In another thread, one about extremes of weather, I noticed

[MineralMan]

that some DUer wrote that he or she was glad to have not brought children into this world. Predictably, others stepped in to rail against a statement.

It's something that happens to people who have decided not to reproduce. Those who have reproduced seem to take umbrage about simple statements from those who have not. Predictable, but the politics of it don't make much sense.

In 1965, after reading about the dangers of overpopulation on this planet, I made the decision not to participate in adding to the population. The math made sense. Since then, there are over 4 billion more people on the planet than there were in 1965. The math was correct. Now, the topic is global climate change, which is caused by humans burning stuff and adding CO2 to the atmosphere. The topic is no longer overpopulation, but the impact of such overpopulation on climate.

In 1965, most of the writings were concerned with the ability of the planet to feed and shelter all those additional people. I don't remember any mention of our impact on the weather and climate. But, same cause, same argument.

It was unusual in 1965 to declare that you wouldn't cause any children to be born. I didn't broadcast that, because doing so got the expected, "You're so selfish" comment. Instead I paired up with partners who had the same opinions as I did and we lived happily ever after, more or less.

It's shocking, in a way, to hear the same arguments brought when someone mentions not reproducing. My not making more humans has zero negative impact on anyone else. It has a neutral effect on pretty much everything. Yet, some people find it troubling that I would have made such a decision.

Well, I'll be 79 years old next month. I'm approaching the end of my life. As I think about things as they are, I am reinforced in my belief that I did the right thing. I don't argue that everyone should have done as I did. None of my business, really. But, I'm feeling justified in making that decision, while being sad that more people did not do the same.

I remain glad that I did not add to the problem. It is what it is.

[yagotme]

1. Your decision is your decision.

Only YOU can choose what is right for YOU. No one else is impacted, so why do they care? Rec'd.

[leftyladyfrommo]

107. I just didn't want to spend my life taking care

of kids. Kids are just not my thing.

[yagotme]

111. When my current wife and I got married, she was thinking about having another kid.

She's a few years older than I am, and when I suggested to her, that she would be 50-ish when they graduated high school, some of the luster wore off. She still kind of regrets not having another one, but I helped finish raising her 2 sons, and now, we're raising 2 grand daughters. Plenty enough kids for me.

[Lonestarblue]

2. I, too, chose not to have children.

I have never regretted my decision, and I have never complained about paying property taxes that support local schools even though I had no children in them. Nor do I argue against programs that help families. The pressure to have more children needs to stop. It’s a big decision and a big responsibility, and it should be personal choice.

[MineralMan]

4. Exactly.

I've always supported taxation that helped to educate others' children. Or to help pay for childcare. That's just a social responsibility. It's everyone's responsibility.

[bahboo]

32. the same way we feel....

[LoisB]

65. Amen!

[soldierant]

97. So many peolpe think that education only benfits the students who receive it. That's nonsense,

as I learned at my mother's knee. (Of course I', only amonth off from Mineral Man in age, so there were no computers, no cell phones, adding machines were big heavy stuf - well, you get it.) She'd often use the example of How would you like to try to buy something from a cashier who knows no arithmetic and can't count?

My husband and I chose not to reproduce also. In our case, the population and climate considerations were supplemented by congenital conditions- we both had some, mostly different one, but both had above average intelligence. Stephen Hawking was a great man, and we admired him, but we didn't want to raise a second one.

[Skittles]

105. thank you

and I certainly don't mind paying school taxes because I LIKE BEING AROUND EDUCATE PEOPLE

[MotownPgh]

3. Yes many life styles/choices

are apparently much more acceptable for some reason.

[MineralMan]

6. It always seemed odd to me.

The decisions we make always affect our lives in some way. But other people's decisions don't necessarily affect my life. I don't get the negativity.

[progressoid]

5. We decided to have a couple children. They are now in their 30's and they have decided NOT to have children

Climate change is one of many reasons they chose this path. I support them with all my heart.

[Mossfern]

23. Three of my four children have made the same decision

We have two grandchildren.

For our generation (between my husband and I) there are six siblings and only two of the six have had children. My sister had 1 and my husband and I had four. So a reduction of 1 - and that's not counting the siblings of our siblings or our siblings' spouses. Yeah it's complicated.
There are only three grandchildren of the original six siblings. So a reduction of 3?

Maybe my logic is a bit wacky. I did tell my children when they were pondering about whether to have kids or not that I did not have them in order to have grandchildren.

[TwilightZone]

7. I have always found it rather odd, particularly on DU.

The same people who (presumably) support a woman's right to choose regarding the issue of abortion rail against those same women for choosing not to bear children? Seems a bit duplicitous. Neither situation is anyone else's business outside of those making the decisions. I would actually prefer that people have fewer kids (no one *needs* 16 kids, for example), though that's not my business.

Personally, I chose not to have children for a variety of reasons. Some were similar to yours - the planet already has enough people. I helped raise my younger sister, and she was a bit of a demon as a child. As a child, I wasn't terribly fond of most other kids (grew up in a very conservative small town) and often gravitated more toward adults. I was also mercilessly bullied from the age of 5, and I can't imagine how children can deal with that in the age of social media and perpetual (mostly conservative) outrage.

I've never regretted the decision not to have children, not for a single moment.

[Think. Again.]

8. I've never understood the pro-procreation bit...

...why is it important to society that everyone have kids?

I assume the average person gets it from the religious cults that want them to birth more tithe-payers, and of course capitalists always want a growing pool of cheap workers and captive consumers, but what actual, possible reason could there be to encourage general population growth???

[MotownPgh]

54. It's a biological need. Just normal for a species

to reproduce, like any other species, it's natural. Humans have the added ability to choose.

[Think. Again.]

69. Yes, I understand the survival of the species bit...

...which plays out in our sexual drive, basically, being horny is as far as nature goes with that. What I was questioning is the ubiquitous social pressure to have children despite the damage to our civilization that the overpopulation we've created is causing.

If anything, the current social pressure to procreate runs against our species' survival instincts which makes the continuation of that social pressure all the more un-natural.

[MotownPgh]

93. I have never personally felt any social

pressure to have children. I got more pressure to get married though it didn't work!

[Hekate]

75. This is true. It's a tremendous drive, and can only be partly overridden by the rational brain...

That was something I didn’t fully get until my own biological alarm clock went off. What a life-lesson that was — I thought my rational mind was in total control, and boy howdy, did I ever learn to not be too judgmental.

Fortunately, I had the education, the determination, and the means to wait. And luck — this is where some of my outrage about abortion bans comes in — a big chunk of what happens to women comes down to luck.

As for individuals having fewer children, or none, as a country we actually know how. Means, motive, and opportunity. What we don’t have is political will, because we’ve allowed religious forced-birth fanatics to infiltrate every level of government down to the school boards.

The great majority of women vote with their choices of contraception — if allowed to. They all need what I had: someone to teach them early; the means to take care of themselves — access to reproductive health care at every level from contraception onwards including abortion, miscarriage, and birth so those events don’t kill them; and determination about their own futures.

The majority of women will, unless forced otherwise, will only have the number of children they can afford to rear for the next 20+ years of their lives. We are not stupid. We just need to be educated to expand our knowledge about “how many we can afford” to include the whole Earth.

But we won’t get anywhere if we deny how powerful the procreative urge can be, or conversely use it as a means to enslave women.

[Think. Again.]

84. I agree about how forced parenthood can be used to enslave women...

...but I believe we're adults here, so we have to admit there is a vast difference between satisfying our innate sexual drive and choosing procreation, even considering the hell that is the overturning of Roe v. Wade.

That's probably why the religious leaders keep pushing for only the "missionary" position, in other words, anyone can have a great time in lots of ways without causing insemination.

[Diamond_Dog]

82. It keeps women dependent on men and out of the work force.

When I worked and was single, many of the older guys there told me I was “taking a job away from a man who has to support a family.”

[BlueSky3]

108. Yes, I

heard that, too. It made me want to support female workers even more.

[captain queeg]

9. Well said. I had been neutral about the subject seeing the benefits of not having children both for myself and earth

We were older and my wife got the itch for a kid. As it turned out we discovered that wasn’t going to happen so started looking into adoption. We ended up adopting an infant from Vietnam. I felt like it covered a lot ground, we could experience the “joys” of raising a child and not be adding to the world population. There are millions of children already here without parents. I don’t know how they turn out, humans are adaptable so most will survive and probably many who are adopted don’t do any better but I think my son has done better in a family setting so I think in a way I’ll leave the world a little better off when I’m gone.

There have been a lot of sacrifices and I don’t really regret them. I certainly understand and approve of people who have chosen not to have children. For those who want children but are concerned about the impact consider adoption. The one thing about people having children that annoys me and I hope I don’t offend anyone here, I’ve seen couples continue to reproduce till they get a son. It seems like an ego feeding leftover from bygone days. But that’s just my opinion and I’d better add that the same thing applies to wanting a daughter. I think that was the case with one of my brothers but in the end, with the advances in birth control it is a personal decision. I’d encourage people to realize it’s a personal decision that can effect the entire world.

[MineralMan]

17. What a wonderful memory you have!

I'm afraid I don't remember the post you're referring to. But, I'm old, so...

[Iggo]

24. Okay, that's enough.

[CrispyQ]

11. Women get people's unsolicited opinion about their childlessness even more.

In my experience, other women were the worst culprits in thinking they could ask me why I didn't have kids & then make judgements or pronouncements on how much I was missing. Men, OTOH, usually only asked when they were interviewing me for a job, although women managers did that, too, & when you remind the questioner that that question is illegal, you rarely get a call back. I was even asked that by an attorney once. That interview ended early.

Six billion miracles are enough. I bought a bunch of ecology bumper stickers to put on the back of my truck back around the turn of the century but my husband vetoed the idea. That was one of them. Another one I liked was Urban sprawl - cut down all the trees & name streets after them.

There's an 8-billion pound elephant in the room but we don't want to talk about it. We have a global economic system built on continual growth but we live in a finite system. We are consuming our planet for the profit of a few.

Frozen juice concentrate has become harder & harder to find in my area, & the berry blends are gone completely. Has anyone else noticed this?

[MineralMan]

18. That's definitely true.

[JustAnotherGen]

88. This is January 2018

Verizon Wireless Headquarters - ie a lot of pro women. There was a young woman maybe 30 - no ring on her finger - who I would see in the cafeteria. We are fixing our coffee and she says out of the blue:

"Do you have kids?". Like Random.

Me: No.

Her - irritated, shocked and apalled -

Oh my god WHY NOT?

Well, I just miscarried twins and didn't get married until I was 39. I didn't want to have children out of wedlock.

Then I walked away. Noticed two littles on her keychain as I walked away.

It wasn't deliberate -but I was raised to believe that a child needs two parents. Doesn't matter to me if they match or not!

Ask stupid questions - get judgmental answers.

[eppur_se_muova]

12. Those of us who teach leave a legacy of students taught. Children seem less necessary then.

If you want to have children to pass on what you have learned in life, remember that is a cultural legacy, not a genetic one, and there may be other ways. If all our knowledge were passed to our children biologically , it would be different.

To be a little less polite, it's important to (help) raise mature, responsible, capable adults, not merely to have children. Even the lowest vermin can reproduce their somatic form; it's nothing to be that impressed by (and the lowest organisms on the evolutionary tree tend to produce the most offspring).

[patphil]

13. Not having children is a personal decision.

Other people's opinions regarding that decision are irrelevant.
I think it's more selfish to have a large family. The more children you have, the more resources you consume, and the more pollution you put out into the environment.
We've already surpassed 8 billion people. As the population rises, our children's future diminishes.

[Polly Hennessey]

14. I made my decision not to have children and have not

regretted it, not once. Would make the same decision again, if given the choice.

[question everything]

15. And yet we hear about populations getting older with no young people to fill posts

In this country Social Security and Medicare funds are in jeopardy because there are not enough working people to contribute. There are shortage of employees everywhere. Pharmacies have to close because there are not enough pharmacists.

There is shortage of workers to take care of older populations.

Some countries offer special incentives for people to have children.

I don’t know the answer but it seems that just stopping reproduction is not that simple.

[1WorldHope]

26. There are plenty of already born persons who would love these jobs that you speak of.

But those people are kept away and called terrorists and rapists by our finest.
I remember the discussions of over population when I was in elementary school. I believed it then, and I believe it now.

[question everything]

110. And then what? California and New Mexico suffer from chronic shortage of water

Until this last winter the Colorado River, lake Meade, the Salt Lake and many others were running low and dry.

Resources are limited in this country, too.

[Random Boomer]

28. Growth is a Ponzi scheme

There are limits to growth and when we hit them, the bill comes due. Someone has to pay for the overshoot.

Degrowth is necessary if we're to have any hope of saving our current ecosphere. As it is, our falling population rate may not have come fast enough or soon enough. So be it. At least I tried.

I'm willing to accept the consequences for not having had children, and for all the other people who made that same choice. At 70, I'm doing okay on my own, but I'm fully aware that my final years may be "uncomfortable" without sufficient people around to care for the aging Boomer generation. No regrets.

[Stargazer99]

30. The business environment will need less and less employees as time goes by

they complain about lack of employees and all the homeless people (they are not all druggies) I see tell me business wants low wage employees....not necessarily more employees...just cheaper labor by desperate people poor and having to feed their children . If employees are scarce why do we have so many homeless including children attending schools.
I remember the comment several months ago by one of the rich that employees were getting too demanding and it was time to increase unemployment. Oh, you didn't hear about that one? Because the owners of your society shut him up within 2 days.

[TBF]

98. There are plenty of people for jobs - the issue is whether greedy owners will pay them. nt

[Kaleva]

16. In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't make any difference

if a person or couple has children or not. The effect is so negilable, their presence or lack of presence won't have an impact on climate change.

[MineralMan]

19. Well, of course one person's choice does not affect

global population at all. That's pretty easy to understand. It's the collective choices that matter.

[obamanut2012]

20. Thank you -- I knew at 12 I didn't want children

Everyone loled at me and I was very bullied by family and society to ahve them, even after I acme out. Same for my wife. My BFF also has none. We have been the cool aunts, and that's been enough.

I have been told so many times that I'm selfish because I didn't ahve kids. lol. No, I'm happy and fulfilled with my life and career.

Thanks for posting.

[MineralMan]

21. Thanks for your reply.

It's odd how people react.

[Johnny2X2X]

22. I made this choice too

And I like kids and see that I am missing out on things without them. But I am also getting to an age where I am thankful that I don't have to worry about the world my children are going to inherit. I still worry for humanity, but I am spared the additional worry.

[Random Boomer]

29. Life is filled with choices

I could have born children, I could have joined the military, I could have become an epidemiologist or a computer programmer, I could have lived in a dozen different places or countries.

You can't live all those lives, so regret and "what if?" is baked into the system. Of all the decision forks I've taken, choosing not to have children is the one with the fewest regrets.

[IbogaProject]

25. Another choice

We had one. As my friend said a year b4, "there will never be enough progressive intelligent people, you have to try". It is going to take massive efforts to adapt let alone try and improve this catastrophy. Our challange is this is happening way faster than the last major temp shift events.

[Quakerfriend]

27. Thank you for your reflections on this MM.

Several years ago Bernie brought up the need for population control & was instantly derided.

At this point, I think those who choose not to have kids should be given huge tax breaks !

[MineralMan]

33. I'm not sure about the tax breaks.

I've never complained about taxes. I don't always like them, but they're how we pay for our society.

[surfered]

31. I think the point was climate change will have catastrophic consequences,

Unless there is a significant technological breakthrough pretty soon, the result will be a worse quality of life for those that follow.

We’re already witnessing increased migration as a result. Sea level rise will exacerbate that and there will be more heat related deaths, drought, flood, famine, war, infectious diseases and higher insurance rates.

FEMA is already out of money and the peak of an expected record hurricane season is yet to come .

We expect the next generation would be better off, like we were. Climate change will definitely alter that expectation. I wish I was wrong.

[MineralMan]

41. You're right, of course.

Climate change is directly related to human activity, it seems. I have no answers.

[surfered]

43. We have no children either and I often worry about the end.

I hope you have a support system.

[MineralMan]

50. I do, as far as that is possible.

I also have a health directive, as does my wife. We have no desire to extend our lives beyond the point where we are able to enjoy at least something.

[Bayard]

34. Between all of them, my siblings produced 6 kids

I figure that's enough to cover me too.

I decided early on that my first husband was not daddy material. Plus, my family genetics are pretty terrible. Forty years ago, nobody talked about climate change much. But now, I worry about the world children are inheriting. I'm concerned for my nieces and nephews.

[MineralMan]

37. I'm concerned, too. I was concerned back in 1965.

Not enough people were concerned, I think.

[rubbersole]

35. China had a one child only policy....

...because of the staggering overpopulation in that country. People and the resulting pollution caused by them were the canary in the coal mine for the rest of the world. One child only didn't solve much.

[MineralMan]

38. That's true, as far as it goes.

The results of social engineering on that scale are unpredictable.

[Hekate]

78. There were a couple of terrible, terrible flaws in their plan. #1 No social safety net for old people...

… Just their sons. Girls marry away from the family, and sons remain and have financial responsibility for their parents. Of course, the sons are supposed to get married and bring in a wife to help, etc.

This by the way is the cultural model in other societies as well, even a democracy such as India. More on that later.

#2 The one-child policy was top-down and cruelly enforced. There are credible reports of forced abortions for non-compliance.

In order to comply, and also to maximize their own personal family obligations to have sons, couples practiced sex-selection during pregnancy, and sometimes hushed-up infanticide after. When Western couples looked for adoptable children, it was girls who were available in the orphanages.

#3 Twenty years on, where were the brides to be found? There’s some dispute in different quarters, but it looks like up to 20 million girls are “missing” from the age-cohort.

As for India, a democracy, for as long as I can remember the government has tried education and persuasion regarding family planning, but #1 remains their cultural model for a safety net. Dowries are required for girls, too. As ultrasound equipment became common in village clinics, a lot of Indian couples made the un-coerced choice to maximize their future in favor of sons. The results are similar — where are the brides to come from?

[haele]

36. I am trying to raise other people's kids to better aware and

To be better problem solvers. To be more kind, more concerned, to make due with less. To be less distracted and more patient.
It's difficult, in a way I didn't experience when my parents raised me.
I didn't have so much of the world in front of me, but I had time and the ability to find the world through other people's written experience, written in such a way I would picture that experience in my mind, and could almost feel the emotions, the environment, imagine the tastes, smells and sounds. The world was never presented to me as a totally passive receptacle, even if I was watching TV or a movie; I had to use my brain.

My daughter, my granddaughters don't have time the way I did. They have the world at their fingertips, but it's without experience behind it. It's pushed at them, through constant notifications from media competing for their attention. Getting to get them to go out without the world in their pocket is difficult, especially when just going out in nature to get some time is now considered "dangerous", and even my daughter, whom I tried to raise to be fearlessly curious, has the overwhelmed urge to be able to get a hold of her daughters at all times. In case of emergency, of course.
There is little time for contemplating in their world. There also seems to be an active move to rein in imagination by media advertisers, and to keep a tracker on one at all times by those that make money on consumers.
There's a certain freedom to just leaving one's devices and getting "lost", whether it's in the city or out in nature. I am saddened to think that many of younger generations don't attend to the value of time until it's out of their control.They don't realize how much time we had, even if we didn't have all the technology to make our work easier and "improve our productivity". I have the same sadness for the quality of nature, of "going out and getting lost" I had growing up, where I could experience the different seasons of the world without intrusion when we would go out just to walk and picnic away from hustle and distractions on weekends after chores. Even if it was just to a park or greenbelt.

There's a difference between going out to seek quiet, nature, or time and having it doled out to you. This isn't a "kids these days" observation, this is a society at large observation. There seems to be an active push to leash large numbers of the population in general, from rural to urban, so we can be more reliable and reactive to those who want to influence our actions for their profit. They have always wanted to previously, they just have more immediate tools to do so.

Haele

[MineralMan]

39. It's all really complex, isn't it?

I have no answers.

[Diamond_Dog]

40. Have kids or don't have kids. It's everyone's personal decision IMO and I support having that choice 100%

The only gripe I have is people who complain about their tax money going to support public schools when they have no kids. (and I have family members who do this). My answer is always “I’m sure childless people paid taxes that went towards YOUR education.”

[rubbersole]

46. I've heard this from rw family members (maga brother).

I asked him if he supported his taxes going to pro sport venues. That's "good for the community". You can't reason with this shit. Obviously the tax dollars spent on his education were wasted.

[MotownPgh]

102. Listen, I've heard people complain about

paying school taxes after their own KIDS HAVE GRADUATED from the school system. Hilarious.

[Diamond_Dog]

104. Arg ...

[calimary]

42. We took the guidance of ZPG (Zero Population Growth)

which basically recommended replacing yourselves. Two kids only. So that’s what we did. One of each. My husband later told me the main reason he didn’t want any more kids was that he saw what pregnancy did to me and what an ordeal it became for me. And he said he didn’t think I should have to go through that again.

I married a good guy.

[MineralMan]

45. I considered that, and decided that

I'd make room for children of parents who had more than replacements.

The global effect was not noticeable.

[Diamond_Dog]

53. calimary, I wish more men were like your husband

and had more empathy for what women go through in pregnancy. I think a lot of men just shrug and say it’s our duty.

Tim Ryan, my former Congressman, in an interview, said much the same thing. He was asked why he switched his view many years ago from being anti-abortion to being pro-choice. He said after he saw what his wife went through having children it changed him.

[calimary]

80. It really nailed it into place permanently for me.

I had always been pro-choice. I just always felt that it’s nobody’s business except for those DIRECTLY involved. But CRIMINY!!! When I went through one pregnancy and then another one, that belief became set IN STONE. My takeaways were one daughter and one son and one solid, locked-in absolute: that no woman should have to go through that unless she wants to.

[Diamond_Dog]

81. Even a normal pregnancy is trauma to a woman's body.

I don’t think enough folks realize that. No government should ever force that on a woman if she doesn’t want it!

[calimary]

83. No shit, Sherlock! And I went back for seconds.

But it’s HANDS-DOWN the hardest physical labor I’ve ever even imagined. Bar NONE. My husband told me we were gonna stop at two before I even got out of the maternity ward. He’d been there for the whole thing, twice, and decided that was enough. I was in total agreement, even while totally exhausted.

Besides, this couple my parents were longtime friends with had six kids. By the time the sixth baby arrived, Aunt Anne was sickly, dangerously depleted, skin ‘n’ bone, and never wore anything except her full-length robe for the rest of her life. That made such a big impression on me when I was a kid - I can’t even tell ya. And I remember looking at my uncle, a fit, attractive type-A man who always dressed up for work, and thinking - “WHY have you done that to her? WHY did you feel like that was okay? She’s damn near crippled. WHY did you do that to her?”

[Diamond_Dog]

85. My first labor lasted 40 hours start to finish.

I felt like I’d been run over by a Mack truck. I slept for 10 hours afterwards so exhausted they couldn’t wake me up. Not for the faint of heart!

[calimary]

87. I got lucky in that department.

Daughter took 5 hours. Son took 7 hours. And out they each came.

I worked to the bitter end, each time, til what I thought would be a quiet, relaxing, and uneventful two-week break before each due date. And both babies had different ideas. Determined to get out of there ahead of schedule, each of ‘em.

[Diamond_Dog]

91. Unbelievable. That poor woman.

[camartinwv]

44. Around the same time I made the decision not to reproduce for the exact same reason.

I actually thought I might not have any children but left myself leeway to have one. I was 16 years old when I came to that conclusion. I waited until I was 30 and chose to have one. Women who follow this path are pretty much considered heretics as in being burned at the stake. My own daughter holds an enormous grudge against me because she did not have siblings.

[MineralMan]

48. It's always an individual decision, or should be.

I've never objected to people having children. I just made a different choice. My two siblings had two children, each. My only objections are about those who scold people, either way.

[jimfields33]

101. My high school class had an unusually large amount of only children.

Each one had three to four themselves because they didn’t like being only children. It will be interesting how many children these kids have with more siblings. They are college aged now so we’ll find out in the next decade or so.

[genxlib]

47. I am fully in favor of whatever people choose for themselves

The only bad thing is that the people who are rational and mature enough to come this conclusions are often the people who would raise the best citizens.

Meanwhile you have the opposite end of the spectrum where people are having way too many kids.

I wonder if it starts to skew the gene pool.

[MineralMan]

49. That's the only sensible thing.

One of the most interesting trends I've seen is the right-wingers and their "quiver full" concept. Their motivation for having lots of children has racial and other questionable reasons behind it. That's troubling.

[Bettie]

112. Yeah....like this

Clip is from Ideocracy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=m8qiP1AkFwY

[Cheezoholic]

51. That sounds so "Un-DU'er" like to rail against someones personal decision like that. I did not see the thread but

unless the poster was inferring irresponsibility to others who did/have chosen to procreate put me down as one that states it's none of my damn business whether someone chooses to have children or not. I personally have 2 adopted children, my partners child form a former marriage and another we both adopted after we were married. Our adopted child was age 9 when we adopted her. Not enough people look to adopt older children and that's sad. She is a total joy and a wonderful young woman.

[MineralMan]

52. I agree. I am responsible only for my own choices.

I leave others to theirs.

[Dem2theMax]

55. I never wanted to have children. (A bit off topic.)

I am adopted. (Purchased at birth.) I've spent my entire life dealing with the trauma that being adopted brings to adoptees. It never goes away. I just spent one and a half years in adoption trauma therapy. For the first time in my life, I know who I am. All the pieces actually came together in the past week. I will be 68 in a few months.

My adoptive parents never should have been allowed to adopt. I watched them and their parenting examples, and knew I never wanted to be like them. And I was afraid that I would be, so I made the decision at a very young age to never have my own children, and to never adopt.

As I grew up and watched all the horrors in this world, I was even more determined to not bring any children into it. I was constantly pressured by family and friends as to when I would have kids. Never gave in.

It's taken me my entire life to find me. Not having children is not a loss. Not knowing who you are, is.

(For anyone who is interested, if you want to know more about adoption trauma, read a book called 'The Primal Wound.' It's a good place to start. Especially if you are an adoptee, or have adopted someone.)

[MineralMan]

57. Thank you for your reply.

It's a perspective that those of us who did not have your story cannot fully understand.

[Sogo]

56. I'm with you. I never brought children into the world, but

not for the same reason. It's more personal, psychological.

I don't believe, however, that you should be judgemental of those who have chosen to have children. Afterall, it's some of those children who are going to grow up and solve the current problems one day.

To each his/her own....

[MineralMan]

58. I have no brief with those who did have children.

It's a personal choice, at least in most cases. I made mine. They made theirs. I hope people will always be able to make those choices.

[DENVERPOPS]

59. Hey MM

glad you posted your commentary..........Thanks!

Reading all the diverse comments in the replies, I thought there were a lot of good discussions, with many different points!

After reading all the comments, it made me think of Colorado's Governor Dick Lamm's saying that the next generation was going to be the first generation that wasn't better off than the previous generation. And his comment was thirty or forty years ago???????

It also made me think of the ludicrous increase in costs, over the last 30-40 years, to send your kid(s) to college.

I don't think anyone here would dispute the incredible costs of raising a kid in today's world, or the costs we see of trying to feed all the kids/people around the world........

[obamanut2012]

66. Older Gen X were teh first gen to have a lower SOL than the previous one

I am an older GenX. And, it is true.

[judesedit]

60. I'm with you. I do have children, but with the way the world is right now

I'm very happy I have no grandchildren. We're making up for those who have 8 and 9 children without a thought. Water is scarce now. Who knows what the future holds.

Not selfish at all. Matter of fact, imho, it's quite the opposite.

Enjoy your retirement.

[Charlie Chapulin]

61. Here, here!

At age 63 and childless, I too am ok with not having brought more humans into the world. Many times I’ve read, heard and/or consumed news on the state of humanity on this fragile and finite world and thought about friends who did reproduce and feel a pang of sorrow for the world they will inherit. The way I see it is there are actually about 8.5 billion too many of us, but we are here and who has the right to decide on thinning the herd. Malthusian genetics will ultimately take care of it, I guess. Which also causes me pangs of sorrow.

[Hekate]

62. A few years later (in '65 I was only 17) I made the decision to only have "replacements" i.e. 2 kids

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Population was then “only” 3.5 billion, I think. The same people starving now were starving then, give or take a few wars and pandemics.

Funny you should mention climate change, though — I distinctly remember science-based discussions back then of environmental devastation to come, and the examples used were based on the animal world.

* Islands where introduced rabbits or deer breed themselves into starvation. They eat everything and the island is denuded and destroyed. This is not an experiment, it is a repeated observation where it has happened.

* Terraria (or jars) where bacteria or something similarly small multiply like crazy until they use up all the oxygen and then die, leaving toxic substances behind.

*Oh, and here’s my favorite: the rat model. Rats trapped like that go crazy even when provided with food and so forth. Severe overcrowding breaks their brains.

Speaking of the rat experiments: have you ever read Brunner’s future-fic “Stand on Zanzibar” ? Written in the same era as when I read “The Population Bomb, “ I always recommend it when this topic comes up. Brunner took all the info then available (as the best authors do) and posited a world where severe overcrowding was, well, making us crazy.

I’m glad I had the two, and only two. My son had a vasectomy, so he made the same decision as you.

But here’s where I was completely wrong: I thought we had more time to get it right, but it turns out that as a species we blew it. Just about the time I started to think I wanted to write a letter to my great-grandchildren deeply apologizing for the climate change they were going to have to live with, I realized: it’s here right now. The turning point has happened in my lifetime, and the 3 grandsons I have (and all that there ever will be) are going to be living it. I’m sorry, kids, I’m truly sorry.

This is just by way of a conversation — believe me, I respect your decision.

[MineralMan]

71. I know. I didn't expect to see the crisis develop as it has.

Many are still in denial, and think there is no crisis. They are woefully incorrect.

It's a strange-feeling reality.

[Croney]

63. What is this choice of which you speak!

Most of you have had access to birth control your entire adult lives. My mother who died in 2021 at age 98 said she wouldn't have had five children if she'd have had a choice. When I had kids in the 60's nobody told me I didn't have to. Now I'll be 80 in a few months and I have 11 grandchildren and 11 great-grandchildren...with more to come as the grandchildren marry.

Yes, I made too many people. I tell them they don't have to make as many people as I did. Some listen, some laugh. I can't lead by example. I can only be sorry for the plight of women and try to fight for their reproductive rights.

[LoisB]

64. Unless it is a choice to do something that causes harm to others, I don't understand why a person's

personal choice/s is/are anyone else's business.

[bluescribbler]

67. As a young man, I decided not to have children, with the caveat that the right woman could convince me,

If she really wanted to. In the end, the right woman was even more determined than I not to have children. My reasoning was that every social problem humanity faced could be traced directly to too damn many people, and I was determined not to contribute to that. I have three siblings, and only my elder sister chose to have a child. Now I am 73 and my niece is 39. I was told, by a complete stranger no less, that I had a duty to carry on the family name. I told him to mind his own damn business.

[MineralMan]

72. Yes. I have had to tell more than one person that.

Makes 'em mad, doesn't it.

[Arne]

68. If someone points out that an evil stupid person

has 10 or 13 kids and the intelligent kind person has none,
it worries me.
When someone asks, and they always do, we say we love
having pets but no kids.

[Think. Again.]

73. Things always seem to reduce to the lowest common denominator...

...so I guess eventually, evil and stupid will be the dominate genetic line.

See the movie 'Idiocracy'.

[Arne]

74. When I recently saw the documentary

on Eugenics and who pushed it and who they decided
had to be sterilized, it brought up the Nazi master race.

Humans may Evolve, they could also Devolve.

[Think. Again.]

76. If entropy has anything to do with it, devolution here we come.

[lakeguy]

70. Not having children is good for the environment

I have no trouble paying taxes for education and other benefits for other people's children (would gladly pay more!), but not having kids is one of the best things we can do to fight climate change.

https://www.lunduniversity.lu.se/article/four-lifestyle-choices-most-reduce-your-carbon-footprint

My partner and I are child free, but we do have two cats. They still have a climate footprint, but it's quite a bit smaller in comparison.

[Arne]

77. Pawprint

[sarchasm]

79. I too made the same decision. I turned 70 this year.

[TexasBushwhacker]

86. I would have adopted or become a foster parent

if it had worked out that way. I have some pretty funky genes in my family and didn't want to inflict them on a child.

[betsuni]

89. I never wanted children, never did and neither did my two siblings.

Once we were all together having dinner and my brother's girlfriend asked why. Brother said it was like the "Alien" movies, reproduction must be prevented to stop the monsters. Heh.

[Unwind Your Mind]

103. I feel that

Both of my parents are narcissists. I’m a therapy veteran so I’m better now 😉

I chose not to have kids because I felt I wasn’t equipped to raise a healthy human.

I probably could have done it when I was older, but still no regrets

[betsuni]

106. Narcissists! Yes, same.

[joanbarnes]

90. same vow

I succumbed to pressure and had one child, in her 30's now and I fear for her future. She is not interested in making babies.

[Ohioboy]

92. You were praciticing freedom

Often those that preach freedom don't want to let others have it. You did what was right for you. I stand by you for doing your life your way.

[senseandsensibility]

94. The fact that others would criticize you for doing something

that does not negatively affect them in any way and in some ways is very beneficial for the planet is odd. Don't understand it at all. It might be different if you were asking everyone to do the same thing.

[NH Ethylene]

95. In those days it must have seemed to violate the whole purpose of life.

But now we are far more enlightened and raising a family is not the only way to have a happy and productive life. Given that, I think some of the protests about being childless are based on guilt and fear. Our future on this earth is very uncertain right now and we who have children and grandchildren are sad, sort-of sorry, and fearful for them. Perhaps urging others to have babies is a form of denial.

[waterwatcher123]

96. It is not just population size - rich countries and people are out-sized greenhouse gas generators.

https://www.oxfamamerica.org/press/press-releases/richest-1-emit-as-much-planet-heating-pollution-as-two-thirds-of-humanity/

[pansypoo53219]

99. my cats + my art are my babies. and then there is my multitude of adopted collections.

[bluboid]

100. whoa, thank you Mineral Man...

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well put - couldn't be stated any plainer - as a 60's generation female, I count my lucky stars that we were able to fight for & win the CHOICE to have children or not.

[Happy Hoosier]

109. Your choice, of course. My main concern...

Is that the current Social Security and Medicare models do not work with a large aging population and a smaller working population. We‘ll need to address that in some fashion. I‘m worried that the way we‘ll address that is to let older Americans die in poverty.

[MineralMan]

113. Well, as long as seniors vote...

I did not give that a moment's thought when I was 20 and made my decision. I still don't.

[Happy Hoosier]

114. You may be in a position to not worry about it.

I‘m 10 years from retirement. I remain concerned that the GQP guts these programs. I could survive without them… but it would be a very different retirement.

My wife and I have one kid… below “replacement” level, but still got to be a Dad, which was something I always wanted to do.

[hunter]

115. Saying that the world is overpopulated by humans is a non-sequitur.

The sky is blue. And then what?

Deciding not to have children is an individual action but it's not an actual solution to the problem at hand.

There are eight billion people on the planet. What are we all going to do about that?

It's not an ethical position to do nothing, simply acquiescing to some horrible reality where billions of us are going to suffer and die prematurely, hoping or simply assuming it's not going to be us.

We know how to halt population growth without wars, starvation, and pestilence.

Among these ways are the economic and political empowerment of women, universal access to birth control, and realistic sex education. It's no coincidence that "conservative" religions and ideologies oppose these things.

Affluent nations with declining populations can solve their "demographic crisis" not by having more babies but by welcoming immigrants. "Conservatives" in many nations reject or abuse immigrants.

One of the more effective ways of dealing with overpopulation is to reject these conservative religions and ideologies and convince others tho do the same.

We have all the tools we need, technological and political, to create a truly sustainable human civilization and avoid a horrendous involuntary collapse of the human population. We just have to do it.

One way we can do it here in the United States is to support the Democratic Party and reject those religions and ideologies, on the left and the right, that only want to see the world burn, perversely imagining that "their people" will eventually come out on top.