Democracy Docket: WHAT HAPPENS IF ELECTION OFFICIALS REFUSE TO CERTIFY RESULTS?

[Fiendish Thingy]

(All caps title because so many folks are so confused and anxious about this issue)

WATCH THE WHOLE DAMN VIDEO!
(If you do, you’ll probably sleep better)

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P.S. Marc Elias is now a lawyer for the Harris campaign)

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. This is a very thorough look at election certification and I greatly appreciate the message.

I am pleased to know that Marc Elias is now working for the Harris campaign!

I have been quite concerned about what could happen if the elections don't get certified, but now I am quite relieved to see that deep preparations are happening and we will not be caught flat-footed.

[TommyT139]

2. Did I miss something?

This is a good video. Yet what I got is that there are many different locales where treasonous trumpers got seated where they can decline to certify an election.

In some states, they can be ordered to certify, or removed from the position. I would assume that would require higher-ups in the process to request these court orders, find a judge that will grant a writ of mandamus, and enforce it. That may involve lawsuits, which could easily take months.

And while the federal law is encouraging, wouldn't it be subject to recalcitrant states challenging it, as it is new? Three of the corrupt Supreme Court members were involved in the case that kept Al Gore out of office. (Somewhere an alternate timeline had President Gore, and climate change was softened, and life was better...but that ain't here.)

I don't necessarily expect a nine minute video to explain everything, but the fact that one [amazing] lawyer and his associates have been victorious up until now doesn't seem to justify what sounds like optimism.

[Fiendish Thingy]

3. Court action to obtain writs of mandamus would not take months

It didn’t take months to get writs in 2020 and 2022.

It doesn’t even take a lawsuit, simply a motion from a government official and the court can act immediately..

The CREW report released a couple of weeks ago details all the laws in swing states regarding certification refusal, as well as previous actions taken and current tools available for this year.

None of the incidents of certification refusal have involved or were even the jurisdiction of SCOTUS. Certification refusal has no connection to Bush v Gore, which involved candidates’ challenges to which ballots should be counted as valid, not certifying the total count of ballots already determined to be valid.

There could certainly be challenges under the new ECRA (that’s what it was written to cover). The new law has a judicial component already included to circumvent the time consuming ladder of appeals. My understanding is, If it gets to that point, the state wouldn’t be able appeal the panel’s ruling, , only one of the candidates could.

By my count, there are only two current JusticeS on SCOTUS who were seated for Bush v Gore, not three. In 2020, the current SCOTUS, minus KBJ, did not rescue or install Trump in the presidency, despite razor thin margins for Biden in several swing states. The immunity ruling was more an ideological ruling than a personal favor to Trump IMO. Aside from one, maybe two justices, this SCOTUS, as contemptible as the majority is, holds no personal loyalty to Trump.

The optimism isn’t justified only by this video, it is justified by vigilance and hard work by swing state officials, who have already fought this fight numerous times before and succeeded every time. Perhaps we should be thankful that the MAGA extremists tipped their hand with these dress rehearsal refusals, and now the states have even more tools at their disposal.

[TommyT139]

12. Clarifying

"By my count, there are only two current JusticeS on SCOTUS who were seated for Bush v Gore, not three."

I wasn't referring to seated justices, but rather others involved in the case: Roberts, Kavanaugh, and Barrett were working on the case in support of Bush, although Barrett only briefly.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/17/politics/bush-v-gore-barrett-kavanaugh-roberts-supreme-court/index.html

I don't think the "conservative" justices have to be Donald Trump fans to support the larger project of disempowering the administrative functions of government. That effort, most recently (and radically) expressed by Project 2025, has been long in the making. Trump has temporarily been very useful in that, even while his personality traits have brought scrutiny that I'd bet they (Heritage Fdn et al.) would rather have avoided. Some would be happier with a Mike Johnson, for instance, who's been more deeply involved, for far longer, with less drama.

Anyway, thanks for mention of the CREW report - I'll take a look.

[Demsrule86]

5. They can be prosecuted as well...welcome to DU.

[TommyT139]

13. Thanks

Thanks, but having seen how ineffective and arbitrary prosecution has been these past few years, I won't hold my breath.

[lees1975]

4. We are not without support in every state.

There are plenty of people keeping a hawk's eye on things. In 2022, they got to the two county supervisors in Arizona before the deadline, and forced them to certify the vote, with two of them now facing felony charges related to the incident. But the Sec. of State was able to force the certification without any opposition from far right wing judges. And one of those supervisors is now trying to plea bargain a sentence.

[Oopsie Daisy]

6. I have a suggestion!

[Fiendish Thingy]

8. Yes? And your suggestion is...?

[Emile]

7. President Biden remains President?

[Fiendish Thingy]

9. Yes, Biden will remain president until January 20, 2025.

Regardless of what happens in the aftermath of this years election.

Not sure how that ties into the issue of certification refusal.

[Emile]

10. Wouldn't he remain the President until the certification issue is settled?

[Fiendish Thingy]

11. No, his term ends on January 20, 2025 per the constitution

Congress is required to count and certify the electoral votes on January 6. The new ECRA (watch the damn video!) covers any potential objections/obstructions in congress, as well as in the states.

The road leading to the January 6 certification could be a bumpy one, but the video addresses every realistic potential scenario, and how the states are prepared to respond.

[TheBlackAdder]

14. They bankrupt themselves while spending the next 5 years trying unsuccessfully to stay out of prison.