Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member
War on Christmas (cartoon) (Original Post) marmar Dec 2012 OP
I like it nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #1
nadin, please tell Mika, I only watch "Morning Joe" for entertainment. saidsimplesimon Dec 2012 #8
She's no family nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #10
sorry nadin, should have known better, I'm the brock of a world wide family. saidsimplesimon Dec 2012 #12
No problem nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #13
K&R MotherPetrie Dec 2012 #2
I don't see any cartoon and it's finished loading? xtraxritical Dec 2012 #3
I see no cartoon either - could someone please provide a link? We People Dec 2012 #22
What is the name of your Federal Holiday December 25th. dipsydoodle Dec 2012 #4
Saturnalia. TahitiNut Dec 2012 #7
As you well know dipsydoodle Dec 2012 #9
Io Saturnalia! deutsey Dec 2012 #28
More accurate that "Saturnalia" would be "Dies Natalis of Sol Invictus." Towlie Dec 2012 #36
So December is ALL about Christmas? MessiahRp Dec 2012 #29
Exactly. For 30 years our family has celebrated the Solstice, which is generally on Dec. 22. When Nay Dec 2012 #32
"Pagans WHO had their holiday stolen. . ." y'mean RVN VET Dec 2012 #34
hmmm handmade34 Dec 2012 #5
Popular idea, but probably not true D Gary Grady Dec 2012 #14
Compromise for conversion xxxsdesdexxx Dec 2012 #15
Yeah, in fact, I'd say "definitely false". AverageJoe90 Dec 2012 #20
Read the post above yours MessiahRp Dec 2012 #30
The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors, by Kersey Graves, [1875], at sacred-texts.com Ghost in the Machine Dec 2012 #23
There's also Mithras. jamtoday Dec 2012 #25
"We wish you a Merry Mithrasmas! We wish you a Merry Mithrasmas! We wish you a Merry Mithrasmas!..." baldguy Dec 2012 #27
I know I'm ready to wage war on Christmas! Lady Freedom Returns Dec 2012 #6
I don't think I see the problem. Flatpicker Dec 2012 #11
+10 (NT) reACTIONary Dec 2012 #16
the problem handmade34 Dec 2012 #17
Sure but Flatpicker Dec 2012 #18
The problem is Chico Man Dec 2012 #33
Completely agree with you. Flatpicker Dec 2012 #38
+1 uponit7771 Dec 2012 #19
Addicts. Early on. n/t jtuck004 Dec 2012 #21
Another good War on Xmas cartoon: Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2012 #24
The War on Chanukah .... Mustellus Dec 2012 #26
What about the War on Festivus for the rest of us. Historic NY Dec 2012 #31
Hogfather PatrynXX Dec 2012 #35
+1 nt ProudProgressiveNow Dec 2012 #37


(7,888 posts)
8. nadin, please tell Mika, I only watch "Morning Joe" for entertainment.
Sat Dec 1, 2012, 05:19 PM
Dec 2012

The only serious conversations on that show occur when she, or her father, are allowed to express any newsworthy content. Also, I appreciate her support, and willingness to hang out with these troglidites.

(My thanks for advise to avoid Ambian for my sleepless nights.)



(154,021 posts)
13. No problem
Sat Dec 1, 2012, 05:47 PM
Dec 2012

Dad had some fun with border protection when Zbigniew was part of the Carter administration. It was for the same reason.

We People

(619 posts)
22. I see no cartoon either - could someone please provide a link?
Sun Dec 2, 2012, 02:03 AM
Dec 2012

Or are xtracritical and I the only ones who can't see it? I'd really like to see a cartoon on this subject!


(42,239 posts)
9. As you well know
Sat Dec 1, 2012, 05:25 PM
Dec 2012

its Christmas Day. If you think it should be named otherwise then I can only suggest you make represenations to the relevant authorities over there.

Good luck with that.


(5,405 posts)
29. So December is ALL about Christmas?
Sun Dec 2, 2012, 10:47 AM
Dec 2012

Tell people who celebrate Hanukkah or Kwanzaa that. Tell the Pagans whom had their holiday stolen and corrupted by Christians that.

Here's a general thought. Christmas IS a holiday. So saying Happy Holidays INCLUDES well wishes to Christians as well as to other religions. It's pretty assholish to demand others submit to talking about YOUR holiday when they have their own going on. Happy Holidays covers everything at once in a peaceful, inclusive way.


(12,051 posts)
32. Exactly. For 30 years our family has celebrated the Solstice, which is generally on Dec. 22. When
Sun Dec 2, 2012, 12:01 PM
Dec 2012

I say "Happy Holidays" I include my holiday, Jewish holidays, Christmas, New Year, Boxing Day, Kwanzaa, and even Thanksgiving. I have no problem with other people wishing me "Merry Christmas" even though I don't technically celebrate the birth of Jesus, and I wish other people would understand that many others they meet do not celebrate their holidays but will join in a general "happy holidays" for everyone in the spirit of the season. A winter celebration of some sort has been around for many thousands of years in order to get the community through the dark days of winter. Never mind that the original holiday was a pagan one, stolen by Christians, as others have noted.


(492 posts)
34. "Pagans WHO had their holiday stolen. . ." y'mean
Sun Dec 2, 2012, 12:10 PM
Dec 2012

Hey, it's the former English teacher in me!

As far as the assholishness, I agree. Even Bill O'Reilly, apparently, used to agree. When he started the "war on Christmas" bulldoody, his web site advertised -- are you ready -- "Happy Holiday" cards" to wish your friends and family a joyous holiday.

According to Dr. Sheldon Cooper, Jesus -- if he existed at all - was most likely born in the summer. I think all this "Christmas" crap is about his brother, James; but it's been called "Christmas" because "Jamesmas" was too much of a tongue twister.


(22,749 posts)
5. hmmm
Sat Dec 1, 2012, 04:17 PM
Dec 2012

one version to think about... (must often consider the source)

"How Did Christmas Come to Be Celebrated on December 25?"

"...Roman pagans first introduced the holiday of Saturnalia, a week long period of lawlessness celebrated between December 17-25. During this period, Roman courts were closed, and Roman law dictated that no one could be punished for damaging property or injuring people during the weeklong celebration. The festival began when Roman authorities chose “an enemy of the Roman people” to represent the “Lord of Misrule.” Each Roman community selected a victim whom they forced to indulge in food and other physical pleasures throughout the week. At the festival’s conclusion, December 25th, Roman authorities believed they were destroying the forces of darkness by brutally murdering this innocent man or woman.

...In the 4th century CE, Christianity imported the Saturnalia festival hoping to take the pagan masses in with it. Christian leaders succeeded in converting to Christianity large numbers of pagans by promising them that they could continue to celebrate the Saturnalia as Christians....

....Christians had little success, however, refining the practices of Saturnalia. As Stephen Nissenbaum, professor history at the University of Massachussetts, Amherst, writes, “In return for ensuring massive observance of the anniversary of the Savior’s birth by assigning it to this resonant date, the Church for its part tacitly agreed to allow the holiday to be celebrated more or less the way it had always been.” The earliest Christmas holidays were celebrated by drinking, sexual indulgence, singing naked in the streets (a precursor of modern caroling), etc.......

D Gary Grady

(133 posts)
14. Popular idea, but probably not true
Sat Dec 1, 2012, 05:58 PM
Dec 2012

The notion of a connection between Saturnalia and Christmas has been around for a very long time, but from what I've read there are good reasons to doubt it. For one thing, while Saturnalia was celebrated for varying lengths of time starting December 17, it apparently never ended later than December 23.


(213 posts)
15. Compromise for conversion
Sat Dec 1, 2012, 06:21 PM
Dec 2012

Read up on "Sol Invictus" here

Since Christians wanted more people to accept Christianity, and because pagans already celebrated December 25th as the Sun God's birthday, it was a convenient compromise for the Christians to change Jesus Christ's birthday to December 25th.



(10,745 posts)
20. Yeah, in fact, I'd say "definitely false".
Sun Dec 2, 2012, 12:25 AM
Dec 2012

It's an interesting little myth, but indeed, that's really all it is, is just a myth.


(5,405 posts)
30. Read the post above yours
Sun Dec 2, 2012, 10:50 AM
Dec 2012

Christians did swipe the Saturnalia date because they couldn't control Pagan Celebrations and they conveniently moved Christ's birthday to fully co-opt the holiday and make it a propaganda machine. That is no myth.

Ghost in the Machine

(14,912 posts)
23. The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors, by Kersey Graves, [1875], at sacred-texts.com
Sun Dec 2, 2012, 04:15 AM
Dec 2012
[h2]The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors[/h2]
by Kersey Graves, 1875, at sacred-texts.com

[center]CHAPTER VIII.[/center]


DIVESTED of all explanation, the announcement of the fact that the time of the birth of many of the incarnated Gods and Saviors of antiquity was fixed at the same period, and this period the twenty-fifth of December, celebrated all over Christendom as the birthday of Jesus Christ, would sound marvelously strange, especially when it is noticed that this period formerly dated the birth of a new year—the birth of King Sol. And when we find that the ancient pagans were in the habit of celebrating this venerated twenty-fifth of December as the birthday of their Gods in the same manner Christians now celebrate it as the birthday of Christ, we are driven to admit that something more than mere fortuitous accident must be adduced to account for the coincidence.

According to Dr. Lightfoot, the temple of Jerusalem was employed in celebrating the birthday of a pagan God (Adonis) on the very night Christians assign for the birth of Christ. And Robert Taylor informs us that nearly all the nations of the East were once in the habit of rising at midnight to celebrate the birthday of their Gods, on the twenty-fifth of December. And to this statement Mr. Higgins adds that, "At the first moment after midnight of the twenty-fourth of December, the ancient nations celebrated the accouchement of the queen of heaven and celestial virgin, and the birth of the God Sol, the Infant Savior, and the God of Day.

Bacchus of Egypt, Bacchus of Greece, Adonis of Greece, Chrishna of India, Chang-ti of China, Chris of Chaldea, Mithra of Persia, Sakia of India, Jao Wapaul (a crucified Savior of ancient Britain), were all born on the twenty-fifth of December, according to their respective histories. Chrishna is represented to have been born at midnight on the twenty-fifth of the month Savarana, which answers to our December, and millions of his disciples celebrated his birthday by decorating their houses with garlands and gilt paper, and the bestowment of presents to friends. The Rev. Mr. Barret tells us, "It was once common for the women in Rome to perambulate the streets on the twenty-fifth of December, singing in a loud voice, "Unto us a child is born this day."






(36,649 posts)
27. "We wish you a Merry Mithrasmas! We wish you a Merry Mithrasmas! We wish you a Merry Mithrasmas!..."
Sun Dec 2, 2012, 07:20 AM
Dec 2012

"...And a Happy New Year!"

Lady Freedom Returns

(14,120 posts)
6. I know I'm ready to wage war on Christmas!
Sat Dec 1, 2012, 04:30 PM
Dec 2012

The idea of Christmas has now become just like that green sign in the cartoon. Of course if you look and many of the churches out there now it does not really surprise me.


(894 posts)
11. I don't think I see the problem.
Sat Dec 1, 2012, 05:41 PM
Dec 2012

No matter how you slice it,
Consumption creates demand that creates jobs.

Where those jobs are is a problem, but, a reduction of consumption would put more people out of work.

So I guess, the modern take on Christmas is a good thing for the populations physical health, if not their spiritual health.


(22,749 posts)
17. the problem
Sat Dec 1, 2012, 08:06 PM
Dec 2012

consumerism comes at a substantial cost... to the environment and to the emotional well being of most folks.

"As Consumerism Spreads, Earth Suffers, Study Says"

"...Rising consumption has helped meet basic needs and create jobs," Christopher Flavin, president of Worldwatch Institute said in a statement to the press. "But as we enter a new century, this unprecedented consumer appetite is undermining the natural systems we all depend on, and making it even harder for the world's poor to meet their basic needs."

The report addresses the devastating toll on the Earth's water supplies, natural resources, and ecosystems exacted by a plethora of disposable cameras, plastic garbage bags, and other cheaply made goods with built in product-obsolescence, and cheaply made manufactured goods that lead to a "throw away" mentality.

"Most of the environmental issues we see today can be linked to consumption," said Gary Gardner, director of research for Worldwatch. "As just one small example, there was a story in the newspaper just the other day saying that 37 percent of species could become extinct due to climate change, which is very directly related to consumption..."


(894 posts)
18. Sure but
Sat Dec 1, 2012, 08:13 PM
Dec 2012
consumerism comes at a substantial cost... to the environment and to the emotional well being of most folks.

So does mass poverty and homelessness.

Until green jobs take over for the number of lost jobs due to reduced consumption, I could not advocate reduced consumption.

I want to see something better, but I'm not going to condone the problems that a sudden stop of consumption would cause.

Chico Man

(3,001 posts)
33. The problem is
Sun Dec 2, 2012, 12:04 PM
Dec 2012

The disproportionate amount of cheap imported goods that are consumed.

We are supporting manufacturing jobs overseas, and cheap, seasonal, non-union, below living standard labor here.


(320 posts)
26. The War on Chanukah ....
Sun Dec 2, 2012, 07:00 AM
Dec 2012

Its the anti-Jewish war waged each year by Fox news. To deny any other religion, and ensure that Jesus is the _only_ reason for the season...

The War on Quanza....
The War on New Years....


(5,668 posts)
35. Hogfather
Sun Dec 2, 2012, 12:26 PM
Dec 2012

I suggest both kids and adults watch this British television movie (bit long but it is on netflix stream too) and yes it's from Terry Prachett who incidentally has posed a controversial suggestion on assisted death. which I might not agree with but glad we are free to talk about it. Yes it's silly but it has one poise in it. The above. Oh bother and when the rich SOB is sobbing on the floor for a Reaper pretending to be the hogfather who's giving stuff away for free. What? isn't that what it's supposed to be about. Can't even get that out of Miracle on 34th Street. Kris is not in the habit of giving Macy's or Gimbels stuff out for free. Albeit the latter died an unfortunate death

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»War on Christmas (cartoo...