Graham: 'I think we're going over the cliff'

[dkf]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/02/graham-i-think-were-going-over-the-cliff/

[Rosa Luxemburg]

1. Send Graham over the cliff and we will hear the plop

we will watch from the top of the cliff

[dkf]

2. Where he goes we go.

We are attached to his leg.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

5. then we have to make sure

that we are not held to blame

[dkf]

13. You can avoid the blame but not the hurt.

[ProSense]

14. What hurt?

Fuck Graham. The hurt will be to Republicans.

This statement grossly misrepresents the reality, since the time will run out "to prevent more than $500 billion in tax increases and spending cuts" more than a year from now. We don't see all of these tax increases and spending cuts on January 1, as the article would lead readers to believe. They would only take place over the course of a full year if Congress and President Obama never reached a deal. For this reason, there is not much reason for concern that the failure to reach a deal by January 1 "could rattle the economy."

http://www.cepr.net/index.php/blogs/beat-the-press/another-front-page-washington-post-editorial-on-the-budget

Republicans are trapped, but I suspect the reason for posting Graham's point is to argue the Republican side.

"You can avoid the blame but not the hurt."

Yup, there it is.

[dkf]

16. 9.1% unemployment...that hurt.

And Graham isn't the issue as he isn't in the house.

[ProSense]

18. "And Graham isn't the issue as he isn't in the house. "

Relative to your OP, Graham is the "issue" because he's talking shit!

Reid: We Agree On How To Resolve 97-98 Percent Of Fiscal Cliff
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021809162

Geithner: Republicans Are In A ‘Tough Position’
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1915509

[dkf]

19. I'm just trying to get a read on what is happening.

So I can be prepared.

If you think this will be of no impact to you then good for you.

[bluestate10]

21. The middle class has been hurt for the last 40 years as it has taken over more and

more of the tax burden. Even if the wealthy get taken back to Reagan tax rates, they will be doing better than before that President. It is time to break the dynamic that the rich have in their minds that they will always profit from tax reform, as they have since Reagan. The rich should be grateful that they live in a society where their efforts are richly rewarded, they need to understand that a working society depends upon more that a select group of people accumulating more and more money. I will lose pretty size-ably if we go off the cliff, but I am willing to pay that price to establish an environment of tax fairness.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

24. the hurt has been going on for years

we used to have a surplus under Clinton - until Bush came along.

[putitinD]

3. Graham would have to come out of the closet, before he goes over a cliff

[bluestate10]

22. You shouldn't say that Graham is gay unless there is compelling information that he is.

I say this as a successful single man who hasn't had a girlfriend or children and am not gay. I want to maximize my career and recognize that I wouldn't have adequate time for a wife and/or children given my primary objective.

[a geek named Bob]

4. If the government does nothing...

Then we get the Clinton era tax rates.

I'm okay with that...

[daleanime]

6. And finally starts cutting the military budget.....

thats a win-win!

[a geek named Bob]

9. Maybe it's my Learning Disability...

but I'm just not seeing a problem here.

The GOP must be having conniptions.

A.) If the president doesn't just GIVE them what they want, the tax cuts expire and the cuts start in, and the GOP looks like idiots

B.) If the president gives them a few things, the negotiations will be public, forcing the GOP's radical position into the open, and they look like idiots or crooks

I'm looking forward to this one...

[ProSense]

7. Who gives a shit what that clown says?

Graham: Obama’s Plan A ‘Joke’ On Entitlements

Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) called President Obama's proposal to Republicans a "joke" when it comes to entitlement reform, during an appearance on CBS' "Face the Nation" Sunday. Graham has held that Republicans should agree to revenue increases as long as Democrats agree to entitlement reform.

"The president's plan, when it comes to entitlement reform, is just -- just quite frankly a joke," Graham said. "So I don't think they're serious about finding a deal."

Graham did talk about what entitlement reforms he wanted to see in a potential deal.

- more -

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/graham-obamas-plan-joke-on-entitlements

Republicans are idiots. They're trying to pretend that they don't care about going over the cliff because Democrats are threatening to do so. They have no leverage.

Republicans Would Rather Laugh Than Bargain...But once the laughter dies down
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021908853

Krugman: What Defines A Serious Deficit Proposal?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021914963

[Botany]

8. ATTN L Graham you guys lost so you don't get to set the rules of the game

Where was this little man when Dick Cheney said, "deficits did not matter?"

[mark eagledove]

10. If Graham went over a cliff the sound would be "poof"

As they say in England. Lindsay is a bloody poofer. I detest Graham. He gives poofers a bad name.

[Ikonoklast]

11. Graham also thinks a great many other silly things that matter not.

Next.

[dawg]

12. Ultimately, it's what ... 2% of GDP?

I would rather go over the cliff than agree to benefit reductions for Medicare. The Republicans would only use our compromise against us in the 2014 elections, and many would believe them.

I want to win or lose elections based on honest differences of policy. I don't want to lose a single vote because someone blames us for cutting Medicare and thinks the Republicans are the defenders of the program.

For that matter, I think the reason talks are currently stalled is because the Republicans were hoping Obama would propose the cuts. They are too chicken-shit to do it themselves. They don't want to be blamed, and were counting on the President to negotiate with himself just as he has done in the past.

It looks like things have changed.

[dkf]

15. 2.9% drag on growth, -0.5% gdp for 2013 (recession), and 9.1% unemployment.

Per CBO

[dawg]

17. Sudden, severe deficit reduction will do that.

Personally, I think the deficit is the least of our worries at the moment. This is political theater, and if we go over the cliff it will be a self-inflicted wound.

It will probably be the best politically possible option, though.

Our defense budget is obscenely bloated. But we'll never get cuts that large through anything other than sequestration.

And, as much as I don't want a sudden shock to the the economy, *all* of the Bush-era tax cuts should probably be allowed to expire. They were never affordable in the first place. A Republican Congress had 6 years to find offsetting spending cuts. They failed.

It would be best to gradually sunset *all* of the Bush tax cuts over five years or so, starting two years out. But if the cliff is the only way that it is politically possible to reverse this disastrous legacy of the Bush administration - so be it.

We can't run a 21st century economy, and police the world, on 17% of GDP. It just isn't possible.

[dkf]

20. I agree...it should be stepped into but planned now.

If you could incur that 2.9% hit over 4 years it would be more manageable.

[bluestate10]

23. Two quarters of contraction followed by real debt reduction and economic growth thereafter.

Middle class people are already suffering and that suffering will only increase if we stay on the current unsustainable path. I prefer to take the short term pain for sustained long term gains. One thing that is not being pointed out is that allowing the country to go off the fiscal cliff will mean that the debt ceiling won't have to be raised because the country will instantly start below the current limit and fall farther and farther below that limit as time goes forward.