Self-righteousness is UGLY.

[Avalux]

And those showing it today in reaction to Joe Paterno's passing have not stopped to consider how it hurts those of us who are mourning his death today.

Joe Paterno was a man, with faults, and not everything is black and white. He did a lot of wonderful things for his students, the school and the community. He impacted a great number of lives in a very positive way. I'm sorry; a lifetime of that can't be discounted by the Sandusky scandal, and what Joe did or did not do.

For those expressing hatred and disgust over this man's death - judging others without all the facts is foolish; being so cruel at the time of one's death is irreprenhensible.

Within myself this morning, I've got mixed emotions; I sat and cried when I heard the news, so very sad for the loss of someone who positively impacted my life and at the same time, sad and angry it had to end the way it has.

I will always respect what Joe Paterno meant to me, personally. Please respect those of us who feel this way.

[seabeyond]

1. are you being a bit self righteous judging people that have little sympathy

when it comes to the rape and protection of our children? what if some of these people have been raped as children and so dont have the same amount of grace to this man as say.... you may?

yet you lecture them on self righteous. how hurtful do you think that may be to some. your dismissal of their horror.

only pointing out the other side of the coin.

[Whisp]

4. I'd have to agree

I don't think people are really considering how many ruined lives Paterno was a part of making. So he's a big football dude 1%er probably, big fucking deal - it's just a stupid game that games people and makes a few a lot of money. And as you say, there are some here that have been abused like that as children so when I hear 'leave poor Joe alone' it kind of makes me cringe at the thoughtlessness of That.

[Avalux]

10. Has there been a trial? Do you know the extend of Paterno's involvement?

Until then, stop making it up as you go along.

[roguevalley]

11. I agree. I don't give a damn about whether people feel sad about this. Post things off

list but don't expect the rest of us to sit and watch people celebrate someone who had a legal responsibility to call the police and he didn't. He was legally obligated as an educator. He allowed a pig to hurt children. Nothing in his life will be able to undo that. He did it with a clear eye of what he was doing. He didn't give a tinkers damn about little tiny boys. What a fucker he is. If that hurts someone's feelings, too bad. I don't find anything about pedos and their enablers worthy of praise.

[Vanje]

29. Thankyou

I was one of these.

Joe Paterno can eat creamed corn in Hell.

[seabeyond]

33. i would think, at the very least

and i am sorry others could be so blindly insensitive and you experienced what you did.

[TwilightGardener]

2. I think it's important to recognize that he failed in his duty toward these children and

also toward Penn State, by not taking more action. That said, he did not himself molest these boys, and I don't think a lifetime of achievement and generosity are necessarily erased by his failures. His halo is tarnished, and that is deserved. But he was nowhere near the sick predatory waste of flesh that Sandusky is.

[roguevalley]

13. actually, he is. He could have ended it. Boys could have been spared. he didn't.

he put his rep ahead of boys. If he had gone to the police they would have acted because it was him asking them to. He didn't. Jerry Sandusky is a sick man and couldn't stop. Paterno wasn't and he did nothing. That makes him way the hell more worse than Sandusky.

[rocktivity]

14. Even worse, Paterno knew that what his assistant saw

Last edited Sun Jan 22, 2012, 04:49 PM - Edit history (2)

was not Sandusky's first offense.


rocktivity

[TwilightGardener]

18. Uh, no, not in my book. Not doing enough to stop a bad deed is not the same

as committing the actual crime. Nor is it that way in the eyes of the law. I don't know what Paterno's motivations were for his actions, and it's likely you don't either. What's clear is that he failed, was negligent, had a moral/ethical lapse. That's bad enough, no need to make more of it than what it was.

[roguevalley]

24. I don't think you know about guilt by association

it is a crime you are responsible for if you are there when it happens or you didn't do anything about it if you could. Jails are filled with people who got sent to prison because of guilt by association. My brother can tell that tale to you himself. Paterno lawyered up when this happened and transferred his house to his wife for a buck. This man is culpable in the crimes because he knew and did nothing. Moral ethical lapse? No. Crime. And he could have ended this by going to the state troopers or the police and saying do this. he didn't. He spent a lot of time listening to how great he was and whipped up those idiot kids when he got fired. He is a criminal and its worse because every child that got raped after he knew is a crime on his hands.

[TwilightGardener]

25. Had he been charged with a crime? Had he witnessed the rapes firsthand and

said nothing? I also don't think the jails are filled with colleagues of abusers, who heard secondhand of child abuse, and reported it to superiors. What he did wasn't anywhere near good enough, but again, there's no need to paint him and Sandusky with the same brush.

[roguevalley]

26. again, teachers, coaches and others have a legal responsibility to ensure that reports like this are

made and I am not talking about the upper admin of the university. they have to report this directly to child services and the police. It is the law. Go on a ride to a store where the driver robs it with or without a gun and see if you don't go to jail too. Its called guilt by association and when it involves crime pertains EQUALLY to the one who committed it and to you. This is the same thing. He has equal guilt. The slagging janitors knew about this. Everyone KNEW about it. Why do you think they're in such a panic. The indictments are coming. They are. Sitting here quibbling around about degrees of culpability is just so much monkey motion. Educators and others related HAVE A LEGAL RESPONSIBILITY and if they fail AS PATERNO DID they are EQUALLY GUILTY. That is the law. Quasi officers of the court. I can tell you I was bludgeoned with this information for 27 years as a teacher. Fudge this all you want. the fucker is lucky he died. He's off the hook physically but his responsibility to those kids not just morally but legally is forever and he is WORSE in my opinion than a crazed crazy man who like to fuck kids. He knew this was happening and let it go with mininal and in my opinion as someone who had this duty myself CRIMINAL lack of response to that info. HE put himself, a stupid sport and his fake legend over the safety and well being of kids and this went on longer because he was a fucking coward and he is as dirty and responsible as Sandusky if not more. Sandusky couldn't stop. Paterno never started. Kids who didn't have to get fucked in the butt were because he was a bastard. Complete utter bastard and that alone makes him worse.

Tell me ... is the pope off the hook, JPII and this one concerning priest rape of kids? Will you make the same argument about the popes and the upper clergy? I don't think so. They are as guilty as the pedos that did this stuff because they knew and didn't intervene. They even protected the fuckers just like Paterno did for Sandusky. That makes them even worse. They allowed more victims to be created just like Paterno because the Church of Penn State Football and all its fake morality and good guyism was more important than the lives and sanity of tiny children.

Fuck Paterno.

[TwilightGardener]

27. We'll just have to hold different opinions. I think he is a very flawed man with a giant moral

failing in this matter, but I will never blame him more than the sick bastard who victimized the kids.

[roguevalley]

34. having taught kids who were hurt like this who could have been saved if

someone had stepped up, I hold a different opinion of the paternos of the world but I'm good with disagreeing. Take care, hon.

[rocktivity]

3. .

Last edited Fri Jun 27, 2014, 08:52 PM - Edit history (1)

rocktivity

[seabeyond]

6. yes. thinking of the children, i can look in the mirror.

i might ask those dismissing the horrors for the kids, if they could do the same.

i have to wonder at the blind hypocrisy of the couple of posts on this thread.

i dont have a toe in it. but i wonder about this hurt for an old man, that has lived a good life, being held up in this manner, with the dismissal of all that might be in pain, with what he allowed.

i dont dance on the grave. he is who he is. no more or less. but this picture of a mirror.... a bit much

[geckosfeet]

5. The older I get, the more I feel that 'having all the facts'

is a fools errand.

Is it possible to have all the facts? Whose facts? In whose or what context are these facts valid?

I am starting to feel that despite our best efforts to inform and educate ourselves (and all those poor ignorant sods who are not us ) we remain largely ignorant of the truth.

We make decisions based on the information we have at hand and our subjective analysis of 'the facts'.

[sabrina 1]

22. We make decisions based on the media's reporting which so often has turned out to be

false. The problem is, as someone who was a victim of media reports, later proven to be without merit said, 'how do I get my reputation back'. So imo, since we do not know the facts until there is a trial at least, it's better to withhold judgement no matter who the accused person is.

The Duke case should have taught people that. But it seems that being outraged trumps being fair minded, maybe it's a human fault and all I can say is, I hope no one who has been so quick to judge others, is ever themselves falsely accused of anything.

When in doubt, leave out[/]

[athenasatanjesus]

7. Using the term Self Righteousness to trivialize rival opinions is ugly.nt

[Patiod]

19. Maybe "sanctimonious" is more exact (nt)

[MadHound]

8. I feel for the children, the victims,

They have gotten lost in all of this mess, all these tears for Paterno and dear old Penn State. Twenty kids, and counting, sacrificed their innocence, their well being, their lives on the altar of Penn State/Paterno football.

Joe Paterno enabled this, turned a blind eye towards these crimes for over thirty years. That doesn't make him a great man, it makes him a criminal enabler. If that is who/what you want to mourn, that's fine. But it says a lot about you, about your values, about your attachment to a game that you place them above what happened to the victims.

Me, I'll mourn the victims, and damn Joe Paterno for enabling a pedophile to prey on young kids right under his nose, with his knowledge.

Fuck Joe Pa.

[Warren DeMontague]

31. I know. It's just a fucking game.

Jesus. A little perspective would be nice, wouldn't it?

[MineralMan]

9. I'm afraid you are not going to get what you want.

Last edited Sun Jan 22, 2012, 02:51 PM - Edit history (1)

What went on there was heinous. The death of Joe Paterno does nothing to correct that. He is dead. I'm sure his family is grieving and I have sympathy for their grief. However, being dead does not remove the actions of your life. No doubt, Paterno is revered for his long history of coaching, especially by fans. He is also reviled by many others for his inaction in a well-known sexual abuse case involving children. That will not go away, simply because it causes pain for Paterno's many fans. It simply will not. To expect it to is to expect too much.

[rustydog]

15. I was thinking how to write what you just wrote...thank you well done.

[Posteritatis]

12. Well, that's certainly an ironic post. (nt)

[Odin2005]

16. He was the head of a personality cult. I have no sympathy for him.

[ZombieHorde]

17. How did he impact your life?

I don't think I have ever heard how he impacted fellow DUers.

[Patiod]

20. Someone on the thread announcing Paterno's death replied "good"

Ugly indeed.

[cherokeeprogressive]

21. Yeah... this is a lost cause.

There is enough self-righteousness on DU to float a battleship. Untold numbers of posts where an uninformed opinion or belief leads to instantaneous judgment and knee-jerk reaction. I've been guilty of it myself; so I'm not pointing fingers, just pointing out facts.

I wonder how many who would dance on Joe Pa's grave were here at one time or another posting that Roman Polanski got a raw deal...

[kiva]

23. Trash thread is your friend.

I'm not being snarky, just saying that DU has never been a good place to mourn deaths - I've rarely seen a notice of someone passing that doesn't include a post or two about something bad/evil/unkind that the dead one has done. This isn't a blanket judgement about DU members, just saying we're a diverse bunch that often disagrees about people and protocol.

Maybe you should find a forum that is supportive of your point of view in this matter, and either give DU a rest or just trash any thread that mentions him.

[Jennicut]

28. After working in a group home with sexually abused children

I just can't have anything but dislike of the man. Sorry, but when lots of adults fall down on their responsibility you end up with children with deep psychological scars. It doesn't go away. Some of us react harshly because we have dealt with the scars upfront in our faces. When I worked as a counselor at a group home for boys, I had a 10 year old boy try to touch me inappropriately because his own mother did the same thing to him. His abuse could have been stopped as several people knew about it and did nothing. I had a child who wanted to commit suicide at 8 because he had been physically and sexually abused. I had boys try to abuse each other because it was what they "knew". When you experience that, you don't feel sorry for a wealthy older man that knew better.

[Warren DeMontague]

30. Winning a whole bunch of football games doesn't excuse enabling child abusers.

Sorry.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

32. Agree 1000%. I cried too, half for the loss of a great man and half

for the horrible circumstances of his final months.

When I went to school near Penn State, it was the shining star, and Joe
was the saint. I have admired him all my life, and I still do.

These feelings IN NO WAY diminish the outrage of what Sandusky did
and the horror his victims must have felt. Admiring and loving JoePa
and hating what happened are not mutually exclusive.

But life is not always as black and white as people make it out to be. I
for one, have learned a lesson from all of this - because I am sure I
have done the same in regard to other people. And seeing the
horrible comments on this board have reinforced how wrong it is.

People are not perfect, and it's very sad that there is an inability
to put yourself in the shoes of an old man, an ill man, who had not known
such horrible things ("I never heard of a rape of a man&quot , who did
all he knew to do, pass this on to the people who ran the school.

It is hard to imagine, being in a huge conglomerate like PSU, or many
people who would buck their bosses and go outside the chain.

Thanks for your post !!