Pelosi's Foolishness on Gaza Protesters

[BeyondGeography]

By Serge Schmemann
NYT Editorial Board Member

Nancy Pelosi’s call for the F.B.I. to investigate whether pro-Palestinian protesters have links to Russian money was remarkably foolish. Her best move now would be to stop trying to explain and to acknowledge she was wrong.

…Nobody has seriously suggested that Russia is behind the protests, and Pelosi presented no evidence. Her spokesperson subsequently referred to a social-media post by Ian Bremmer, a well-respected political scientist, to the effect that the Gaza war and related chaos benefit Putin. I emailed Bremmer, and he expanded the thought in response: “The Middle East war took Putin’s Ukraine invasion off the headlines and made it a lower policy priority for the Americans. Not to mention he benefits from chaos in the region and higher oil prices. As global leaders go, Russia’s president is among those most interested in seeing the war continue.”

That’s a perfectly reasonable analysis, one I share. Of course Putin is happy with the chaos. But it’s quite a leap to suggest that he’s behind it or to smear the thousands of Americans who earnestly believe that the carnage in Gaza — where 26,000 people have been killed, most of the population displaced and vast areas devastated — should be stopped. Many Israelis are also demanding that their government try to negotiate a cease-fire to free the remaining Israeli hostages.

To conflate their sentiments with Russian meddling or the Ukraine war is not only uncalled-for and wrong, but also damaging to President Biden. Many of the protesters Pelosi tarnished are Democrats, and many Democrats are already unhappy with the administration’s stance on the war. This can only alienate them further.

Gift link https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/01/24/opinion/thepoint/pelosi-gaza-protesters-russia?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&sgrp=c-cb

[Tumbulu]

1. It was my very first thought, so drop it on the "nobody" part

Of course Putin is behind some of them.

Not all, or perhaps even not most. But I see the all the obvious tactics.

And I am an ordinary human. I do not know the what the intelligence community has shared.

[NoRethugFriends]

2. Serge Schmemann NYT Editorial Board Member is clueless or a tool

The NYT is pathetic. The only thing they are good for now is their games

[The Magistrate]

3. Ah, 'The Times', Sir: They Don't Even Read their Own Coverage....

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218637980

[revmclaren]

5. Great minds....

Posted the exact same link.

[Cha]

14. Thanks for the link.. Fuck Off Code Pink

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[revmclaren]

4. Maybe because some protest groups ARE controlled by

individuals with ulterior motives.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218637980

This gives some reason and credence to her statement although I know many will disagree.

[SoFlaBro]

34. The goddamn editorial board of NYT doesn't read the rest of their goddamn paper. This article lays the shit out.

Free article link:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/05/world/europe/neville-roy-singham-china-propaganda.html?unlocked_article_code=1.Rk0.x2VK.svIGiZlul3fO&bgrp=t&smid=url-share

[Xolodno]

6. Its easy to dismiss protesters as being funded by Russia.

And many here will buy it without proof. But until we see Russian bank checks, which is impossible due to sanctions, rubles in their wallet. etc. we got nothing. And even IF and its a big IF the organizers were somehow under financial support of Moscow, the rest are unlikely. There is an undercurrent of anger on this issue. Ignore or dismiss it, we will pay for it at the voting booth.

[revmclaren]

8. See my post #4

[BootinUp]

7. There is a huge anti-Israel/anti-U.S. propaganda effort

coming from the worst foreign actors. No doubts there.

[Cha]

20. Rec TY

Obvious.

[Happy Hoosier]

47. Plenty of it being promoted right here on DU. NT

[lapfog_1]

9. possibly the author might remember the TEA party?

They showed up at various congressional events to protest taxes and other right wing grievances. They have morphed into the MAGAts. Curiously they would arrive at the "congress at your corner" event in buses... convoys of rented buses. with all their "don't tread on me" flags and other buttons and banners, many of which were professionally printed. We saw the ones they hand made because of the obvious mis-spellings and grammatical errors so those became internet memes. ( Get a brain Morans )

Most of them were well intended "patriotic" people... but the money came from right wing billionaires.

Gabby Giffords was shot and nearly killed at such an event. I should know... I was at the previous one and the guy next to me had a pistol in his pocket... which fell out as he got up from his seat to meet the Congress Person. I was lucky the safety was on.

The FBI should have been investing the funding of these protests.

The Gaza - Israeli war is a similar situation. Hundreds and thousands of well meaning patriotic left leaning Americans are showing up to protest at Jewish owned businesses and Senators and Congress persons homes ( The anti Semites should be shameful for us on the left, we are better than that). The ones with the bullhorns at many of these protests are out and out supporters of the terrorists in Hamas... terrorists, rapists, murderers. I'd like to think the majority are there because the Palestinians ARE oppressed. that Gaza IS essentially an open air prison. I really hope that is the case. But when they chant "from the River to the Sea, Palestine will be free", it really makes me wonder.

And I am absolutely certain that the Oct 7th attack was supported and timed by Putin and Iran. Putin wants to create chaos and divide America. The MAGA party ( led by Putin loving Trump ) is doing Putin's bidding about funding Ukraine. And I think the Hamas attack was perfectly timed to create division within the Democratic Party on this war in Gaza, just before an election. And the Hamas supporting leaders of the protests by mostly young people who have seen the injustice in Gaza and Palestine, and brought up on the "colonizers versus natives" narrative ( perhaps either NOT recognizing that their very existence is due to those colonizers a few hundred years ago and that THEIR privilege of a college education was due to them BEING colonizers themselves... their own white (or even black and brown ) GUILT is making them protest the Jews as colonizers of the middle east... without ever actually considering that the Jews were forced to leave the middle east a thousand years ago, resettled in other lands where they were never accepted, and forced to move BACK to the middle east to found Israel after millions were killed in a actual Genocide. Millions, not 20,000.

These protesters might well be victims of Putin's schemes to divide us, but using a few well placed dupes who are possibly unknowingly doing Putin's dirty work, fed exaggerations by Hamas and echo chambered by Putin's troll farms... Lies like "Hamas would never rape the women or kill the children in their cribs" that we all heard and read in the month after the horrific attack of Oct 7th... or that Hamas would never have doctors in their membership, or UN aid workers, or tunnels under the hospitals, etc, etc. All lies.

So, should Nancy call on the FBI to investigate the protests? YUP...

We have our useful idiots on the left, just like the right had their useful idiots in the tea party. With good intentions but wrong. Lots of people can be brain washed.

[BeyondGeography]

10. Or possibly the author remembers more than 500 US officials including many Biden appointees calling for a ceasefire

last November. Are they Putin’s puppets too?

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/14/us/politics/israel-biden-letter-gaza-cease-fire.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&sgrp=c-cb

[Yoyoyo77]

11. Two things can be true.

[lapfog_1]

12. useful idiots might be the better term

Putin's puppets indicates that they are aware they are being manipulated, that the media is being manipulated.

Are there horrific things that happened in Gaza, certainly.

But there is a difference between what Hamas did and what Israel did.

many people don't see it. some even say that what Israel did was worse.

But the difference is that Hamas started this. Israel did not attack Gaza. Hamas attacked Israel. Not only that, the attack was timed to kill young adults, all unarmed, almost all civilians... at a music festival. Many of those young people believed in peace and co-existence. Hamas planned it, was funded to execute it.. and carried out personal killings, murders, individually. In other words they shot people running across an open field, they threw grenades into tiny bomb shelters that were crowed with unarmed kids... and shot any that tried to escape.

Israel responded by bombing... yes a lot of people died. but it was war and civilians always die in war. Hamas declared open war on Oct 7th, Hamas is the government of Gaza... elected. Yes they haven't held elections since like 2007... but elected anyway. Really no different than the Nazi's in Germany.

Maybe you would turn the other cheek. My response to the killing of 1200 citizens of a small nation... lets just say I might not have been as restrained as Israel. On the other hand I probably would have told the 2 million people to Gaza to surrender first, exit into the Negev desert where they would be identified, search for weapons, and given a tent and food and medicine... and then I would have bombed Gaza until there was nothing left of the buildings or the tunnels or of Hamas. Trying not to kill the civilians. But then there is the 5 years after that happens... people living in tents in the desert for 5 years? who is going to pay for the new buildings? and how does this end with peace... I don't know. But neither Hamas nor Israel ( at least the current governments ) want a two state solution. So I don't see any good ending.

Anybody has a plan for long term peace... please present it.

The leaders of these protests seem to think that all the Jews in Israel should just die, men, women, children. There is plenty of video where they make this clear.

[BeyondGeography]

16. The OP focuses on the politics of Pelosi's comments

which she and her spokesperson have already tried to walk back. Maybe focus on that.

There are no votes to be gained by riffing darkly on the ulterior motives or intelligence of pro-ceasefire protesters, many of whom either voted for Biden in 2020 and/or would naturally be supporters in November. Unless you have some actual facts to back it up. I’m sure Pelosi understood that intuitively as soon as she saw the headlines of her interview Sunday and I doubt she’ll go to that same place again anytime soon.

[lapfog_1]

19. if you think that government is always about gaining votes to your side...

that makes me sad.

This is about doing the right thing. And finding out if the HAMAS supporting leaders of these anti-semitic protests are funded by Putin is definitely a worthwhile goal. I hope she continues to probe these despicable people.

Personally I would invite all the protesters to please go enlist in Hamas... or simply go live in any number of theocracies in the Muslim world. See how much freedom of speech they enjoy in Saudi Arabia. Freedom of association and dress in Iran or Afghanistan. I understand that these places are very tolerant of the LGBTQ+... They honest to god (or deity of your choice) need to grow up.

[BeyondGeography]

25. Well, fortunately we're running against Trump and we can afford to alienate a few people

Even more fortunately, no one in the Biden 2024 re-election effort will publicly embrace your views of the protestors.

[lapfog_1]

27. The campaign is not the same as the administration

or didn't you know that?

and the administration is likely providing intelligence to Nancy Pelosi that caused her to call for the investigation.

She is not one to simply pull conspiracy theories out of her ass.

You agree with me on that, right? Nancy is a good democrat and wouldn't hurt our chances by alienating a bunch of young people without good reason.

[BeyondGeography]

28. Nothing like being condescended to by someone who repeatedly misses the point of the OP

That said, Pelosi is a great Democrat who made a careless mistake on a Sunday talk show and has already shown through her own subsequent statements and those of her spokesperson that she will endeavor to minimize the damage.

[lapfog_1]

29. the "point" of the OP was to negate any possible investigation into the "Genocide Joe" crowd

at least by quoting an article in the NY Times.

and try to intimate that Nancy regrets her call for an investigation into a bunch of pro Hamas protest leaders.

what are you so afraid of with an FBI investigation into these pro-Hamas leaders of the "cease fire" (funny, they never protest a cease fire to Hamas, its always just a one sided "cease fire&quot . I don't see them protesting Muslim owned stores. Why is that?

Anyway, it is a blatant attempt to NOT investigate if Putin is trying to divide the Democratic party... something that would be very useful to him to have his buddy Trump back in office. So the motive for Putin is there, there is a history of nefarious actors funding these sorts of "grass roots" protests ( Code Pink, TEA party ), so why not investigate this protest?

I bet Nancy continues to push for an investigation behind the scenes. She didn't make a mistake.

[BeyondGeography]

31. Lol...Investigate away, I don't care

The point is to stop equating protester calls for ceasefire with support for Putin. This pisses our own voters off. Get it?

“For them to call for a ceasefire is Mr Putin’s message,” Pelosi said during an interview on CNN’s State of the Union on Sunday. “Make no mistake, this is directly connected to what he would like to see.”

Statements like that lead to statements like this:

Abdullah Hammoud, the Democratic mayor of Dearborn, Michigan, a city with a sizable Arab American population that helped seal Biden’s 2020 victory in the state, shared the results of a November poll that showed broad support for a permanent ceasefire and de-escalation of violence in Gaza.

“So, based on Nancy Pelosi’s remarks, 76% of Democrats / 49% of Republicans / 61% of Americans are potentially paid operatives of Russia who are pushing Putin’s message of calling for a ceasefire??” he wrote.

Hammoud, who last week joined a group of Arab and Muslim leaders in refusing to meet with Biden’s reelection campaign manager to discuss the administration’s approach to the war, concluded: “The Democratic party leadership is in disarray.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jan/29/pelosi-condemned-pro-palestinian-russia-ties?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[lapfog_1]

36. The point is to stop equating protester calls for ceasefire with support for Putin. This pisses our own voters off.

Nobody said they support Putin. It's that they ( the leaders ) MAY be getting support FROM Putin (knowingly or unknowingly).

support can come in many forms... for example on a chat room board where Russian trolls extol the virtues of a one-sided cease fire or inflate the body count in Gaza or parrot Hamas talking points. All while denigrating those colonist Jews in Israel.

It might come in the form of anonymous donations to the leaders of the so-called "cease fire" movement. I even hear these sorts of calls on this board for a "cease fire" in Ukraine, essentially GIVING Russia a large chunk of Ukraine to Putin. it all reeks of appeasement. Hamas gets to stage one of the world's largest terror attacks and pays essentially no price for it (they don't care what happens to the Palestinian people, their political leaders in Qatar even SAY they need civilian deaths by the thousands to cement their leadership of the rest of the Palestinian people)...

In 2016 it came in the form of messaging from Russians pretending to be democrats sowing doubt in targeted districts in 11 swing states based on polling data Manafort gave to the FSB. We investigated far too late... and we got Trump as a result.

We won't know unless we actually investigate. While there is still time. Those young people marching in those "cease fire now" protests might stay home if someone published that the pro Hamas leaders of the protest movement were not the "ordinary peace loving people" that they are portrayed as being. Maybe they are, maybe they are all misguided. But if I am right and Putin is partially behind both the Hamas attack ( that much is almost a sure bet ) and the resulting "peace now" movement here being hacked... it might change some of those "Genocide Joe" protesters into "Dark Brandon is much better than Trump". As it is, investigated or not, I don't think they are voting for Joe.

Putin is KGB, and they play this sort of chess game much better that we do.

[FBaggins]

38. Putin's puppets?

Whether their strings are actively being pulled or they’re merely dancing to the same tune doesn’t matter all that much.

Whether puppets or useful idiots- they’re on the wrong side of history either way

[SoFlaBro]

13. When the pro Palestinian people started beating up black people and screaming the N word, I knew what they were about.

[Hekate]

21. Damn straight

[SoFlaBro]

33. I'm with the side that is trying to be inclusive - a Netanyahu-free Israel. October 7th will not be forgotten.

[Cha]

24. Oh wow.. I forgot about that Vicious crap.. there's

been so much Ugliness from those fans of HAMAS.

[SoFlaBro]

32. The "Free Palestine" crowd around wants me to forget and wants me to excuse but I will NEVER forget their bullshit.

[Cha]

15. NO it's NOT our Brilliant Nancy Pelosi who is "Foolish"..

Link to tweet

[Hekate]

18. Exactly, Cha

[Cha]

22. Mahalo, Hekate

Aloha

[Walleye]

42. Who is benefiting from these protests? Cui bono

[Cha]

48. Exactly. Some need to get WOKE AS

Nancy.

[tritsofme]

17. Utter nonsense. Our Speaker Emerita is incredibly perceptive. The fools are the Hamas sympathizers attacking her.

[Cha]

23. Yeah! Rec.. TY!!

[tritsofme]

26. I wish I could be surprised by their nonsense, but they have made themselves pellucidly clear.

[betsuni]

30. As usual.

[FBaggins]

39. Not just perceptive

Very likely better briefed than NYT’s editorial staff

[vercetti2021]

35. what's so foolish?

Going on to private property and beating up an old Democratic lady? Screaming at innocent Jewish Americans just going about their day? fucking traffic up? screaming at kids while visiting Santa Claus? These people are no longer about anything pro-palestinian riots they are just chaos agents... a lot of the people who are probably bankrolling these people are the same ones who will support Hamas

[betsuni]

40. I forgot about screaming at kids visiting Santa!

And in a lot of clips they're really screaming and cursing and out of control with hate at regular people. That's not protesting.

[betsuni]

37. "To conflate their sentiments with Russian meddling is not only uncalled for and wrong ... ."

Oh, just a little meddling, nothing serious, forget about the last decade or so (especially the 2016 election!), don't be silly and fall for these foolish hoaxes that, like, nobody knows anything about. No puppet, no puppet, you're the puppet.

[Think. Again.]

41. I can see how it would be in putin's interests...

...to provoke U.S. democrats into supporting "ultra-rightwing" netanyahu.

[Walleye]

43. Putin benefits from any chaos and fracturing of the United States

[leftstreet]

44. DURec

[sarisataka]

45. First Biden, then Fetterman, now Pelosi

I notice a trend...

[vercetti2021]

46. yeah everybody's starting to figure out their bullshit

It's becoming very evident