A chilling estate sale, today

[babydollhead]

A friend invited me to a “free sale” of an estate nearby.
When we walked inside we are told everything is free. It’s a wreck, with all of the trappings of everyday life. Dressers full of clothes, house keys, kitchen still with food that was also up for grabs.
What happened to the family that lived there?
They have 2 trans sons, on the spectrum,
teenagers. They fled the country for Mexico yesterday, because they worried for the safety of their children.
Just left.
There were drivers licenses, medication, shampoo in the shower.
Like how Jews had to leave their homes with nothing. And then the people who went in and took anything they wanted
I’m crying for what is happening and the fear so many people will live with.
And for all the people that leave. Or want to leave. And all of the ones who stay.

[kimbutgar]

1. I was in Ross stores a couple a weeks ago and this couple was buying a big suitcase

Waiting in line I asked them if they are going on vacation. They answered no they have to leave the country before the 🍊💩🤡takes over. I apologized to them for my fellow American being such bigots. And I wished them luck.

[hlthe2b]

5. I have non-immigrant friends (with at least some $$) doing likewise...

It is truly unnerving.

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

38. I know some American born, researching possible other countries, JUST IN CASE

[tccturtle]

42. 👍

My husband and I are dung the same damn thing.

[Deep State Witch]

105. Same Here

Except that we have people that depend on us here, probably for their survival.

I have a friend who is leaving with her husband and going to an expat retirement community in Mexico. I don't blame them.

[Sky Jewels]

131. Some of my sibling in-laws are doing the same.

Two of my husband’s brothers and a sister and their partners/spouses are doing lots of research on living in Mexico as retirees.

[robbob]

88. 🍊 💩 🤡!!! 😂

You may have started something there!

[LearnedHand]

117. Side comment: I LOVE your "orange shit clown" emoji name

I laugh every time I see it and kept meaning to offer you a hat tip for it.

[hlthe2b]

2. I've been emotional all day, so I share in your tears...

I don't even know what to say.

[Dave Bowman]

3. That's horrible!

[rsdsharp]

4. I'm so sorry for the family. I don't know if they made the right move or not.

I have a trans granddaughter. Maybe it’s better not to wait, but my daughter’s family don’t have all of their complicating factors.

But my question is who authorized this “estate sale?” Was it the family?

[Oopsie Daisy]

8. Good question. It was probably unauthorized. It sounds like looting to me.

[babydollhead]

49. It was overseen by a family friend

As of tomorrow, the house is on the market, as is

[rsdsharp]

52. OK. Still a tragedy, but at least it wasn't theft.

I hope they can get a good price for the house.

[AKwannabe]

73. My best trans friend

Is beside herself!
We DON’T KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN…scary as fuck!!!!

[FM123]

6. Just breaks my heart to hear this.

The new normal under him will have devastating consequences for so many, especially those who are already marginalized and struggling.

[crazylikafox]

7. Sounds more like looting to me

[yardwork]

9. If this is true, I think they made a big mistake.

They left driver's licenses behind? Why?

There is no indication that Trump is going to target trans people. Yes, many states (including mine) are limiting health care for trans people, but that's a state issue.

I can't imagine just leaving all my things behind. I have to wonder about this story.

[Nigrum Cattus]

16. No indication the repubs target trans ?

Where have you been ? The house has already passed anti-trans bills.
Next, they will use their "beliefs" to allow hate speech including threats.
Read Fbooks statement allowing hate speech against gay/trans people.
https://hmd.org.uk/resource/first-they-came-by-pastor-martin-niemoller/

[yardwork]

25. Uh huh. I'm gay and I know all that.

I'm not panicking and leaving for Mexico, abandoning all my stuff.

[tritsofme]

17. Yep, sounds very far-fetched to me.

[johnnyfins]

77. Just a little

Discussion seed?

[Arazi]

18. Trump is absolutely going after trans people

And immediately too.

SCOTUS is taking up the Mahmoud v Taylor case this term which asks to ban LGBTQ materials from the classroom.

The question presented is:
Do public schools burden parents' religious exercise when they compel elementary school children to participate in instruction on gender and sexuality against their parents' religious convictions and without notice or opportunity to opt out?

This will almost certainly apply to banning LGBTQ teachers if even a book can’t exist at school.

Furthermore I presume once SCOTUS rules on the Taylor case, Traitor’s administration intends to follow the Project 2025 plan to label any and all reference of LGBTQ existence as 'sexualization', deeming all LGBTQ+ people as a threat to children.

Not an exaggeration, it’s in Project 2025 and follows Zuckerberg’s plan to allow trans folks to be freely condemned as mentally ill and defective on his vast platforms.

[yardwork]

27. Yeah, I know. But fleeing to Mexico and abandoning everything?

I'm gay. I have queer children. I have good friends who are trans. None of us are panicking. We're alert and we're watching, but not panicking.

[Arazi]

36. Stay safe friend

And I sincerely hope I’m wrong

[yardwork]

43. Thank you, and I sincerely hope I'm right!

I realize that we are in uncharted territory.

[vanlassie]

70. Not everyone is as stable as you and yours.

They probably panicked and couldn’t see support for anything else.

[Melon]

71. People create their own fear narrative

Trump is Trump, but he’s not going after gays. He may remove trans from the military, but that’s not everyday life. I’ve spent extensive time working in Mexico. I haven’t heard the “N” word in the US used at somebody in a derogatory way but I have in Mexico and “Puto” for gays constantly.

[whopis01]

84. If you don't mind, what state do you live in?

I am asking because I live in Florida and have had a couple different trans friends who have left the state because they were scared of the growing anti-trans environment here.

They didn’t abandon everything and leave in the middle of the night like the description in the OP. They found jobs elsewhere in states that a significantly more trans-friendly and moved there. So I’m not saying it is the same thing as what the OP describes. But they absolutely chose to leave because of fear of the growing hate directed towards them.

[yardwork]

85. I live in North Carolina.

I'm fortunate to live in a deep blue bubble, in a community with lots of queer people. The state legislature is controlled by Republicans, but the newly elected governor is a progressive Democrat - continuing a tradition of mostly Democratic governors here.

I'm not at all complacent about what's happening in our country, but I can't imagine leaving like the parents in this story did. I think there must be more to this story.

I can certainly understand intentionally leaving the U.S. Over the course of my life I've known a number of gay people who left this country because of bigotry.

I've read about the exodus of people from Florida. I'm so sorry that's happening. It could spread.

[whopis01]

136. I agree that there must be more to the story

You did not come across as being complacent - I was just curious because of the experiences here with my friends.

It is terrible. One of them is one of the most creative, giving, community-building people I have known. And now she has is no longer here. I don't blame her at all, but it ends up being a cascading problem. The more people like her that go elsewhere, the worse it is going to get. Which I suppose is exactly what the people behind the new laws and new mindsets are hoping for.

[magasnightmare]

60. SCOTUS is taking up the Mahmoud v Taylor case this term which asks to ban LGBTQ materials from the classroom.

The case is about allowing parents to opt out of when these books are used. And the lead plaintiffs are Muslim. Let’s not be like MAGA and spread misinformation and attack Muslims for their beliefs.

[Arazi]

69. Yeah that's just sanctioning religious bigotry

Public schools are inclusive places. We either welcome all students and teach/practice/enforce LGBTQ equality and respect to all, or religious students can go to religious schools where inclusivity and LGBTQ equality isn’t taught.

The question seems to be whether you can teach non-religious ideas that contradict the religious ideas of the parents. By this logic, what else would you be forced to not teach? Evolution? The spherical Earth? Germ theory? For centuries segregation was couched as biblical. Are we going to allow religious racists to “opt out” of learning that POC are equals?

[yardwork]

86. I will "attack" anyone for bigoted beliefs.

No religion gets a pass for bigotry.

[mountain grammy]

103. Thomas and Alito

have expressed their views that same sex marriage violates their religious liberty..

Obergefell, Thomas wrote, threatens “the religious liberty of the many Americans who believe that marriage is a sacred institution between one man and one woman.”

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/05/politics/thomas-alito-obergefell-same-sex-marriage-analysis/index.html

now lets see who they can drag down with them..

[Initech]

142. This country is being setup for a genocide.

It's truly fucking frightening. Anyone who isn't scared isn't paying attention.

[ForgedCrank]

28. That was

my thought.

General statement:

I hope it's not even true, but if it is, some things need to be said. All of the hyperbole about nazis, fascists, dictators, camps, end of Democracy, etc. is a problem because some people actually believe it. And when they start making decisions based on it, people have now been damaged for real over things that are nothing more than scare mongering. It's so bad in fact, I'll get attacked for even calling it out. The campaign is over, we need to stop this and focus on real issues in front of us as they come.
The reality of it is that we lost the election. We need to get through 2 years of this where all we can really do is voice our opinions when a real issue comes up. When the mid-terms come up, congress will flip again like it almost always does, and we'll have a lot less to worry about.
Flame away

[Trueblue Texan]

68. What we are seeing and writing about has nothing to do with the campaign...

In fact, the threat of losing democracy began long before TFG came into office, he just carried so far that we could see that he obviously has no plan to respect the law or the Constitution. What do you think that means? To me, it's obvious.

[tccturtle]

45. 😳😮

What rock have you been under?

[yardwork]

46. Sorry I'm not running around with my hair on fire.

[OldBaldy1701E]

80. Yet. (n/t)

[yardwork]

87. Right. I'll wait.

[soldierant]

65. I had the same reaction - and then it dawned on me -

they left the drivers licenses because they are changing their namwsand other identifying data as part of the move.

And - at least in my state - drivers licenses don't shred well. I mislaid mine, couldn't find it, finally gave up and got a replacement, and a couple of months later it turned up. It broke my shredder.

I have no isea how they're going to dothat, but they must have a plan.

[Sucha NastyWoman]

75. I can imagine it

It’s just stuff and they don’t want it tying them here anymore

[AllyCat]

89. What??? This has been his sycophants marching cry

for years! Project 2025 is all about making trans people victims.

[yardwork]

92. Trump runs his mouth a lot.

At one time or another he's verbally attacked just about every group of people in the world except cis straight white Christian MAGA men.

Yes, he won the election partly by convincing voters that all Kamala cares about are trans rights while everybody else starves. The election is won now. He's laser focused on helping billionaires get richer.

Other than threatening to fire trans people from the military (which I doubt he'll do), Trump has not threatened to go after trans people. Yes, it's a lousy political environment for them and a whole bunch of the rest of us. But there's no need to flee Right.This.Minute and abandon all your property because your teen kids are trans and on the spectrum. Trump is not sending an army door to door.

It might come to that but it hasn't yet. Our best way to resist is to stay calm and plan strategically.

You want to leave the country? Plan carefully. Make sure you come out better, not worse off. Choose your destination carefully. Is Mexico really a more welcoming place for trans people? Why not sell your things first?

[AllyCat]

93. He doesn't need to go after trans people in the military.

That’s what Hegseth is for. He is already planning the deportations of minorities. Nothing to stop them from catching up trans people in the net. He doesn’t care. There will be no day in court.

[stopdiggin]

94. "planning the deportation of minorities" ?

When and where was this announced?

[Cirsium]

100. What?

Announced?? It has been promised over and over again.

[stopdiggin]

101. deporting minorities?

if the poster had said 'immigrants' - then, yes, we all got that memo. Minorities? Guess I missed that one ...
(and frankly don't believe that it happened. I'll yield if you find me the time and date - and the wording that proposes ..)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --

[Cirsium]

110. It has never been about immigrants

Don't buy into that line. Of course the whole thing targets minorities, and people are being terrorized and arrested regardless of their legal status. People are arrested or giving suspected undocumented people a ride to work, or a meal, or a place to sleep. There is talk of eliminating "birthright citizenship." People need to understand what that means, why it is being talked about.

They are it talking about deporting Melania Trump. They are not planning on taking away citizenship from the many babies born here to Russian nationals.

Yes, the Republicans say that it is just about "illegal immigrants" as if there is such a thing. I wouldn't take them at their word.

As far as looking for "the wording" goes about their intentions, that is a fool's errand. Exactly when the decision was made that led to the Holocaust is not known. We know about the Wannsee Conference, yes.

"At some still undetermined time in 1941, Adolf Hitler authorized this European-wide scheme for mass murder. Heydrich convened the Wannsee Conference:

• to inform and secure support from government ministries and other interested agencies relevant to the implementation of the “Final Solution”

• to disclose to the participants that Hitler himself had tasked Heydrich and the RSHA with coordinating the operation

"The men at the table did not deliberate whether such a plan should be undertaken, but instead discussed the implementation of a policy decision that had already been made at the highest level of the Nazi regime."

(from the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum)

[EX500rider]

108. link for that?

If by "minorities" you mean undocumented immigrants, yes, if you mean American citizens I will wait for a link showing where he said such a thing.

[Cirsium]

112. Birthright citizenship

Trump’s birthright citizenship proposal, explained by a law professor

President Donald Trump’s proposal to end birthright citizenship — a policy that guarantees that any child born on US soil has guaranteed American citizenship regardless of the status of their parents — would deny citizenship to children born to undocumented migrants. The move has a political and a legal logic; the first is familiar and pernicious, the second novel and flawed.

...

I hope it goes without saying that this result is highly objectionable, since it would lead to the deprivation of birthright citizenship as a consequence of one’s parents’ origins. Yet I think it follows logically and directly from Trump’s position. It is an implication that can be denied only by rejecting the irrevocably tainted project of taking away the birthright citizenship based on the alleged crimes of a parent.

Those who are troubled by the idea of repudiating the 14th Amendment should be alert to the risk that White House lawyers will not be bothered by the Constitution’s vesting of the power to decide citizenship rules in Congress, and will gin-up a theory about why a statute already authorizes the president to do this.

We should be cautious, take this threat to basic American values seriously, and be prepared to fight back when reacting to Trump’s birthright citizenship proposal.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/10/31/18047896/trump-supreme-court-birthright-citizenship

Trump promises to end birthright citizenship

[EX500rider]

113. I doubt that would be retroactive & he proposes lots of stupid stuff, most of which does not happen

Also does not really target "minorities" as such.

[Cirsium]

116. Of course it is retroactive

It could only be retroactive.

You can give Trump the benefit of the doubt all you want. I won't.

[EX500rider]

122. No it wouldn't have to only be retroactive

It could also be children who already got their citizenship that way would keep it and the children born from here out would not

[Cirsium]

124. "Get" citizenship?

That could only mean that they are denied citizenship retroactively, after are born.

When do you "get" your citizenship? I you were born in the US, the you were born a citizen.

[EX500rider]

127. Well anyway he would have to get past the 14th Amendment which seems unlikely

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

[Cirsium]

130. That doesn't stand in his way

Nothing in the Constitution or any other law stands in Trump's way. That should be pretty obvious by now. People talk as though the Constitution has some inherent magical powers. The power of the Constitution comes from a general social agreement that it should be respected. That agreement is on life support, at best.

The law has not and can not stop Trump. Even Garland's defenders implicitly agree with that: "he did all that he could!"

[EX500rider]

134. Yeah he's not a dictator

Both the courts and Congress aren't going to put up with any obvious breaking of the Constitution of my opinion

[Cirsium]

135. Good grief

OK then.

[EX500rider]

148. It's not like I don't have another 4 years of trump presidency to compare to

He's horrible but I don't think the courts or the Congress will put up with too much nonsense

[stopdiggin]

129. you are still completely skirting the 'deporting minorities' assertion.

and that is because it simply doesn't hold up. Never happened. And no one is talking about it.

[Cirsium]

132. I am not skirting anything

Point one: the anti-immigrant agenda led by Trump is not really about immigration, it is about targeting particular minority groups.

Agree or disagree?

Point two: the stated plan to ignore birthright citizenship is certainly for the purpose of treating people from particular ethnic groups who are not immigrants as though they were.

Agree or disagree?

Third point: citizens from particular ethnic groups who are not immigrants have been incarcerated and deported.

U.S. Citizens Mistakenly Snared, Deported by DHS and ICE

An increasing number of American citizens have been questioned, detained and even deported by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), as a result of databases that incorrectly identify them as undocumented immigrants.

According to the New York Times, “Detentions of citizens are part of the widening impact on Americans, as well as on immigrants, of President Obama’s enforcement strategies, which have led to more than 1.1 million deportations since the beginning of his term, the highest numbers in six decades.” In fiscal year (FY) 2012, 409,849 immigrants were deported – a record number.

With growing criticism of law enforcement sweeps of immigrant neighborhoods and job sites that result in complaints about racial profiling, as well as widespread condemnation of immigration detention facilities, the issue of U.S. citizens being caught up in immigration raids has become more pronounced. Across the country, according to the Times, “citizens have been confined in local jails after federal immigration agents, acting on flawed information from Department of Homeland Security databases, instructed the police to hold them for investigation and possible deportation.”

https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2013/mar/15/us-citizens-mistakenly-snared-deported-by-dhs-and-ice/

Yes, the U.S. Wrongfully Deports Its Own Citizens

The New Yorker article by William Finnegan, "The Deportation Machine," highlights many of the continuing systemic problems with ICE policies, including its use of the flawed Secure Communities program, the prevalence of racial profiling, and the lack of any right to appointed counsel for individuals in immigration court. This lack of counsel is particularly problematic for people such as Lyttle, who, because of their mental disabilities, may not understand the immigration proceeding enough to be able to represent themselves adequately.

https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/yes-us-wrongfully-deports-its-own-citizens

The US Keeps Mistakenly Deporting Its Own Citizens

The story is strikingly common: thousands of citizens have been unlawfully deported or detained by ICE in recent years, according to extensive research undertaken by Jacqueline Stevens, a political science professor at Northwestern University who directs the school’s Deportation Research Clinic.

“Recent data suggests that in 2010 well over 4,000 US citizens were detained or deported as aliens, raising the total since 2003 to more than 20,000, a figure that may strike some as so high as to lack credibility,” Stevens wrote in a 2011 report. “But the deportation laws and regulations in place since the late 1980s have been mandating detention and deportation for hundreds of thousands of incarcerated people each year without attorneys or, in many cases, administrative hearings. It would be truly shocking if this did not result in the deportation of US citizens.”

https://www.vice.com/en/article/the-us-keeps-mistakenly-deporting-its-own-citizens/

ICE held an American man in custody for 1,273 days. He’s not the only one who had to prove his citizenship

A former senior attorney for ICE’s regional office in Los Angeles said the 2009 directive to conduct legal reviews of all citizenship claims brought dozens of cases to her desk every week. The people were all in custody, and agents, she said, generally assumed they were lying.

“The automatic response was, ‘Yeah, you’re just doing that to get out of our custody,’ ” said Patty Corrales, who left the federal agency in 2012 and now works in private practice. Most citizenship claims were false, she said, but “there were real citizens out there.”

In the seven and a half years ending in February, ICE reviewed 8,043 citizenship claims of people in custody, according to figures provided by Department of Homeland Security. In 1,488 -- nearly a fifth of those cases -- ICE lawyers concluded the evidence “tended to show that the individual may, in fact, be a U.S. citizen,” a DHS spokeswoman said.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/story/2018-04-27/ice-held-an-american-man-in-custody-for-1273-days

[stopdiggin]

137. unless you're going to show me where they say, "We plan to deport minorities, starting with .. "

I don't have any more time for your deflection and roundaboutation.

"This - really means 'that' "... Simply doesn't cut it in my world.
And, with that - I will bid you a good day!

[Cirsium]

138. Correct

You will never find Trump saying "we plan to deport minorities, starting with .." That is true.

Don't blame me for his dishonesty. I am not the one engaging in deflection and roundaboutation. Trump is.

Yes. This - "I am going to deport criminals" - really means this - "I am going to terrorize and persecute brown and Black people any way that I can." Sorry that doesn't cut it in your world.

[stopdiggin]

139. and does the statement

"I plan to prosecute criminals" - also 'translate' into terrorize and persecute .. ?
Because - despite whatever contortions you might want to lay on it - that (prosecuting crims) is really kind of what most people think ought to be done

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[Cirsium]

144. You must be kidding

Yes, "I plan to prosecute criminals" absolutely means "terrorize and persecute." Are you referring to the Laken Riley Act?

[stopdiggin]

150. I refer to the simple action of prosecuting crime

Which (to most) is an ordinary and accepted function of government.

The fact that you put it in the same basket as 'terrorize and persecute' - says a good deal more about your perceptions than it does about actual action, function and outcome.
(mirroring the stretch made in some of your other allegations and argument?)

[Cirsium]

151. Did my best

Trump also said he will make America great again. Do you accept that at face value as well? Or do you interpret it as meaning something else?

Trump claims he is merely prosecuting crime when it comes to immigration. You believe him. I don't.

Yes, my "perceptions" are that Black and brown people are terrorized and persecuted, and that the anti-immigration hysteria is about that and not about the law. You deny and mock that.

[MichMan]

140. All of those links in Post # 132 are in reference to deportations that occurred when Obama was president n/t

[Cirsium]

145. Yes?

Your point? Do you expect Trump to pull back on this?

[LearnedHand]

121. It's not a fucking state issue

No one should be denied medical treatment based on their address. And if they pass a nationwide law banning gender affirming care for young people, they can't just leave a STATE. They'd have to leave the whole country.

[flvegan]

10. Sounds like trespassing and theft to me.

Not sure the terms of their ownership/tenancy of the dwelling nor what state laws may apply here regarding their rights, notice, etc.

[dalton99a]

11. Did someone die or go into a nursing home?

[Dreamer Tatum]

12. This cannot possibly have happened as told. nt

[AKwannabe]

74. Well

Whatever

[LeftInTX]

13. What's in Mexico?

Drive with US plates and worry about extortion from cops.
Can't drink the water. Can't eat salads. Can't eat fruit. Seriously, you cannot except in limited spots such as resorts or in Baja California.

We were planning a trip to Mexico City and it's very limited in what we could eat. So we looked at Guanajuato. Rent a vehicle from the airport, but cops can tell by the way you drive that you're not from there.

I don't wanna go to resorts and beaches so I think we'll just vacay in Colorado instead.

Unless they already have connections in Mexico, this story does not make sense to me.

[sdfernando]

21. Don't worry

Some of those things are already happening in the good ole U S of A….and soon you’ll have the joy of bad water here too!

[LeftInTX]

23. Mexico has fecal coliforms in their tap water. There is also giardia in a lot of places in their tap water.

When it gets this bad, we will leave. But Mexico is not safe, just to take off to simply if you are trans and on the spectrum. Don't care what you tell me. Trump isn't even president yet. Unless they're from Mexico, I can't see this as being realistic.

[enid602]

106. Travel Advisories

Many Mexican States have been issued travel advisories by the US State Dept.

[OrangeJoe]

26. Not true at all

I’m writing this right now from Mexico where we are spending our 5th winter. We’ve never had a problem with the police and everyday people are wonderful. We never stay in resorts but usually camp, sometimes at campgrounds but many times on deserted beaches or small fishing villages. This year we are in a house in a fishing village with a couple dozen fantastic seafood restaurants to choose from. We eat the salads, slide down raw oysters fresh from the sea and consume a whole lot of shrimp.

It actually pisses me off that people slag on Mexico though I guess I shouldn’t say anything so that more gringos stay away and leave this amazing, kind, artistic and delicious place to those of us who appreciate it.

[LeftInTX]

33. I hear Baja is fine both with the tap water and cops.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TravelHacks/comments/12o6az4/any_exception_to_dont_drink_the_water_in_mexico/


https://www.reddit.com/r/travel/comments/1ap9ag1/is_a_mexican_road_trip_safe/

[Mosby]

91. Some on my relatives go down there to fish

Fairly frequently, when they were there a couple weeks ago they watched a helicopter fire at a house in the neighborhood and blow it up, setting it on fire. The rest of the night was filled with gunfire. Good times.

[Cirsium]

99. Gunfire?

Nothing like the US, then.

[Mosby]

114. No, nothing like the US, kinda weird statement cirsium

Almost 42,000 Mexicans have died in the drug wars, the cartels kill local town leaders, cut off their heads and put them on sticks for the public to see. Can you share with me where this is happening in the US? How about all the judges who are murdered by the cartel and mayors, police, public servants, etc?

When the police arrested the son of a cartel leader the drug gang surged out in the streets killing people, kidnapping people, burning buildings and cars. The police released the kid. Where has this happened in the US, xirsium?

This shit happens everywhere in Mexico, a judge was assassinated in Acapulco in December. A YouTube "star" was kidnapped, tortured and executed a few days ago. On Jan. 16th the police found cut up body parts from 5 people who were candidates in the local election.

But hey, America sucks, right?

[Cirsium]

115. America sucks???

Er, um, no. Not sure where you got that.

I am commenting on the absurdity of anyone in the US complaining about gun violence elsewhere. You know, pot, kettle...

But hey, Mexico sucks, right?

[Mosby]

120. Mexico's murder rate is roughly four times as high as the US.

Half of our gun deaths are suicides.

In 2023, Mexico had more than 30,000 murders, the sixth year in a row that the country has seen this number. Much of the violence in Mexico is attributed to drug cartels. The murder rate in 2023 was 23.3 per 100,000.¹

In 2021, the United States had a homicide rate of 6.81 per 100,000 people.²

¹ https://www.semafor.com/article/01/17/2024/mexico-records-most-violent-period-in-modern-history

² https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/usa/united-states/murder-homicide-rate

[Cirsium]

123. I know

Most murders in the world. The US and Mexico combined account for about half of the homicides in the entire world.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/murder-rate-by-country

Homicide rates are high across Latin America. Authoritarian police state regimes, civil wars, and economic inequality are contributing factors, and the US has played a large role in those factors, so yeah I guess America* does suck.

* The billionaires operating the sweat chops, mines and quasi-slave plantations, the banks and investors supporting and corrupting those police states, and the military that defends their interests against the people of Latin America.

A good article here:

Latin America ¡SinFiltro!

In Latin America and the Caribbean, the homicide rate is three times higher than the global average (18 versus 5.6 per 100,000 inhabitants) and 50 percent of homicides are associated with organised crime, compared to 24% in the rest of the world. LAC is the only region where homicide is the main cause of death (accounting for 52 percent) —in the rest of the world, diseases and accidents top the list. In Latin America, people kill each other.
The World Bank had shown a strong link between demographics, economic and social development and criminality: poverty fuels criminality. Studies show that a 1 percentage point increase in the growth rate of GDP is related to roughly 0.24 fewer homicides per 100,000 (all else equal, including income per capita). But for gains to be sustainable, the strength and credibility of judicial systems and law enforcement institutions must improve in tandem with economic development.

Other researchers have shown that economic and labour market shocks provide incentives to partake in criminality. Job opportunities play a key role as a driver of the opportunity cost of engaging in crime, with researchers showing that weaker manufacturing job prospects in caused by competition with China has spurred violence in Mexico.

We also know inequalities fuel crime in the region, and that urbanisation plays a part too. Social and spatial divides in cities or regions can deepen inequality and create fertile ground for organised crime groups, street gangs, and private security entities substituting the role of the state. Violence is highest in poor urban neighbourhoods and on the outskirts of cities where 160 million people (about 25 percent of the urban population) lives in low-income informal settlements lacking title and access to basic services. About 50 percent of crime across all crime types occur in just 2.5 percent of the street space in Latin America and the Caribbean. The IDB argues these dynamics favour the concentration of “pockets of fragility”—cities or territories where populations are subject to extremely weak state capacity and/or different criminal forms of governance and service provision.

[Melon]

157. Tijuana has 5x the murder rate as Chicago

I travel to MX extensively for work. It’s truly not what we would consider safe versus our worst cities. Nobody is skinned alive in the US. Body parts aren’t thrown into town squares. The police have to wear masks so their families aren’t murdered.

It’s a false narrative to say it’s all cool. Even accounting for this being DU and anti gun, you have no personal protection in Mexico and you will see cartel members carrying automatic weapons if you are in their areas. You will see Mexican police stand in truck beds with belt fed machine guns. It’s not a joke.

If you get robbed on the street, your just as likely to get robbed again if you go to the police.

[Cirsium]

158. Chicago?

Why are you using Chicago for comparison?

Murders per 100,000 people:

New Orleans 58.4
St. Louis 57.2
Mexico 26.11
Chicago 23.2
Mississippi 20.7
Louisiana 19.8

DU is anti-gun? And that is relevant how exactly?

You are promoting some pretty reactionary themes.

[Melon]

159. Here you go

Chicago is known as a high murder number city. It’s been on the news yearly regarding the murder rate.

2023
Chicago 617 murders. Population 2.6MM
Tijuana 1844 Population 2.26MM

3x with a smaller population to mention the “missing”
In Mexico you can’t defend yourself and the corrupt police won’t either.


PS. Tijuana is the 10th most dangerous in Mexico with 80 murders per 100,000. 10th! Mexico is dangerous. Not comparable at all to the US.

[Cirsium]

160. Per capita

The only way to intelligently make comparisons is on a per capita basis.

[Arazi]

125. I call the cartels Mexican ISIS

They really are that vicious, demented and fanatical

[SaintLouisBlues]

118. Link?

[Arazi]

34. There's actually large expat communities in Mexico

Like San Miguel De Allende, Puerto Vallarta, Baja etc that are reasonably safe and you can reasonably live a US lifestyle.

Many Norte Americanos do successfully assimilate all over Mexico despite the bleak picture you paint.

That said, the current wave of transphobia seems to be sweeping everywhere and tbh, I’m not sure trans people are safe/can access trans healthcare outside of expat communities or Mexico City in Mexico. If I were trans I’d be hunting a safer harbor in other 1st world countries like Canada, Ireland, Belgium etc

[LeftInTX]

37. But just to take off and leave everything without planning. My friends daughter worked and lived in MX City

She came back. Quality of health care was the issue.

[yardwork]

48. We gay folk have learned strategy.

For decades, gay people in the U.S. have had to be strategic, thoughtful, and intentional in the way we live. Couples carried documents wherever they traveled. We thought about what would happen if one of us was hospitalized. We think about the communities and neighborhoods where we choose to live. We assess risks every day.

Panicking is not us. Leaving essential documents behind sounds...odd.

[LeftInTX]

50. The whole "taking off" is just strange to me.

My daughter's friend did "take off" to Mexico. But she spent a month planning it. It was 2017 and was not a US citizen and was here illegally. She was a Mexican citizen, but her parents had forged a US birth certificate. She had good reason to go there. But it took awhile make arrangements etc. She ended up moving in with an aunt. She also gave up a lot to do it. Like her career as a physical therapist here. It's long story....

[IrishBubbaLiberal]

40. Lots of places in Mexico are far safer than US

Food safety is indeed problematic in Mexico.
Poor Water purity.. That’s why it’s a problem.

BUT I have multiple relatives, that are US citizens, living in Mexico.
Retired, and a few youngsters enjoying Mexican food and culture who are EXTREMELY
happy to be in Mexico.

My relative in their 70s live in a nice gated community north of Mexico City,
Good restaurants, almost no crime to speak of..maybe there is property crimes,
BUT they have never been a victim of any type of crime.

But then again—- these relatives speak the language, they don’t act like dumb ugly Republicans,
or act like Ugly Americans — they work in Mexico (those not retired), they shop at COSTCO and WalMart sometimes, but mainly go to local grocery store, or small green grocery stores that sell just veggies fruit etc,

They DO NOT drive any vehicles with US plates!

And they pick carefully where they may eat at cafes/restaurants
(I find that the same in the US, many cafes/places in US you should NOT
eat there UNLESS you want to chance stomach problems, again here in US)

My own experience going to Cancun for many times over the past 30+ years.
You have to stick to quality restaurants, quality hotels, NO STREET FOOD,
AND no ice in drinks. ANY drinks!

Stick to bottle sparkling water.
Even bottled water can be a problem (unscrupulous people refill water
bottles and then bottle caps are superglue back to act as ‘new’ cap.
(That’s a worldwide issue for travelers, my father ran into that problem in Far East
countries, think it was in Hong Kong)

Border areas are a BIG Problem.
I NEVER drive into Mexico anymore.
I used to drive into Mexico back in the 1980s,
With no problems back then.

But I will indeed rent a car in Yucatán.
Never had a problem.

Years ago a relative was driving his rental in Cancun,
In the tourist zone….he got pulled over by Mexican cop on motorcycle,
For some bogus reason, BUT my relative had enough sense to know it was a
‘shake-down’ AND a graciously asked the patrolman IF he could pay the FINE to
the cop instead of going in to pay elsewhere to Mexican authorities,
The cop obliged, accepted the cash, and my relatives drove away.
Think it was maybe $20US cash

[LeftInTX]

41. Exactly! But it helps to "plan".

Don't drive into Nuevo Laredo with US plates. My son drove with his friend all the way to Guanajuato. (I don't know if the friend had Mexican plates, but he was from Mexico) I was very nervous about them getting pulled over. My son snuck off....

[EX500rider]

109. "Lots of places in Mexico are far safer than US" Certainly not in general

Mexico has over 4 times the homicide rate of the US @
24.8 per 100,000

US: 5.7 per 100,000

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

[IrishBubbaLiberal]

152. Mass shootings in US, Road rage shootings in US.

Yes, the US is full of violent crime, AND it’s up to you or anyone else to
use their ‘street smarts’ to avoid those places JUST a as in EVERY country.

I would NEVER EVER walk at night in lots of areas in cities in the USA.
And a woman is NOT safe to walk alone at night in most medium and larger US cities.

I’ve been fortunate enough to travel some internationally, although limited to North America,
and Europe….maybe …..it’s TEN countries….Everyone I used some common sense to where and what time of day to walk about.

And the US is by far the country I am always extremely cautious about where I go or don’t go.

The US corporate media pushes their propaganda nonsense nonstop about ‘violence’ in Mexico,

While in reality most people in Mexico view the US as a hostile place for bigotry and dangerous police that are racist and can be violent against people of color.

Sure…Mexico has violence. And there are areas to avoid b/c of cartels.
But the distorted reporting by US media is astoundingly biased.

Added…..

Certain areas of Mexico may be safer than certain areas of the US.
However, as a whole the US has significantly lower violent crime rates and less gang activity.

[IrishBubbaLiberal]

153. New Orleans murder rate is extremely bad

The Murder rate in New Orleans is horrendous.

[EX500rider]

154. Oh yes and that's the overall homicide rate for Mexico

Try Cuidad de Juarez or Tijuana or one of the other cartel cities

New Orleans is ranked 8th the seven Cities above it are all in Mexico

List of cities by homicide rate - Wikipedia https://search.app/RfvNinRPGXiN26W76

[IrishBubbaLiberal]

155. Mass shootings in US is horrifying

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_States

Horribly frequent
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States

[EX500rider]

156. So is having your head cut off and being hung from a bridge like in Mexico

And news stories or not mass shootings are very rare compared to the number of homicides

[av8rdave]

83. There are a number of expat communities in Mexico...

The main attractions are climate and comparatively low cost of living. However, all the things you mentioned are huge negatives IMO. I used to travel there a lot for work in the 90s/2000s (Mexico City, Guadalajara, the resort cities). My personal policy was to consume only bottled water and cooked meats & vegetables.

My biggest concern living there would be the corruption and the cartels, who have oozed into previously safe areas. Over time, I fear that the expat communities will be seen as bastions of wealth and become attractive targets.

Europe and Scandinavia are more difficult and expensive to get into permanently, but the adage “you get what you pay for” applies.

For those who choose to leave, I get it. The parallels with 1930s Germany are frightening. That may seem hyperbolic and far fetched to some, but that’s how many Germans felt in the early 30s.

[LeftInTX]

98. Yes and you have to "plan" to live in those communities.

It doesn't "happen" by running off and leaving all your possessions, personal IDs at home. That would be the last thing to do.

This sounds more like an abduction case or maybe they already were not here legally and their ID's were fake or something.


However, the average US citizen who just suddenly decides to "hide out" in Mexico just to get away from the US doesn't sit with me. OP said this was in Pennsylvania. If flying you need a passport. If driving, they now check coming into MX. How would they access their bank accounts? Yes, you could get some cash here and bring and survive for awhile. All that stuff needs to be ironed out etc.

Or maybe the just went to another town and are coming back to get their stuff and then planning to go to Mexico. The story is just weird.

Trump isn't president, so it's not his gestapo ICE agents or his gestapo anything. Biden is president.

I think there may have been a crime committed against this family or something....

[av8rdave]

149. Agreed

I was just tossing out what general Mexico info I know, and pointing out that IMO Mexico isn’t the best place to emigrate, even if you’re relatively well off. And yes, normally going there to live takes a lot of planning.

The OP’s story sounds dire.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

14. This is scary

[Alliepoo]

15. Omg.

That is horrifying. Those poor people.

[sdfernando]

19. I am working on leaving as well.

1st order of business is to sell the house so I can avoid double capital gains taxes….but if shit goes south fast I will leave and bite the tax bullet if I have to.

I am so disgusted with this country selecting oranganus! What is coming is on the hands of everyone that voted for IT and everyone eligible to vote but didn’t!

[BonnieJW]

32. Where are you going?

I'm trying to find someplace safe, economical, and speaks English.

[sdfernando]

55. I've set my sights on Spain for now.

Large expat communities in the bigger cities. Much friendlier in the whole than France. Being partially bilingual gives me a leg up.

[róisín_dubh]

57. Spain is well tired of foreigners

And is about to pass a 100% tax on properties bought by non-EU residents. So YMMV

[sdfernando]

66. It's notoriously difficult for Sanchez

to get anything passed by their congress. He, as well as most other presidents, have not had much success….and who says I have to buy? Rents are cheap compared to San Diego. Even if I did nothing with my house $$$ and retirement I would still have 25 years worth to live on. Doubtful I’d even live that long.

[Joinfortmill]

59. I like 'IT'. So would Stephen King

[Escurumbele]

20. We need to get over this doom and gloom attitude, we need to be stronger and not accept in any way

what the crooks who take power on Monday will TRY to do, we have to think, we have to want to defeat them, but I am very tired of the defeatist attitude that has taken on some many people.

Cheer up, they will not do what so many people, and they, think they can do. Lets continue trying to awake people up, it will be easier now when they start suffering the criminal actions from the republicans, but this attitude that has taken over people, and surprisingly in high numbers here in DU is not healthy, is not constructive, and it will just cripple people from doing something to combat the crooks.

So please, lift your spirits, be positive, work hard at waking people up so that next election goes 100% our way.


I would just like to add that these people who, supposedly, left without passports, driver's licenses, etc. sounds more fishy than true. Ask yourselves, can they enter Mexico without identifications papers? I don't think so. I don't know the story, but it seems to me the police should investigate.

[LeftInTX]

24. Mexico requires passports now. I guess you could bribe your way in....

[LeftInTX]

39. My husband is Mexican. So just stop it.

I've lived in San Antonio since 1982. I've been married to him since 1985. Do I need to show you pictures?

[Bluethroughu]

22. This is scary....

I'm disgusted with the Republican party and the greedy f-$%ing rich!
They broke this country! Yes, the Waltons flying their American flags while using slave wages subsidized by taxpayers to take more than they give.
Elunatic and Bezos building their companies the same way.
Pigs slopping at the trough of their own pigstyes.

[CanonRay]

31. I have a Chinese friend

Her and her aunt have left to return to China. The aunt was at a big name brokerage for 20 years.

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

35. OMG

[Srkdqltr]

44. What is really scary is people a looting a house, not knowing if the story is true.

If ID papers and car keys are there i would be suspicious of a second hand story.

[Exp]

51. Sorry, but in what U.S. state were they living?

Something seems fishy.

[babydollhead]

67. Pennsylvania

[catrose]

78. And going to Mexico instead of Canada?

[homegirl]

53. Many years ago

a friend showed me a photo of her, a precious three year old, with her parents taken on the ship when they arrived in New York harbor. I said, Jackie, you all look so wonderful, beautifully dressed, pretty mother, handsome father and little Jackie in a white winter outfit, white kid boots and a tiny fur muff. I will never forget her response. "Those were the only clothes we had."
Left home, furniture, business every thing to escape Nazi Germany! Left on a Sunday afternoon like they were going on a family outing to the Zoo!

[sarisataka]

54. Cool story nt

[Joinfortmill]

56. My God. No words.

[SunImp]

58. Only monsters will cheer on the deportations

[GP6971]

62. Well Hello!! Kind of late for you isn't it?

Ready for pizza?

[LakeArenal]

63. Both home buyers and renters are calling real estate agents 600 times more than other year here in Costa Rica. 🇨🇷

Mostly Democrats from what we can tell.

[FrankTC]

64. Like Jews Who Fled Germany Before the Holocaust

I wonder what it was like to be Jewish in Germany before the full crush of Nazism — before Kristallnacht, for example. You would definitely feel the nasty vibe but you couldn’t know for sure how bad it would get. Maybe some of your friends were talking about leaving, but many others assured you that, because you were a good German, with family roots going back generations, you’d be fine, with nothing to worry about. Still, those who left early — seemingly overreacting, at least according to their more optimistic or complacent friends — those are the ones who survived. Maybe fleeing to Mexico suddenly and without accoutrements and stuff will turn out to have been the wiser choice.

[AKwannabe]

72. This is NOT cool

Not at all

Fuck the oppressors!!!!

[I_UndergroundPanther]

76. SSI Isn't enough to pay to flee

I’m screwed. Being trans I feel the target on my back pressing down even harder. But I will tell these fuckers to fuck themselves until the day I die.

[marble falls]

79. My friend's parents were in the camps. They got here in the early fifties. I always wondered how they had ...

... managed to bring photographs, little objects and his father's briefcase and tailor's tools through being rounded up and being put in a camp.

When they were released, they (Irv's mom, dad, an aunt an uncle and two distant cousins - all of his family left) walked from the sub camp of Auschwitz they were held at to their home where they dug up the things of value they had buried in their home, and then walked to a DP camp in West Germany.

This sort of thing scars generations. When Irv was four, his father died. Soon after, mother found Irv putting coins and bills between the floorboards of the dining room of their home.

[Fla_Democrat]

81. Plot twist....

For a thought exercise only

The family returns from visiting relatives in New Mexico. They find their home looted, and all of their possessions either missing, or trashed. The story gets back to them that their neighbor ( call him "Herb" ) spread the story above.

The police are called, and they question Herb about it. The neighbor, still holding a grudge from some slight (real or imagined ) from a decade ago, says... "Hey, I did what they asked. They told me they were fleeing. I didn't make a penny on this, so I didn't commit fraud." The police say it's a civil matter, and suggest the family take Herb to court. They get in their cruiser and leave.


Now, the family, that "have 2 trans sons, on the spectrum, teenagers" have had their peace destroyed, not by 47, but by some jerk-wad still pissed off over a weed-eater from 2013. Sure makes that 'free to a good home' toaster oven feel kinda cringy.

[Littlered]

82. Um yeah...

For those that can’t keep themselves from conflating immigration policy (agreed with or not) to nazis and Jews. I suggest you bone up on a little history. If you aren’t familiar with the Ms. St.Louis, you should be. Then you should ask yourself who was president. Then you should ponder why people might be upset with our present state of affairs, again, agreed with or not. Then you would do well to ask yourself, why is our parties social agenda so unpopular?

Then you might ask yourself. How was it that an immigrant ( a female none the less) that I met at a job, proudly voted for Trump? I’ll help you out. According to her, it was because of illegals. And hers wasn't the only opinion I heard in that vein of discussion. But yeah, Nazis and Jews, sigh…..

[NoMoreRepugs]

90. Is this what DU has evolved into? Bit fantastical story wouldn't you say?

[stopdiggin]

96. if this actually happened (the way described)

then I have to seriously question state of mind (mental health) and what was really in play. I don't care how unnerved someone might be about potential political machinations. People still make plans. And what they don't do - is just walk out of their homes, leaving the door ajar and ID and car keys on the kitchen table. There is something really wrong with this picture.

And - if I ran across this 'beyond odd' type of situation - I would have serious reservations about the safety of this family and its members. (well before they made the Mexican border)

[LeftInTX]

102. Or even if there is anything about Mexico involved....

Was law enforcement even contacted?? And an estate sale held the next day? And their DL's was left in the shower?? Why didn't LE at least take their IDs?

[stopdiggin]

104. suspicious. and altogther - dubious ?

[Patton French]

147. Yeah, doesn't really add up.

NT

[Martin68]

95. Rather odd that someone would leave their driver's license when leaving the country. Essential ID document.

They weren't driven out by force like during a Jewish progrom. I suspect there is something else going on here, and it doesn't bode well for the family's future.

[PennRalphie]

97. This is so sad.

Especially after you said it happened in Pennsylvania. My state! I hope this wasn’t in Western PA. They could have called the Democratic Party of their city or county for help. Or called Governor Shapiro’s office. Summer Lee is a very progressive congresswoman in Pittsburgh. She would have helped them, and it wouldn’t matter where they were from.

The fact they fled and left their driver’s licenses behind!!!! Medication! Hopefully they took their passports to help with travel. It seems they were running for their lives. So so sad. This is what our party needs to fight. A situation like this should be showcased. When the family is safe of course. I also think whoever held the “free estate sale” should not have done that. If they change their mind halfway through the journey, they will return to nothing.

Such a tragic situation.

[EX500rider]

107. "Like how Jews had to leave their homes with nothing." Chose to, not "had to"

Do they really think Trump will be rounding up trans-American citizens?
What makes them think that was so eminent they had to "flee"?

He is all about "illegals"

[LeftInTX]

111. My family was expelled from Turkey. But, that was in 1915.

The entire Armenian population was expelled. There were no driver's licenses or ID's involved. My great grandmother managed to take a cup. The Turks destroyed and pillaged our family's personal possessions. They destroyed the hand scribed bible. They stole the cattle. Armenians were allowed to take one cow each or something, but that was all. But this was 110 years ago and they did it to an entire population of people who did not have driver's licenses or personal ID's. There was no such thing! No family photos because there were no cameras!

Eventually the western press would photograph the Armenians.

However, I really don't get that type of vibe from the scenario in the OP......

Jews were living in Europe prior to WWII. Europe was much more sophisticated than Pre WWI Turkey, so I assume Jews would have taken their ID's with them if they had them if they voluntarily left. Seriously, would they leave their ID's behind for the Nazis to find? I would think they would try to erase as much of their ID's as possible before leaving. (Of course, not always possible. However, most would grab their ID's and possibly a few photographs)

When Anne Frank was arrested, the neighbor scooped up her diary before the Nazis could come back and take the rest of the family's possessions. I assume the Frank family had some sort of identifying documents on them when they were arrested or were ordered to bring them when they were arrested. I'm sure the Germans confiscated their ID's and important documents when they were arrested. (Don't get me started on German WWI record keeping and the Turks..it's a rabbit hole. But the Germans were known for record keeping. I think it may have made prosecuting them easier after WWII)

The Nazis would come back to pillage the rest of the Frank's possessions, but at the time of the arrest, I'm sure a school girl's notebook would not be something that would interest them.

Biden is still president. We have cell phones these days. If there was mass deportation and pillaging of Americans living in neighborhoods someone would catch it on their phone.

The manuscript, written on loose sheets of paper, was found strewn on the floor of the hiding place by Miep Gies and Bep Voskuijl after the family's arrest,[22] but before their rooms were ransacked by a special department of the Amsterdam office of the Sicherheitsdienst (SD, Nazi intelligence agency) for which many Dutch collaborators worked.[23] The papers were given to Otto Frank after the war, when Anne's death was confirmed in July 1945 by sisters Marianne and Rebekka Brilleslijper, who were with Margot and Anne in Bergen-Belsen.[24]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Diary_of_a_Young_Girl

Sorry, this is just a weird rant.......

[ShazzieB]

128. Not weird at all!

I learned a lot from it myself.

Just want to add a clarification, though: Miep Gies and Bep Voskuijl were not nejghbors but employees of the company originally owned by Otto Frank, which continued to operate on the lower floors of the building while the Frank family and a few others were hiding in the attic and after they were taken away.

Miep Gies, who died in 2010, played a major role in helping the hidden Jews survive, by supplying them with food and other items they needed. She later related the whole story in her memoir, Anne Frank Remembered: The Story of the Woman Who Helped to Hide the Frank Family. It's a fascinating read, and I recommend it highly, especially to those who have read Anne Frank's diary and want to know more about what happened. Miep was an amazing and heroic woman (although she did not see herself that way) and one of my personal heroes.

[JoseBalow]

133. [Citation Needed]

[Initech]

141. Half of this country has completely lost their fucking minds.

[Jack Valentino]

143. My biggest fear is that I might eventually SAY something to one of these Nazi-wannabees

(via traceable communication methods)

that could land me in jail, under current laws---

for telling the truth about what I "feel" about them.

[Patton French]

146. Seems terribly shortsighted.

Likely something else going on.