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Egypt rejects humanitarian civilian corridor for Gaza civilians (Original Post) Marius25 Oct 2023 OP
Corridor to where, safe passage to where? No destination is identified in that article. RockRaven Oct 2023 #1
Huh? It literally means opening the Rafah gate between Gaza and Egypt. Marius25 Oct 2023 #2
What's the *destination*? Where are they refugees supposed to go and live? RockRaven Oct 2023 #5
Obviously the plan was to have Egypt take in refugees. Marius25 Oct 2023 #8
Well, if and when Israel moves into Gaza, the people there become the moral and legal RockRaven Oct 2023 #11
I saw yesterday that Israel was bombing the corridor, they can't leave that way TomDaisy Oct 2023 #14
Not a surprise really Happy Hoosier Oct 2023 #3
That's an unfortunate dilemma for Palestinians as well. Marius25 Oct 2023 #4
As I understand it... Happy Hoosier Oct 2023 #9
Instability is certainly one way to put it. Marius25 Oct 2023 #10
Israel/Jordan was the original Two State Solution. What's Jordan's price to take back the West Bank? Marcuse Oct 2023 #18
This Is Not Quite So, Sir The Magistrate Oct 2023 #23
Why won't they? DemocraticPatriot Oct 2023 #19
Originally, Sir, This Owed To Circumstances After The Armistice in '49 The Magistrate Oct 2023 #28
Egypt edhopper Oct 2023 #6
2 million or so (some will be killed during battle) IF Gaza is literally flattened to the ground, Celerity Oct 2023 #30
Uh, correct me, doesn't it mean not supporting Hamas? (Yeah, I know what "humanitarian" means) UTUSN Oct 2023 #7
Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood are allies. Xolodno Oct 2023 #12
You should check out Merida if you end up in MX. Ace Rothstein Oct 2023 #25
"a means of ejecting the population permanently and liquidating Palestine" TomDaisy Oct 2023 #13
This source says that Israel is bombing the Rafah corridor TomDaisy Oct 2023 #15
That's Horrible! And, wasn't it Eygpt Cha Oct 2023 #16
See Post 3. Happy Hoosier Oct 2023 #20
TY.. I saw that after I Cha Oct 2023 #21
Maybe the U.N. moondust Oct 2023 #17
Egypt is on the verge of financial collapse. Tomconroy Oct 2023 #22
But the children ? JI7 Oct 2023 #26
The release of the hostages would help their situation. Tomconroy Oct 2023 #27
Not surprised eissa Oct 2023 #24
sigh Celerity Oct 2023 #29

RockRaven

(15,576 posts)
1. Corridor to where, safe passage to where? No destination is identified in that article.
Wed Oct 11, 2023, 10:59 PM
Oct 2023

If one doesn't identify a point B, fussing over the path from A to B not existing is either pointless or dishonest.

RockRaven

(15,576 posts)
5. What's the *destination*? Where are they refugees supposed to go and live?
Wed Oct 11, 2023, 11:13 PM
Oct 2023

"Egypt" isn't a destination, unless the Egyptian government says so. Even the Israeli spokesperson quoted in the article says as much.

Again, where exactly are the refugees supposedly going to, which the non-opening of the purported corridor is preventing?

If one wants to say Egypt is wrong to not take refugees, they could and should say so. But saying the issue is the pathway being blocked when no takers exist at the end of the pathway just doesn't wash.

RockRaven

(15,576 posts)
11. Well, if and when Israel moves into Gaza, the people there become the moral and legal
Wed Oct 11, 2023, 11:24 PM
Oct 2023

responsibility of Israel. That has always been the case, and has always affected Israel's Gaza strategy. Anyone expecting Egypt to jump for joy at the chance to take over the burden of millions of refugees is rather myopic.

The "plan" for Egypt to take refugees is a very bad one before such time as Egypt agrees to it. Have they agreed? No...

Maybe there should have been some planning to account for that, or some persuasion -- in the many decades which have been available for such -- instead of waiting until there was a crisis, and then claiming that they are the bad guy for not accommodating others' demands.

 

TomDaisy

(2,120 posts)
14. I saw yesterday that Israel was bombing the corridor, they can't leave that way
Wed Oct 11, 2023, 11:34 PM
Oct 2023

even if they tried.

Happy Hoosier

(7,674 posts)
3. Not a surprise really
Wed Oct 11, 2023, 11:07 PM
Oct 2023

They don’t want more than a million refugees to be their responsibility. Not to mention they probably don’t want any part of Hamas setting up camp in Egypt.

 

Marius25

(3,213 posts)
4. That's an unfortunate dilemma for Palestinians as well.
Wed Oct 11, 2023, 11:09 PM
Oct 2023

It's a touchy subject here, but I recommend people read up on relations in that region to understand why Arab countries won't help Palestinians.

Happy Hoosier

(7,674 posts)
9. As I understand it...
Wed Oct 11, 2023, 11:17 PM
Oct 2023

There has been reluctance for Arab nations to accept Palestinian refugees because they will become permanent residents and possibly introduce political instability. Add to this the idea that it took pressure off Israel by essentially removing pressure to accommodate Palestinians within Israel (the so-called “right of return”). Countries like Jordan and Egypt which are formally at peace with Israel are probably less concerned about the de facto acknowledgment of Israel’s right to exist (they’ve already done that), and far more concerned about introducing political instability.

 

Marius25

(3,213 posts)
10. Instability is certainly one way to put it.
Wed Oct 11, 2023, 11:20 PM
Oct 2023

Look up Black September in Jordan and the Lebanese Civil War. Both were caused by Palestinian militant groups and led to the near destruction of both countries.

So even though it wasn't civilians responsible, Arab countries aren't willing to risk those types of events again.

Marcuse

(7,681 posts)
18. Israel/Jordan was the original Two State Solution. What's Jordan's price to take back the West Bank?
Wed Oct 11, 2023, 11:55 PM
Oct 2023

The Magistrate

(95,723 posts)
23. This Is Not Quite So, Sir
Thu Oct 12, 2023, 01:48 AM
Oct 2023

England carved Trans-Jordan out of the Palestine Mandate to provide employment for one son of the Hashemite family which they had backed against the Turks in the Great War, after they were driven from Arabia by Ibn Saud and his Wahhabi soldiery. It was not a question of settling things as Arabs east of the river, Jews west if it.

Leaving aside the Peel Commission, the first 'two state solution' was the UN Partition in 1947. It was, all things considered, a considerably better deal for the Arabs of Palestine than anything on subsequent offer, and it would be hard to argue that their rejection of it was not a calamitous mistake.

 

DemocraticPatriot

(5,410 posts)
19. Why won't they?
Thu Oct 12, 2023, 12:11 AM
Oct 2023

You claim to know, so give us your opinion, please...


I am probably as close to a 'neutral' in this whole discussion as you have run into, and I ask sincerely.

I don't have 2000 years to research for the answer...


The Magistrate

(95,723 posts)
28. Originally, Sir, This Owed To Circumstances After The Armistice in '49
Thu Oct 12, 2023, 03:07 AM
Oct 2023

The position of the Arab League, and the leadership of Arab Palestine, was that Jewish rule over any part of Palestine could not be borne. Israel's victory, sealed by the '49 Armistice, was viewed by all Arab parties as only temporary, and policy was guided by the idea the refugee population would soon be returned in triumph to their land once the Jews were subdued. So assimilation into the populace of a host country seemed neither necessary nor good politics, as it would imply acceptance Jews ruled .
once Arab land.

In the area now referred to as the West Bank, matters were a bit more complicated. Abdullah, the Hashemite ruler of Trans-Jordan despised the Palestinian leader, the Grand Mufti al'Husseini, and was of the opinion his lands ought to include either a port somewhere, or Jerusalem. In '48, Abdullah's forces, British trained and partly British officered, invaded across the river, reaching Jerusalem before the fighting concluded. The Armistice left him in occupation of the West Bank, which held not just its own population, but many refugees from what was now Israeli territory. Abdullah annexed his winnings, which remained under Jordanian control. This was not recognized by most countries, and citizenship in Jordan was not extended to the people there. Egypt did roughly the same with Gaza, as did Lebanon and Syria. The refugees from Palestine were held in a sort of limbo, waiting for Israel's defeat, when they could return.

After Jordan was badly beaten in the '67 war, it's military power was virtually destroyed, and there was a new influx of refugees to Jordan. These began to organize politically and militarily, as the PLO and Fatah, and became a power in Jordan in their own right, one with little respect for Jordanian authority. Once Jordan had rebuilt its armed forces, these attacked the PLO/Fatah, driving them out and into Lebanon, a state also so weak it could not exert authority over these groups. By this time, the thing had gelled: the original wave of refugees had been in camps for a generation, they would not be able to return to lands inn Israel, and were an uncomfortable population to host.

I assure you this account is brutally compressed, and omits much, but covers what I think are the main points bearing on your question.

Celerity

(45,353 posts)
30. 2 million or so (some will be killed during battle) IF Gaza is literally flattened to the ground,
Thu Oct 12, 2023, 04:42 AM
Oct 2023

completely cleansed, and then taken over as 100% Israeli land.

Xolodno

(6,520 posts)
12. Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood are allies.
Wed Oct 11, 2023, 11:25 PM
Oct 2023

They don't want them on their territory just after they succeeded in, for the most part, putting them down after a few decades. I go to visit Egypt next month and the tour company is bombarding me that they will make sure everything is safe, but should things spill over they will refund me. Told my wife, if that happens then were just going to go back to Cancun and probably do some property shopping. Nothing should happen there, right? Right? RIGHT?

 

TomDaisy

(2,120 posts)
15. This source says that Israel is bombing the Rafah corridor
Wed Oct 11, 2023, 11:38 PM
Oct 2023




Israeli occupation forces bomb the only way out of Gaza.

After Netanyahu told Palestinians to leave for Gaza, he proceeded to bomb the Rafah crossing into Egypt.

Cha

(300,720 posts)
16. That's Horrible! And, wasn't it Eygpt
Wed Oct 11, 2023, 11:49 PM
Oct 2023

that said they told Israel about this.. So why aren't they Helping Palestinians.?

Happy Hoosier

(7,674 posts)
20. See Post 3.
Thu Oct 12, 2023, 12:12 AM
Oct 2023

In short… they don’t wNt a million refugees and Hamas settin up operations in Egypt.

 

Tomconroy

(7,611 posts)
22. Egypt is on the verge of financial collapse.
Thu Oct 12, 2023, 01:36 AM
Oct 2023

They cannot afford nor do they want Palestinian refugees.

 

Tomconroy

(7,611 posts)
27. The release of the hostages would help their situation.
Thu Oct 12, 2023, 02:32 AM
Oct 2023

Perhaps it would be useful to advocate for that.
As far as I can tell Israel's precision bombing campaign is avoiding a lot of collateral damage.

eissa

(4,238 posts)
24. Not surprised
Thu Oct 12, 2023, 02:01 AM
Oct 2023

Palestinian refugees have caused havoc in both Lebanon and Jordan. Most Arab governments have been reluctant to take in many refugees from conflict zones in the region. It's why so many end up in boats in the Mediterranean trying to get to Europe.

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