Salman Rushdie says a Palestinian state formed today would be 'Taliban-like'

[SunSeeker]

Commenting on the US campus protesters calling for a free Palestine, the author said that while he has “argued for a Palestinian state for most of my life – since the 1980s, probably – right now, if there was a Palestinian state, it would be run by Hamas, and that would make it a Taliban-like state, and it would be a client state of Iran”.

“Is that what the progressive movements of the western left wish to create? To have another Taliban, another Ayatollah-like state, in the Middle East, right next to Israel?” said the Indian-born British-American author on a podcast run by German broadcaster Rundfunk Berlin-Brandenburg which was released on Thursday.

“The fact is that I think any human being right now has to be distressed by what is happening in Gaza because of the quantity of innocent death. I would just like some of the protests to mention Hamas. Because that’s where this started, and Hamas is a terrorist organisation. It’s very strange for young, progressive student politics to kind of support a fascist terrorist group.”

Rushdie said that there has been “student upheaval” at New York University, where he a faculty member. He said that he has mixed opinions on the protests – while students have the right to demonstrate, he said, it is also necessary to ensure that other students don’t feel unsafe as a result. He added that while unleashing armed police on students is not a good idea, neither is occupying and damaging buildings.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/article/2024/may/20/salman-rushdie-says-a-palestinian-state-formed-today-would-be-taliban-like?CMP=oth_b-aplnews_d-1

[Archae]

1. He's right.

The Palestinian "governments" now are either horrendously corrupt, (they've been really corrupt since Arafat and his family took power,) or addicted to violence, for violence's sake.

If all the Jews in Israel disappeared, these radical groups would go straight to killing each other.

I'm reminded of a Doonesbury comic, where an Iraqi translator points out to an American a guy who's family killed someone from the translator's family.
In the 14th century.

The American, exasperated says "What is wrong with you people?"

[SunSeeker]

2. Yup. It is so jarring to hear college students adopt Hamas rhetoric, calling people who disagree with them "Zionists."

And calling for an "Intifada" against Israel while wearing a keffiyeh they bought on Amazon.

And some are denying the mass rapes and other well documented atrocities that Hamas committed on 10/7. It's mind-boggling. I had a discussion with one such student on Reddit and he insisted all reports of Hamas committing rapes on 10/7 are false. It's like talking to a MAGAt about who won the 2020 election.

[Cha]

34. They're fed propaganda and

are regurgitating it. ..

Thankfully there are those who are holding them accountable..

Opinion: People shocked by student support for Hamas shouldn't have been

Thankfully, some heroic citizens in the corporate world have issued a response. Students may have the right to openly support murder, but hedge fund CEO Bill Ackman explained that he and his fellow business leaders have a legitimate interest in knowing their names so they never inadvertently hire any of them. When a New York University Law student released a statement similarly hideous to Harvard’s, the law firm of Winston and Strawn exercised its own right to rescind the student’s employment offer.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/24/opinions/israel-harvard-penn-student-protests-hamas-goldfeder/index.html

[brer cat]

3. K&R

[Sympthsical]

4. The dogs will catch the car

But honestly, Israel needs to not be involved with this anymore. They need to withdraw, let the Palestinians and UN (lol) sort it, and everyone will make their choices.

Of course we all - very, very obviously - know what a free Palestine will look like. It will make 30,000 dead in a war look like a throat-clearing. The medieval religious fundamentalists may not get there all at once, but they will get there.

But at least the Jews won't be responsible for any of it. Of course, people will still blame Israel for anything and everything that happens. When you're in the same damn mode for 60+ years, it's very difficult to find a new tune. Look at how many people go on and on about colonialism literally generations later long after self-determination became a thing. The weirdly racist infantilization of peoples is a bizarre hallmark of this stuff, and they just cannot get out from under their ancient ideology.

As with all these campus projects, it will go to shit, they'll say nothing, and then pretend this isn't what was meant to happen, that something must have gone wrong in the implementation!

No one ever implements their dreams in "the right way." See: All of the 20th Century Ever.

It doesn't mean the dreams are bad. Just the implementation. By other people. Over . . . there somewhere. They don't know. They took, like, two world civ classes. They can't solve everything. You deal with it.

And they will leave the Palestinians to deal with it. Rest assured.

[wnylib]

30. Well said.

[dalton99a]

36. +1

[Voltaire2]

5. So what? That is their problem.

[edhopper]

7. Until the Hamas, or some of their ilk

who rule Palestine decide on another Oct 7th. This time with the force of a State behind them.

[Voltaire2]

8. So no change at all is the worst case?

You just described exactly what happened under the Israeli regime.

[edhopper]

9. What Israeli regime?

Gaza was ruled by Hamas.

[Voltaire2]

12. Uh no. Gaza was and is controlled by Israeli forces.

The ‘withdrawal’ left Gaza surrounded by the IDF, continually under attack, and its people denied basic rights by Israeli policy. The Gaza blockade, from 2007 onwards basically turned Gaza into a self governing prison camp. The October 7 massacre did not occur in a vacuum. It was a direct result of the disastrous 60+ year occupation of Palestinian territory.

[edhopper]

15. I assume

by "Palestinian territory" you mean all of Israel.

Bye.

[Mountainguy]

21. BS

That's like blaming south Korea for the problems in North Korea.

[EX500rider]

38. "left Gaza surrounded by the IDF," So the IDF had forces on the Gaza/Eygpt border or would you like to walk that back?

[elias7]

51. Uh no.

Israel left Gaza in 2006, took 10,000 Jewish citizens with them; Gaza promptly destroyed all the infrastructure the Jews had built (greenhouses, among other things), and would have left Gaza alone had Gaza not continued to either bomb Israel on a near daily basis or sneak into Israel and suicide bomb markets and restaurants.

The IDF is protecting Israel from Gaza attack, not the other way around. If you don’t understand that, you don’t understand the conflict. Stop attacking Israel, the war ends tomorrow.

If I may ask to clarify, when you say a 60+ year occupation of Palestinian territory, what do you consider Palestinian territory?

[Happy Hoosier]

10. Really, it's not.... it's OUR problem too.

A Taliban-like Palestine will continue to sponsor terrorism against Israel, Israel will eventually be forced to crush them.

And that's putting aside terrorism directed agains the US.

Not to mention that all the resources of that government would be funneled towards those efforts, and the Palestinian people get screwed..... AGAIN.

This is something we have to get ahead of. A failed Palestinian state doesn;t do ANYONE any good.

[Voltaire2]

13. Regime change worked pretty well in Afghanistan.

[Happy Hoosier]

14. If your solution is to just let this play out, that's what we're getting now.

If your solution is just "fuck it," then Israel will crush and occupy Palestine and that's the end of it.... except for the never-ending cycle of desctruction. If you support that, you might as well just support letting Israel do whatever it wants now and get it over with.

[sarisataka]

16. This is why I truly feel sad for the Palestinians

They are pawns everyone is willing to sacrifice.

[LexVegas]

6. Of course it would. Hamas is the representative government. nt

[brush]

11. Not helpful. Any statehood for Palestinians by the ICC, UN or any other international entity...

must called for a new governing apparatus sans Hamas, which must be eliminated. Why the fuck is Rushdie injecting such poisonous crap into the ether?

Guess he's still upset at the fatwah issued against him but the thirty-some thousands killed in Gaza by the Netanyahu/Likud government is a whole other matter than personal grievance. Maybe try seeking solutions for the horror happening in Gaza instead of spewing poison into the situation. Or STFU.

[Beastly Boy]

19. ICC is a court, UN is not an enforcement organization.

Calling for either one to determine the composition of a Palestinian government is the same as calling Israel to determine it. Neither one has any standing to do this.

Does Rushdie have anything to lose or gain by foreseeing the disastrous outcome of Palestinian self rule in the current political environment? Exactly what "poisonous crap" does Rushdie inject when he is stating something that can easily be predicted merely by looking into the history of the Palestinians attempting to govern themselves?

[brush]

23. Whatever multi-mation entity takes on a Palestinian election, I say more power to them.

Rushdie's obvious grievance against Muslims has no place now in the Gaza/Netanyahu/Likud conflict. Not helpful as it casts doubt and unneeded sentiment on an already tense situation.

Not helpful for Israel or Gaza.

[Beastly Boy]

25. Rushdie is as relevant to the Palestinian election, whatever form it may or may not take, as I am.

He is not in favor or against any particular multinational or national or non-national entity. he says, if the Palestinian state is created right now, no matter who organizes it, who gets to vote, who monitors the elections, what the outcome of the elections might be, Hamas will take power in that state. He is not even mentioning any elections:

probably – right now, if there was a Palestinian state, it would be run by Hamas, and that would make it a Taliban-like state, and it would be a client state of Iran”.

No matter what.

And he has a good reason to say what he did. Just look at what happened in Gaza in 2005, and how it determined everything that is happening in it and in the Middle East until this day.

it's not a grievance, it is a warning. Ignore history at your discretion.

[brush]

32. Hamas must be eliminated. Rushdie's words are not helpful to anyone...

as he has nothing to do with the situation. He certainly won't have any part of any negotiations, statehood recognition or election monitoring.

No one needs every tom dick and harry chiming in on the situation.

[Beastly Boy]

39. Of course his words are helpful!

It is not every day that anyone brings up a warning of an inevitable disaster, especially when it comes to the current dysfunctional Palestinian leadership governing its people.

[The Magistrate]

43. That Would Pretty Much Shut This Place Down, Sir, Eh?

"No one needs every tom dick and harry chiming in on the situation."

[betsuni]

45. Heh.

[brush]

48. Granted, we do engaged fervently in arguments here on the Gaza war...

but we don't have internantional platforms as Rushdie does. I still say he needs to STFU and not further inflame the situation.

[The Magistrate]

49. He Draws The Conclusion Any Knowledgeable Observer Does

He inflames nothing.

Given the present state of politics and religion among the Arabs of Palestine, any popular government formed by that polity in the near future will be a fundamentalist regime lashed together with hate for Jews, and extremely hostile to anything anyone of progressive or liberal sentiments approves and supports. If you would wager against this outcome of establishing a state of Arab Palestine in any near future, avoid card-games where money changes hands.

Mind, I have no objection to there being a state of Arab Palestine established. I do strongly suggest honesty concerning its likely character.


"Many say they would sooner die than think, and often do."

[brush]

50. Everyone has opinions, amoung other things. You and Rushdie both have no idea of what will happen...

if there is a multi-nationally supervised election monitored by honest broker, neutral nations, which can not of course include the US or Israel.

Hamas, which should be excluded, as it hasn't held an election in nearly two decades, should not have any part or chance of retaining control.

A fresh start in the region with new players is in order. Even a multi-national monitor of the territory if necessary.

The Netanyahu/Likud admin has done such a horrendous job they, like Hamas, should also play no part but to clear out and leave the oversight of Gaza and the West Bank to a multi-national force.

Much has to be determined as it's an extremely complex situation wrought by on-again-off-again conflict of some 75 years. It's time for serious talks to solve it fairly or we risk another 75 years of on-again-off-again conflict.

And that's the last thing we need, along with Rushdie's unwise comments.

[TheProle]

26. I'd say once you lose an eye and use of a hand in an attack by an Islamist...

and endure three decades of regressive idiots calling for your murder, you can say whatever the fuck you want.

[brush]

33. Of course. So can you and I. But what good is the negativity?

No one needs every tom dick and harry chiming in with doom and gloom.

Come up with solutions not words warning us not to try to achieve piece instead of another 75 years of on-again-off-again killings and war.

[Elessar Zappa]

17. His position is very reasonable.

I agree with his points.

[sarisataka]

18. He is absolutely correct

The Hamas Covenant outlines the future state which would be governed under Sharia law.

[JI7]

20. Isn't that why the Palestinian Authority doesn't hold elections ?

[betsuni]

22. K&R

[maxsolomon]

24. Stop with the nuanced reasoning, Salman!

Don't you know that all intractable, long-lived conflicts have binary solutions?

[SleeplessinSoCal]

27. What about the ICC?

Is there no crime in this atrocity? War criminals are no longer held to account because of geopolitics?

Why are all crimes, at all levels, accepted by so many?

The world has gone insane.

[Srkdqltr]

28. Do the women realise that women in any Palestine that is muslum will require a dress and lifestyle they won't like!

I'm against the withholding of supplies by Israel. Both sides have issues. Inserting oneself into this is not good.

[sarisataka]

29. Wait until the supporters find out how the LGBTQ Palestinians will be treated

that is, assuming they care

[Srkdqltr]

31. Yes

[Beastly Boy]

40. And don't get me started on freedom of speech, voting rights, labor rights, freedom from religion, oh my!

[LeftInTX]

46. Palestinian women have been covering themselves more and more over the past 40 years.

They used to never wear veils, now they almost all do.

[Bucky]

35. So... does he think we should re-invade Afghanistan and "liberate" it again?

I'll worry about installing a liberal democracy in the West Bank only after we achieve it in Louisiana.

[Beastly Boy]

41. No he doesn't. And he is not worried about installing a liberal democracy in the west bank.

He just doesn't get the American far left begging for a despotic Islamist dictatorship "from the river to the sea".

[Bucky]

42. Paper dragon

Sorry, not a real problem

[Beastly Boy]

47. For Rushdie it is not a problem. For the Middle East it is.

To deny this, you will have to give a complete pass to decades of Islamist violence in the region, of which Palestinian terrorism is a significant part.

[dalton99a]

37. The U.S. should stay away from that shit show.

Let the parties sort things out among themselves.

[0rganism]

44. At the rate we're going here, the US could become 'Taliban-like' in a frighteningly short time

Over the last decade we have gone well past "global laughing stock", into "warning to others" territory.