Shocking visit to America

[Pototan]

Those of you who have read my past posts know that I live most of the year (50 weeks) in the Central Philippines. I am retired, 71 years old and have been married to a 68-year-old Filipina for over 20 years.

The other 2 weeks of the year I come back to Boston. I get a medical checkup, do my taxes and see some old friends. Also, as much as I love Iloilo City in the Philippines, Boston has some very good restaurants. Capital Grill for Steak, the Warf for Lobster and the local Italian Restaurant.

Well, anyway, the conversations with my contemporaries have been disheartening. I concede that white men without a college education, over 55 years old and their white wives of the same age are a specific demographic that's Trump cultists. I also concede that they were for Trump in 2016 and 2020, so there's no net gain. In addition, this is the Boston area and their votes in Massachusetts make no significant difference. But many of these people (75% for Trump and 25% for Biden) are OK with a dictatorship. I don't want to recount all the conversations I've had because it depresses me.

I can't wait to get back to my home in the Philippines. I leave the US on Wednesday.

[Arthur_Frain]

1. You make me wonder.

I was in Guam for a while in the 90s, and the common wisdom was that the Phillipines had better medical care than the mainland and for pennies on the dollar. But you go to Boston.

Are you telling me I was had?

[Pototan]

23. I still pay for Medicare

and since I'm in the US, I may as well make my appointment for my physical with my long-time doctor.

I have a doctor in the Philippines, but so far, I only need her to write my prescriptions.

I've seen some surgeries done for fellow family members in Iloilo and the results have been very good for them.

[Think. Again.]

2. Hopefully, none of our politics here....

...will interfere with the attention you should be giving to your "home" politics.

Thankfully, DU is a place with a lot of opportunity for folks from around the world to read about and offer their outside opinion on our American political life, but even better, to be able to share their home country's political and cultural life with us!

Looking forward to hearing about your firsthand experiences back "home"!

[Nittersing]

3. ?

[Think. Again.]

5. The poster lives in the Philippines.

[yardwork]

6. So an American citizen who lives abroad doesn't count?

Lots of Americans live all or most of the time in other countries. That doesn't mean they are any less American.

In fact, it can provide a valuable perspective that is informative to those of us living in the States. There are several very active DUers who live abroad. I enjoy their perspectives and insights.

I'll go further. Many Americans would benefit from living in other countries for a while.

[Think. Again.]

10. Everyone on the planet "counts"...

...unless someone is forced to live out of the country for some reason, I assume it's their choice (I've strongly considered it myself at times), and yes, I do understand it's very difficult to formally renounce a U.S. citizenship, the poster themself speaks about how rotten it is for them to have to be here 2 weeks out of the year as required by citizen law (other than a few tasty restaurants!) and of course having to pay American taxes is a big complaint from ex-pats.

As I mentioned, I also appreciate the outside perspective of anyone living outside the U.S. like this poster and I even more appreciate the firsthand information and discussions on how things are in their home country.

[bdamomma]

16. And some of

those DU'ers who do live outside of the US, vote, I am one of those. And I'm proud that I do VOTE.

[Pototan]

24. My wife and I still vote in the US

I have a place in America to live (a relative's house). I pay taxes in the US and pay for Medicare.

I figure if I pay federal and state taxes on my Social Security, pension and annuity, I have a right to vote and express my opinion.

I kinda remember an old saying "no taxation without representation."

[GoneOffShore]

44. If you have the energy and time, you can get involved with Democrats Abroad

Here's a link to the Philippines chapter.

[Think. Again.]

29. Yes, as I mentioned...

...I believe it's very difficult to fully renounce a U.S. citizen and relieve oneself of the burden of being taxed in a country that one has no other interest in.

And yes, if one IS going to be taxed, one should vote to participate in how those taxes are used, but other than that, the choice to opt-out of the ramifications of the political activities in the U.S. is made when one chooses to live their life elsewhere.

[GoneOffShore]

43. Except we don't 'opt out'. What happens in the US affects every American citizen, no matter where

They happen to live.

I'm an American citizen, born in the US, paying US taxes, and, because it is my right and responsibility, voting in every election.
I am registered to vote in PA, lived there until 2018 when I moved to France. Because I am a US citizen, I still have the right, obligation, and privilege to vote from abroad. Please understand that some Americans live abroad. There are over 7 million of us.
And because US election results affect me, and the other 7 million people living abroad, we will continue to make sure that our rights and yours as American citizens, are not abridged.

Democrats Abroad is very active, in GOTV efforts, phone banking, etc.

[Think. Again.]

46. I understand...

...that your personal connection to America runs deep, I respect that, you still care about us.

But you can't deny that your life is now in another country and the day-to-day ramifications of our pilitical life here do not affect you in any way as deeply as it affects the residents of the U.S.

I believe that non-citizen residents of the U.S. should have a right to vote in local and state elections specifically because those elections affect their everyday life as legal residents. On the other hand, I feel that non-residents applying their hand in the political actions of lands they no longer live in is basically reverse colonialism.

That's why elected representations are (supposed to be) residents of the area they represent, and that's why ex-residents have no say in the governmental or social actions of the towns and counties they grew up in but left as adults.

Yes, you have a right to input on how your U.S. tax money is used, but when it comes to decisions about our society's political life here in the states, you have clearly made a choice to leave that behind.

[GoneOffShore]

47. Alrighty then.

Tax policy affects those of us who live abroad, as do environmental policies, trade policies, foreign policy, et al.

Sounds like you're saying that once we move abroad, and some don't do it permanently, we shouldn't have any say at all.

'Reverse colonialism'? Please.

[Think. Again.]

48. You're intentionally misrepresenting what I said...

I clearly did not say that ex-pats should have no say at all, and I clearly did say that as long as anyone is taxed in America they have a right to have input on tax policy.

[GoneOffShore]

49. If I'm taxed, I have a right to have input on ANY policies that affect me.

And that includes foreign policy, environmental, et al.

[Think. Again.]

50. You're saying that non-citizen legal residents...

...should have full federal election voting rights because they pay federal taxes.

[Pototan]

57. That's not the case but I favor that

Green card holders can own property, pay local taxes, pay social security and Medicare. I absolutely think they should be able to vote in every election.

Will that ever happen? Probably very unlikely.

[Think. Again.]

62. We agree on that...

I am also in favor of global citizenship for all rather than individual countries, with residency determining local civic responsibilities but that isn't the way it is and as you say, that's very unlikely.

[Pototan]

64. Here's my belief

I should have a say in any governmental entity that requires me to give them money (taxes).

[Think. Again.]

65. And as I said in my post, I agree...

...that you should have a say in how that money is spent.

[LiveToLurk]

60. Mr. Superior Pants! Feel better now?

Read this thread and had to laugh at your responses - little backhanded innuendos with "quotation marks" to highlight how you are so much more of a citizen of the USA than others. Guess you felt you needed to put someone in their place?

So... just so I understand - you are saying that even though a person is a full US citizen, born here, lived and worked here for over 60 - 65+ years, paid taxes, raised a family, owns property here - once they move overseas they immediately are less of a citizen and should have less rights? That's what it sounds like. Oh and also - you can't complain anymore about republicans and you can't like anything in the US better than in the other country you are living in - like "restaurants" and "meals" - correct?

Very, very shortsighted "opinion" I would say (but hey - that's just my opinion). But if I were you, I would "Think. Again." - just a little bit and get off the high horse.

[Think. Again.]

61. I'll simplify it for you...

When you leave a relationship, do you still have a say in where the other person goes out to dinner?

[LiveToLurk]

68. Really?

That's not making it simple, that's a major false equivalence.

Here's how your simple explanation would make sense......
If the original poster of this thread came to the US from a foreign country on a work visa - worked his time here - then went back home - then your explanation would make sense.

[Think. Again.]

70. Fair enough...

...by they way, did you remember to send their meal plans to your parents and/or kids?

[betsuni]

63. "reverse colonialism"

[JanMichael]

67. Better yet taxation without representation. Seems like the attitude.

[Baitball Blogger]

4. What makes them think that a dictator won't take their guns away?

[Irish_Dem]

7. The cult assumes they will be exempt from draconian laws.

They think laws are to protect and enrich them.
And to control and punish others.

[bdamomma]

15. Oh,

they wouldn't be exempt that is for sure.

[Irish_Dem]

21. Of course they will not be exempt.

Not even the billionaires who are funding Trump.

They are fools.

[Mr. Mustard 2023]

25. No Doubt...

...Putin requires his 50% tithe from Russian oligarchs. Dear Leaders' always get their cut of everything. If it were to happen, give the Deadbeat Republicon a few years, he'll begin to demand payments for his approval. After all, he'll be in charge of everything.

Wonder where good old Republicon George W. Bush is these days. After all "Freedom Was on the March" under him. Why isn't dismal failure George W. Bush leading the way to protect our freedom?

We have to beat MAGA big and hard this election. Time to go all in.

[Irish_Dem]

30. Here is how it works with Putin and fascist leaders:

It is always the same playbook.

The fascist leader uses the billionaires, the oligarchs, to fund his rise to power.
He does this with flattery and promises.

The wealthy think they bought themselves a puppet and are in the catbird's seat.

Then when the fascist leader has power and is dictator for life, he demands
a big cut of their wealth. To refuse means some dire consequences.

Oligarchs who don't play ball lose a lot more than their money.

[bdamomma]

38. Irish_Dem

They get pushed out of windows, and get poisoned!

[Irish_Dem]

40. yep

[durablend]

34. GWB is stumping for McCormick in PA

Why isn't dismal failure George W. Bush leading the way to protect our freedom?

Does that answer your question?

[shrike3]

8. He'll be "their" dictator. He'll only hurt "the right people."

[Harker]

22. As when I was six, and thought The Wolfman and The Creature from the Black Lagoon

would be my friends, and wouldn't hurt me.

[Mr. Mustard 2023]

27. Yep, those who agree with him...

...that day, no matter how it may hurt them or contradictory it may be from a previous "directive" from Dear Leader.

[Cosmocat]

9. This is the result of people allowing themselves to marinate in right wing hate media

for many decades.

They have worn them down, broken down their sense of reason and decency with the endless barrage of evil liberal boogyman bullshit.

They evil liberal boogyman is the sum of all that is evil in the world, they are victims to this scurge and any and everything is justified in this life and death battle.

It really is what the Nazis did with Jews starting in the 1920s.

While they might otherwise be good and decent people, it is a choice to allow yourself to buy into it.

[erronis]

18. Speaking only for yourself. I, and many others, welcome others perspectives.

[Pototan]

26. Even if I don't ever come back

I still pay taxes and vote in America.

I choose to live in my wife's country most of the year. After all, she lived in the US for 20 years, now we'll spend the next 20 in her country.

You see, we're equals.

[niyad]

36. That was nasty, and completely unecessary.

[BannonsLiver]

12. Toodle-oo!

🙄

[bdamomma]

13. Geez, Boston of all places

where you would think they would defend democracy. Sad, are all these people brainwashed into thinking a dictatorship is better than a democracy??? that is really sad, and to think that they would really want to live like that with no freedoms.

GOTV

[Pototan]

31. As I said, the Demographic is Trump cult

Remember, Trump still gets at least 33% in even the bluest of states and areas.

[brooklynite]

14. As someone who grew up in the Philippines in the Marcos era...

I saw plenty of people who weren’t overly concerned about the loss of “democracy”

[Boomerproud]

17. Have a safe trip home. If you're having these conversations in Boston...

That is frightening to me. I'll be 68 next week and am single with no options if the worst happens. I sincerely wish you and your wife the best.

[Pototan]

32. Thank you...

...it seems easy to avoid Trump talk in the Philippines. It's impossible to avoid it here.

I'm not one to start the Trump conversations, but I won't let a comment I hear go by unchallenged.

[DENVERPOPS]

19. Sadly, much like most Evangelicals

They want the "Eternal Parent", don't want to be stressed with thinking for themselves, and want a tyrant/dictator to run every facet of their lives...........They want a "Supreme Being" right here on earth, not just an "imaginary companion"

The Repubs figured out that they were all easily led, and glommed on to them for the easy votes.......

[malthaussen]

20. Had lobster bisque at the Capital Grille in Pittsburgh recently.

It was outstanding.

-- Mal

[Pototan]

28. Going to the capital grill in Burlington Mass. tonight.

Last edited Mon Apr 15, 2024, 08:34 AM - Edit history (1)

Lobster appetizer, followed by steak for the main course.

[JoseBalow]

33. I often wonder if they would be OK with someone else as dictator

Sure, of course they are fine with their cult leader as dictator. But what about a different republican like a Johnson or Haley or Desantis, for example? Surely they wouldn't be OK if a Democrat were to be dictator, but what about some libertarian douche like Paul, or a woman, or some token black MAGA shill?

What they want is the King drumpf of their fantasies, not the reality of what that would actually be. And certainly not anyone else on the principle of it.

MAGA cultists are the dumbest people on the planet, just stupid asf.

[niyad]

35. Please have a very safe journey.

[Pototan]

37. Thank you

but whenever somebody tells me to have a safe trip home, I always respond "it really ain't up to me, it's up to the pilot."

[betsuni]

39. But why was it shocking when they were for Trump in 2016 and 2020?

[Pototan]

41. I anticipated this question

Trump support in the 2016 and 2020 elections were all professed before Jan.6, 2021. The elections were not quite normal, but they did not reach the point that I was shocked by Trump supporters' opinions. They were brainwashed and racist, but I've encountered that type of attitude in many elections, including pre-Trump.

The shocking part are the amount of people I know that are accepting of an authoritarian American government headed up by Trump as a dictator. I never had heard a single person I know talk that way before. Being away for over a year, the Biden issue of saving Democracy did not register with some people I spoke to.

Now, to be clear, those who accepted a Trump dictatorship were a minority, but it was more than one or two. I'm 71 years old and I never directly encountered anyone who would say out loud that a dictator was OK in America.

I found that attitude shocking.

[betsuni]

66. I guess I just assume that most who couldn't see Trump for what he is in 2016 wouldn't be that

bothered by anything he did, even Jan. 6. There were those fun videos of animals seeing Trump on TV and becoming upset. Children and animals know.

[Sympthsical]

42. I was in the rural Midwest most of last week

Not once did I hear anyone's political opinions.

I must be blessed. I'm the only person on the Internet who leaves the house and isn't having political conversations all over the place.

I am truly the favored of God.

[DET]

45. Be Careful What You Wish For

Imagine this scenario…

Trump picks Tim Scott as his VP. Trump is elected, but suffers a debilitating stroke/heart attack/whatever before he can take office. Scott - a Black, possibly gay man - steps up to the plate as President. Can you imagine how these racist, homophobic POS would react?

[JenniferJuniper]

51. Worcester has better restaurants.

[pwb]

52. Seems like a small snapshot

to make a judgement from.

[maxsolomon]

53. I don't think you should have been shocked.

But it sure is depressing.

Good luck with Bongbong.

[Pototan]

54. Ferdinand Marcos Jr.

is no more like his father than RFK Jr. or Ronald Reagan Jr. are like theirs.

BBM has made the Philippines a very reliable ally. Much better than Duterte and BBM has a great relationship with Biden.

[maxsolomon]

55. Great.

Good to know.

[Pototan]

59. I thought of your post

when I read this story today:



© Provided by Inquirer
MANILA, Philippines — President Ferdinand “Bongbong” Marcos Jr. on Monday said the country needs a “critical” press, in contrast to his father’s rule when media crackdown was enforced.

Marcos made the remark during his attendance to the 50th anniversary celebration of the Foreign Correspondents Association of the Philippines (Focap) held at the Manila Hotel.

It’s the first time in nine years that a Filipino chief executive attended the Focap’s annual presidential forum as former president Rodrigo Duterte skipped the same event during his entire presidency.

Full story:
https://www.msn.com/en-ph/news/other/focap-forum-marcos-says-ph-needs-a-critical-press/ar-BB1lEj5G?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=DCTS&cvid=458d9c8d48ca4397b9d5882793021bc7&ei=20

[Hekate]

72. Very encouraging. Thanks

[getagrip_already]

56. As a resident Masshole, I feel your pain, but we are not all a red cap asshats

Sure, there are trump fans among us. There have always been fascists and racists here, especially in some neighborhoods in Boston (remember that iconic image of a white man impaling a black man in a three piece suit with an american flag in the 70's over bussing?).

But the more sane among us still outnumber them. We still carry the day.

So have hope, and do try to find or expand a new circle of friends.

[Demovictory9]

58. GOP have a grip on older whites

[Sky Jewels]

69. Amurika: Come for the gun massacres and obesity,

stay for the rule by oligarchy and authoritarian Christofascist hellscape.

[Hekate]

71. Thanks for your viewpoint. I have some close friends who have lived overseas for long stretches...

I think the work they’ve engaged in aligns with what they have done and would have done in the US, if they had remained here the whole time (teaching, environmental projects, self-sufficiency projects in the local community, that kind of thing) . They remain American. I don’t know what that one poster is on about regarding “giving up US citizenship” —

In any case, as you know, DU includes many overseas Americans. I think their and your experiences enrich us as a community.

Enjoy your visit to Boston, and best of luck back in Iloilo.

[GenThePerservering]

73. Ta, then.