emotionally.

He’s just confirming that the atrocities happened, probably because some on the left say it’s disinformation.

[Fiendish Thingy]

38. Well there is probably more disinformation than accurate information at this point

So having Biden, a trusted source, provide clarity is a good thing IMO.

[ShazzieB]

52. Yes.

He wouldn't say this if he hadn't seen verified evidence that it's true.

Anyone still trying to claim this didn't really happen needs to stfu.

EDIT: Further down thread, there is talk questioning whether Biden actually saw the pictures with his own eyes. I have a hard time believing Biden would talk this way if he hadn't seen some kind of verified evidence. That is all.

[electric_blue68]

64. Biden at least from my pov usually tends towards caution so I agree that he had to have had...

some serious verified evidence.
(yikes)

[brooklynite]

48. Let us know how to apply "reason and resolve"

Hamas killed civilians violently and coldly.

Hamas is back inside Gaza with hostages.

Hamas will in all likelihood strike Israel again, given the opportunity.

How does Israel rescue the hostages and defuse the Hamas threat?

[Fiendish Thingy]

54. I'm no expert at logistics

I just know that using reason and resolve rather than emotion and vengeance as guiding forces usually leads to better outcomes in the long run.

[brooklynite]

55. Have you suggested Ukraine apply "reason and resolve" as opposed to defending its territory?

[Fiendish Thingy]

57. I think you misunderstand me

One can use reason and resolve in conducting warfare and defending one’s country through the use of military force.

[Xolodno]

28. Another reason why Hamas needs to be eliminated.

...and the Palestinian Authority allowed to retake Gaza. When they were running things they had beach side casino's and hotels that Israeli's would frequent. Providing the government with legitimate funding.

Hamas lied through their teeth to be elected (and did the opposite of what they promised), then violently overthrew the PA in Gaza (tried to do in the West Bank but were soundly defeated). closed the casino's and embarked on policies that made the average Gaza resident hellish. All the while indoctrinating youth that Israel was the source of their problems and not them.

And Bibi enabled all of it. When Hamas kidnapped a soldier or two, launched some rockets, etc. That psychopath was comfortable with it. It gave him the excuse that he didn't have a partner for the two state solution as Hamas controlled Gaza and made damn sure the PA could never retake it. He was so full of hubris, he moved military units watching Gaza to the West Bank to "protect" settlers in illegal settlements.

Sissi, Abbas, Hussien, etc. were all warning him what he was doing would come back to bite him in the ass. Now its happened and innocent people are losing their lives because he craved power. Dirt bag didn't even express much remorse at Rabin's funeral. None of that excuses what Hamas did, but need to realize, its a symptom and not the disease. It will happen again until political will and recognizing reality finally sets in.

[onecaliberal]

58. On point. Thank you.

[Progressive dog]

31. I stand with Israel and President Biden

Hamas is a terrorist organization with only one goal, the murder of all Jews. This is not an organization that can be negotiated with or appeased. Unfortunately the parents of Gaza apparently care so little for their children that they have allowed them to be used as shields by Hamas for over a decade.
Every nation has the right and responsibility to defend it's people from barbarians.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

35. So did Biden see photos or not?

Link to tweet

Barak Ravid
A senior U.S. official told me that in his comments the President was referring to Israeli public reports

[Hekate]

36. I listened to what he said, & that is the impression I got. Unlike Trump, Biden does not lie to us.

Part of terrorist tactics is that those they wish to terrorize should see what has been done by them.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

43. The White House is walking it back.

[Hekate]

46. We shall see

[Alexander Of Assyria]

73. Facts will come out to refute the allegations....and everyone will forget they believed it.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

72. Interesting. How so? No evidence other than cleverly doctored social media posts?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

74. Thread here:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218354522

[Alexander Of Assyria]

79. Thank you...switching to a True Thread...

[revmclaren]

41. I support President Biden and Israel.

[BigDemVoter]

45. I don't even want to contemplate this. . . .

I was hoping it was hype but no. How could they?

[Kire]

68. Check your sources.

Always.

[BigDemVoter]

99. I haven't seen it verified anywhere yet.

I tried to look up a source who could verify this, but I couldn't. All I saw was something reporting on what someone else had stated. I don't know what to believe, but I hope this isn't true. Of course there are certainly other terrible things that can be done, especially during conflict, but inflicting cruelty on children is always beyond the pale.

[NowISeetheLight]

49. Reality

You know Israel has made a few mis-steps in its lifetime. Every nation has. Nothing justified what Hamas did. They’ve been in power in Gaza for 17 years. They’ve had aid from the EU. Imagine if they had focused on the life of the Palestinians instead of focusing on hate. Would the blockade Israel olaced have been necessary without the constant threat of rockets and suicidal bombers and border events?

Hamas had 17 years from the time Israel withdrew troops and settlements. They could’ve become part of an international community. Instead they chose hate, terror, violence. Imagine if they had focused their energies after winning that election on the Palestinian people instead of hate.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

77. Imagine lying about dead babies to foment rabid hate...don't have to imagine...happening in real time!

[BigmanPigman]

53. This is why parents are being told to turn off Tik Tok,

Instagram, X, etc in Israel and in US communities. Hamas said they will show hostages begging for their lives, being tortured and executed and they mean it. Schools and governments are warning the adults to turn off the apps so the propaganda will not scare them.

[Bear Creek]

60. This Headline needs to right beside that one

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/08/28/west-bank-spike-israeli-killings-palestinian-children

Human rights groups, including Amnesty International, have accused Israel of imposing apartheid on Palestinians. Biden’s administration needs to hold Netanyahu government accountable for the aggression against Palestinians and expanding settlements in the occupied west bank. Including 3.8 billion in annual aid to Israel.

In March Israeli minister claimed there’s “no such thing” as a Palestinian people. Most repressive government yet. Overhaul of the judiciary. Coalition government has control over who becomes a justice or a judge. This came a day after Israeli and Palestinian delegation met in Egypt. Mediated by Egypt, Jordanian and U.S. officials pledged to take steps to reduce tensions. Bezalel Smotrich delivered a speech in Paris. He said “There is no such thing as a Palestinian nation. There is no Palestinian history. There is no Palestinian language,” He had a map of Israel that showed it including West Bank, Gaza and Jordan.

So as everyone has emotional moral high ground. Remember that there is another side to the story. Almost every war since the Gulf has stories about murdered babies and every other time the story is fake. If it’s not fake then everyone should be just as upset of the fact this year 2023 Israel was on record for the killings of Palestinian children. Whose death toll is higher. The soldiers killing Palestinian children should be punished and hamas killing babies should be punished.

Dealing with an extreme right wing government that is doing what we as democrats are trying to stop from happening here. Controlling the courts and controlling the votes. Making sure that minorities are represented and that hate, discrimination and violence are not normalized.
Stop the 3.8 billion to Israel to use for illegal settlements and maintaining apartheid, we need it here to have universal healthcare and pay for our children’s college.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

78. Palestinian babies are also babies loved by their parents??? Who knew this!

[Kire]

67. Source of dubious 'beheaded babies' claim is Israeli settler leader who incited riots to 'wipe out'

https://thegrayzone.com/2023/10/11/beheaded-israeli-babies-settler-wipe-out-palestinian/

[Alexander Of Assyria]

75. Who needs reliable sources! There's much hate to be had! That made up story helped a lot!

[obamanut2012]

71. Biden did not see proof, The White House walked this back

US officials have not seen direct evidence of this specific crime.

I am sure I will now, again, be called names for some reason for clarifying this, but whatever.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

76. Bravely done...but once a big lie is accepted and used to hate..false hate...won't be mentioned again.

[obamanut2012]

82. I know, it is maddening

[Alexander Of Assyria]

84. Not mad, factual insistence doesn't allow for madness!

[Autumn]

83. I well remember when babies were taken out of incubators and murdered.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

88. Yellow cake, aluminum tubes and uranium shipments...some remember...some choose to forget...

some just don’t know or connect the dots.

[SYFROYH]

89. Well, I'm feeling stupid for believing Joe on this issue.

When I heard the allegations of beheaded children, I noted that it may or may not be true.

But when I saw Joe confirm it, I thought it must be true.

Sigh.

[Mariana]

97. To be fair, Joe didn't actually say that he saw pictures.

"I never thought I would see" doesn't equal "I have seen". But it's very easy to understand why so many people thought that's what he meant. Terrible choice of words on his part.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

100. When I, and a few others, hears the propaganda it was recognized as propaganda.

Thing called…where’s the evidence?? Lot of bun, no beef!

Stands as cautionary warning for all! Embrace evidence, not thin air allegations! It’s easier than instant rage actually, all give it a try!