We are watching history in the making: the GOP is breaking apart.

[Irish_Dem]

Last edited Fri May 17, 2024, 06:50 AM - Edit history (1)

We are looking at the break up of a long standing US political party.
The tectonic plates are shifting right in front of us.

The GOP has been taken over by MAGA and international political forces.
They have become a crime syndicate, not a political party.

The GOP has broken into two pieces:

1. Those who are fine with being criminals to obtain power and wealth and aligning with sinister foreign powers.

2. Those who cannot swallow that direction. In a recent comment BumRush called this group "the deer in the headlights" group, they are paralyzed and don't know what to do.

But we see signs that this deer in the headlight GOP group is waking up, up and joining forces with the Dem party. We see many former GOP strategists and operatives speaking out against Trump and the Magas. And in Bum Rush's OP, we see the GOP aligning with Dems to support a Dem candidate.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=3241728

Edit to add this quote from BumRush (with her permission) which is an excellent summary of how the GOP got to this point: "The Civil Rights Act of 1964 was a catalyst that spawned a revolutionary ideology change among many southern Democrats dubbed "Dixiecrats", coupled with the rise of Goldwater and a nascent Republican party who welcomed them, the election of the first black President of the U.S. in 2008 became a further catalyst for the Republican party to begin a self-destruct sequence as a functioning party, making it nothing more than the landing place for bigoted nativist extremists. That then made it ripe for embracing fascism as a means to remain in power."

[malaise]

1. We told you this was coming

Get the popcorn.
Still watch the plutocrats and oligarchs.

[Irish_Dem]

2. Yes we have seen it coming.

But the GOP congress showing up and supporting a criminal who is on trial for his many crimes was the final blow.

The oligarchs are backing MAGA.

[malaise]

3. The word is stunning

For their show of support for the criminal

[Irish_Dem]

9. Yes totally gobsmacking.

They left no doubt about being a criminal enterprise and mob organization.

[Roy Rolling]

30. I made this 5 years ago

This explains it. If the reference is obscure, look up RCA. 😏

[Irish_Dem]

33. You made a chilling prediction of things to come.

It is far worse than we could have imagined.

Oh yes I remember this RCA advertisement.

[Wednesdays]

72. Interesting story about the dog depicted in the original advertisement

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nipper

It is difficult to say how the idea came to me beyond the fact that it suddenly occurred to me that to have my dog listening to the phonograph, with an intelligent and rather puzzled expression, and call it 'His Master's Voice' would make an excellent subject. We had a phonograph and I often noticed how puzzled he was to make out where the voice came from. It certainly was the happiest thought I ever had.
— Francis Barraud

[Irish_Dem]

82. Thanks.

I always like to hear how smart people come up with great ideas in science and art.

[Captain Zero]

153. The RCA dog's name was Nipper.

Destroyed by Jack Welch and Pete Peterson 1987. When GE bought RCA and proceeded to slice and dice it like a couple of mobsters.

Fuck Jack Welch.
Fuck Pete Peterson.

[malaise]

35. Freaking perfect

😀

[jaxexpat]

42. "The oligarchs are backing MAGA."

Of course they are. Their inherited "immunity" is at stake.

They foolishly harbor no doubt that they'll retain control over the MAGAt tempest. A typical indicator of eminent disaster is when those who, by no merit except fortunate birth, have so many seeds at their disposal that they blithely sow them into the wind. Will many be surprised when they, inevitably, reap the whirlwind*.

*Nobody liked Hosea. He was a spoil sport know-it-all, but his words are well remembered, even now, long after his detractors are forgotten dust.

[Irish_Dem]

60. The oligarchs desire more power and wealth.

And control. They will align with those that help them achieve those goals.

Yes the oligarchs are damaging the world. They think they are immune from climate change and chaos. They won’t be.

[PatSeg]

84. Which is rather bizarre

As even the wealthy tend to do better under Democrats than republicans. Truly, everyone does better when everyone does better, but they just can't see it. Evidently the rich are not as smart as people think they are.

Greed is often mindless and impulsive. It is a disease, not a financial plan.

[Irish_Dem]

92. Relentless pursuit of power and wealth is an addiction.

Yes it is not rational.
It is destructive to everyone.

Even the wealthy will not be happy with a world taken over by autocrats
and climate change.

These people have holes in their souls and no amount of money or power
will fill those holes. But they destroy so much trying to do so.

[PatSeg]

114. Exactly

It is time that ordinary people stop being in awe of the super wealthy. They are not financial geniuses, they are seriously defective human beings. We don't idolize compulsive eaters or alcoholics, we see them as damaged people who need help.

[Irish_Dem]

116. Yes capitalistic adoration of the wealthy needs to be rethought.

They are proving to be a very destructive force in the world.

[PatSeg]

120. Yes, too often the poor and middle class

vote against their own interests, because inside they are millionaires who are waiting for their windfall. So many still believe the Horatio Alger myth and 'rags to riches' can happen to anyone.

And of course, every young woman will be rescued by her Prince Charming some day.

[Irish_Dem]

122. Yes Americans have been voting against their self interests for a long time.

They buy the gaslighting, and also their racism and hatred overrides every thing else.

Women's lives will not be a fairy tale, but a nightmare.

[Metaphorical]

107. The Autocratic Personality

the psychopath, and the narcissist overlap significantly. They all require adulation, confirmation of their intrinsic worth, and the presumption that they are better than those around them. They view themselves as predators who live off the prey of the sheep around them, and they assume that anyone who is not also a comparable predator to be sheep.

These are all extroverted dark traits. Everyone has some manifestation of these, but usually they are tempered as we grow older. Introverts have dark traits as well - nihilism, passive-aggressiveness, asocial behavior, neuroticism and anxiety are all part and parcel of the negative introverted set. For every architect or professor there is the conspiracy theorist or mad genius. Overall, you find more introverts as Democrats than Republicans, and far more extroverts as Republicans rather than Democrats. Introverts are also usually much more self-aware. I've known a number of CEOs over the years, and industry is full of extroverted narcissists, while there are very few introvert CEOs (Bill Gates, arguably, is the only one who comes to mind, and I say that only because I've met the man socially a few times over the years).

I think that extroverts and introverts both can be quite intelligent, but the extroverted personality is much more inclined to seek power, riches, and other manifestations of success, and this can often come at the expense of more intellectual pursuits (or deeper self-insight). When combined with a strong intellect extroverts can be extraordinary leaders, but take a sub-par intellect and what you typically get is the narcissist or authoritarian, especially when highly judgmental.

Many extroverts see money simply as a way of keeping score. It's the score they're after, the tangible indicator of their success. I think this is different from greed, which often is driven by insecurity.

[PatSeg]

115. "It's the score they're after, the tangible

indicator of their success." Yes, I don't think it is necessarily the money as much as the number or "score". For many, it is more like winning a game, a game that never ends.

And for others, insecurity seems to be the driver behind their unfathomable greed. For them, there will never be enough of anything.

[Irish_Dem]

123. Yes but the score keeping has an addictive quality to it, like greed does.

[Old Crank]

148. Here are some numbers about the wealth divide

Since 1990 the only group of Americans to get more of the pie have been the upper 10%.

You can see this manifested in the salary and wealth distribution graphs. Where average is skewd much higher than median.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States

[Irish_Dem]

157. I have been saying the US is an oligarchy for some time.

Seems obvious doesn't it?

[Metaphorical]

166. The US has been an oligarchy since the 1880s, with the rise of corporate personhood

The primary difference between an aristocracy and an oligarchy is that an aristocracy has (in theory) a requirement of fealty to a king, and responsibility for a feal region is passed down to the child of an aristocrat (usually the eldest son, but that's changing). A dukedom or earldom is, in effect, a corporation.

Colonial America started out as a collection of corporations. The idea of a representative democracy would only emerge later, primarily based on the urging of Benjamin Franklin, and modelled largely by the House of Commons in England (which in turn had its origins in the Anglo-Saxon moots). Even in England, suffrage only existed for landowners until about 1820.

[apnu]

156. " The oligarchs are backing MAGA."

Of course they are. Oligarchs need a gullible and economically starved base of supporters to maintain power. MAGA is that.

[Emile]

18. I planted 8 rolls of popcorn in the garden. Should

be well stocked up this fall.

[Irish_Dem]

19. I'd enjoy it more if it was just a movie.

Would be one hell of a story.

[hot2na]

29. No one would have beleived it 10 years ago

Or even 5 years ago.

[Irish_Dem]

32. The script would have been rejected as too improbable.

We took our democracy for granted.

[hadEnuf]

66. These fuckers have been at it since 1932.

Most of America became complacent "it can never happen here" people long ago.

[Irish_Dem]

67. Yes the year FDR was elected.

The GOP and wealthy declared war on the country.

[Codifer]

144. ... and they plotted a coup.

It involved some powerful capitalists, the American Legion and a retired Marine Corps general and two time winner of the Congressional Medal of Honor named Smedley Butler.

Thing was, Smedley was a patriot and turned them all in. Someone decided not to prosecute... that was a mistake.

[Irish_Dem]

149. As always, wealth, power and status give white males a pass.

Yes big mistake.

[malaise]

36. LOL

😂

[KS Toronado]

38. Does watering make them soggy?

[littlemissmartypants]

111. I use a light drizzling of Lea and Perrins on mine.

It is a little soggy in places but oh so tasty.

❤️

[tetedur]

4. They have lost their minds. Their faith in the sham the orange one has created is 100%.

Their purpose is to weaken the United States by propagandizing the American people with lies. They have succeeded.

[Irish_Dem]

11. They know exactly what they are doing.

They will take any steps necessary to achieve their goals of permanent power and unlimited wealth.
Even if they have to become a criminal enterprise and sell out to our enemies.

Yes they have been quite successful in damaging and weakening the US and hurting the American people.

[Think. Again.]

52. They haven't succeeded yet.

[bdamomma]

141. This is sickening

this whole situation. That orange thug criminal will destroy the country if he gets in again. He projects too much hate and division, and I wonder if we will rise up and vote in record numbers to stop all this.

[Walleye]

5. They've been brainwashed all their lifves, they think God won't like them if they vote for Democrats

[Irish_Dem]

12. They must demonize various groups as part of their power grab.

They must have out groups to attack, to justify their draconian power plays.
And appealing to the dark underbelly of human nature, selling hatred and violence
gets them votes.

Divide and conquer is a long time political strategy that works.

[Evolve Dammit]

50. In 2015 the swastikas and pro-Drumph graffiti started showing up.

I knew we were in trouble from his very first “rallies” and Ingraham’s nazi salute at the Cleveland convention. Pence was a Manafort pick. I wonder if he had actually been hanged if that would have changed the equation
?

[Irish_Dem]

59. Pence being hanged would have changed nothing for MAGAs.

Except to empower them even more.

And it would have given Trump a reason to declare rights to use emergency powers.

Manafort is a Russian asset and yes he chose Pence.

[Evolve Dammit]

61. Think we the people will ever see an unredacted

mueller report? Losing hope here

[Irish_Dem]

69. Why do you think it is not being released?

Why might that be?

[Evolve Dammit]

132. Guessing it contains incriminating evidence on folks that don't want that evidence to be public? What's

your take?

[Sky Jewels]

101. One of the things that was the most weirdly shocking to me was a semi obscure incident.

Mary Hart, the former "America's Sweetheart" type host of Entertainment Tonight, flashed not one but two white power signs at a Trump rally in July of 2020. I remember watching her as a kid/teen in the 80s, never dreaming she'd turn out to be a Nazi sympathizer. That really freaked me out for some reason.

[Irish_Dem]

118. Because it is like "Invasion of the Body Snatchers."

Normal people turn out to be MAGA cult members.
Racist, bigots, hate filled people.

[Sky Jewels]

145. Exactly.

It is like a horror movie.

[Evolve Dammit]

133. Good observation. I had no idea, but I think it is waaaay more widespread than "we" know.

[Walleye]

64. Putin loves it

[Irish_Dem]

71. Putin and Xi are delighted at the success of their war against the US.

It has gone much better than they expected.
And it didn't cost them that much money or effort.

[Marcus IM]

91. Yep. Despite the puffery about strength America is weak.

Americans want strong leaders. Because they are afraid.

[Irish_Dem]

96. Trump is an audit of the entire US government.

We are finding much of it was held together with only tradition and wishful thinking.

The GOP, China and Russia found the US weak spots and drove a mack truck through those spots.

[SomedayKindaLove]

127. And the more Americans can be made to fear

The more they are owned by their leaders.

PS don’t forget immigrants are coming to take your job, commit crimes against your family, make veterans homeless and eat your hamburgers.

[Silent3]

6. Will it happen fast enough?

The Republican party should have fallen apart when Trump won the nomination is 2016... and many other occasions after that.

[Irish_Dem]

13. This pivotal time in US history is still unfolding.

So we don't know the answer to your question, Silent3.

We may not have hit bottom yet.
Americans may have to crash and burn some more before they wake up.
That is human nature.

[CrispyQ]

56. "You are at your best when things are at their worst." Starman

I'm not sure I believe that & I hope we don't test it, but it's not looking good for homo sapiens.

Democracy's just going to get harder & harder to hang onto. The oligarchs see that this is the last best chance to strip the planet of anything & everything that still has value. I think they are disgusted with Trump & they find him vulgar & uncouth, but if he's the man who can topple the system so they can swarm in & grab it all, they're in.

[Irish_Dem]

62. Yes we don't know how this story will end.

Humans seem headed for a dire collision course. Climate change and global war and upheaval.

Yes the oligarchs and autocrats are hell bent on grabbing power and all of the planet’s resources.
By any means possible.

History has shown humans rising to emergencies and crises. Can we do it this time?

We don’t know.

[bucolic_frolic]

7. A time of peril and great uncertainty

Fox News viewers will believe in the rigged trial rhetoric, the pro-Life insanity, Joe dementia lies, and Congressional investigations. We still have election deniers to fend off, and Insurrection the Sequel to conquer.

How hard will Biden drive the election bus in October? If well received we could do well, but the Senate is a worry. And we need control, not slim majorities. How can the judiciary ever be cleansed? A business-fascist who cheated to gain office and in hock to foreign dictators put 1/3 of the judiciary in power. These are illegitimate judges. A SCOTUS was stolen by Mitch. Grand larceny in plain sight and no one could to anything.

Trump may yet make more thunder on the campaign trail. Biden is competent, patriotic, of sound mind, but he doesn't inspire the un-woke and is a roll of the dice with independents.

We may face 2-4 more years of muddled government, barely escaping fascism. If we're lucky.

[Irish_Dem]

16. We are in one of the most dangerous times in US history.

A major political party has become a criminal enterprise and aligned with foreign powers who wish to destroy us. All three branches of government and the media have been contaminated.

Our democracy faces grave risk.

Yes. We have to face reality, the GOP could be successful, rigged elections and more insurrection.
More draconian laws and installation of a fascist regime.

Biden is one of the few people who can guide us through our perilous times.
But he is only one person.

At some point it is up to We The People to make a decision about the country's future.
We may have to suffer more hardship for people to wake up.

We are only in the middle of the story, we don't know the ending yet.

[Kablooie]

8. Yes but until the electorate realizes this they will remain in power.

The electorate seems astoundingly ignorant of whom they put in power.
They elect the same useless buffoons over and over again so the breakup of the Rs is not as consequential as it should be.

[Irish_Dem]

21. Sometimes people have to hit rock bottom to wake up.

I don't know how bad it has to get for people to see reason.

But we have a group of Americans who think it is fine to install fascism and align with Putin.

It is very consequential now because we are moving from ignorant GOP buffoon leadership
to ruthless and dangerous criminal leadership.

[Lonestarblue]

10. I actually think the party is just coalescing around its more radical leaders.

This week WaPo published an opinion piece by three retired Republican senators who do not support Trump but just could not say publicly that the only option for decent Republicans is voting for Biden. Few Republicans have had the courage to publicly denounce Trump, even those he can’t hurt. If you look at the red states and what those political leaders are doing, nothing good is happening, and those are the people who will take on federal roles in the future. The major blocs of the Republican Party are the white evangelicals, the white supremacists, and the suburbanites who may fall in either of the first two groups but often just want to avoid taxes so support Republicans. I don’t see any one of those groups leaving the Republican Party. Maybe it’s just Texas. And Alabama.

[Irish_Dem]

22. Yes but we can argue this is leading up to the split.

The radical nature of the current leadership is breaking up the party.

But yes the radical criminal GOP may gain much more power and install
minority rule.

Just because the GOP breaks apart does not mean they lose power.

[surfered]

14. We are not out of the woods yet.

[Irish_Dem]

23. Exactly.

The radical GOP can still install a fascist regime.

[mucifer]

15. Unfortunately more people are being brainwashed. Also, I think more people won't

vote for democrats and will stay home.

People don't usually vote for the party in power if they can't afford rent, food and transportation. People are blaming President Biden for all of this. They won't care about democracy until they lose it.

[Irish_Dem]

24. Yes if the people vote out democracy it will be a steep learning curve for them.

A very painful one.

[gordianot]

17. Unfortunately the GOP is also breaking apart more than their Party.

They are breaking the American Constitution. As Fascists maybe they can drop the title Republican.

[Irish_Dem]

25. Yes the GOP is taking a wrecking ball to our country.

I don't know if they will keep the GOP name if they install fascist rule.

[wnylib]

34. A historical corallary on party names.

Nazis were the National Socialist Party. Hitler took control of the party, turning it from left wing socialism to right wing fascism without changing the name. People who are unaware of that think thst fascism is a left wing political ideology.

The word "republic" means a representative democracy. Trump has turned the party fascist but they keep the name of Republican. Some deluded Republicans actually think that a republic is not a democracy and therefore claim that the US is not and never has been a democracy. Based on that belief, they think that destroying the idea and practice of democracy is a good thing because in their minds, democracy means socialist which means fascist. So, fighting democracy becomes "preservation of freedom."

I have encountered numerous people online and in person who think that way. It is an uphill battle to explain to them the real meanings and history of the terms democracy, republic, socialist, fascist, Nazi, left wing and right wing.

[Celerity]

113. The NSDAP (the Nazis) and its precursor, the DAP, were not 'left wing' socialist, although they did

employ some populist anti–big business, anti-bourgeois, and anti-capitalist rhetoric (see the article below) early on (but focused to a significant degree on the falsely exaggerated Jewish elements of control of those early targets). They did not believe in a class-based struggle, which is what most of the left was organised around.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Party

The Nazi Party, officially the National Socialist German Workers' Party (German: Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei  or NSDAP), was a far-right political party in Germany active between 1920 and 1945 that created and supported the ideology of Nazism. Its precursor, the German Workers' Party (Deutsche Arbeiterpartei; DAP), existed from 1919 to 1920. The Nazi Party emerged from the extremist German nationalist ("Völkisch nationalist" ), racist and populist Freikorps paramilitary culture, which fought against communist uprisings in post–World War I Germany. The party was created to draw workers away from communism and into völkisch nationalism. Initially, Nazi political strategy focused on anti–big business, anti-bourgeois, and anti-capitalist rhetoric; it was later downplayed to gain the support of business leaders. By the 1930s, the party's main focus shifted to antisemitic and anti-Marxist themes. The party had little popular support until the Great Depression, when worsening living standards and widespread unemployment drove Germans into political extremism.

snip

History

Origins and early years: 1918–1923

The Nazi Party grew out of smaller political groups with a nationalist orientation that formed in the last years of World War I. In 1918, a league called the Freier Arbeiterausschuss für einen guten Frieden (Free Workers' Committee for a good Peace) was created in Bremen, Germany. On 7 March 1918, Anton Drexler, an avid German nationalist, formed a branch of this league in Munich. Drexler was a local locksmith who had been a member of the militarist Fatherland Party during World War I and was bitterly opposed to the armistice of November 1918 and the revolutionary upheavals that followed.

Drexler followed the views of militant nationalists of the day, such as opposing the Treaty of Versailles, having antisemitic, anti-monarchist and anti-Marxist views, as well as believing in the superiority of Germans whom they claimed to be part of the Aryan "master race" (Herrenvolk). However, he also accused international capitalism of being a Jewish-dominated movement and denounced capitalists for war profiteering in World War I. Drexler saw the political violence and instability in Germany as the result of the Weimar Republic being out-of-touch with the masses, especially the lower classes. Drexler emphasised the need for a synthesis of völkisch nationalism with a form of economic socialism, in order to create a popular nationalist-oriented workers' movement that could challenge the rise of communism and internationalist politics. These were all well-known themes popular with various Weimar paramilitary groups such as the Freikorps.

snip

On 5 January 1919, Drexler created a new political party and proposed it should be named the "German Socialist Workers' Party", but Harrer objected to the term "socialist"; so the term was removed and the party was named the German Workers' Party (Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, DAP). To ease concerns among potential middle-class supporters, Drexler made clear that unlike Marxists the party supported the middle-class and that its socialist policy was meant to give social welfare to German citizens deemed part of the Aryan race. They became one of many völkisch movements that existed in Germany.

Like other völkisch groups, the DAP advocated the belief that through profit-sharing instead of socialisation Germany should become a unified "people's community" (Volksgemeinschaft) rather than a society divided along class and party lines. This ideology was explicitly antisemitic. As early as 1920, the party was raising money by selling a tobacco called Anti-Semit. From the outset, the DAP was opposed to non-nationalist political movements, especially on the left, including the Social Democratic Party of Germany (SPD) and the Communist Party of Germany (KPD). Members of the DAP saw themselves as fighting against "Bolshevism" and anyone considered a part of or aiding so-called "international Jewry". The DAP was also deeply opposed to the Treaty of Versailles. The DAP did not attempt to make itself public and meetings were kept in relative secrecy, with public speakers discussing what they thought of Germany's present state of affairs, or writing to like-minded societies in Northern Germany.

snip

[wnylib]

140. Thanks for the additional details on the involvement of

the Freikorps militias and nationalism. I did not want to get into the details in my earlier post because the mix of nationalism with socialism in post WWI Germany has a complex history.

Socialism was gaining strength in Germany even before the First World War, promoting things like retirement pensions, a shorter work day and work week, health care benefits, labor unions, etc. Bismarck acceeded to some of their demands in order to undercut the socialist movement, even though he was a staunch monarchist.

German workers after the First World War still favored the earlier socialist benefits for the working classes. Nationalism came into the picture for parties like the NSDAP because of Germany's defeat in the war and the establishment of the Weimar Republic.

German nationalism was high under Wilhelm II prior to the war and remained high afterward. The German people had received continual reports of German victories and did not know that the military leaders had sued for peace because they were losing.

President Wilson made the establishment of a democratic parliamentarian government a condition of peace. German military commanders agreed, and shifted the blame for the kaiser's abdication and the defeat on the new Weimar Republic, whose founders and leaders were socialist politicians of the Social Democratic Party.

Among the leaders in the Weimar Republic were Jewish politicians like Walther Rathenau. Jews, socialists, and communists were labelled as traitors by ex military leaders and right wing politicians as well as by the Freikorps militias, which were mostly composed of lower ranking soldiers from lower economic means.

There was a large number of Jews in the Army during the war, who were resented by other soldiers based on the usual anti-Semitism in Europe. After the war, they were accused of sabotaging the military.

So the National Socialist Workers Party still retained some earlier views of socialist benefits for workers, but bought into the right wing nationalist accusations of Jews and socialists in the Weimar Republic as traitors who had sold out the German people and cost them the war.

I'm posting from my phone and can't copy and paste sections of other sites very well, but this very long Wikipedia article explains in great detail what I've just posted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stab-in-the-back_myth

[John Shaft]

20. They will take all of us down with them

Like children who hate to lose, they'd rather throw the game and all the pieces on the floor rather than concede that they lost or are wrong.

[Irish_Dem]

27. Make no mistake, they will burn it all down to get what they want.

And if they don't get what they want, they will burn it all down in revenge.

[FailureToCommunicate]

28. Yes. Many of them -now- just want to make (our) world burn.

[Irish_Dem]

31. Yes the GOP is full of ruthless sadistic sociopaths.

Who get off on the destruction and pain they cause.
It makes them happy to do it.

[sop]

26. The GOP has become the Chaos Party.

[Johnny2X2X]

37. Was this written 5 years ago?

Because the GOP broke apart years ago. The few dozen Republicans with a moral compass have been purged long ago, what's left that opposes Trump is Mitt Romney at the Federal level and a few state level politicians. It's the Trump Party and has been for years. They're more united around Trump than Dems are around Biden right now.

[honest.abe]

44. Unfotunately true.

[Irish_Dem]

48. It has been ongoing for some time yes.

And I was aware the GOP would split in half some time ago. But I am not sure people believed it would happen until now.

[Johnny2X2X]

54. It didn't split in half

It split in 97% and 3%. The Party largely became the Trump Party and lost a hand full of people who wanted to still have a democracy in the US.

[Irish_Dem]

68. We don't know the full extent of the MAGA party throughout the US govt.

And amongst the billionaires who wield quite a bit of power.

The numbers don't really matter any more.
The GOP knows it cannot win an honest election.
So gerrymandering and voter suppression, Russian propaganda,
and a corrupt congress and judicial system will go a long way to grabbing power.

It is not about how many Magas exist, but who has the power.
We know from other autocratic countries a small group can control huge populations.

[dlk]

39. When more rational Republicans realized

They no longer had the numbers to win elections fairly, they made the calculation to reached out to RW extremists, and ramped up their voter suppression, in earnest.

Over time, the RW radicals have completely taken over the party to where today, they are openly embracing fascism, and actually parroting Putin’s talking points in the halls of congress, and in the media.

This cancer has now metastasized and the future of our very democracy is seriously threatened.

[Irish_Dem]

55. Yes one of the most perilous times in US history.

For the reasons you cite.

Yes the moderate GOP made a pragmatic decision to align with the MAGAs. They didn’t understand it would be a fatal decision for them.

They didn’t understand MAGA would align with Putin and fascism, then the moderates would be purged.

[dlk]

63. The GOP's malignant need to be in control has caused their downfall

They’ve earned it.

[Irish_Dem]

70. Making a deal with the devil does not always end well.

The moderate GOP learned that lesson.

And the MAGAs may learn that making deals with Trump, Russia and China may not
be a good idea.

[ClearSky24]

40. The world has changed since 2015/2016.

There's some rotten, unseen interference going on in the world since then.

[Irish_Dem]

73. Yes the autocratic cyberwar intensified against the US.

[doc03]

41. If Biden loses this election, we will be seeing that headline about Democrats.

It could go either way, it does not look so good as of now.

[Irish_Dem]

74. Yes Putin and Xi have been working on that strategy as well.

Putin's involvement in the HAMAS war was designed to set up Biden.
Biden has been too clever for Putin and not taken the bait.
The same cannot be said of other people.

Putin and Xi would love nothing more than to smash both US political parties.
Putin vowed to break up the US when he was a young KGB agent.
He blamed the US for the USSR falling apart.
This is his revenge.

[OrlandoDem2]

43. Until the likes of Romney, Christie, Haley, and others stand on the stage with Biden and endorse him this is hogwash.

There are so many who have criticized Trump but still endorse him over Biden because they want one thing - an R in the White House. They want power even if it means taking down America and its government.

Biden MUST win in November 2024 for America to have any hope of shedding the dangerous and poisonous populism of the MAGA Trump cult.

[Irish_Dem]

75. I said the GOP is fractured, that does not mean they become Democrats.

It does not mean they vote for Biden.

Though I think some of them will not vote for Trump.
Some of them might even vote for Biden.

Some of them may form a new party.

We don't yet know the full extent of the GOP damage.

[honest.abe]

45. And yet we could still lose in Nov.

[Irish_Dem]

77. Yes of course we could lose in Nov.

The GOP is fractured, but the MAGAs and Putin will still use underhanded means to
install Trump into the WH.

The PutinGOP has consolidated power across the US government.
And in powerful agencies.

We don't know if they will be successful or not.

[FakeNoose]

46. It should have happened already

Why didn't the Repuke Party explode in 2021, after the famous failed coup attempt? I'm still scratching my head. This Party cannot continue, and it's to the point where the Democrats are no longer able to clean up the Repukes' messes anymore.

[Irish_Dem]

80. Because 2021 whet their appetite.

They saw how very close they came to permanent power.

They were still amateurs in fascist takeover and dictatorship.

It was a dry run.

Yes it has been a long standing tradition that the GOP screws up the country,
backs their limos up to the US Treasury every 8 years, etc.

Then the Dems come in and have to do mop up.

But yes that is going to be more difficult with each GOP draconian law passed.
And Trump and his pals wiping out the US Treasury.

[ShazzieB]

47. I just wish the GOP would hurry up and finish self-destructing already.

I agree that the party is breaking up, but I'm sick of watching this combination of a 3 ring circus, a dumpster fire, and a slow motion train wreck. I wish they would just get it over with, so Congress could get on with governing.

Not to mention, they're on the verge of making a multiply indicted criminal with rapidly advancing dementia their official candidate for the nation's highest office, which is an insult to the American people and an embarrassment to the country in the eyes of the world. And all Biden can do is campaign against him as if he were actually a legitimate candidate rather than a literal joke. How bizarre is that? Words like absurd and ludicrous don't even come close to describing the situation.

Enough already, Republicans! You have put this country through years of sheer insanity. Please just freaking STOP!!!!!

[Irish_Dem]

85. The GOP has been torturing the country and at war with the US for decades.

Starting especially when Gingrich and his ilk went after Clinton in endless pursuit.

Fascist leaders in other countries often appear to be buffoons and jokes.
People underestimate them and don't take them seriously until they cheat their
way into power. Then it suddenly becomes deadly serious.

We don't know if or when the GOP will return to some semblance of normality.
They have been deviant for decades.

[ShazzieB]

108. I know it's been going on for a long time.

But I feel like things took a quantum leap when TSF was elected. All of sudden, things that had been spoken only in the shadows were blasted from the rooftops, and things have only gotten worse sonce.

[Baitball Blogger]

49. I know. But I just got this bad feeling.

The end will not end with a whimper. I hope all Democratic leaders have additional security. Don't forget that before Jan. 6 Insurrection Day, there were Republican elected officials who were trying to bring their weapons into the Capitol.

[Irish_Dem]

86. Yes I agree. Violence is a deliberate GOP strategy.

They ramp up the dangerous rhetoric all the time.
Threaten and bully others.
Demonize others.

It is ugly now and could get uglier before it is all over.

[BumRushDaShow]

51. K&R

[Duncanpup]

53. You're so insightful Irish Dem

Love your posts.

[spanone]

57. It can't happen soon enough.

[JustAnotherGen]

58. I will only believe it

If we take everything in November. I belong to a local women's facebook group (small area in NJ) and I know some of these women. There are idiots that STILL believe both candidates suck . . .

But love Tom Kean Jr. They are showing me who they REALLY are.

I want these assholes brought to heel. Especially after seeing MTG being a little snot in Congress yesterday.

And I'm glad Congress Woman Crockett and AOC push back on her asshole behavior.

[republianmushroom]

65. Not fast enough IMO

[sarisataka]

76. I'll just say i have heard similar

Half a century ago.

[markpkessinger]

78. Don't kid yourself . . .

. . . GOPers, when faced with a choice of standing on principle or aligning with power, will ALWAYS choose the latter.

[Irish_Dem]

88. Some of the GOP cult is peeling off.

Some of them cannot stomach what they are seeing.

[B.See]

79. They aren't"BREAKING APART" and believing so will be

our OWN UNDOING.

On the contrary, under their MAGA fascist agenda to destroy democracy and replace it with their OWN authoritarian OLIGARCHY,

they have become even more solidified, more organized, more radicalized, and more determined.

Their attacks upon democracy occurring in Congress, in the judiciary, and on the state level via nationalistic and supremacist challenges to

Voting Rights, the rights of minorites, consumers' rights, women's rights, the rights to healthcare, and more.

They're working to redefine and rewrite law in their favor and according to their twisted ideology. They're working to rewrite state and the national Constitution.

They're working to further enable secret dark money financing and to obliterate freedom of information and disclosure laws so they can hide what they're up to.

They're attacking the free press even as they use it spread disinformation and right winged, Putin assisted propaganda.

They've set into motion the ability to challenge, contravene, and throw out election results, and have formulated plans on co-opting the FBI, the military, and local law enforcement.

They''re working on obliterating diversity, affirmative action, Black studies, the LGBTQ community, and have plans on the mass deportation, (if not incarceration) of millions.

And some think they are falling apart.

WAKE UP AMERICA!

[Irish_Dem]

89. The GOP breaking apart has nothing to do with MAGA attempts to take power.

They will still be a force to be reckoned with.

But some of the GOP cult members are peeling away.
Which is a good sign.

[B.See]

110. It might be argued that the GOP

as the entity they once claimed to be has 'broken' off from that ideology. That some of their numbers have peeled away from what the party has now become.

But I think it would be a grave miscalculation to believe their current iteration, which for all practical purposes IS the MAGA GOP, is some disfunctionally inept party in disarray.

That their voters aren't united, radicalized, and INCITED.

The similarities in their rhetoric and messaging, from their 'anointed one' to their elected Representatives at the federal and state levels, to their judiciary, and from the pulpits of their churches, is no coincidence.

The similarities in laws being crafted in red states that advance their malevolent minded ideologies and beliefs (as I cited above) is NO coincidence. Nor their methods at undermining and suppressing the vote.

Do not underestimate them or the hate that drives them.

DO unite, DO be equally driven, to rise to the challenge.

[getagrip_already]

81. It may be too late. They dont need a gop. They may not need voters.

If they can successfully corrupt the vote certification process, they don't actually need to win by getting the most votes.

They can win by being certified the winner, or by nobody being certified the winner.

If it goes to the house, the gop chooses the next president.

Actual voters not required. Actual party not required.

[B.See]

83. EXACTLY n/t

[Irish_Dem]

90. Yes MAGA knows it cannot win in honest elections.

Sheer numbers are not needed any longer if they can corrupt the electoral and judicial process.

The point I am making is the some of the GOP cult is peeling away and aligning with Dems.

There is power in this occurrence.

[FHRRK]

87. I agree with getagrip

It is quite possibly too late. We can't have a successful democracy with an ignorant electorate.

Reagan revolution was built on tax cuts and unions (workers) being the issue.

Massive tax cuts at the high end and elimination of Union jobs. How did that work out?

Yet you have media and others pushing for the same, tax cuts for the rich and force low paying jobs.

With that we are one major event away from massive chaos. Electing tRump will be that one major event. Trump pushed through a huge tax cut while eliminating deductions. Net result for us living in high income states, a tax increase, my breakeven point from the Trump tax cuts is basically 700k per year. So pay a bit less income taxes but deductions slashed.

So if Trump wins he will do more of the same but worse, repubs will cut funding and support to Blue states. How fucking long should CA go along with paying taxes that go to the taker States AND having to live with the bullshit restrictive laws they put in place?

[Irish_Dem]

94. You are correct, it could be too late.

We don't know the end of this story yet.

The world oligarchs, autocrats, and GOP have a strong desire to push
their agenda through at all costs.

But some glimmers of hope if moderate GOPers and Dems can align and fight back.

I am not ready to give up.

[Kid Berwyn]

93. And the GOP's dragging the Republic down with it.

Which is the real shame.

[Irish_Dem]

95. GOP is destroying the most successful democracy in the history of the world.

It is heartbreaking.

[Kid Berwyn]

97. Which is WHY they won't win.

For as long as there are two of us who believe and are still in the Good Fight, Irish_Dem, Democracy will have a fighting chance.

[Irish_Dem]

100. I will always fight the good fight until I cannot draw breath.

I believe in democracy with my whole heart and soul.

My father risked his life to preserve democracy his entire adulthood, and my uncle was killed doing the same.

I am not going to let them or this country down.
You are right KB. As long as there are two of us, we still have a fighting chance.

[berksdem]

98. I really hope...

but we have heard this far too many times. And yet here we are...

[ThoughtCriminal]

99. The split is more like a splinter

The "Deer in the headlight" faction seems to be very small. Sure there are some local exceptions, but Trump speaks for 90% of them. And even among his strongest critics in the GOP, they still can't bring themselves to say they will vote against the Republican nominee.

At this point, I have very little confidence in flipping a significant number of Republican voters. We have to get the non-voters to show up and vote Blue at every level. And we have to do that in EVERY election, not just the Presidential years.

[Irish_Dem]

102. Research shows that cult members peel off with each truth bomb.

Some double down yes, but others peel away.

So we are looking for splinter after splinter to erode the MAGA cult.

[Blue Idaho]

105. Ronald Reagan's 11th Commandment

Has slowed but will not stop the Republican civil war. Even in radical right Idaho the two warring factions are each putting forward a full slate of precinct chair candidates for their primary. It may be late but at least the old school republicans have decided to fight back against the MAGA crowd.

[Irish_Dem]

106. Excellent news.

If it is happening in Idaho maybe there is hope for the rest of the country.

Are you the only Democrat is in the entire state of Idaho?
God love and preserve you.

[Blue Idaho]

158. Thanks for your support!

We are a small but sturdy breed. This year, for the first time in I don’t know how long, we have candidates for every state and county office. If you’ve got a spare $5 you might want to send it to the Idaho Democratic Party. Our Presidential caucus is in three days. If not, at least send some money to your own state party.

Thanks for your kind words!

[Irish_Dem]

159. Wow that is fabulous.

I hope some of them win.
I assume it is a long shot that any of them will get into office.
But all it takes is one to win to start turning the tide.

Yes you are doing God's work for being a Dem in such a MAGA intense state.

[Blue Idaho]

160. You are too kind!

Thanks

[Irish_Dem]

162. I have visited Idaho twice.

Back when Clinton was president.

I drove from Boise to the northern part of the state.
I was shocked by what I heard and saw.

In the gas stations, wanted posters with Cilnton's name and picture.
Posters with a big bullseye and bullet holes with Clinton in the center.

I wondered what the h kind of place I was visiting.

So I am serious about you fighting the good fight in a danger zone.
My hat is off to you for your courage.

[awesomerwb1]

103. Don't hold your breath.

These fuckers have more lives than an army of cats. There is no bottom with republicans and magapublicans. They'll do whatever it takes, WHATEVER, to survive and hold on to power.

Never, EVER, trust a republican.

[Irish_Dem]

104. I am not ready to give up.

I am going to fight for as long as I can.

[PeaceWave]

109. The problem is that young people are increasingly associating themselves with the Republican Party.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/chance-trump-youth-rally-see-him-answer-economic-woes-2024-04-21/

Some of them, you ask them whether the abortion issue concerns them and they answer "No, because we don't intend to have children." Seriously, WTF.

[Irish_Dem]

117. Young people will have a steep and painful learning curve.

When they realized Trump will do nothing for them except take away their freedom.
And what money they have will go into his personal coffers.

[littlemissmartypants]

112. My deep optimistic hope is based in the fact that...

[Irish_Dem]

119. Yes but we don't know what the big change will be after the chaos.

[littlemissmartypants]

125. Except it doesn't say big, it says great.

And I'm not finding fault, I'm hopeful. ❤️

[Irish_Dem]

131. I read it as big change.

But yes we could emerge from this crisis a better country.
Fingers crossed that is what happens.

[Demsrule86]

121. Liz Cheney said Biden must win. She is voting for Biden...I can't believe it.

[Irish_Dem]

124. Yes another example of what I am talking about in this OP.

The fractures are occurring as we speak.

[Initech]

126. I called a long time ago that the GOP bubble was going to get so big it would collapse on itself.

It seems like that's happening now. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of assholes!

[Irish_Dem]

135. Yes it was not sustainable.

You were right.

[Torchlight]

128. For some time now, I was fully convinced the GOP was going through a Dixicrats in '48 moment.

THinking the extremists and blow-it-all-to-hell members of the GOP would be compelled/forced/coerced into splintering off as the Dixiecrats did in 1948.

Now I'm filled with doubt, GOP is unable to police their own, and their platform is too weak to run on without the extremism. Thinking we may actually see these neo-Dixiecrats 2.0 finally destroying their own party leadership, and turning the GOP into something entirely different from its more noble (if not ever practiced) mission stattements of my younger adulthood.

[Irish_Dem]

136. It is already happening.

The normal GOP members have been run out of the party.
It has morphed into a MAGA criminal enterprise.
Marge TG, Boebert, Gaetz are the stars.

It is no longer the party we knew.

And now some of the normal GOP are working with Dems.

[TBF]

129. It's primary season & they are bickering.

Republicans know the drill and they understand the electoral college really well. After convention they will head to the swing states, and they will all vote for their candidate like they always do.

[Irish_Dem]

137. I could argue the GOP is now in uncharted territory.

You are describing how it used to be.

The MAGAs are not normal GOP.

[TBF]

146. I understand your argument but disagree -

MAGA may be more disturbing (especially in terms of their potential for violence) - but at the end of the day I seriously doubt the party will split.

We have a situation with billionaires who are moving back towards Trump. Notably there are Jewish billionaires who feel Trump was a better president for them, and we have tech billionaires who are also moving towards Trump (some of them were for Biden). These billionaires are not out there putting on a show like MAGA is, but they control the purse strings & ultimately the pay for the advertising, which will be brutal in swing states.

I wish I agreed with you, I like your scenario better. But I just don't see it happening.

[bullimiami]

130. The question is did they get their timing wrong because of dumbass trump or

will democracy break first.

[Irish_Dem]

138. This is one of the most dramatic periods in US history.

We don't yet know the answer to your question.
What will break first?

I am one of those people who can almost always predict the ending of a movie or novel.
But I cannot predict the ending to our current real live story.

[Hekate]

134. They're trying to take us all down with them, so no Schadenfreude from me.

[Irish_Dem]

139. I have no joy either.

All of it is the biggest tragedy of our times.

[58Sunliner]

142. Bush was a turning point.

The usage of a govt and foreign wars to enrich people, businesses and coalesce political power. The means by which he got into office. The subversion of the democratic process and the intervention of the Supreme Court to impede democracy. So much lawlessness and destruction of norms.

[Irish_Dem]

143. Yes his brother and the SC installed Bush into the WH.

He let Cheney run the show most of the time.
Lied us into a $trillion dollar illegal invasion to enrich Cheney and cronies.

Dropped depleted uranium bombs on Bagdad, a city with over 50% women and children.

It was shocking and despicable.

I remember there was a report of some sort of social event and Bush was joking around
pretending to look for weapons of mass destruction, looking under the desk and in drawers.
Goofing around. I was horrified.

All the loss of blood and treasure and it is all funny to him.

I don't think Bush was sober the entire time he was in the WH.

Yes we knew then that morality, ethics, the law meant nothing to the GOP.

[58Sunliner]

151. Yes. I was thinking of Clinton. Another point of no return for them.

Really it started with Reagan. The hostage crisis (Carter), and the "managed ending" was a way to unseat Democrats in power. Iran-Contra certainly showed that they had the lack of morals to do so.
Bush is sociopathic.

[Irish_Dem]

152. Exactly.

Reagan was as dirty as they come.
The dirty dealing with Iran to defeat Carter.
Iran Contra was a disgrace.

Did you hear the strong rumor about Bush, I heard it from a good source.

After the illegal invasion of Iraq, Bush and Cheney were going to keep going
and had targeted other parts of the Mideast. Congress was considering articles of
impeachment.

Bush's parents, George Sr and Babs were quite alarmed.
They came to DC, had an intervention of sorts with their son. Right away Bush Jr
drops the idea of any more war, and congress agrees not to pursue impeachment.

[58Sunliner]

154. Did not know that. Jeez.

To think we could have killed more innocents and poisoned a larger area of the mid-east. Just utterly pathological. I remember hearing that Bush made a joke about looking for weapons and had the same reaction. I pretty much had the same reaction when he started "painting" the portraits of vets. And people gave him airtime. Have a good Saturday.

[Irish_Dem]

155. We have never seen Bush sober.

He always looks drunk every time I see him.
A long time alcoholic who can cover it up well, but is still quite intoxicated.

Yes his parents saved him from impeachment.
Thank God congress was going to take action.

[BlueKota]

147. My only hope is that our Democratic leaders and other smart

powerful but not insane people, have a plan in place that they are keeping mum about to take the other side out, if it becomes necessary to do so, before they topple things completely.

I know the we go high when they go low people don't like to think like this, but it may come down to this, in the end. I'm not hoping for this, but it's like the Dylan Thomas poem for me. I know he was talking about old age, but I think it's the same for the country. If the SC gives djt blanket immunity, and the Magats try to sabotage the November election we shouldn't go gently but rage against the dying of the light, like he said.

[Irish_Dem]

150. Great comment BK.

Don't Go Gently Into the Night.

I don't know if there is a plan in place or not.

On the one hand, there are people employed by the US government who have sworn to uphold the constitution and our democracy. Will they do so when the time comes?

On the other hand, we live in a democracy. And the powers that be seem to want to allow the American people to decide their from of government. Can Americans vote in an autocracy and vote out democracy?

I agree, others here are beginning to talk about fighting back when the time comes. Unless we fight for our democracy we are going to lose it.

[ForgedCrank]

161. This started

a very long time ago with Tea Party right wingers. What we see today is the evolution of that group, who now has what they consider a leader. I see it as two separate parties operating under one label and not getting along very well. I do believe that once Trump is gone (as in, deceased or no longer eligible to run for office), the strength of this Tea Party (MAGA) will dwindle down to it's original strength and no longer be of any threat.

[Irish_Dem]

164. I hope you are correct.

But it is not looking like the MAGAs will dwindle any time soon.

It is no longer about Trump, it is about the widespread MAGA rot that has spread across the US government including the judiciary. A party which is a criminal enterprise and has aligned with Putin.

They can see and taste the path to permanent power and I don't think they will stop when Trump is gone.

I hope I am wrong.

[BlueTsunami2018]

163. And yet, there's a very real possibility that they're going to take over the country next year. They never die.

They’ve been “dead” so many times over last fifty years and yet somehow they always come back stronger. Nixon “killed” them, they come right back with three consecutive landslide wins after President Carter had one term. Those Reagan/Bush years, which were worse than Nixon, were supposed to have killed them, but no, we ended up with W, who was even worse than the previous Republican regime, for eight years. We get Obama for eight, trying to put the disaster back together, and who was mostly successful and then what happened? The very worst President in history. A person who openly commits crimes against the nation and tried to overthrow the government is not only a viable candidate but the favorite to win right now.

They’re like zombies you can’t kill, they just get worse and worse, destroy everything in their path and somehow continue to win. They aren’t breaking up, they aren’t dying, they’re never going away.

We must beat them, absolutely must.

[Irish_Dem]

165. I don't mean the MAGAs are breaking up.

I mean the old GOP.

The GOP has been taken over by the MAGAs who are a criminal operation aligned with Putin.

Yes they are like zombies. The dark underbelly of human nature never seems to go away.
It always rears its ugly head over and over.