I don't think SS should be cut at all... HOWEVER

[berni_mccoy]

The difference per year to an individual receiving SS is less than 0.3% of a 3% increase comparing the current CPI to the chained CPI. According to the BLS, the Chained CPI was less than 0.3% lower than the currently used CPI over the last decade. For a 3% cost-of-living increase to a SS beneficiary, that's 0.009% a difference in what they would normally get.

I've heard fantastic numbers being touted around here and I think everyone could benefit from understanding exactly what the change in the CPI calculation means. That is what is being proposed in exchange for getting the rich to pay multiple percentage points more in tax revenue.

[Cleita]

1. Just my personal problem with this as I posted elsewhere:

Social Security and Medicare have 0 to do with the deficit. As a senior I don't know how I will do with less. In the last three years I finally got a COLA of twenty five dollars. My actual COLA has tripled in the last three years where food, gas and insurance is concerned. The only thing that hasn't gone up is my rent because I live on family property and they haven't raised it on me although they could get twice as much rent as I pay them. Right now I have to go to the store and I will have to pay with a credit card because my SS is a week away and I have no money left in the bank. I'm almost 73 years old. I don't know how I will be able to survive if I live to be eighty with this plan. I'm quite willing to work but no one will give me a job these days because they are overflowing with younger applicants. I'm fortunate that I'm in good health, but what if I need assisted living in the future, how will that work out?

I don't know how this will affect seniors as a demographic, but this is how it will affect me personally.

[RebelOne]

5. It will affect me the same as you.

I will be 74 in January and living solely on SS. I have some savings, but I try not go touch that money because I know I will need it for an emergency eventually. Yes, I would love to work, but no one is going to hire me at this age.

[rustydog]

10. You're correct, SS has nothing to do with the defecit and the GOP

still controls this debate. They want to kill it.
If there was a Bill on improving dam safety in the USA, some fucking Republican would tie reducing or killing SS to improving dam safety.

their attack on us makes me sick.

[reformist2]

2. Chained-CPI reduces COLAs by 10%. So in the long-run, SS benefits will be 10% lower.

Here's a simple test you can do on your calculator.

Start with a $1000 benefit. Multiply it by 1.03, twenty times. You get a $1,806 benefit by 2032.
Now, multiply it by 1.027 (a 0.3% reduction), twenty times. You get a $1,704 benefit by 2032.

[berni_mccoy]

3. The BLS Calculated 3% over a 10 year period. Where do you get 10% from?

[reformist2]

8. HERE'S THE MATH.

Last edited Wed Dec 19, 2012, 02:18 PM - Edit history (1)

Start with a $1,000 benefit.

Multiply by thirty years of 3% COLAs. That would be $1,000 x 1.03^30. You end up with a $2,427 benefit by 2042.
Now, multiply by thrity years of 2.7% COLAs, using the "chained CPI." (Note the 0.3% reduction). You end up with $2,224.

That's 8.4% less in just thirty years. I'm not going to do the proof, but the 10% reduction in COLAs leads to the overall benefit dropping by 10% over time.

[berni_mccoy]

14. That is Horrible Math.

You use 20 years for CPI, then 30 years for Chained-CPI. Apples and oranges don't equate. The standard is 10 years to determine a total cost impact, and here that is a total 3% cumulative difference.

[reformist2]

17. Sorry, I meant to say thirty years in both cases. The numbers are correct now.

[Comrade_McKenzie]

4. People are up in arms over 0.3%? I know people that have worked 10 years without one raise. nt

[Cleita]

22. And that is very wrong too.

Minimum wage was once tied to cost of living too. Unions also kept wages in the living wage range. We need to repeal those laws from the Reagan area on up that have turned workers into low wage slaves. Also, higher wages and lower unemployment adds more FICA revenue to Social Security. I'm all for it.

[Autumn]

6. SS has nothing to do with the deficit. Nothing.

It's a disgrace it's even in the discussion. The rich should fucking pay more. Fuck that CPI

[Comrade_McKenzie]

9. I agree, but we should refrain from hyperbole over such a minuscule number. nt

[Autumn]

11. I don't give a fuck it it turns out to be 10 cents cut from a SS check

it's a fucking disgrace that it's even included.

[berni_mccoy]

15. It's not about the deficit. That will be directly returned to SS payments of current workers.

the 0.03% difference will be reduced from *paychecks*.

[Autumn]

18. Social Security should not be a part of these talks

lip stick on a pig is still a pig wearing lipstick. CPI will harm the elderly and Veterans.

[Cleita]

23. We don't need lower revenue on paychecks. We need higher paychecks so that the

FICA deduction is not a burden to the worker and senior citizens don't have to starve.

[sabrina 1]

7. Why is SS on the table in discussions about something it had nothing to do with??

[gkhouston]

20. +1000. If the Republicans asked for us to subsidize hookers for them, would that be on the table?

btw, what about subsidies for the oil companies?

[Bluenorthwest]

12. But you know...

Bernie, this nation put two wars 'off budget', wars of choice no less, and we did so without so much as flinching. For such a nation to then consider taking a haypenny from the least among us is simply shameful. Can you explain to me in any detail why you don't think that is shameful? I'd love to hear that.

[berni_mccoy]

16. As I said, I don't think SS should be impacted.

That being said, this isn't about the deficit. It's about economic stimulus. If Chained CPI is used, it will mean less money from paychecks into FICA. That is more money will stay in workers pockets.

[littlemissmartypants]

13. What ever happened to the

"It's a matter of principle." argument? That IMHO is all that is called for in certain situations. After you split a hair multiple times it no longer resembles hair.

[No Compromise]

19. this should be in the discussions at all which is why everyone is and should be pissed off

But I was thinking the same thing about the $$

Perhaps we can take the chained CPI if they stop speculating on our commodities.

Seniors are paying a helluva lot more to Koch and Goldman Sachs than $130 per year.

They want to chain the CPI? Then Stop Goldman Sachs and Koch from Speculating on our Food and Gas
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022030269

[Cleita]

21. If we fold on this, they will keep chipping away until we are back to 1932.

We can't fold on this or any of our already eroded social programs.

[cali]

24. sorry, that is NOT what I'm reading.

http://americablog.com/2012/12/why-chained-cpi-is-a-catfood-proposal.html

http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/the-best-life/2012/12/19/how-chained-cpi-affects-social-security-cola