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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWent shopping for a car today and I have questions
My first time in years looking for a car. I am one of those guys that drives my cars until they die...and then keep them a little longer.
Went to a Toyota, Honda and Lexus dealer. Never have bought a "luxury" car before, but I am old, did OK for myself, and thought I'd look at a Lexus for comfort, quiet and features.
I really wasn't floored by the prices. I knew I was going to pay more than $600, like I did for the used Nova I bought from a neighbor back in the 70s, for a new, or used car today.
Every new model I looked at had something called a "Market Value" added to it that ranged from $3K to $5K.
As I understand it, that's just money I pay for the pleasure of buying a car. I understand it is based on supply and demand, but I have questions.
- Why in the fuck would anybody pay that? It seems to me, if people would just walk away, dealers would stop this practice. Hell, buy a used car that doesn't have $5K in "market value" added to it.
You might as well take $5K and light it on fire.
- How can you complain about inflation, it you're willing to pay $5K for nothing other than the privilege of being sold a car.
Anyway, I think I'm going to keep looking for something slightly used...like me.
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Shellback Squid
(10,204 posts)MLAA
(19,835 posts)I bought the smallest Lexus SUV 2 years ago and don’t t remember a market value adder. I sold my Mini Cooper on Carvana instead of trading it in at the Lexus dealer and got $10,000 more than the dealer offered but that was when used cars were at a premium. You might check out Carvana for a slightly used car 
PSPS
(15,402 posts)Delphinus
(12,565 posts)Thank you - I'll be searching too.
MLAA
(19,835 posts)
maxrandb
(17,532 posts)They tried to lowball him on his trade-in, so he started walking out and said; "I'll be back, I need to sell my car first".
They ended up giving him a good price on his trade-in.
My dad taught me to always be ready to walk away.
jmbar2
(8,251 posts)Good luck in your search.
Chainfire
(17,757 posts)job last month.
I won't buy a new car until some sanity returns to the market. I think, that after the dealer offering a price for my trade, that I would suggest that we add a $5,000.00 market premium to the price because used cars are up too.
MLAA
(19,835 posts) Chainfire
(17,757 posts)
Lurker Deluxe
(1,085 posts)I bought a 2015 brand new and was travelling more than I was home, had like 6K miles on it, when I had an issue.
Came home from a 4 month trip to a dead battery, not to surprised. Was also expired registration.
Jumped it off and drove to a pace to renew it that was a good 30 minute drive. Went in and renewed my stuff, came out ... click click.
Blah.
Scanned the code thing on the window, pulled up an app, entered the information. Was a little miffed that no one to actually talk to.
15 minutes later someone pulled up, hoped out, hooked up a portable jumper, started me up, informed me where the closest Kia dealership was, and let me know they were expecting me.
Drove over to the dealership and was speaking with the service people. Asked how long it would take and was told to go get a cup of coffee ... I did not want any coffee and let him know. He again suggested I go get a drink.
WHY?!?
Because that is how it will take. *laugh
15 minutes at the dealership, new battery, and no charge.
That was a good car.
MLAA
(19,835 posts)MLAA
(19,835 posts)Thanks! I’ve always looked at cars as transportation not a hobby, so the fact it just works is important to me.
jmbar2
(8,251 posts)The insurance company automatically wanted to total it, but when they saw prices of used Kias, the bumped the replacement cost for it up to $3400 and fixed it. Not bad for a 17 year old car.
Aristus
(72,671 posts)Best advice there is. They're counting on you to fall in love with the car too much to want to walk away from it.
To that advice I would add: always be nice and polite. People see car deals as adversarial (and they can be). But car salespeople are human, too. They would much rather talk with someone pleasant than have to deal with an asshole (whom, sooner or later, they will "lot-drop" IOW: abandon without helping)
In the past, if I was given an offer I didn't like, I would kill them with kindness and submit a counter offer. If they continued to low-ball me, I would either say "I need to think about it", or make an excuse to leave. That usually prompted a better offer.
Always be nice. Always be prepared to walk away.
Jimbo S
(3,044 posts)Where I live, it has become notorious as a car for break-ins. Security features can be compromised.
PSPS
(15,402 posts)They'll squawk about it, saying whatever they can think of to get you to think it's mandatory. It's all lies. When you start to walk out, they'll change their tune.
And be sure to reject everything they try to "add on" in the "manager's office." They're all up-sells that you don't want or need and are 100% profit to the dealer.
Never forget that, even if they sell the car for what "they paid for it" (i.e., "dealer invoice," ) they still make a profit from the "holdback" from the manufacturer, usually at least 3%.
Liberal In Texas
(16,494 posts)from the salt on the roads. Pure nonsense. Snake oil.
Just do the research and offer what you think the car is worth (or some below if you feel like dickering.)
I think the last time I bought a car was in 2018 and the upsell was some kind of anti-theft system. I declined.
global1
(26,507 posts)They're just seeing what they can get away with. If you fall for this Market Value racket - they'll just keep trying to con people with it.
The supply issues we had during and after the pandemic are over. I'm hearing that most dealers have a surplus of cars.
Really it should be a buyers market now. Don''t let them take advantage of you.
When I ultimately make the decision to buy - I refuse to take any of these tack on deals that they offer.
You have to play hard ball as a buyer - just like they are trying to play hardball as a seller.
Believe me - once the deal is consummated - they'll respect you and they make a few bucks as well. Hopefully - you both walk away satisfied.
maxrandb
(17,532 posts)I just don't understand such a markup.
One of the salesman seemed almost embarrassed by it and said we can work a good price.
I still think I am going to look for certified pre-owned. I like the idea of someone else paying the depreciation.
Last new car I bought was an 86 Mazda 626, but my bride worked at the dealership and got a small discount.
Zeitghost
(4,557 posts)But with many desirable models, they will gladly let you walk because someone will be along shortly that will pay it.
This is of course model and region dependent, but it's fairly commonplace now to get over MSRP.
CTyankee
(68,574 posts)At least I know what to expect. I posted here about my "choices." Hubby doesn't but I expect he'll get a shock. I did everything I could to prepare him and I think he just doesn't know what's coming. I have reached the point where I just have to let him absorb the shock, get mad, vent all over the sales person and finally get to acceptance of things he can't change, like I did.
He still thinks it's the same as it was when he traded in his PT Cruiser for our first leased Sentra. 
GoneOffShore
(18,036 posts)And I saw a cabriolet version two days ago. There are at least three more around here, all in great shape.
Why don't you extend your lease or buy your leased car if you are happy with it? I haven't seen too many giving you guidance on this. Do you have a savvy friend or family member to help?
CTyankee
(68,574 posts)are driving now. It's a good car and we both like it. The monthly lease payment isn't that much more and I can afford it and I'm tired of fighting it. I am going to ask my husband to start sharing the monthly cost (he always talks about sacrificing his first car which is getting pretty stale now). He's willing to put up half of the money down on the new one.
I think I'm done with this. The worry and anger, at my advanced age, is just not worth it. Ya gotta "know when to fold them" as the old song goes...
brush
(61,033 posts)so you know it's in good shape, get a new-car warranty from the dealer, and you're looking at half the price for a practically new car?
I've done it before and it worked out well.
Old Crank
(7,394 posts)The MSRP gives the dealer a profit on the car. The extra is just more for them.
Here is one article. Take it for what it is worth.
https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shopping-guides/what-are-dealer-market-adjustments-on-cars
I would look for a relatively low mileage car 2-3 years old. Cars these days are going to last. Average life is over 12 years now. I would look for backup cameras and the proximity sensors. Other than comfort and your direct needs. My sister likes the minivan style because they are easier for her to get in and out of.
I haven't had a car for over 8 years. Just rent as required. I have more trouble looking back to see when backing. I do like the sensors for blind spots. I like the adaptive cruise controls. I am not renting top end cars and many have these features. Many now can display the speed limits.
Good luck.
Mr.Bill
(24,906 posts)We had add on prices on every new car on the lot. I never saw anyone actuall pay that extra amount, but I saw a lot of people pay sticker price and think they really beat us up and got a great deal.
That's pretty much why they do it. Of course, during the pandemic and supply chain issues, it was done because of supply and demand. And because they were selling far fewer cars, they had to make more on each one.
pwb
(12,814 posts)all new Camrys are hybrid. All I have to do is drive normally. 47 miles per gallon. None of that add on stuff at the dealers I went too. Supply is building now and they should want to sell. Covid shortages are over tell them.
Scrivener7
(60,248 posts)Scrivener7
(60,248 posts)The prices were CRAZY!! I thought I'd try a Honda Fit. STILL, prices ridiculous.
Found a little hybrid Lexus, 4 years old but with only 12K miles on it. It was cheaper than either of the Hondas.
I've had it for 4 years and LOVE it.
mitch96
(15,905 posts)And, well...it's a Lexus!
m
Scrivener7
(60,248 posts)He was right, as usual!
mitch96
(15,905 posts)CT200H. The discontinued it in 2017. It's essentially a Prius, so parts aren't a problem, but it has a lot of nice features.
Edited. I just learned they DIDN'T discontinue it. Don't know why I was thinking that.
Edited again. Yes they did discontinue it. 
mitch96
(15,905 posts)UX250 fits the bill for me. LIke your CT200h it's basically a Prius under the skin..
m
Scrivener7
(60,248 posts)Basic LA
(2,047 posts)So when I finally ditched my '93 Geo Prism a couple years ago, I got a good buy on a 2020 Honda Fit. That was the last model year for the Fit.
But what got me was the baffling electronics. To this day, not even the dealer is able to change the clock to Standard Time. And this car is relatively bare bones digitally compared to the higher end cars.
kimbutgar
(27,668 posts)I paid more for that car then I put as a down payment on my home I brought 30 years ago. I usually keep my cars for 10-12 years. I had a 2011 Dodge Avenger with 98,000 miles that I got $2000 for. I laugh that my first car I got in 1974 was only $700 and had 40,000 miles on it. I worked all summer before going to college and my payment chipped in also!
MOMFUDSKI
(7,080 posts)neighbor today who has been looking. He said the Lexus was Boss. Will probably get it.
PufPuf23
(9,994 posts)Now nearly everything has an element of scam and the TV is flooded with potential rip offs of senior citizens.
Niagara
(12,371 posts)Last edited Sun Feb 25, 2024, 08:02 PM - Edit history (1)
I'm not in a hurry at all and I'm taking my time with this. I want it to be the right time and the right decision. Most consumer's purchase high ticket items with emotions and I don't want to fall down that path. It helps that I'm naturally frugal.
I've also been watching CarEdge on YouTube. This older gentlemen has been in the vehicle business for over 40 years and his sidekick is his son. He seems legit to me. In a recent video he stated to wait until June to purchase a vehicle and has other useful tips on other videos. If you're not a YouTube hater, I would recommend watching some of these videos.
General channel link: https://www.youtube.com/@CarEdge/videos
Good luck, maxrandb.
JI7
(93,908 posts)To avoid dealing with problems that might show up and to just have that comfort something nice.
redqueen
(115,186 posts)But as long as some are some sellers will charge it.
This thread reminded me of the scene from Fargo.
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)I researched the appropriate purchase price, and decided what price I was willing to pay. Dealers accepted it.
nb. These were straight cash purchase prices. No downpayment, no auto loans, no trade-ins.
Freethinker65
(11,203 posts)Last edited Sun Feb 25, 2024, 08:45 PM - Edit history (1)
Crap I did not want nor need.
Went to True Car and have an appointment on Tuesday for quoted out the door price for a no dealer extras comparable car at a less convenient dealership. I am hoping it ends up not being a bait and switch (the car in the original offer has just been sold, but we have this alternative with a few options...). We shall see.
WarGamer
(18,918 posts)But most dealerships are NOT doing the ADM (additional Dealer Markup) thing any more.
Call them and ask if they're selling at sticker or "still doing the ridiculous over MSRP thing"
In SoCal for example, most Lexus dealers are NOT marking up any more...
Some dealerships... like Longo didn't even charge over MSRP in the middle of COVID.
maxrandb
(17,532 posts)I think a lot of the COVID gouging has hung around, not because of market conditions, but because they can.
WarGamer
(18,918 posts)Told them over the phone I wouldn't se foot on the lot without assurance no ADM...
Actually got it under MSRP.
leftieNanner
(16,180 posts)Only two were bought new. Got 323,000 miles out of my last car.
A good quality car coming off lease is a good bet.
My sister bought a used Lexus hybrid SUV from Car Max. She loves it. Also, maintenance on the Lexus is not as expensive as for a BMW or Mercedes. Remember, it's essentially a Toyota.
Good luck.
TexasBushwhacker
(21,331 posts)So many people and businesses lease cars for 2 or 3 years and turn them back in. You can save thousands of dollars. As for all the add-ons you don't want, you have to be willing to walk away. I got up from my chair 3 times with the last car I bought. If they say they already added a security system you don't want, tell them to take it off. If they say they can't, tell them "That's not my problem". I probably said that a dozen times.
I like CarGuru and Autotrader apps because they tell you how long the car has been on the lot. The CarFax app is good too.
Conjuay
(3,119 posts)MSRP + an extra charge.
‘msrp is what the manufacturer says it’s worth’
‘Oh, we can get more than that’
‘ Not from me you can’t!’
rwild1967
(39 posts)Do not, under any circumstances, pay that. It's something they came up with during the covid chortages and its time is well past. Cars are sitting on the lot and easy to get now. Be clear with whomever you are speaking that that you will pay for the car, but not their stupid robbery fees.
TheBlackAdder
(29,981 posts)Most dealerships are seeing large sales drops while vehicles sit in inventory and they are paying for it. So people who walk into a dealership are often held hostage and placed under high-pressure 4-square sales tactics that only scummy dealerships used to do. Just look up 4-square on YouTube.
Then, when you get any car, check to see the delivery date. Years ago, a dealer was trying to get me into a minivan that was bought by another failed dealership the next state over and it was sitting on their lot for over a year! You know mice are living in that thing and eating the wiring and stuff. Who wants a car with a year of dirt parking lot rust on it?
obamanut2012
(29,642 posts)And, I just checked my local Ford place, and they have several Mavericks, just with ridic markups.
A HERETIC I AM
(24,909 posts)Your "Market Value" at one dealer is also called an "Additional Dealer Margin" or Markup and I've seen it referred to as "Additional Dealer Reserve"
They've been around for decades, frankly.
I bought my first new car ever (I'll be 65 in May) in October and bought it from a dealer 300 miles away because they were one of only a small handful in the whole region that was selling that car for no ADM. The Chevy dealer nearest me wanted $10,000 over MSRP!
Yeah, it happens. as others have probably pointed out (I didn't read the whole thread, sorry) Dealers can get away with it when demand is high and supply is low for a particular model.
Once you find out that is the trend, you have to just call around to dealers far and wide to find one that will sell that model at MSRP.
It sucks, but that's the car business for ya.
Happy Hoosier
(9,689 posts)The funny part is that the new car market is on the edge right now.... inventory is stacking up. I've never paid MSRP for a car, and I won't buy a new one for MSRP either. I can usually do at least 5% better.
Happy Hoosier
(9,689 posts)And tell them negotiations start without ridiculous mark-ups. Car supplies are no longer tight. Any place trying that crap is just looking to screw you.
maxrandb
(17,532 posts)I never understood why buying a car in America has always seemed like shopping at the Grand Bazzar in Instanbul.
The only thing missing is the little kids running around with platters of tea and Raki.
I used to enjoy bartering, but now it just seems a pain in the a$$.
Happy Hoosier
(9,689 posts)For a long time now, I do my research before I go in. I know the delaership has to make money (though I find the dealership model awful), so I do consider that. I present them with a total out-the-door price I am willing to pay, all taxes and fees included. We either make the deal, or I move on. I usually aim for something a little better than the "average deal" in my area. I make it clear that if the price we agree on is different when we get to the papaerwork phase, I'll walk. I'll look at their menu of up-sells, but there had better not be any "oh, we have to include that mandatory fee we didn't mentioned before" crap. I do not like being "worked."
JustAnotherGen
(38,170 posts)A used GMC Sierra - low miles - and saved about 20K.
He's a blacksmith/fabricator - independent - so he needs a truck that can haul iron rod and hitch a trailer for finished goods.
We took new off the table.
When people accuse us of being rich - its because we make choices based on living below our means. He turns 55 in May - and that's 20K in our retirement accounts.
Happy Hoosier
(9,689 posts)And that's what I did for a long time.... buy low-mileage late-model cars.
Now we buy them new, but we keep them for 10+ years. I have to replace our minivan soon..... it's now 14 years old.
I do follow the "20/3/8" rule... well almost. The 20/3/8 rule is "20% down, 3-year loan, total monthyl cost of ownership no more than 8 percent on your gross income." I do 4 years, not 3. I keep my cars forever, and the if the interest rate is decent, the difference between 3 and 4 years in total interest isn't that much, but not having the higher monthly payment offers a bit more flexibility. I can always pay down extra principal.
JustAnotherGen
(38,170 posts)I had a parental advantage in 1995 that has enabled me to save and pay /outright purchase. I'm 51 - and on my 4th new car.
But not everyone has a parent who can help them with a savings match out of college. First new was a geo prism without AC
Happy Hoosier
(9,689 posts)After years of faffing about, I finally have my financial house in order.
The current interest rate deal I have my eye on is 2.9%. At that rate, it makes sense to finance, since my saving can do better than that. But if rates creep back up, I'd love to be able to buy for cash outright. I'm a bit aways from that yet.
cliffside
(1,830 posts)but have only bought new a few times with zero interest and have never leased. A big IF you can pay cash or at least pay down the loan quickly, especially considering interest rates now, I would look for a slightly used car. Two new Honda's, at zero interest, a used Lexus (which was expensive to repair) Most recently a used Subaru, bought a 2017 in 2018 which was corporate owned and only 4K miles, if new they wanted another 8K. I gave up a few bells and whistles and have been happy, it has been reliable. Good luck!
JCMach1
(29,259 posts)How they screwed over Minorities on finance (happened to my wife in 2016)...
Then when said Toyota was totaled in a hail storm the company sat on our balance refund for 9 months after the insurance company has paid out.
We just say hell no to Toyota in our household.
ecstatic
(35,151 posts)You can see the deals incentives etc that others are getting (I think a lot of dealers are on there too) and go from there. You can post the deal you're being offered and get a quick response on whether it's a good deal or not. I've used it in real time when negotiating car pricing. Just go to the specific made/model you're looking into:
https://forums.edmunds.com/discussions/tagged/lexus/lexus
jimfields33
(19,382 posts)A used car may keep the premium down some. Auto insurance has gone through the roof.
JT45242
(4,204 posts)They will charge as much as poeple are willing to pay to have the name brand they want. South Park famously did an episode making fun of this. (For example, a Prius cost like an extra $5K in Seattle because of the hipster audience)
If you do not want to pay that, find a car just as highly rated that is a different brand. HOnda and Toyota have loyal customers who will pay this.
Lunabell
(7,309 posts)If you live in a cold area, get heated seats!!
I never knew what I was missing until I got it. I live in Florida, but sometimes the weather is really cold. You don't have to wait for the heater to heat up as the car heats up. What a wonderful idea.