Quit criticizing the President! This deal could have been a lot worse.

[dawg]

They could have raised the Medicare age to 67. Also, they could have just passed an across-the-board 10% cut to benefits.

It is also possible that they could have completely voucherized Medicare! Aren't you glad that isn't on the table?

And those "death panels". They could've done those too. But no one is proposing that, so why is everyone in such a meltdown mode?

Just think, they could have proposed lowering the minimum wage in order to make it easier for corporations to pay bottom-dollar wages here in America instead of shipping those jobs overseas. But they didn't. Really, what has been proposed isn't all that bad when you consider the alternatives.

Some want to completely eliminate the corporate income tax and make up the difference by levying a regressive consumption tax on consumers. The President hasn't put that on the table, has he? And he certainly hasn't given any credence to Republican notions of eliminating the Departments of Education, Energy, and ..... oops .... I forgot the other one.

Ultimately, some seniors may have to make do with less, but we all still have the right to vote don't we? And the Republicans haven't even asked for restoration of droit du seigneur for wealthy landowners, so our wives and daughters are still safe. Why all the bellyaching?

I thought this was supposed to be a Democratic board. Aren't we supposed to support the Democratic President's positions on all the issues?

[Hoyt]

1. As a GT grad, I hate agreeing with a Dawg. But I agree with this.

[leveymg]

46. The OP is fundamentally deluded about this: "we should all support the President on all issues"

(If the OP was meant as irony, it's very subtle - maybe too much so.) If the OP is serious, here's what I think:
What is this Russia? DU isn't a cheering section for Democratic officials and policies. It's a place for Democrats to discuss and criticize politics from a progressive prospective.

Blind obedience and support of bad policy is not progressive. I suggest the OP goes somewhere else if that's what he or she thinks we should be doing.

[Hoyt]

50. We have a lot of myopic folks here on this issue. I think we will be better off for our leaders'

courage on this issue, and that those on SS, unemployment, Medicare, etc., will be much better off in long-run for it.

In meantime, some folks will look only at one little aspect of their total benefits. I'm much better off from recent closing of donut hole, ACA, defense cuts, increases in taxes for wealth, etc, than if they hit me with the total 25 year impact of chained-CPI. I'm not dancing around because of it, I am really sorry to see some folks mired in focusing only on one aspect of the proposed deal.

[Bake]

69. And as soon as they show some courage, we'll be the first ones cheering.

So far we're still waiting.

Bake

[leveymg]

71. You do realize that changes to SS don't have to be negotiated as part of the "Cliff"?

I question even touching the benefits and Cost of Living formulas at this point. This is really a disaster as far as morale by the base, regardless of the overall merits. It has not been explained to us by Obama or any of the leadership why SS has to or should be be part of this deal.

[EOTE]

84. Hey, it could have been a lot worse. They could have voted in death squads to kill all your loved

ones. They also could have outlawed happiness and joy, Obama doesn't seem very bad now, does he?

[demwing]

86. DU is all of the above:

• a cheering section for Democratic officials and policies
• a place for Democrats to discuss politicians and policy from a progressive prospective
• a place for Democrats to criticize politicians and policy from a progressive prospective

We won't get very far till the cheerleaders and the critics learn to accept and respect each other

[leveymg]

92. You're perfectly right about that. I withdraw my harsh words to the OP

I just don't like being told to sit down, shut up and obey in my own stomping grounds. I don't even treat my dog that way.

[Justin_Beach]

2. Well ....

I see your point except your conclusion doesn't really work:

"I thought this was supposed to be a Democratic board. Aren't we supposed to support the Democratic President's positions on all the issues?"

It's democracy, not choose your dictator - Just because someone votes D or even R doesn't necessarily mean that they have to agree with the party leadership every single time on every single issue.

[treestar]

3. What deal?

Yes, it can be worse - Republicans can have bigger majorities or the Presidency.

It can only be better with a Democratic House.

[Little Star]

78. Will 2014 help bring a Democratic House if they touch SS & seniors stay home in disgust? n/t

[treestar]

94. Seniors tend to vote Republican

They are the reliable voters that show up in midterms and why we have so many Republican state houses and governorships and a Republican House in Washington. They got theirs, apparently, and don't want their taxes going back up and they fight for and support the candidates that will cause these standoffs every time.

If poor ones do that "in disgust" are they going to be disgusted when the more Republican House continues to do the same thing? There's a crisis every time because there is a Republican House. If the House were Democratic, there would be no need to try for a deal.

[forestpath]

4. SS benefits are first on the chopping block. What's next? Because something in your list will be.

[hobbit709]

5. I'll criticize who I want, when I want and about anything I want.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

52. Thank you.

[demwing]

87. And so?

does your right to be critical make your criticisms valid?

If you expect to express your critical side, expect to have your criticisms criticized.

[dawg]

6. DU 5 RC 0.

This is fun.

[Doctor_J]

7. You have yourself to thank when the Dems get clobbered in 2014

you and everyone who supported this Reaganite president's decision to cut SS

[graham4anything]

54. How's that Ralph Nader thingydingy from 2000 doing from the same type of idiotic protest?

Nader gave us Bush

Like the republicans you yourself will elect in 2014 will help you. Yeah, right.

you do see the folly of your repeated threats against Democrats nationwide, don't you?

[TheProgressive]

8. I think you forgot your sarcasm thingy...

But in case your post is real...

Dems have the Presidency and the Senate and the will of the people.

People don't want cuts to SS or Medicare.

So...the people don't have to 'settle' for anything less than the will of the people.

[dawg]

18. I'm not sure how to count you.

DU 6 RC 0 T 1

[TheProgressive]

20. What do you mean?

I will be happy to answer any questions you may have of me...!

[dawg]

26. Don't worry, I counted you as a "tie".

I think you strongly suspected that my post was sarcastic in tone. Still, I can't give you full credit. You weren't 100% sure that I wasn't simply being grateful that we stopped short of returning to the days of prima nocta.

[TheProgressive]

27. I don't think I like the game you are playing...

[dawg]

33. You're right.

I should probably stop keeping score. I thought I was being overtly and blatantly snarky with my OP. But I shouldn't be surprised by the number of people who took me literally.

[Egalitarian Thug]

89. No you shouldn't be surprised at all. n/t

[byeya]

24. Well said. Obama is conservative and needs to be pushed to do the right thing.

I didn't enjoy being pissed on his first two years in office and while I voted in the off year election, I can understand why Obama turned so many people off.
Many are not like good little DLCers.

[progressoid]

9. " droit du seigneur"

Well played.

[dawg]

17. You might be the first one.

[progressoid]

48. People seem to have lost the ability to see something glaringly obvious.

Clould be the stress of the last week?

[dawg]

60. I don't think it's that.

I think the problem is that so many "serious" posts these days are already so perilously close to self-parody, that when actual parody rears its snarky head, it's hard to tell the difference.

[Fumesucker]

67. Yes, it's known as a Poe

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Poe's_Law

[WorseBeforeBetter]

10. That's right. And per Carney, "technical adjustments ... is one sought by Republicans."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=post&forum=1002&pid=2025311

Good enough for me! GOBAMA!

[bhikkhu]

11. There is no deal

...and I'm not jumping to conclusions until there is.

How many times have we been through this? Always the spectre of doom, predictions of doom, rumors of doom, even pronouncements of doom...but never any actual doom.

[n2doc]

12. +1 n/t

[GoCubsGo]

15. Thank you.

And, thank you, admins for "Trash this thread". All of this gloom-and-doom prognosticating is getting really, really old.

[sabrina 1]

34. Was Chained CPI in the agreement Boehner turned down or did I imagine it?

[bhikkhu]

96. "Chained CPI" can be done a number of ways

...and the background to my view of it is that the current CPI measures are grossly unfair and inaccurate. What we have sucks, and has sucked for a very long time. Chained CPI isn't a bad concept, and has the potential to be a more fair system of measuring inflation than we have now, but it has to be done right. Like the current CPI measure, it can also be changed as we go along...though our current one was mostly changed the wrong way, by several presidents.

Obama's proposal, as far as we know from rumors, included a version of chained CPI - with "tweaks".

[Egalitarian Thug]

93. Don't know where you've been, but so far the 21st century has been pretty doomey. n/t

[woo me with science]

13. He's not a KING!

He HAD to use seniors as hostages! What else could he DO?!

[kenny blankenship]

44. The BASE let him down, with all their whining!

If they didn't scream in pain when he floats a proposed cut to this or that market-hostile Big Government program, he wouldn't feel obliged to give these concessions to the Republicans so freely. Then after the deed is done, the drama ponies pout and say they're not going to vote anymore. Well what can he do but try to appeal to more Republicans if that's the way the Democratic Base is going to behave?

It's all THEIR fault.

[leftstreet]

14. The Democrats will make privatized SS look more humane

Maybe that's part of the plan

Kick it down the road for the GOP to 'solve' the 'new' SS crisis

[RomneyLies]

16. How is that different from what's happened to my 401K? n/t

[leftstreet]

23. No different

Not sure what you mean, but it's easy to sell people on the benefits of 'private enterprise' when you first make sure public programs are underfunded.

[arjazz]

19. USED CAR SALESMAN: That's the best my manager can do for you

[Pretzel_Warrior]

21. No. I won't.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

22. You're asking too much. Reason is in short supply 'round these parts.

[RomneyLies]

25. Thanks for putting it out there. Now Obama will offer up jus primae noctis in his next round

[dawg]

28. DU 13 RC 3 T 3

Reading Comprehension is taking even more of a beating than I expected, but I'm counting you as number 3.

[darkangel218]

31. whats primae noctis

[progressoid]

38. ...

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-ius-primae-noctis.htm

[darkangel218]

41. Woa!!

So the "lords of the mannor" were forcing women to have sex with them? That's sick :/

[RomneyLies]

47. jus primae noctis is Latin

Right of First Night.

Ir was a play off the OP term, droit du seigneur, which is French for "Right of the Lord".

[AnotherMcIntosh]

63. There might be a difference in that "jus primae noctis" refers to the right of the lord to have the

right of the first night with a bride on a wedding night whereas "droit du seigneur" may be broader and encompass a right of a lord to have a young woman repeatedly even up until her wedding night.

Think of it this way. A politican who wants "jus primae noctis" just wants to fuck new voters. A politiican who wants "droit du seigneur" wants to repeatedly fuck us over until the Republicans take over again.

[Fumesucker]

29. ...

[dawg]

36. Manny does this schtick much better than I.

[plethoro]

30. Ultimately some seniors will have to do with less.... I work with seniors, sir, and

they can't do with less. Capiche? Your comments will put Republicans in the winning column in both the 2014 bloodbath and the 2016 resolve. At a time when the Democratic Party was standing proud and in the process of eliminating the Republicans, the exact reverse will happen. I'm getting emails, phone calls, text messages, etc every five minutes to that effect from my diabetic website. I might move a little on anything but cuts to Social Security.

[RebelOne]

72. Yes, as a senior collecting Social Security,

there is no way I could do with less. Even though, I just received a notice from the SS yesterday that my benefit will be increased as of January from a little over $14,000 not including Medicare to $1,379 after Medicare, it is still not easy to live on. That only comes to $344.75 weekly. Who nowadays can live on that amount? And with the President's proposal, there will be no more COLA in the near future and I will have to live on that amount for who knows how long.

[plethoro]

76. Yeah, I can only imagine the horror of January. If we don't hit the streets, we may

be on the streets. Good luck to you.

[Cleita]

32. It shouldn't have been on the table at all.

Social Security and Medicare have 0 to do with the deficit. As a senior I don't know how I will do with less. In the last three years I finally got a COLA of twenty five dollars. My actual COLA has tripled in the last three years where food, gas and insurance is concerned. The only thing that hasn't gone up is my rent because I live on family property and they haven't raised it on me although they could get twice as much rent as I pay them. Right now I have to go to the store and I will have to pay with a credit card because my SS is a week away and I have no money left in the bank. I'm almost 73 years old. I don't know how I will be able to survive if I live to be eighty with this plan. I'm quite willing to work but no one will give me a job these days because they are overflowing with younger applicants. I'm fortunate that I'm in good health, but what if I need assisted living in the future, how will that work out?

[ChiciB1]

70. Good For You Clieta... My Husband & I Got 1.7% Increase

That means I get $14 a month & my husband gets $21 a month. Total for year... $420.00!

That barely covers 1-2 weeks of groceries. And I happen to live in one of the wealthiest counties in Florida. Can't leave, been here since 1978 and can't get up and sell. Family lives here as well. This is where my husband got a job before he retired & we ARE NOT wealthy my any stretch of the imagination! I'm not even sure we're middle class anymore.

As for getting a job... well I don't think that's gonna happen! We bought 5 acres of land for an investment some time ago, but now can't sell it unless we take a loss. Another problem is that my husband's parents passed away & we can't get rid of their place either. Add to that the house I live in... TAXES up the WAZOO!

I do some house cleaning & my husband mows, but this year may be the first time I might have to put taxes on my credit card. I only have one with the Credit Union, but this sucks.

We did have some money saved, but when my son was younger he & his wife had a drug problem & we tried our best to get help. Fortunately they've both been clean for 7 years & actually doing well. Do I ask them for a loan?? WOW!

[Cleita]

85. I'm actually in tears about this.

I had an argument with my family about this a few weeks ago. I said I feared that they are going after our benefits. They said it wasn't true, that it was their benefits (they are in their late fifties) that were going to be cut. I said that wasn't right either, but I really feared they are going after mine and I'm barely scraping by. They kept assuring me that I would be okay, that no politician would touch that.

I was right

[ChiciB1]

95. I'm Right There With You...

Kept hearing this isn't final they're STILL working on it. And you know what else? I'm getting really, really tired of having to wonder about these things, then find I actually have to deal with the damage.

Will it ever stop? I know I'm older but my mind still thinks clearly. I CAN NOT tell anyone how many times I've said, well at least I'm more fortunate than some others, I'm not sleeping on the streets, I can still buy food but my life is spinning downward too. How much longer will I be able to rationalize this away?

[kenny blankenship]

35. And Pink Slime isn't really that bad!

And it's also quite cheap, for those who find themselves needing an affordable alternative to name brand Cat Food. Feeling spendy this week? Treat yourself to some Friskies. Point is: the Market provides options unlike Big Government; and those options represent the best of all possible worlds simply by being there, simply by their -often bewildering- multiplicity. That's what our President understands, even if some around here have forgotten. We are all still Free To Choose! And none of these proposals diminishes that, neither the actually offered plans nor the strictly hypothetical ones. I think some people just lose all perspective. They think their life as a 99%er debt slave is supposed to be all rainbows and ponies. Oh, the drama!

[reformist2]

37. "Aren't we supposed to support the President's positions on all the issues?" LOL

[Angry Dragon]

39. I fail to see any intelligent points in your post

[dawg]

43. Good.

I didn't put any in there.

[Glitterati]

40. NO it couldn't.

This BS is going to KILL people. Starve them to death.

How could ANYthing be worse?

[darkangel218]

42. Im far from the retirement age, but

The way things are going lately, I'm really worried where I'm gonna end up when I'm old. It seems only the well off ppl who have investments and such will be somewhat safe and okay.

Politics seem to be moving towards the right on an alarming pace. I personally don't think Obama will make cuts in the SS, but what's gonna happen when he leaves office? Our society seems to reverse lil by lil to the jungle rules, where only the strong and powerful survive. Yikes

[dawg]

45. I'm being sneaky and subtle in order to make a point on a message board.

But there are men and women much more sneaky and subtle than me, and far more clever too, who are working relentlessly to transform our society into something much less favorable to ordinary people who are not "to the manor born."

If we don't wake up to that soon, the dream that America once was (and still could be) will be over.

I consider the people of DU to be among the best and brightest of all the politically aware people in the country. If DU'ers fail to see how the elite are gradually tightening their fingers around our necks, then no one else will realize it either.

Sorry to be such a downer.

[dionysus]

49. what deal? there is no deal.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

53. What deal?

When did they make a deal? What deal are we talking about? This is from the Whitehouse webpage.
rotecting & Strengthening Social Security

President Obama believes that all seniors should be able to retire with dignity, not just a privileged few. And, he believes that all Americans deserve to know that, if they become disabled or if they lose the breadwinner in the family, Social Security will be there to protect them. Today, nearly 54 million Americans receive Social Security benefits, including 38 million retirees and their family members, 10 million Americans with disabilities and their dependents, and 6 million survivors of deceased workers.

For many of these Americans, Social Security is a key source of income. In fact, for more than half of Social Security recipients aged 65 or over, the program provides over 50 percent of their family income and, because of its lifetime income protection and survivors benefits, Social Security is particularly important for elderly women. . Moreover, the program is not just for seniors. Because of features like survivors benefits, Social Security is one of the largest antipoverty programs for children, and disability benefits also help younger workers and their families and are particularly important to minority communities.

The President is committed to protecting and strengthening Social Security—and securing the basic compact that hard work should be rewarded with dignity at retirement or in case of disability or early death. That’s why he has called on Congress to work on a bipartisan basis to preserve Social Security as a reliable source of income for American seniors and as a program that provides robust benefits to survivors and workers who develop disabilities. He believes that no current beneficiaries should see their basic benefits reduced and he will not accept an approach that slashes benefits for future generations. The President also stands firmly opposed to privatization and rejects the notion that the future of hard-working Americans should be left to the fluctuations of financial markets.
Strengthening Retirement

In addition to protecting and strengthening Social Security, President Obama will make it easier for Americans to save on their own for retirement and prepare for unforeseen expenses. Currently over 75 million working Americans—about half the workforce—lack access to retirement plans through their employers. The President’s budget lays the foundation for all Americans to participate in retirement accounts at work, proposing simple rules and automatic enrollment—that will automatically enroll workers in IRAs who, until now, haven’t had a workplace retirement plan, while allowing them to opt out if they wish.

This should dramatically increase savings participation rates. In 401(k) plans, automatic enrollment has tended to increase participation rates to more than nine out of ten eligible employees. In contrast, for workers who lack access to a retirement plan at their workplace, the current IRA participation rate tends to be less than one out of ten.

[BeyondGeography]

55. Rec'd, even though it's a joke

The Freepers are feeling fleeced as well:

[MattBaggins]

56. "supposed to support the Democratic President's positions on ALL the issues?"

No

[markpkessinger]

57. LOL! Shades of Brittany Spears...

... but you had me going there for a minute!

[dawg]

61. I love to see *you* try to negotiate with the Republicans.

It's hard!

So lay off!

[markpkessinger]

73. And hey, it's not like he told us to eat our peas or anything ;) n/t

[AnotherMcIntosh]

58. You know, there are a lot of people who don't immediately recognize and appreciate sarcasm.

And you're right, we'll lucky that the droit du seigneur has not been brought back for wealthy landowners.

On the other hand, maybe Obama is exercising that right.

[upi402]

59. Where's the President who acts like a Democrat?

Jesus. There is a D after his name and an R all over his actions.

Reminds me of battered wife denial around here.

No. I wont stop criticizing the man and his Republican policies.
Stop telling us what to do - how about that?

[bowens43]

62. fuck that. we didn't need a deal. . Obama is caving, just as he always has.

he is weak president. He is not a leader.

saying it could have been worse is a piss poor excuse.

[Marrah_G]

64. It's hard to tell satire from real posts these days

[a2liberal]

65. Not sure if this is satire (n/t)

[dawg]

66. That's what makes it ...

so much fun!

[Rainforestgoddess]

68. It could be worse,

Obama could be feeding the needy Irish babies!

[dawg]

75. That wouldn't be very swift ....

or would it?

[JimDandy]

74. He is an incredibly weak leader.

His ears are all for his buddy corporateers. We didn't need Health insurance forced on us - We needed health care. Surrounding himself with Warren Buffet types and Republicans - well I guess we got what we voted for - crap.

[TheKentuckian]

97. I think he has a will of steel, very smart, and is masterful at leading folks even where they don't

to go.

Just happens to be a statist, corporate asshole.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

77. Aren't we supposed to support the Democratic President's positions on all the issues? NO.

If we supported him on all the issues, we wouldn't be Democrats. We would be Republicans, pure and simple.

We need to raise our voices, and let him know that what he's proposing is wrong!

[dawg]

80. Some of us raise our voices with subtle sarcasm ...

just to see how far down the rabbit hole we've gone. Apparently we've gone pretty far. I tried to make my OP as over-the-top as possible, stopping just short of making it an obvious parody of other similar such threads. Sadly, we have become so accustomed to these calls for unquestioning party unity that most people took my post completely at face value. Rec'd it even.

[dennis4868]

79. Like I said on other threads...

the changes to SS will not effect the most vulnerable...there will be a special exception in the law according to the WH. People here don't want to mention this for some reason.

[kath]

81. Good one, dawg! Too bad so many here are satire/irony impaired (as we like to say the Freepers are)

or reading-comprehension-impaired.


"Ultimately, some seniors may have to make do with less, but we all still have the right to vote don't we? And the Republicans haven't even asked for restoration of droit du seigneur for wealthy landowners, so our wives and daughters are still safe. Why all the bellyaching?" This paragraph wasn't enough to clue people in to the fact that you were being sarcastic? Really??!?

"And he certainly hasn't given any credence to Republican notions of eliminating the Departments of Education, Energy, and ..... oops .... I forgot the other one." - this part was good too.


Oy.

[dawg]

83. Labor.

I think the other one was going to be Labor.

[mrdmk]

82. From Bad, too Worse, too Worse Yet, too 'hey, it's all Groovy!' (A too B too C too D)

All down a line.

Thank-you Sir, may I have another?

[SomethingFishy]

88. It's not time to talk about "the deal"

we have to wait until it's too late. Just like everything else.

[BigDemVoter]

90. The election is over. . . We won. . . .

So EVERYBODY has a right to criticize right now if they want. I may not agree with one's criticism, but I really don't care if somebody wants to do so. Don't agree? Don't read it.

For the record, I'm not one who's been criticizing the POTUS.

[Egalitarian Thug]

91. Agreed, but I have my suspicions about you.

You talk about those things as if they were bad.

[Fire Walk With Me]

98. I survive (not "live") at 50% of the poverty cut-off income amount via SS. If he touches it at all,

I will be louder than a continent of banshees.