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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsGod I don't understand why we aren't tougher on Netanyahu
I just dont get it.
I will be the first to tell you to shut up if you criticize our president or our party for any reason during these times but this ones got me just confused as hell.
And not to compare the two but how in the fuck is DeJoy still in power!
montanacowboy
(6,103 posts).......... n/t
All Mixed Up
(597 posts)Rebl2
(13,561 posts)I read there are two openings on that board that Biden needs to fill. Wonder why he hasnt, if that is true.
Walleye
(31,062 posts)But Im with you. Bibi is acting like you would expect any right wing head of state to behave.I dont know what we could do to make Netanyahu change his ways, threaten him? Plus we are the worlds weapons supplier
TheKentuckian
(25,029 posts)what I am less clear on is what someone much more generally reasonable or even liberal would do that is dramatically different in this specific situation.
To me destroying the capacity of Hamas to continue to threaten Israeli civilians is not a left or right issue at all but rather an absolute duty that needs to be settled up quickly because likely Hezbollah is the more dangerous threat and they need to be ready to deal with them without the distraction of Hamas.
Walleye
(31,062 posts)It just seems to me that no matter what we do we are going to be in perceived to be in the wrong.
GuppyGal
(1,748 posts)All Mixed Up
(597 posts)Sure, there was a spell where France kinda pissed us off for not supporting the Iraq War but that was very brief.
electric_blue68
(14,946 posts)Sky Jewels
(7,143 posts)They have most politicians on both sides by the short hairs. In my book, they are right up there with the NRA for being a horrible, right wing organization that promotes policies leading to the death and destruction of countless innocents.
Response to Sky Jewels (Reply #5)
Celerity This message was self-deleted by its author.
Lancero
(3,015 posts)Sad to see that so many now echoing the same Trumpian bullshit that we were once proud to call out, not even five years back.
Mountainguy
(537 posts)This post will probably get alerted and maybe even deleted but I'm not going to not call it out when I see it.
Accusing Jews of dual-loyalty is antisemitic.
https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/straight-talk-charge-jewish-disloyalty
Celerity
(43,540 posts)To point that out is NOT 'antisemitic'. It is a fact.
You may not like it being pointed out, but that in no way makes it untrue, and certainly does not make it 'antisemitic'.
I see 'antisemitic' falsely tossed around far too often here in an attempt to weaponise it as a tool to intimidate posters and stifle debate, to silence people that the person weilding it in such fashion simply disagrees with.
The actual main effect that using it in such a false manner is that it cheapens the word and concept, hollows it out, stretches it so thinly that it loses both meaning and impact even when correctly used.
AIPAC FULLY EMBRACES ANTI-DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES, ENDORSES VAST MAJORITY OF REPS THAT VOTED TO OVERTURN ELECTION ON JAN 6
In response to AIPACs political action committee announcement that it now endorses 109 anti-democratic Members of Congress who voted against certifying Joe Bidens election as president following the attempted insurrection on January 6, 2021, J Streets National Political Director Laura Birnbaum issued the following statement:
https://jstreet.org/press-releases/aipac-fully-embraces-anti-democratic-candidates-endorses-vast-majority-of-reps-that-voted-to-overturn-election-on-jan-6/
Since announcing earlier this year that they had endorsed over three dozen Members of Congress who voted to overturn the presidential election results on January 6, AIPAC has faced strong condemnation and criticism from prominent Jewish communal leaders and commentators, including several of their own former senior staff. Yet instead of reversing course, they have now tripled down endorsing 109 anti-democratic Members of Congress. They have sent a clear message that they do not care about the future of American democracy, and that they are ready to raise millions of dollars for those who empower and excuse insurrection.
AIPACs support for these candidates undermines the true interests and values of millions of American Jews and pro-Israel Americans who AIPAC often claims to represent. Elected officials who threaten the very future of our country should be completely beyond the pale whatever their views on Israel.
While AIPAC claims to solely care about one issue, the truth is that by spending millions of dollars to support far-right Republicans, they are deliberately choosing to undermine democracy and harmfully impact our politics at a critical moment in the history of our country. Claims of bipartisanship cannot excuse support for candidates who only respect election results when their party wins.
J Street has repeatedly urged all pro-Israel PACs to take a Democracy Pledge to never support such anti-democratic candidates. We will continue to do all that we can to support elected officials who are prepared to uphold and defend democracy both in the US and in Israel, and to confront those who falsely claim to speak for the American Jewish and pro-Israel communities. The full list of AIPAC-endorsed candidates who voted to overturn the election results on January 6 can be found here. In total, AIPAC now endorses over two-thirds of all those who sided with the insurrectionists.
https://jstreet.org/press-releases/j-street-calls-on-fellow-pro-israel-pacs-to-join-them-in-pledge-not-to-support-candidates-who-threaten-american-democracy/
snip
electric_blue68
(14,946 posts)I remember being happy to hear about J Street some years back. 👍
DC77
(106 posts)Why is he still there? Isnt he supposed to be in jail for corruption? Not many people like him. He barely won last time. This is why elections matter!
BootinUp
(47,194 posts)Honest about it IMHO. You can either believe them or not. Secondly, no matter what any activists here or anywhere *think* they know, the people in the administration know more. Lastly, Joe is doing the job we hired him to do and nobody can do it any better IMHO.
marble falls
(57,252 posts)... TFG and then Joe Biden. Maybe he took the machinations to pull him down seriously. He's still a splinter in my craw, but I haven't seen any negative thing about him in over a year. It seems like the plans to close 1000s of small post offices in small towns across the US has been abandoned.
I think he is a pure manager with no overt political bend. I think he takes the mandate he's been given and manages accordingly. He got a new director and he's adopted a new direction.
All Mixed Up
(597 posts)There was an idea that once Biden replaced the members (Biden has nominated five of the seven governors on the board), they'd oust him - but they clearly don't believe he should be ousted so to them, he must be doing something right.
marble falls
(57,252 posts)... be a MAGA hatted scotch swiller, but he seems to know how to separate his private life from his professional career.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,121 posts)marble falls
(57,252 posts)Eliot Rosewater
(31,121 posts)hasnt already.
marble falls
(57,252 posts)... is committing felony election fraud in a conspiracy? Why would he do this???
All Mixed Up
(597 posts)Beastly Boy
(9,457 posts)Or in Israel, for that matter.
former9thward
(32,082 posts)I don't see how you could make your last statement if you have.
marble falls
(57,252 posts)They are protesting him for a myriad of reasons
https://www.npr.org 2023 07 22 1189627225 israel-protests-netanyahu-judiciary
Hundreds of thousands march in Israel against Netanyahu's ... - NPR
Jul 22, 2023Thousands of Israelis march along a highway toward Jerusalem in protest of plans by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's government to overhaul the judicial system, near Abu Gosh, Israel, on Saturday.
https://www.reuters.com world middle-east protesters-outside-israeli-pm-netanyahus-house-anger-grows-2023-11-04
Protesters mass outside Netanyahu's house as anger grows
Nov 5, 2023The protest, which coincided with a poll showing more than three quarters of Israelis believe Netanyahu should resign, underlined the growing public fury at their political and security leaders.
https://abcnews.go.com International israeli-protests-netanyahus-judicial-reform-plan-explained story?id=98148726
Here's why Israelis are protesting Benjamin Netanyahu's judicial ...
Mar 27, 2023Israelis are protesting against a judicial reform plan proposed by Netanyahu's hardline nationalist government -- a plan that some see as a consolidation of power, with parliament increasing its ...
https://www.nytimes.com 2024 02 17 world middleeast tel-aviv-protest-netanyahu-israel.html
Tel Aviv Protesters Show Anger Toward Netanyahu and Israel's Government ...
6 days agoLarge Antigovernment Protest Returns to Tel Aviv, as Criticism of Netanyahu Mounts. The demonstrations took a pause after the Oct. 7 attacks, but the anger at the Israeli leadership never went away.
https://www.bbc.com news world-middle-east-64362652
Israelis stage giant protest against Netanyahu court reform - BBC
Jan 21, 2023Israelis stage giant protest against Netanyahu court reform. An estimated 110,000 people have packed the streets of Tel Aviv, in one of Israel's biggest anti-government protests in the past decade ...
https://apnews.com article israel-protest-netanyahu-courts-c986101a5d80e9dce1bc2d4c59f834bb
Israelis block roads in protest against Netanyahu legal plan
Israelis have blocked roads and demonstrated against a contentious government plan to overhaul the judiciary. The protesters hope Thursday's events will ramp up pressure on lawmakers days after parliament reconvened following a month-long recess. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu paused the overhaul in March after intense pressure and the opposing sides are trying to reach a compromise ...
https://www.nbcnews.com news world israel-protests-netanyahu-judicial-reforms-rcna76942
What to know about the Israeli protests over Netanyahu's judicial reforms
Mar 28, 2023Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu at the Knesset on Monday. Marc Israel Sellem / AFP - Getty Images Mass protests began soon after, with tens of thousands marching in Jerusalem and Tel ...
https://apnews.com article israel-legal-courts-corruption-netanyahu-40c11160c9a93cc717dcf61eed52dda6
Mass protests erupt after Netanyahu fires defense chief
The State Department dismissed as "completely false" claims repeated by Yair Netanyahu, the prime minister's son, that the U.S. government was financing these protests. Leaders of Israel's vibrant high-tech industry have said the changes will scare away investors, former top security officials have spoken out against the plan and key ...
https://apnews.com article israel-protests-judiciary-us-netanyahu-embassy-a9d6aa267f14a9136a4b5135690d87f4
Thousands protest outside US offices in Tel Aviv, say Netanyahu ...
Jul 13, 2023A man waves Israeli and U.S. flags during a protest against plans by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's new government to overhaul the judicial system, outside of the U.S. Embassy Branch Office in Tel Aviv, Israel on Thursday, July 13, 2023. ... business leaders, LGBTQ+ and other
former9thward
(32,082 posts)And he was easily re-elected the next year.
marble falls
(57,252 posts)... son for corruption like Netanyahu, ......
Nice try at deflection. The point was your claim Israeli's unconditionally love him. My post disputes that as malarky. How many times did he have make deals with other parties to make a government to keep from another election? Why didn't the Israelis ever love him enough to keep him from having to make deals with other parties to keep his government standing?
How many coalition governments has he had? How many fell forcing elections? Popularity would have prevented that.
Do you think Bush was legitimately elected? Is there an Israeli equivalent of "Swiftboating"? Did Netanyahu use it?
LeftInTX
(25,559 posts)They form coalitions. His party does not need a majority to win.
As long other parties form coalitions with Likud, he stays in power.
LeftInTX
(25,559 posts)Mizrahi Jews are Jews of Middle Eastern descent.
There are several far right parties who form coalitions with Likud.
Bibi gets back in due to those coalitions.
Beastly Boy
(9,457 posts)As for my statement, it is well founded:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/only-15-of-israelis-want-netanyahu-to-keep-job-after-gaza-war-poll-finds/
Have you ever been to Israel?
former9thward
(32,082 posts)And to the West Bank, Gaza, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt several times. Israel is based on coalition politics and if his coalition wants him gone he will be gone. Your poll is "after the war". Not now.
Beastly Boy
(9,457 posts)And another one:
https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/israeli-poll-shows-netanyahu-s-popularity-drops-as-gantz-surges-1.1984369
And another one:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/surveys-show-gantz-holds-commanding-lead-over-netanyahu-as-war-approaches-100th-day/
And another one:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/over-half-of-israelis-say-theyre-let-down-by-war-cabinets-handling-of-hamas-conflict/
What makes you think my presumption is wrong?
former9thward
(32,082 posts)There is not a millimeter of difference between the two.
Beastly Boy
(9,457 posts)And yes, Ganttz is very different.
For starters, he doesn't have corruption accusations to divert from.
marble falls
(57,252 posts)Police Use Water Cannons Against Anti-Government Protesters in Tel Aviv
The Times of Israel
February 24, 2024
Police used water cannons against anti-government protesters while clashing with them in Tel Aviv on Saturday night, as demonstrators at a nearby rally calling for the return of hostages held in Gaza expressed rare optimism following reported progress in talks on a hostage deal with Hamas.
The clashes, the most violent of their kind since the outbreak of war on October 7, resulted in 21 arrests and several injuries Saturday night on Kaplan Street, opposite the Kirya army base, which is the headquarters of Israel's defense establishment.
[snip]
Video showed one mounted officer using the reins of his horse to strike a protester across his head.
The demonstrator was then seen falling to the ground while clutching his head, as the officer rode on.
More:
https://timesofisrael.com/as-hope-for-a-deal-fills-hostages-square-chaos-erupts-at-nearby-anti-netanyahu-rally/
former9thward
(32,082 posts)Yes, Israel is a democracy where people protest. Unlike most of its dictatorship neighbors, including Gaza, where protestors are shot down or otherwise executed.
ProfessorGAC
(65,199 posts)America doesn't run Israel, to the first question.
DeJoy isn't that powerful, so not much a threat, is my guess as to the 2nd question.
marble falls
(57,252 posts)MOMFUDSKI
(5,674 posts)end of January 2025 the shit would be hitting the fan. Timing is ALWAYS everything.
madaboutharry
(40,221 posts)1. President Biden does not need to pander to American Jews. Nearly 80% of American Jews are democrats and their vote is solid.
2. It is fair to say that the majority of American Jews would be very pleased if Netanyahu resigned, like by tomorrow.
JI7
(89,274 posts)karynnj
(59,504 posts)The US has always been very reluctant to not protect Israel in the UN. Remember that at the end of the Obama administration, it was a BIG deal that the US abstained on a resolution that was 100 percent in keeping with US policy and it included sentences that spoke of Palestinian transgressions. The outrage from Israel and AIPAC was quick and loud.
This time, the problem was there was an outrageous Hamas attack before the war. This led to the initial response of sympathy by Biden the image of which has colored the perspective that he was 100 percent behind Israel. I wonder whether Biden's national security team also thought they could temper Netanyahu's response more if they were seen as sympathetic. In reality, Netanyahu is a liar and can't be believed.
The problem now is that the small corrections in our position though more balanced than decades of US policy are still seen as supporting Netanyahu.
Arazi
(6,829 posts)So even a substantial number of Dems dont know what hes done to pressure Netanyahu/Israel, or his work on getting aid freed up, or his work trying to pull together a postwar plan for Gaza etc.
Theres been a catapult of propaganda (heh, Bush*) on social media platforms like TikTok and once that avalanche started, its been impossible to get any truth to penetrate through the persistent shitstorm.
Its also Bidens way to work behind the scenes and say little until the deal making is finished. He/his comms team need to make the effort to report progress over and over
AnrothElf
(623 posts)Israel is, of course, a foreign country, with one of the world's most direct democracies (read: MOB RULE). Biden, as head of state, represents the entire US when dealing with Netanyahoo, who, likewise, represents HIS entire nation. When you say that "we" need to be harder on Netanyahoo, the problem is "we" can't really do that without being harder on Israel, in general -- our only ostensible ally in the region.
What "we" CAN do is speak state-to-state in the language of diplomacy. It's worked in the past. Meanwhile, "we" can also encourage Israelis to agitate against their democratically-elected leader, and eventually vote him the fuck out.
Know who CAN'T do all that? Biden can't. Trustfund babies wearing Amazon keffiyehs and screaming "from the river to the sea" can't do that.
Most importantly... Gazans can't do that TO THEIR OWN LEADERS. Where are the cries from Gazans for Hamas to surrender? Where are the anti-Hamas marches by keffiyah-wearing entitled Westerners? For that matter... where are the anti-Hamas marches by fucking GAZANS for fuck's sake?!
*crickets*
As for the USPS, it's a well-known fact that it's governed by an independent board. Biden can try to meddle in board politics to get DeJoy booted, but he's not some kind of authoritarian like Netanyahoo.
LetMyPeopleVote
(145,597 posts)LeftInTX
(25,559 posts)WarGamer
(12,484 posts)agingdem
(7,859 posts)Joe Biden is not the shadow president of Israel...he holds very little sway as does every other foreign leader...he can advise, send diplomats, write sternly worded emails, place sanctions on aid to Israel but that's it...the pro-Palestine crowd can stage protests, tear down hostage posters, vandalize synagogues/Jewish community centers, display overt antisemitism, target/harass Jewish college students but Israel will do whatever it takes to secure it's borders and survive...
As for DeJoy
he (Trump and Barr) did his damnedest to fix the 2020 election in Trumps favor..he slowed down the mail, trashed mail sorters, removed mailboxes
and yet, Biden won
I suspect once Joe wins a second term DeJoys days are numbered