General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSo how does it work if teachers are armed?
Do they keep a loaded gun in their bottom drawer. Gives new meaning to "locked and loaded." You have a special drawer built to order so your assault rifle fits in there?
Do you carry it your purse that you set under the desk? Then you forget about your purse and the kids get into it and start playing with the gun.
Do you put it in a locked closet?
And then what? You might have 3 seconds to defend yourself. You grab your purse and try to find the key to the closet. Run across the room and unlock the door and grab the gun.
That whole scenario makes no sense at all.
What does make sense is to have good strong metal doors with metal windows and someone there who watches the parking lot. And who hits an alarm the minute they see someone dressed all in black with a bullet proof vest get out of a car carrying weapons.
That's what they do in the banks around here. They have cameras that watch the parking lots. The minute someone gets out of a car wearing a ballcap, dark glasses and carrying a bag they hit the alarm and all the cameras everywhere are activated. It's not that hard.
MadHound
(34,179 posts)It is simply a wet dream for the gun nuts out there. They have no idea how their idea would work out in the real world.
jody
(26,624 posts)Total MYTH...other than on the West Bank, every teacher doesn't carry a gun. The one aspect of Israeli gun culture that is that they have strict gun control laws. Its highly doubtful that Adam Lanza or for that matter, Adam Lanzas mother, would have had access to an arsenal.
In Israel, gun owners are limited to one pistol and are subject to mental and physical tests. They are also required to be re-certified every three years. In order to own a pistol, an Israeli must for two years have been either a captain in the army or a former lieutenant colonel. Israelis with an equivalent rank in other security organizations may also own a pistol.
In Israel, there are approximately 7.3 guns per 100 people. In 2008, there was less than one gun homicide per 100,000 people. In the U.S., there are 88.8 guns per 100 people and in 2008, there were over 3 gun homicides for each 100,000 people.
Comparing Israel to the US is epic fail by the gun nuttery club.
jody
(26,624 posts)"On the other hand. I have never seen a school in Israel that was not fenced in. You must go through a locked gate that is guarded by an armed shomer, a security guard. ''
Response to jody (Reply #18)
RomneyLies This message was self-deleted by its author.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)Damn. Where'd that poster go? Hello?
renie408
(9,854 posts)And don't they have mandatory military service, also? And what kind of training do the teachers get and how many students do they have per teacher and....
Yeah...Another false equivalency. You gun guys are really big on those.
jody
(26,624 posts)Response to jody (Reply #19)
RomneyLies This message was self-deleted by its author.
renie408
(9,854 posts)Cause I am not sure jody is proposing we arm teachers. In the article it says that teachers are NOT armed and that guns are much more difficult to come by in Israel than the US with renewals required for licenses and mental health clearances required, etc. The article does not read like a pro-gun article, whether the site is rightwing or not. The only mention of anyone being armed is an armed guard at checkpoints going into the schools.
RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)Jody has been so gung ho pro gun I didn't bother once I saw what site he used.
renie408
(9,854 posts)Could you please explain the point YOU are trying to make by saying something other than 'see 18. ARE ISRAELI TEACHERS ARMED?'
Cause if you are saying we shouldn't arm teachers and we need way tougher gun control, OK, I agree and I get it now.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)renie408
(9,854 posts)I am really really NOT pro gun and neither is that article. It talks about teachers NOT being armed, really stringent regulations on gun ownership and required renewals for gun licenses.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)jody
(26,624 posts)mucifer
(23,550 posts)That I didn't know. I do know Israel has the finest, most cutting edge burn centers.
jody
(26,624 posts)Response to jody (Reply #22)
RomneyLies This message was self-deleted by its author.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Look at countries like the UK, Japan, Germany and Canada. They aren't contemplating arming teachers with firearms or having armed guards at school. Israel is a tiny country essentially in a war zone and you're comparing it with America?
What does this say about our country where we talk about arming teachers? The USA has become a laughingstock and it's because of gun nuts like you.
jody
(26,624 posts)tragedies like Sandy Hook.
Response to jody (Reply #25)
RomneyLies This message was self-deleted by its author.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)Thank you for saying it.
IL Lib
(190 posts)ellisonz
(27,711 posts)former-republican
(2,163 posts)With a one point sling
I kid
How about security at every school, inner cities have it.
leftyladyfrommo
(18,868 posts)Then they could simply rap the guy's knuckles.
My mother was a teacher. She could just guilt trip you to death.
Honestly, it's not funny but the whole concept is just too absurd for words.
former-republican
(2,163 posts)Lol
It would be way to much to expect teachers to armed in the classrooms.
I think hiring security would work. We have 100,000 public schools in the country and having a cop at every school isn't feasible
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Plus it would be community outreach
Cleita
(75,480 posts)especially when they gave you that look.
leftyladyfrommo
(18,868 posts)Nobody, but nobody, is going to take on one of those old fashioned nuns.
I used to volunteer in a big Catholic Hospital in Salt Lake City. Tree West was run by this old fashioned nun. I was just scared spitless of her. She was really good to her patients but man was she murder to work with.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)Even if possible, I would not send a child to a school with armed adults. I would really consider home schooling then. What will work is a better plan just in case something like that could happen, and drills like fire drills to make sure everyone knows what to do. There should be bullet proof hiding places, exit plans and I would explore maybe the use of high power water hoses to stop and blind an assailant temporarily, maybe from the sprinkler system so that all a teacher needs to do is pull a switch. Just a thought not a well reasoned idea right now since I just thought of it.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Since the context is teachers who are concealed-carry licensees, their handgun would be in a holster under a layer of clothing.
As far as how many teachers are CCW licensees, and how many of those would even want to carry at work? No idea.
leftyladyfrommo
(18,868 posts)And the grounds. If anything looks wierd just lock the doors - but you would have to have the right kind of doors - heavy metal and secure.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Windows would all have to be ballistic glass.
leftyladyfrommo
(18,868 posts)And that would cost a fortune to refit all the schools with special bullet proof winds.
But you could cover the windows with metal screens of some sort.
And then all the kids could go to schools that look exactly like reform schools. That would be so awful for the kids.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)n/t
Turbineguy
(37,342 posts)If a child brings you an apple, you shoot him. The apple might be poisoned, you never know.
leftyladyfrommo
(18,868 posts)In some parts of this town the teachers need to carry mace and wear bullet proof vests just to protect themselves fromthe students.
rrneck
(17,671 posts)TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)If we're going to turn schools into gun shows, why not strut your stuff?
leftyladyfrommo
(18,868 posts)Carnivals and garage sales are so yesterday.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)I live in the past. It's safer there.
leftyladyfrommo
(18,868 posts)They cost about $10 and have no coupons that you could ever use.
Gun sales might be a lot more lucrative.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)Ya can't say "no"
leftyladyfrommo
(18,868 posts)I never have ten dollars.
PuraVidaDreamin
(4,101 posts)Poor performance rating, on Prozac, yeah like a teacher couldn't snap.
elleng
(130,973 posts)Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)elleng
(130,973 posts)ThoughtCriminal
(14,047 posts)But it was not at school (at student's apartment) and not with a gun (kitchen knife).
Statistically , guns in the home have not been a good idea in homes with children. I'm not enthusiastic about having them at schools.
leftyladyfrommo
(18,868 posts)"those little assholes."
I dumped him. He was a jerk in a whole lot of ways.
spanone
(135,844 posts)Mr.Bill
(24,303 posts)They really, really would prefer it if the only one there with a gun in his hand is the bad guy. Can you imagine how much it complicates things for them if several people have guns and they have to sort out who the good guys and bad guys are? Ask any cop you know about this.
former9thward
(32,023 posts)Then they don't have to do any work at all.
Warpy
(111,274 posts)and start to make any kind of move toward a drawer, you're dead.
leftyladyfrommo
(18,868 posts)That would get old after about five minutes.
Chemisse
(30,813 posts)Always at the ready.
k2qb3
(374 posts)If school staff (not necessarily teachers, could be any school staff) had access to a biometric coded safe to store weapons in they would likely have a significant amount of time to access it if school security is otherwise half decent, locked doors, etc. Also you're assuming the armed staff is the first person targeted, otherwise the gunfire would be a clue.
leftyladyfrommo
(18,868 posts)Course if the kids got ahold of them it would be a mess. Fun, but a mess.
0rganism
(23,957 posts)just came up with this estimate in another thread, so I won't vouch for its accuracy beyond a ballpark figure. Let's say we have 60 teachers/janitors/administrators per district allocated to a "security qualification" program where they train for CCW licenses plus special procedures appropriate to defending a public school, and are expected to pack heat every day, let's say a reasonably good handgun with holster. Let's even be generous and assume 10 of the qualifiers already have the training and hardware, so it's 50 per district. There are over 16000 school districts in the USA. I'll estimate $500 for a good combo of personal instruction, pistol, shoulder holster, and ammo (go ahead and price out a cheaper package, i think the number's well within an order of magnitude, and probably within a factor of 2, of what a school district would end up paying per person).
16000 X 50 X $500 = $400000000. That's 400 million dollars transferred directly from public coffers to gun makers' bankrolls. Sure, it's not the US military, but it's nothing to sneeze at either. If they push hard enough in this direction, the purveyors of long-distance death tools stand to come out smelling like roses and making a buck along the way.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)logic and common sense exposes the NRA million dollar suit lies
There is no logical reason for a gun
Of course, one can think of many reasons the NRA wants people to always have guns
but none of them are good.
there is not one good reason for a gun
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)Therefore able to bargain collectively just like the police and firefighter's unions in Wisconsin?
gollygee
(22,336 posts)I wonder that too. Also, if they're teachers AND armed security guards, they should make more money.
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)People expect too much from teachers, and not enough of themselves. Parents need to be at LEAST as involved in their child's education as the teachers.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)They have to go to the office where someone trained in Tylenol does that.
ThoughtCriminal
(14,047 posts)MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)AlexSatan
(535 posts)Columbine lasted 50 minutes
Sandy hook lasted 5-10 minutes.