Hamas Proposes 135-day Cease-fire, Israeli Withdrawal From Gaza, Talks to End War

[Nanjeanne]

From Haaretz -

According to the three-phased cease-fire draft, hostages would be exchanged for 1,500 Palestinian prisoners, the remains of killed hostages would be handed over and Israeli forces would withdraw completely

Hamas has proposed a ceasefire plan that would quiet the guns in Gaza for four-and-a-half months leading to an end to the war, in response to a proposal sent in early February by Qatari and Egyptian mediators and backed by the United States and Israel.

There was no immediate public response from Israel, which has said it will not pull its troops out of Gaza until Hamas is wiped out.

According to a draft document seen by Reuters, the Hamas counterproposal envisages three phases of a truce, lasting 45 days each. Hamas would exchange remaining Israeli hostages they captured on October 7 for Palestinian prisoners. The reconstruction of Gaza would begin, Israeli forces would withdraw completely, and bodies and remains would be exchanged.

[link:https://archive.is/JfXYE|]

For subscribers [link:https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-02-07/ty-article/hamas-proposes-135-day-cease-fire-israeli-withdrawal-from-gaza-talks-to-end-war/0000018d-82b3-d6dc-ab9f-cfffb16f0000|]

Read whole article for details.

[Happy Hoosier]

1. Hamas remains in power? Non-starter for a "permanent" ceasefire. NT

[MarineCombatEngineer]

2. And what?

Leave Hamas in power to regroup, rearm and attack Israel again?
Yeah, that's a brilliant fucking plan.
This is more propaganda from a terrorist org. to make Israel look bad.

[Johnny2X2X]

3. Both sides have offers on the table

Negotiate something in the middle and end this now.

Hamas isn't going away, but they have been diminished substnatially. And I think the tunnel system that is a huge part of the threat has been mostly destroyed at this point.

I want Hamas gone too, but I think to truly depose them in Gaza it would take years. They are evil terrorists, but they are also the elected leaders of the Palestinian people in Gaza. So I think you've diminished the threat, and life isn't going to return to normal anytime soon in Gaza, but the people of Gaza are going to have to reject Hamas for Hamas to lose power.

[Happy Hoosier]

5. If Hamas remains in power....

... we're just letting this whole issue fester. They do not want peace. Neither does Likud. If they remain in power, Likud has an excuse to continue their BS, and Hamas will continue to plot the murder of Jews.

That's not an acceptable outcome, IMO.

[Johnny2X2X]

6. You may be right

But I fear then that this war will turn into an extermination of the Palestinian people in Gaza. It's at a breaking point right now, more people are going to be dying of starvation and disease in the coming months than bombs.

And I appreciate October 7th, that was a bigger deal for Israel than 9/11 was for the US IMO. It was a bigger % of the population killed and the depravity of it all was much worse than flying planes into buildings. Hamas cannot be dealt with, they are as bad as ISIS. Things will never return to normal with Hamas in power. But there has to be a way to stop the bombing at some point.

Get the hostages back, call a truce for a time. Let the civilians get aid and start to rebuild. Continue to keep the pressure on to depose Hamas in other ways. Otherwise, I think we could still see the same level of war in Gaza for years to come, and that's going to result in actual genocide (genocide isn't occurring right now).

[Happy Hoosier]

7. Simply put, we're at an inflection point.

Ironically, we've probably haven't been in a better position to make the radical changes required to actually forge a path ahead. But it will take the US, Europe, and the more influential Arab states to actually WANT a resolution. Israel and the Palestinians are so steeped in hate and emotion at this point that they cannot come to resolution themselves.

But for sure, Hamas has to go, and with them, Likud's reason for continuing in power.

Only then can there be a gebnuine path to peace. It's a "rip off the bandaid" moment, IMO. A permanent ceasefire with Hamas in place is just setting up the next disaster.

[Nanjeanne]

8. Agree with most of what you say. But the proposal does not include a permanent ceasefire so perhaps there

is some room for making a deal. The proposal specifies a 135 day ceasefire during which there are 3 stages. What it does specify is Implementation of the second phase would not begin until the sides conclude "indirect talks over the requirements needed to end the mutual military operations and return to complete calm."

It would be during this second phase that more work could begin toward how to move forward and it does, as noted, include "mutual military operations" - so obviously a lot of work is needed.

The truce would also increase the flow of food and other aid to Gaza's desperate civilians, who are facing hunger and dire shortages of basic supplies. This would be a good thing as well.

I'm not sure how this could all unfold and I'm certainly not capable of knowing what's best for everyone's interest - but I do know the hostages need to be released, the killing of Palestinians needs to stop, aid needs to get to people - and cooler and more thoughtful leaders than Hamas and Israeli government need to figure out a path for Israel and Palestinian peace.

[Mossfern]

14. Unfortunately

Hamas has a history of breaking cease fires....like on October 7th.

[Johnny2X2X]

9. Likud

I agree, Bibi and his Likud party have to go before a lasting peace can be attained. The Likud are not in favor of peace, freedom, and democracy, they are an obsticle to it.

[ripcord]

4. Do we laugh now or when Israel dismisses this out of hand?

It is bad enough they have to negotiate with terrorists to get their people back but there will be plenty of pressure for Israel to cave to leaving Hamas in power.

[Nanjeanne]

10. As expected, Netanyahu blasts the deal. While freed hostages beg for a deal.

The live updates come on my subscribed Haaretz feed - but here's free link: [link:https://archive.is/QxDDp|]

In tearful plea, freed hostage says: 'Netanyahu, If you continue this route, there won't be anyone left to save'

A portion of the live update:

Adina Moshe, an Israeli hostage released from captivity, said in tears: "I was there, but I was released. My friends are still there. Some of them haven't survived. I turn to you, Mr. Netanyahu. It's all in your hands. You are the one who can, and I fear that if you continue with the attempt to 'dismantle Hamas,' there won't be hostages left to save."

Moshe added that in her opinion, "the remaining hostages in captivity do not receive the necessary medications. Even among the youth, there are people who need medications, and I know them, some of whom I educated for many years."

She also said that "the country's morality is lacking. I am afraid we will have nothing to pass on to our grandchildren and great-grandchildren who will come after us. Please, prime minister, I know you can."

Sahar Calderon, 16, who was released from Hamas captivity with her brother Erez and their father Ofer still held hostage in Gaza, also said she would do everything for her father's return. "He has been in captivity for 124 days already. Do you know what it's like to be even one day there? I was there for 52 days. Why should I, a 16-year-old girl, have to go through all this horror? I may be alive and breathing, but my soul has been murdered."

There are more statements from freed hostages as well as a joint statement in the feed.

[EX500rider]

11. And if they don't eliminate Hamas is just guarantees future hostages

[Nanjeanne]

12. That's what you believe. I don't believe Hamas can ever be eliminated. Hamas is an ideology as well as

a terrorist organization. Agreeing to a 135 day pause and working out a way to live in peace is a start in something that will require great diplomacy and thoughtfulness. Perhaps it will include a new leadership for a Palestinian state. Perhaps Hamas leaders will exile in some other country. But only endless war and dead hostages and more terrorists born is this way.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

13. Here's a question for you.......

How does Israel live in peace with a terrorist org. that's dedicated to Israel's destruction and the elimination of all Jews in the ME and the world?
Can you answer that one?

[Nanjeanne]

16. I don't think anyone can answer that question in the absolute. I do think Israel can live in peace if there

is a two state solution, a peace proposal drawn up by much more capable diplomats than you or I - or Bibi or Sinwar. A few months ago, Mousa Abu Marzouk, one of Hamas' leaders did say that Hamas would recognize Israel as a way of ending the long division.

Whether there ever is peace or never is peace - I can't say. No one could. But this war has gone on for months, Hamas is not destroyed, the death toll is nearing 28,000. So many children are orphaned. So many are disabled. People are starving. Lives are being destroyed. Hostage families are begging.

I'll never give you the answer you want because you see things very differently than me. I can only give you my answers. I know it won't be enough.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

18. Hamas and Nuttyahoo don't want a 2 state solution,

and even when Nuttyahoo is removed from power and a more moderate Israeli Govt. is elected, that still leaves Hamas in power in Gaza and they've made it crystal clear that as long as they're in power, there will be no peace with Israel, their stated goal is what I wrote above, so, given that, Israel may be open to a 2 state solution in the, hopefully, near future but Hamas is adamantly opposed.

[EX500rider]

15. "perhaps new leadership, perhaps exile"

Both of those are things Israel will understandably not bend on.

Hamas CAN be eliminated as the governing power in Gaza and reduced in numbers to be a fringe element.

30,000+ of them dead will make membership a lot less popular IMO

[Nanjeanne]

19. I absolutely agree with you. Hamas CAN be eliminated as the governing power in Gaza.

However, 30,000+ will not make membership less popular. Prior to the war, Hamas had a minority support in Gaza for many years. However, since the war, their support has increased. That's why this needs to stop.

I think any future government of Gaza cannot include Hamas - and there are many names mentioned that might work out. Ultimately it has to start somewhere. A 135 day pause - a release of hostages - humanitarian aid - and a process for a peace proposal - to me seems like a good place to start. Yes Hamas can claim it as a victory of sorts. PR will be spinned. And then.... So can Israel if they bring back the hostages. After that . . . maybe Likud is gone - maybe new leadership in Gaza and a rebuilding of people's lives - and ultimately a Palestinian state and an Israeli state finding peace. There are many Israeli and Palestinian organizations working together towards that goal. They can and do work together and live together. I will still believe there can be a future.

[TheKentuckian]

20. If hostage taking is rewarded with anything but death

more hostage taking is not only on the menu, it has already been ordered.

It is foolish dangerous, and counter productive.

No shit the families will do anything to get their loved ones back, they are completely emotionally compromised and desperate making them generally incapable of making broad security decisions rationally.

[LexVegas]

17. Evil animals propose what? nt