General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI just learned that my homeless little brother died... two years ago... of covid.
What an odd feeling this is. It's not grief. It's not sadness. --- It's like "Oh! Well that explains why we haven't heard from him."
He wasn't mentally ill, but he wasn't very bright either. He was 66 years old. He had income from SS, USPS retirement, and USAF benefits... he could (if he wanted to) have lived a humble life in a small apt, or owned his own mobile home. But he seemingly preferred to live in the "by the week" motels. When he ran out of money and was evicted, he'd move on to the next hotel whenever his check came in. In between times, he lived on the street, or in shelters.
He had no wife or family that we know of. We don't know who is cremains were given to, but she texted us to let us know what happened. --- It's so bizarre. She doesn't respond to our texted replies/questions. There's no answer when we try to call and her "mailbox-is-full" so no voicemails are possible. It seems unlikely that we'll ever know more than we do now.
It is what it is, I suppose. We tried to help John as much as we could. He wasn't in need of money and he often helped others with his benefits (I think he was being taken advantage of) but he was an adult and could make his own decisions. Even the poor ones.
We weren't estranged (in the usual sense) but he seemed to have no particular desire to keep in touch or let us know where he was or how he was doing. John was functional and independent, but his IQ and maturity was about the same as an adolescent or early teen. (Smoking was his only vice... no drugs, no weed, no booze.)
So... now we know. Now we can stop worrying and wondering. Maybe what I'm feeling is relief.
Thank you for listening (reading).
Skittles
(157,807 posts)it's hard to lose a sibling, I have lost two brothers
I am curious who the "she" is you are referring to who left a message because that does sound strange and honestly, a bit inhumane.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)But her message was (essentially) "Hey, this is Sue. John's friend. Sorry I didn't have your number to let you know that John died. They gave me his ashes. Thought you'd want to know."
Ugh.
Skittles
(157,807 posts)and to not even impart any context regarding her relationship with your brother? You (and he) deserved better.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)But, better than NO thought at all, I suppose.
Yavin4
(35,915 posts)I have two problematic siblings for different reasons. One is very similar to your brother, but this sibling keeps asking me for money every other year even though she's had jobs much, much better than I've had. Refuses to listen to anyone. Refuses to take control of her life. Refuses to even keep herself or her house clean.
I cannot parent a grown adult. No one can.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)There's only so much help we can give. We can't live their lives for them.
Groundhawg
(833 posts)Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)XanaDUer2
(13,355 posts)Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)marble falls
(61,641 posts)... I understand your relief. We all felt it when a favorite nephew who had gone of the rails died in his twenties suddenly of alcoholism.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)I assume he had friends... I hope he wasn't "found dead" under an overpass. We'll never know.
LiberalFighter
(53,366 posts)I would suggest getting a death certificate.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)I could get a lawyer to assist, but... I'm not sure it's worth it. There's no estate and no benefits. (Although he might have qualified for an "In Memory Of" headstone memorial marker paid for by the DOD.)
modrepub
(3,594 posts)on the headstone. Father and step-father had something from the military. He didn't need to serve long to qualify.
The DoD may be another source of information if you're interested. If he was getting USAF retirement checks, they had to go to somewhere. I know my brother was able to pull my Father's military record but I'm not sure how difficult that is. I think this needs to be done to qualify for the headstone so there must be some mechanism to get this information, just not sure if a sibling can request information.
My condolences. Peace be with you.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)I appreciate your kind words.
LiberalFighter
(53,366 posts)Would require info you don't have. In about eight years Social Security Death Index would be searchable. Or try a reverse lookup of the phone number that called you.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)It rings, but no answer. Voicemail is full. Text messages are not "bounced" but no reply. --- I think we'll just have to be content with simply knowing what we know (even though many questions remain unanswered.)
I was horrified at the thought that he died alone and outdoors. But another poster reminded me that unhoused folks have a community of their own and they're a community of their own and they do their best to look after each other. --- I hope that's the case.
I appreciate your kind and supportive words and suggestions.
70sEraVet
(4,092 posts)If so, he was at least in caring, capable hands. I know that VA wasn't always held in high esteem, but today's VA system is probably the best healthcare system this country offers.
I hope you will find closure.
Try your county's Veteran Service Officer. They always seem to be anxious to help, and they can access any veteran's files.
Good luck.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)slightlv
(4,138 posts)You can ask for his DD Form 214 - that would be his discharge paper. It would have most, if not all of the info needed for burial and headstone in a National Cemetery.
I'm so sorry for your loss. It's hard when an adult sibling goes his own way, with no real effort to keep in touch with others in the family. We seem to have a rule of "the oldest female" in the family being responsible for holding the rest of the immediate family together. With Mom in a nursing home now, it has fallen to me. Frankly, I think the youngest adult should be the one responsible! Hosting holiday dinners, etc., is a lot of work for an older person, like me! (LOL)
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)Just taking a break. It's emotionally exhausting. --- I appreciate your kind words.
FirstLight
(13,849 posts)It's funny how families disperse sometimes... I never would have thought ours would have become so fractured over time. But the elders go and we lose track of distance and time etc
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)tblue37
(66,035 posts)Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)But it's comforting to believe that even without family, he wasn't truly alone. He had his chosen-family and friends.
LuckyCharms
(18,721 posts)I lost my older brother to Covid 2 years ago as well.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)FakeNoose
(35,276 posts)May you have fond memories of your brother from happier times.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)shrike3
(5,370 posts)May he rest in peace.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)mdmc
(29,162 posts)Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)underpants
(186,115 posts)Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)mdmc
(29,162 posts)Some of them preferred to live out on their own in tents or in the streets or hotels when it was cold.
What often amazed me was the gentile kindness of the streets. There was this web of support and care. People would give you their last shirt (but never their last cigarette, lol).
Although it may be hard to understand, I would assume that your brother had a rich tapestry of people in his life. Sue's willingness to reach out, even if she won't correspond, is huge. She must have thought the world of him to have looked you up and gotten you this information.
I'm sure he had many friends and interested people in his life.
One thing I would suggest is asking Sue if you could send her some money and cigarettes in honor of your brother. It might get a response.
Millions of Americans continue to live like your brother. Keep them in your thoughts and prayers. God Bless Them. They are Jesus incarnate, and anything that is done for their benefit is holy work.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)... but our expectations are low.
Thanks very much for your kind words and comments reminding us that he wasn't TRULY alone and that he was simply being generous with what he had, rather than being taken advantage of. That's a better way to look at it, and believing that's the case is comforting.
mdmc
(29,162 posts)I am sure that he had a rich life.
Continue to do what you are comfortable doing to honor him. Help those like him. And like you. There is a world of people out there with a similar story to the one you told in this OP. If needed, you can reach out to them for support. NAMI and poverty reduction coalitions come to mind..
God Bless and I pray that you are able to connect with Sue and truly celebrate your brothers life in some way.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)I've turned a blind eye many times. I've judged and scorned in the past. And whether their condition and situation is because of bad decisions, mental illness, drug abuse, alcoholism, etc... they all deserve food/comfort/shelter. --- Even if my dollar goes toward cigarettes (ugh!) or liquor... in their eyes it's what they "need" and what will make them happy/content.
KarenS
(4,576 posts)I always give to panhandlers.
They are somebody's child, somebody's brother or sister, somebody's friend.
shrike3
(5,370 posts)First time he did it in front of me, I pushed back. He said, "Doesn't matter what they spend it on. Could give them a moment of joy."
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)They're not doing it for the fun of it. They put themselves in danger... they are vulnerable to being harassed, mugged, or arrested (in certain areas). They've hit the bottom and they're desperate. I used to waste $10 a day on cigarettes... I can afford to give a buck or two to someone who needs it.
brer cat
(26,007 posts)I'm sorry for your loss, and I hope you find some peace in knowing.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)TygrBright
(20,979 posts)Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)japple
(10,272 posts)Even though you may not feel it right now, it is there. Just know we are here for you at any time.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)PlutosHeart
(1,445 posts)I hope somehow there is some closure. Am sorry that you cannot get ahold of the person who had called.
There was person that I went to HS with. His name was John also and a similar age, yet he chose the same path that you described. Sometimes like you had wondered what had happened to him. I sort of get it but this was your brother....I am so sorry.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)happy feet
(1,055 posts)Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)KarenS
(4,576 posts)Life can be so hard sometimes and some folks can get so very lost. It's hard to watch and experience losing them to such an unnecessarily difficult life.
Just sending some ((hugs)) and empathy.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)Even though he never asked for our help, we tried to guide him. He seemed perfectly content with his choices... and I guess that mere "contentment" is more than many sheltered and well-fed folks achieve.
cate94
(2,877 posts)Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)PortTack
(34,339 posts)Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)Not knowing and suspecting was worse.
sheshe2
(86,868 posts)At least now you have some closure. 💙
My best to you and yours.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)Knowing is relief. It was worse when we simply wondered and worried.
Katcat
(337 posts)I guess Ill hear something similar about my youngest brother. Dont know where he is but hes an alcoholic druggie.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)senseandsensibility
(20,183 posts)It's sad and frightening how people can fall between the cracks and pass away unnoticed. I wish our society wasn't so fragmented, and people like your brother could find the support they need.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)TBF
(33,919 posts)I lost my brother too and we had been fairly close throughout life except I really didn't know the extent of his addiction issues. I would say high-functioning addict, but the substances took their toll eventually. I do have his cremains; however, the roommate at least knew who the police should call. Maybe Sue will work with you on that - but I can also understand that at least you have some kind of closure knowing he's gone. Sometimes that's as good as it gets. ((hugs))
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)Yes... sometimes "as good as it gets" is all we can expect and I need to learn to accept that.
MOMFUDSKI
(7,080 posts)of loss. Hard to absorb. Take it one day at a time.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts):hugs:
SocialDemocrat61
(2,621 posts)😢
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)lapucelle
(19,518 posts)Holding you in my heart...
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)Hekate
(94,160 posts)Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)ancianita
(38,073 posts)I understand your mixed feelings. It's hard to witness (or never hear from) a family member who lives their life on terms detrimental to them, even unto death. But like you've said, it was his life to live as he chose.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)You never know when the time will come.
ancianita
(38,073 posts)debm55
(33,910 posts)Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)Thanks very much.
LeftInTX
(29,644 posts)Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)mountain grammy
(27,148 posts)Even if our siblings aren't close, it's still a loss of someone who survived childhood with you, or against you, as the case may be. Hugs to you Daisy..
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)* and I was a bit of a confrontational advocate trying to get him to "shape up". I guess I should have believed him when he said he was okay with his life. Not the life I would have chosen for him, but the life he chose for himself, and I should have respected that.
I appreciate your kind words.
COL Mustard
(6,798 posts)It's hard. Always hard.
Please consider contacting the VA. He may be entitled to some benefits. He served our Country; giving him a decent send off is the least we can do.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)niyad
(119,109 posts)and comfort. I am so very sorry for your loss.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)🫂🙏
Joinfortmill
(16,174 posts)Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)🥰
dlk
(12,234 posts)Its heartbreaking when a family member has challenges and is disconnected. Sending thoughts of peace and comfort to you at this difficult time.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)dlk
(12,234 posts)Alice Kramden
(2,362 posts)This thread is so heart-felt
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)madaboutharry
(41,180 posts)You told such a sad story. I hope you have a few good memories of your brother that you can keep with you.
It seems he lived a hard life. May he rest in peace.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)lucca18
(1,296 posts)You are feeling so many things right now, sadness and sorry.
Your dear brother.
May he Rest In Peace.
Please take care.
💔❤️💔
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)Orrex
(63,886 posts)I hope that this at least allows some closure and resolution, even if further details aren't likely forthcoming.
Best to you and your family in the wake of this news.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)peacebuzzard
(5,226 posts)when my dad came to his last years, he had been a lifer in the military: two wars, a purple heart, and proud of his service. He often mentioned he wanted to be buried in Arlington, which he has complete right.
But he started a decline which prompted his retirement. Mom had died at an early age and Dad decided that he would have minimal use for us.
It prompted legal problems when he began a second family which I have been dealing with for almost 25 years. They couldn't understand Dad's only language, English.
It was the hospital administration's protocol to insist on calling all family members to visit him one last time. That message came through the US Consulate. He was buried in a pauper grave in another country and I have yet to address that situation.
Nonetheless, it was a somber moment that prompted years of legal issues. And still does.
I am so sorry for the loss of your brother.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)I appreciate your kind words.
MuseRider
(34,320 posts)Similar situation. Sending a warm hug, as silly as that sounds. Mine is still living and driving me crazy with his drunken insanity.
It is still hard to move on but it sounds like you are doing well now that you know.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)... so the thought had crossed our minds. It was a surprise, but not a surprise. We knew it would come, but we didn't know when. --- I hope things work out with your family troubles too.
MuseRider
(34,320 posts)They will likely end up like yours, I do not think my brother has any friends. He is still stuck in High School yet he is 67 years old. His life has been nothing but hardship but 100% of that falls right in his lap. Years of effort I have put into him but he just punts it down the road.
That silence used to drive me crazy but when he got violent and started hitting me I called it off. When something comes through I just let it go.
It is what it is. I am glad yours is coming to an end, I say this hoping that the end actually brings peace to you. I am not certain at all how that might feel. I hope peace for you and for me when the time comes.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)I guess this message thread will serve as his "funeral" or memorial and a chance for me to face the reality of it. Perhaps in some ways we were more fortunate than others. John was never violent, he just wasn't motivated.
He knew things could be better but never made an effort. He didn't lack for money except that he gave it away rather than use it for his own benefit. Although he lacked the ability (desire?) to wisely manage his income, or to know how to pay rent/utilities on time, he was "too smart" for any of us to force him into a state-managed guardianship or conservatorship. He was MORE frustrated with our attempts to help him to be better than he was with his life.
Our attempts made him less happy and it seemed to hurt his feelings, so we gave up and just let John-be-John. Considering the violence you experienced, you made the correct (and difficult) decision to let go. Sometimes our reluctant acceptance of reality is the best we can do.
Sending strength and courage to you, MuseRider.
OAITW r.2.0
(28,017 posts)Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)Doodley
(10,134 posts)Better than being imprisoned by societal norms. I am sorry that he went sooner than he should have.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)area51
(12,095 posts)Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)Don1
(1,659 posts)Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)ECL213
(295 posts)You might want try to get independent verification if you really want to know.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)* that were being doled out to him from our mother's estate. She was wise enough to NOT give him a lump-sum and instead set up a trust that would provide an annuity-like payment. We checked with the trustee and learned that there are still unclaimed checks. I expect that if they confirm his death (or if he's declared legally dead) then what remains will be divided among his heirs (if any, if known) or it will go back to me. It's less than $5000 now. I'll accept it, but I'm not going to chase it.
I think that's the only independent verification we'll be able to get. Police reports don't exist. Funeral homes and hospitals won't share info. Homeless deaths are so common that it doesn't even make the newspapers any more (esp not for large cities like Orlando).
I appreciate your feedback and thoughts on the matter.
Liberty Belle
(9,598 posts)Including verification of where he passed and the cause.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)"Sorry without a social security number and proof of your relationship as an heir, and need-to-know, we cannot share private information."
We are, of course, curious. But that's the extent. Whatever "estate" he had remaining is of little concern and pursuing would require more resources and legal assistance than it's worth. --- We're content that he wasn't "found dead" in an alleyway. He did have friends and I'll choose to believe that (hopefully) he was being cared for, even as an indigent, when he died.
Thank you for you thoughts. I appreciate it.
Ursus Rex
(244 posts)I've had something like that happen, and it feels like losing twice.
I can't say more than I'm sorry, and that I feel your loss, and I hope you find some peace.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)* losing twice... a long goodbye and extended absence (and the sadness associated with that) then the confirmation and knowing for sure. This thread has brought comfort. Sharing the story is like an substitute/alternative to a funeral rite. Hearing comforting words is helpful.
Lulu KC
(3,548 posts)But the relief is good. Grief is such a mixed bag of emotions.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)* that I've been processing this past week. It's not the life I would have chosen for him... but it's the life he chose for himself. It wasn't some great tragedy that befell him (unemployment, illness, accident) it's just the way John was. Looking back, I know it was frustrating for him when we tried to help "set him on the right path". And maybe he was embarrassed, or he sensed that we may have been embarrassed by him. As people say when they want to avoid taking blame: "mistakes were made."
So, yes... relief is part of the mixture. I felt guilty over feeling relief... but I can accept that it's not bad to feel that way.
dembotoz
(16,922 posts)uncles kids..father a drunk, bitter divo...rce..
keeping in touch can not be one sided.
my mom tried god bless her....
Rest of the family pretty much turned up their collective nose.
My uncle died fairly young..when the family patriarch aunt died she wrote into the will how disgusted she was with him. I understand all three of his kids are now dead.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)* are generally kept pretty hush-hush within families, only spoken of in whispers or avoided completely. For the longest time I thought we were the only family I knew who had a "black sheep". I guess it's more common that people realize.
Owens
(309 posts)Sounds a little fishy, wonder if SS, USPS and USAF know he's dead?
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)She did not try to claim or pick up his trust checks.
sdfernando
(5,327 posts)Its not an easy thing to go through. I lost my oldest brother and my Dad within 8 months of each other. I was not very close to my older brother, partly due to the age gap but I did love him.
You may be able to get some information from the local authorities. I'm sure the keep records. A little sleuthing and you can find out the funeral home his body was sent to and who they released his ashes to.
Again, so sorry about your brother.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)* and some time in the future, we may try again. I need to balance my desire to know with whether or not I really need to know, and figure out if it's all worth it. For now, I need to step back. --- I appreciate your advice and for sharing your story too.
wryter2000
(47,254 posts)You lost him years ago. It's still sad. My best to his loved ones.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)* he's been absent for many years prior to his death. And in the back of my mind I knew it was a possibility. I just never let myself believe it or explore those fears too seriously.
yardwork
(63,720 posts)So many of us have lives and families that are quite different from the idealized lifestyles portrayed in media. Please know that you are not alone.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)* I do have good memories to hold. Thanks for your sympathy.
bif
(23,782 posts)He lived out in the Pacific Northwest. Always was a bit of a drifter. He'd stay with friends and relatives. Thought of himself as an independent sort. But was okay accepting money from my dad and other brother. He was a pothead his whole life. He was a super friendly guy and would support himself doing painting jobs. He was his happiest fishing for salmon out in Oregon. Then he up and killed himself. Not a total shock, but sad nonetheless.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,325 posts)* to hear what happened. So sad and tragic to care for someone but not be able to help them, or to have the offers of help refused. Even in failure and tragedy, just knowing/believing that we did our best is sometimes all we can hang onto.
bif
(23,782 posts)He's been gone a dozen years or so. But I still think of him often.
mdmc
(29,162 posts)peace and low stress