Pardon my ignorance, but I did not know about the "gun show loophole"....outrageous!

[reformist2]

"To date, the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) has prevented nearly 1.8 million criminals and other prohibited purchasers from buying guns. The law also has a deterrent effect—prohibited purchasers are less likely to try to buy guns when they know comprehensive background check requirements are in place.

Unfortunately, current federal law requires criminal background checks only for guns sold through licensed firearm dealers, which account for just 60% of all gun sales in the United States. A loophole in the law allows individuals not “engaged in the business” of selling firearms to sell guns without a license—and without processing any paperwork. That means that two out of every five guns sold in the United States change hands without a background check.

Though commonly referred to as the “Gun Show Loophole,” the “private sales” described above include guns sold at gun shows, through classified newspaper ads, the Internet, and between individuals virtually anywhere."

http://www.csgv.org/issues-and-campaigns/gun-show-loophole

[onehandle]

1. Gun shows and private gun sales should be banned.

Period.

[reformist2]

2. Yep. Most of them look like flea markets... totally irresponsible.

[Mec9000]

3. For the sake of clarity

All new gun sales go through a FFL
All private sales across state lines go through a FFL

[geckosfeet]

5. Approx 40% of all gun sales are done with no backgroud check.

These are private sales and gun show sales and sales.

Even MA, one of the most restrictive states when it comes to sales, does not require a background check with a private sale. They do require paperwork that identifies the seller, the buyer and the firearm be submitted to the state.

[Mec9000]

18. I am curious

how they get the number 40% as there is no records... Where did that number come from? it seems a bit high...

[geckosfeet]

23. Private sales in some states (MA for instance) require paperwork be filed with the state that

records the sale and transfer of ownership firearms. I am sure a few other states have similar requirements. They do not however, require a background check although it is possible that the state does one at some later time based on the paperwork.

Of course there are some states that have no such requirements and many sales likely go unrecorded. Then there are sales at gun shows. In any case, it is possible to make statistical estimates (using mathematical models) of sales in the states that do not require paper to be filed. Not sure if they do that, but it seems a simple thing to model.

That would mean, if anything, the 40% number is on the low side.

[Renew Deal]

4. Maybe a system should be put in place where gun dealers are the proxies for these sales

Arrange your deal with the buyer or seller. Then the buyer goes to a gun store and gets a background check. Once completed, the gun is transferred through a gun dealer. The dealer gets to make some money on it. It should be a healthy fee so it's worth their time and collects the sales tax.

It can be like the motor vehicle inspection system for guns. The government isn't doing car inspections.

I'm thinking out loud on this one and haven't thought it all the way through. The downside to do this is it will drive up the cost of used guns. The upside is everyone gets a background check and it's some extra money and customers for gun dealers.

I bet dealers would "steal" some business this way. Maybe the sale amount would have to go to escrow.

[LAGC]

6. Isn't that pretty much how it already works in California?

The problem is, with so many of these spree shooters anyway, they never bothered with the hassle of private-party sales, they simply stole them from lawful owners or used straw-purchasers, which would still be a problem even if we had universal background checks.

[Warren Stupidity]

7. Yes no regulation will be perfect.

And background checks are just one mechanism. Doing nothing hasn't worked out very well.

[Renew Deal]

16. You have to work on all of the issues.

The crime aspect is another issue to deal with.

[Revanchist]

13. Prescreening?

Maybe a way for individuals to have a background performed on them that would allow them the ability to purchase a gun in a limited amount of time in the future (two weeks perhaps)? Give them a pin so that the seller can verify that they passed the background check by going to a website or using an app and impose jail time to anyone performing a private sale to an individual who has not pass the check.

[Renew Deal]

15. Exactly

And that's simpler than being involved in the transfer. But give the dealers a chance to make some money.

[marions ghost]

8. You did not know this?

Well that is certainly one of the pluses of this horrible incident, if there can be any. for greater awareness.

[baldguy]

9. And the gun nutz will tell you that this is not a loophole.

[hack89]

11. A loophole implies an oversight or mistake

private sales exist because it is not a federal issue and most states have no desire to pass laws requiring background checks for private sales.

My state has such a law which has effectively closed the "loophole".

[baldguy]

14. Are you an ESL student?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/loophole:

"...an ambiguity or omission in the text through which the intent of a statute, contract, or obligation may be evaded"

The existence of a legal loophole doesn't imply there was an oversight or mistake - just the opposite. It's something that's deliberately added to legislation or changed within it with the intent of subverting it.

This loophole was added to federal law with the intent of allowing criminals to purchase weapons without a background check. It's based on the idiotic & absurd notion that guns purchased this way in Ohio, Pennsylvania or Virginia are going to stay there, and not be transported to New York, or Chicago or Washington DC to be used in crimes. It's the appalling result of the influence of RW corporate fascism on our govt, and people are dying because of it.

[hack89]

19. There was nothing added to federal legislation

the feds do not have the constitutional authority to regulate intrastate commerce - research the Commerce Clause if you are confused.

Private sales work like this:

1. If the buyer and seller are residence of the same state and the transaction takes place in that state, then it is a state issue and background checks are governed by state law.

2. If any of the above is different and a person or the weapon crosses state lines then it is a federal issue and the transaction must go through a licensed firearms dealer and federal background checks are required.

[hack89]

21. And it is against the law. Do you plan to make it double illegal? nt

[hack89]

22. How about linking to that federal legislation you mentioned? nt

[hack89]

10. It is a state issue

involving intrastate commerce. To stop it each state has to pass a law like my state has.

[reformist2]

12. Ugh. Sometimes I hate federalism!

[JoDog]

17. Illinois closed the loophole,

as has several other states. I purchased my target shooting pistol at a gun show...with a 72-hour waiting period and the background check provided with my FOID card.

Anyone who says we cannot close the loophole without endangering some "right" is out of their minds.

http://www.csgv.org/issues-and-campaigns/gun-show-loophole/gun-show-loophole-faq