Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Irish_Dem

(55,586 posts)
Mon Mar 4, 2024, 04:24 PM Mar 2024

How bad does it have to get? If we lose it all, how do we take it back?

Another member of this sub asked some good questions on another thread, and we had an interesting discussion. Thought it might make a good OP.

The other DU member asks: WWII may have been prevented if the democracies of the world, ourselves, included, had acted sooner. It took Peal Harbor to shake us our of this delusion, back when. What it will take this time around?


Irish Dem reply:

Maybe the loss of our democracy.


This is what we are looking at as quite possible in our near future:

1. Fascist, white male christian minority rule. 


2. All the things people took for granted, taken away.
3. The American people are going to face a big learning curve at some point.
4. A very difficult learning experience.

The other DU member asks: If we lose it all, how do we take it back? 

Better to have this "domestic war" before they gain total control. The problem is we don't have a charismatic "leader" who will take us there. 

We once had a JFK, an MLK, and an RFK to "take us there." 

It's something we are badly in need of today.


Irish Dem reply:

1. The problem is many do not realize we are in a domestic and global war.

2. The PutinGOP wages war against us, as does China and the rest of the autocratic bloc.
They wish to shift the global world order to their favor. And become 21st century superpowers.

3. Most of the GOP aligns with the autocratic bloc because they want what fascists have:
total permanent power and access to all national financial assets.

4. US oligarchs appear to have aligned with the autocratic bloc as well.
They want cheap labor, no taxes and no regulation.

5. Dictator and oligarch rule go hand in hand.

6. This fascist and oligarch goal is now deeply embedded across our government at the highest levels.

7. I do not think a single Dem charismatic leader is the answer.

8. Please note that JFK, RFK, MLK were all assassinated by those in power.

9. I think we do need strong leadership but one person cannot do it alone.

10. But first it entails leaders and citizens finally facing reality. The geopolitics tectonic plates
are shifting beneath our feet as we speak.

11. There is a saying in the mental health field: The truth will set you free, but first it will hurt like hell.

12. It may indeed take a Pearl Harbor type event to wake up the American people.

13. This event will be the loss of our democracy and freedom.

14. At the end of the day it is going to fall on We The People to fight for our democracy.

15. And fight hard.

16. It will take a complex plan to win back our democracy. And require courage.

8 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
 

Barry Markson

(280 posts)
4. I don't think NATO has ever gotten involved with an internal dispute in a member country.
Mon Mar 4, 2024, 05:00 PM
Mar 2024

But maybe the American people would welcome an armed intervention by the United Nations!
That's been done before.

Wadda you say?

Aristus

(67,619 posts)
3. One of my biggest reasons for hope is that the American people really don't like being told what to do.
Mon Mar 4, 2024, 04:55 PM
Mar 2024

If the American people had a collective shit-fit over mask mandates and vaccine requirements when relatively rational, competent, devoted public servants were in office, how do you think they'll react when the person in charge of looking like someone's in charge is some 400lb loser with a scraggly rat's-nest beard, a wardrobe full of XXXL tactical gear, and who calls himself an 'alpha-dog'?

We make a lot of references to Weimar-Era Germany and the German people here; easy prey for the Nazis. But unlike post-Imperial Germany, the American people have not been conditioned to absolute, unquestioning obedience; and any American Quisling-wannabe is going to get laughed off the dictator-balcony.

It's a scary time, and we have valid reasons for being afraid. But we have a lot more reason to be hopeful than German liberals and humanists did in 1938.

 

Barry Markson

(280 posts)
5. But the people that had a collective shit-fit over mask mandates and vaccine requirements
Mon Mar 4, 2024, 05:04 PM
Mar 2024

Are mostly TFG's mob of supporters who got us in this fix in the 1st place.

Aristus

(67,619 posts)
7. Every autocrat eventually over-reaches.
Mon Mar 4, 2024, 05:10 PM
Mar 2024

And demand something that even his most fervent and devoted admirers will balk at.

doc03

(36,241 posts)
8. Once an autocrat gains power it is nearly imposible to get them out short of an
Mon Mar 4, 2024, 05:45 PM
Mar 2024

armed revolution, Look at Russia, Putin just murders any opposition and elections are rigged. After the USSR
imploded democracy never got a foothold before Putin took it back to a dictatorship. I think the west was partially
responsible for that.

TheKentuckian

(25,687 posts)
6. I can assure you that it is far easier to keep than restore.
Mon Mar 4, 2024, 05:10 PM
Mar 2024

So, if maintaining democracy seems too tough then there will be little stomach for what would be needed to take out a facsist regime.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»How bad does it have to g...