General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCan anyone explain why we're so hated?
Why is our brand, our party so poisonous to the point that half of MAGATs would still support the felon even if the Epstein Files incriminated him?
What did we do that was so wrong, so terrible?
Because we believe in promoting equality and were for the existence of trans people and we dont care if people use pronouns or identify as something?
Because we believe people in this country deserve due process and deserve to prove their case before possible deportations?
How messed up are peoples priorities if theyll vote against us just because of the trans issue, if theyll vote because they hate us so much that theyre destroying America?
Never forget:
- No trans person raised the debt and deficit. This White House did.
- No trans person is responsible for higher prices. This White House is.
- No trans person is responsible for the decrease in private sector jobs and slower hiring. This White House is.
- No trans person has us on the verge of recession. This White House does.
- No trans person is responsible for taking away peoples healthcare. Republicans are.
- No trans person is why some women are dying in red states. An extreme, corrupt SCOTUS is.
- No trans person is why Social Security will run out of money within the next decade if we dont do anything. Government, especially Republicans, are.
This is what we should campaign on - lowering the debt, lowering the deficit, empowering workers and consumers and taking a burden off people with the tariffs while using revenue collected from tariffs to fund Social Security with a promise to release the Epstein Files with only victims names redacted and perpetrator names unredacted and the promise to go after anybody implicated in the files, regardless of party.
SheltieLover
(77,153 posts)Bettie
(19,326 posts)they preach hate from the pulpits....and now, they'll be holding actual political rallies most Sundays!
BoRaGard
(7,591 posts)gop hate preachers are twisted out of shape
SheltieLover
(77,153 posts)Martin Eden
(15,382 posts)-- and Democrats as hating America and persecuting Christains.
Though none of that is true, the rightwing noise machine from the early days of Rush Limbaugh through Fox News and internet podcasts & rabbit holes -- all of that -- is validated from the pulpit by a reactionary strain of Christianity which seeks to impose its own narrow minded strictures on everyone else.
Elements of that, along with racial and gender bigotry, have fostered strongly embedded tribal animosity which is extremely difficult to dislodge. Tribal loyalty comes before facts and reason.
Also, a strain of anti-intellectualism in America has long disdained academia and scientific expertise. This has been siezed upon and exploited by unscrupulous "populist" politicians who present themselves as relatable regular guys who understand the grievances of common folk and will finally do something about it.
Combined, these traits of American culture built the foundation which made it possible for an utterly corrupt con man like Donald Trump to become president of the United States.
If the consequences of this presidency cause real harm to his voters, and enough of them can connect the dots, it may be possible to begin repairing the damage and to build something for a better future.
SheltieLover
(77,153 posts)We drove from Memphis to Chicago a year ago, through rural magat country. ALL that was on radio was "you're going to burn in hell" bullshit.
How do they get people to buy into fear of the human constructs of "hell?"
moniss
(8,791 posts)"Screaming Bigot Show" and as I would drive during the day through one market area after another I would see how they were all the same in reality. Attack the schools, attack government programs and services, attack the poor as being lazy, attack people of color as not qualified, attack paying taxes, attack environmental programs, attack regulations, attack science, attack higher education, attack LGBTQ+ people, attack equal treatment for women etc. all in a recurring loop.
The part that always got me about these shows is the "callers" and listeners believing what they hear as being truthful. Shows would have staff call in and pretend to be plain citizens calling in to tell the bigoted host how right they were. It even got so crazy as scientific or medical topics for example would come up and phony "experts" would call in. If the discussion was nuclear weapons for example they would suddenly get a call from a guy claiming to be a nuclear physicist working at the highest levels with 30 years experience. The "caller" would back up whatever view the show host was pushing. The brain dead listeners never thought to ask themselves "Gee does it seem legit that such a topnotch guy would really be in Sioux City, Iowa listening to this show at 11:00 a.m. and call in?" But of course they would hear this kind of thing and take it as validation of the view pushed by the host. Just like a propagandist wants.
These shows always should have been required to be labeled as propaganda. If a show is truly just exchanging views that is one matter but when shows veer into "production" enhancements and phony callers etc. it is then clearly staged propaganda.
Bettie
(19,326 posts)I keep saying (to DH, no one else listens to me!) that we need someone to start up some AM radio religious shows that use the kinder side of Christianity, interspersed with some music and some talk shows that gently pull them toward some less evil ideology.
But, that takes money and even "liberal" billionaires are focused almost entirely on making their bank accounts larger.
vapor2
(3,872 posts)no_hypocrisy
(54,396 posts)balkanized and alienated since Bush Senior and Lee Atwater. No bipartisanship. No collaboration. No trust. I heard that Republicans have been told to not even socialize with Dems (e.g., dinner parties).
Iris
(16,851 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(26,476 posts)tulipsandroses
(8,132 posts)Rogan alluded to it recently - Its dems fault that people voted for republicans because republicans let you say what you want and Dems are assholes.
Its just too much to ask not to be a racist, bigot, misogynist. Its just too much for them.
None of this is about policy. The immigration fight is not about policy. Its about the fear of minorities " taking over".
Trueblue Texan
(4,223 posts)JustAnotherGen
(37,631 posts)They are what they are and can never be changed.
I don't care - I just want them to get out of my way.
NewHendoLib
(61,620 posts)Conjuay
(2,927 posts)And every other asshole who found their way in front a microphone.
paleotn
(21,668 posts)A perverted view of America coupled with hate, scapegoats and fundegelical religion. Perpetrated by some of the most evil bastards in American history. If you repeat the bullshit long enough, you can get the land of Beethoven, Goethe, Kant, Braun and Einstein to happily kill 6 million Jews, 23 million Russians and countless others. Why should we be any different?
I cannot overemphasize the guilt of fundy religion in all this, particularly in the south. It can't die fast enough. Think about that the next time you pass some mega church. They're now an accomplice to some of the worst evil in our history. I despise them with the heat of a 1,000 suns.
oswaldactedalone
(3,601 posts)CrispyQ
(40,723 posts)Supposedly this phrase was carved into the walls of a concentration camp cell during WWII by a Jewish prisoner. As an atheist, I think it's a totally appropriate response to God's judgement & if I'm wrong & God does exist, I hope I remember it when my judgement time comes.
I also like a comment I read on Facebook, that Satan was actually the first resistor to an authoritarian regime.
paleotn
(21,668 posts)"OK, guys. What did I miss? .....Oh shit."
The whole human concept of a god like being is self defeating. Or they're a galactic ass. Take your pick.
comradebillyboy
(10,937 posts)appealing to the extremes that they forget to look at the concerns of the majority.
Most things are better when Democrats are in charge but the cultural messaging is so ineffective it negates all the good results the party produces.
CrispyQ
(40,723 posts)With a ton of help from the media, voters listened more to Trump's whining than they did to Harris' policy plans. It was the Trump & the republicans who made trans an issue, not the dems. The last month of the campaign, Trump spent 40% of his ad budget on anti-trans ads, so for all the folks tired of the trans issue, its coming from the right, not the left.
Here's Google's AI overview of the Harris campaign's "kitchen table" issues, which if you read it, is way more comprehensive than anything Trump proposed.
During her 2024 campaign, Kamala Harris focused on several economic issues, emphasizing policies aimed at strengthening the middle class and addressing the rising cost of living.
Inflation and cost of living: Harris highlighted concerns about high prices, especially for groceries, and proposed a federal ban on price gouging by large corporations that exploit consumers during crises. She advocated for stricter penalties for companies that engage in such practices.
Taxes: Harris proposed a mix of tax increases for high-income earners and large corporations, and tax cuts and credits for low- and middle-income families. This included restoring and making permanent expansions to the child tax credit (CTC) and earned income tax credit (EITC), particularly targeting families with young children.
Housing affordability: Harris's plan included initiatives to boost housing construction, provide down payment assistance and tax credits for first-time homebuyers, and address high rental costs by targeting investors who buy up properties in bulk and use algorithms to set rents.
Small businesses: Harris proposed expanding the tax deduction for business startup costs, simplifying tax filing for entrepreneurs, granting more federal contracts to small businesses, and establishing a fund to support businesses in underserved areas.
Healthcare costs: Harris's proposals aimed to lower healthcare costs by expanding Medicare's drug price negotiation powers, capping insulin and prescription drug costs for all Americans, and providing support for healthcare professionals in rural areas.
In summary, Harris's campaign focused on addressing inflation and the cost of living through targeted interventions and tax policies designed to benefit middle and lower-income families. Her plan also included measures to increase housing affordability, support small businesses, and reduce healthcare costs.
The media is a HUGE part of our problem.
The media is only as liberal as the conservative corporations that own it. ~bumper sticker
comradebillyboy
(10,937 posts)Pukes taking control of the House and Senate despite all those wonderful achievements. Blaming the media won't solve our problems. Rich people aren't going to go away.
The media hated Bill Clinton but he was hugely successful and popular. Obama was also quite successful and popular. Maybe we should look at why they did so well.
Paladin
(32,329 posts)Your right-wing talking points are bad enough. That Cowboys star sealed the deal.
Keepthesoulalive
(2,135 posts)Democrats are focusing on? Bill Clinton made a lot of decisions that are still hurting us today.
Skittles
(169,802 posts)treating trans folk like human beings?
BlueTsunami2018
(4,886 posts)We should be more extreme instead of always siding with the ruling class at the end of the day.
The right is allowed to be straight up fascists but gods forbid someone calls for strengthening the working class even a tiny bit. Even Democrats are afraid of offending the capitalist pig masters.
Fuck all that culture war bullshit, were in a class war. And we should repeat this over and again. Workers over owners. Labor over capital.
Where are the Huey Longs and Henry Wallaces of today?
Solomon
(12,635 posts)And that's white people have discovered they are becoming a minority. I know I know. We don't want to admit that its race.
But it's race.
Tomorrow someone will ask again in a different way.
appmanga
(1,390 posts)...will explain away why this country is now being run by a cabal of fascistic white supremacist Christian Nationalists by saying "It was the price of eggs". So many people just can't come to terms with the fact their mom, dad, Aunt Billie, and Uncle John are just fine with whatever it takes to keep this a "white man's country", so they buy into whatever smokescreen is thrown up to keep them from thinking their relatives are bad people. And bigots are bad people. Not necessarily evil people, but bad people nonetheless.
And the Democrats and "liberals" who see black and brown people as interchangeable, such as when a Joy Reid loses her job, but black people should be relieved because a Michael Steele is taking her place, aren't that far away from this.
OLDMDDEM
(3,041 posts)EdmondDantes_
(1,428 posts)Some is culture war.
Some is a response to a changing world and needing someone to blame for not being successful. It's easy to blame women for men not getting laid or immigrants for not making more money. Trans people are "different" which is scary because of the unknown.
Because for people with privilege, often equality feels like oppression. I know someone who swears affirmative action is racist, but also whines that as a legacy he should have gotten into the University of Pennsylvania because one set of inherited traits is fine to get a boost and surprise it's the one that benefits him. Same guy honestly believes he's in favor of meritocracy because he doesn't see the irony.
W_HAMILTON
(10,113 posts)RedWhiteBlueIsRacist
(1,910 posts)mcar
(45,718 posts)chia
(2,755 posts)Isn't he the one that came up with "feminazi?"
Nigrum Cattus
(1,242 posts)And project 2025 is at the heart of that. They truly
believe that somehow tsf is a christian of their liking.
It is 100% religious BS. Consequently "they" act with
staunch, sectarian blind faith, it isn't political.
https://www.project2025.observer/en
J_William_Ryan
(3,357 posts)Being on the correct side of history; being right on the issues, where Republicans know theyre wrong.
And to conceal the fact that theyre wrong on the issues Republicans, decades ago, began a campaign of disinformation and lies to vilify and demonize liberals.
Its easy for Republicans to spread disinformation and lies; its become impossible for Democrats to respond with facts and the truth.
Keepthesoulalive
(2,135 posts)They are deserving of federal programs, other people are takers. They dont say the quiet part out loud but at its base it is racism, sexism and every other ism you can think of. They also dont like people with higher education because it makes them feel inferior. You have a complicit media that reinforces these insecurities.
Warpy
(114,426 posts)their leadership encourages them to hate. It's how Hitler got into power and stayed there. It's how Putin is managing to stay in powerr. It's why King ColostomyBag is going to be so difficult to dislodge when this term is up (although it won't be any fun any more, so I really don't expect him to finish it).
It's just how conservatives are wired, they always need someone to hate and will slavishly follow anyone who supplies them with targets.
RandomNumbers
(19,080 posts)Trans issues are a fig leaf, one of several excuses for the real issue, that an expected path to prosperity has disappeared for a certain group. Relative deprivation (note, "relative" is a crucial term here) creates resentment. When the person feeling deprived doesn't know the real reason for their failure to progress as expected, they will look for scapegoats. Scapegoats found: other groups, particularly those groups who the scapegoater can easily "justify" opposing based on their culture's accepted standards - e.g. Christian dogma, which meanwhile some sects have twisted over the years to strengthen the supposed justification for reprisal against these groups, e.g. LGBTQ, independent women, immigrants.
I bet many here will disagree with the below analysis - and that is EXACTLY why we have lost this group - overall as a party, failing to understand and even PRETEND to care about the impact of the below problem on the demographic group that has tended heavily MAGAt.
FACT: Jobs in certain high-skilled specialties have been outsourced to non-Americans (both immigrants and overseas) for around 20 years, give or take. If you think of career progression as a ladder, you can say that many rungs near the bottom have been removed for Americans who might have had the talent and interest for those jobs. Note that this includes Americans in all non-elderly demographics - but for one demographic particularly, this is a primary reason for resentment, as other issues that might be more critical to them - such as police abuse, or reproductive slavery, tend not to apply to them.
I know the above is a FACT because I have lived it.
ALSO FACT: Neither party will really make a dent in this outflow of opportunity. Because it is not in their financial interest to do so. Because POLITICS RUN ON MONEY and company political donations are going to go to what they think helps their bottom line. The outsourcing of these jobs at least overtly (and tbh, probably in reality, just not as starkly) improves the bottom line. Ergo, many large, software-dependent companies will support politicians who will not screw with their cheap labor pipeline.
ALSO FACT: Democrats I have spoken with have almost completely failed to acknowledge this issue, and some have implied that the person raising it is "racist". (OMG, those folks have no idea what real racism is, nor the fact of who is impacted at least as badly as white Americans - that would be black Americans, to whom these jobs that once may have presented opportunity, are now almost completely closed off.)
The MAGA movement has PRETENDED to care about this issue, but mostly have successfully obfuscated it by focusing on the scapegoat issues that they have effectively steered their followers to.
Democrats, in my experience, have not even pretended to care, and have even attacked people who think this is an issue. (e.g., me).
If this were my "Gaza" issue like some extremist "liberals" in the last election, I wouldn't vote Democrat. But I continue to register and vote Democrat because Republicans are SO EVIL on ALMOST EVERYTHING ELSE (and I even struggle to justify "almost" ). I gave up a long time ago on Democratic politicians supporting my position every single issue I care about. This is a huge one, IMO, but it is up to the Democratic voters to wake up and realize that there is real pain behind why white Americans and especially males support Republicans - and act like they, Democrats, give a shit. And help to make their Dem politicians realize it too. Although it may be too late now, because of the effective replacement of the real issue with the scapegoat issues in the MAGAt mind. And no Democrat should cave on LGBTQ or the environment or women's freedom.
If you made it this far, thank you for reading. Just to reiterate one point: the "real pain" I speak of, has NOTHING to do with LGBTQ, or most issues that the wrong-wing uses as excuses. Those "issues" are only scapegoats.
Response to EnergizedLib (Original post)
Celerity This message was self-deleted by its author.
maxrandb
(17,189 posts)Why do Nazis hate Jewish people?
Why does the KKK hate minorities and Catholics?
Why do misogynists hate woman?
Why do fascists hate free people?
You might as well ask why rapists rape, or why murderers murder.
There is something broken inside that 47% that would vote for a pedophile rapist. In fact, I'm surprised that percentage isn't higher. ANYONE that voted for, or continues to support this evil, stupid jackass, IS BROKEN INSIDE.
I don't give a fuck that they "hate" me! I wear their hate like a fucking medal on my chest.
The only thing I care about, is doing all that I can do, to prevent these hatefilled, racist, fascist asspickles from have the power of the fucking state backing them.
Donnie Dipshit voters...EVERY GOD-DAMNED last one of them, are as worthless as the dogshit that gets stuck in the grooves of your tennis shoes.
EnergizedLib
(2,933 posts)But its quite alarming how were perceived if 47% could still support the felon if proven to have raped underage girls.
maxrandb
(17,189 posts)to watch lions devour Christians.
American racists used to have picnics and bring their children to watch lynchings.
Some people pull the wings off flies.
It's nothing new. These worthless, evil, psychopaths have been around since the first slimy amphibian crawled through the muck and started walking erect.
The difference today, is a minority of voters, in the right electoral majority of states, gave these psychopaths a trifecta of state power.
It's part of the reason I am on and support the LEFT political side. I know that, despite ANY flaws the "left" may have, they would NEVER govern in this authoritarian fascist way.
Their own voters would be the first to rise up and put a stop to it.
LearnedHand
(5,251 posts)Getting super cozy with corporate donors has all but swallowed up Dems social liberalism. We police peoples language but dont do a goddamn thing to materially stop the evacuation of wealth to the billionaires. Even a Dem congress wont pass legislation the people love but corporations hate. Its one of the reasons people believe theres not a dimes worth of difference between the parties.
https://jacobin.com/2022/07/democratic-party-neoliberalism-dlc-clinton
RandomNumbers
(19,080 posts)is because FUCKING NADER AND MICHAEL MOORE CAMPAIGNED ON THAT SLOGAN.
Lest we forget.
DFW
(59,773 posts)Im currently on Cape Cod, so Republicans are hard to find here anyway, but even back in Dallas there are plenty of Democrats to hang with.
What might give you that impression? Fox News, National Hate Radio, and religious extremism, which (no matter which brand) usually means a small number of clever, greedy, irreligious manipulators garnering money from a vast number of followers who donate their money along with all desire to think for themselves.
In my experience, once logic dominates, religious extremism ceases to do so.
2MuchNoise
(723 posts)Smokster
(16 posts)Which is one of the problems in a long list of other issues. That, in and of itself will always push people away. A thread like this, while seemingly sincere, can quickly turn into a fishing expedition to root out "heretics" who will not follow the prescribed party line and message control on every issue. If the Overton window of "acceptable" Democratic Party and liberal discourse is breached, some people start foaming at the mouth like rabid wolves stalking their prey and the authoritarian voice of the boss and ruling class sensibilities come full bloom very quickly. When people are in deep denial and immersed in subjective personal beliefs as politics, rather than objective reality, any possibility of critical thinking and real discussion leaves the building quickly.
RandomNumbers
(19,080 posts)you sill not be "banished" or "silenced".
Unless you really are a MAGAt and make that clear. If your "truth" has no basis in fact but is just hate, then yeah, it will be bye-bye. If instead you point out actual, supportable facts, and discuss the failure of the Dem party to adequately address the pain caused by those facts - probably you will have no issues.
I have made many posts that walk this line. Republican policies these days are fucking evil, so even where I disagree with the Dem party on an issue, I can readily frame that in "here's why Dems are better anyway, even though they need to get better on this particular thing". If you are sincere in that approach, you should be fine.
Phoenix61
(18,715 posts)People want Super Man not Clark Kent. It really is that simple.
gulliver
(13,744 posts)I think one issue with Dems is that it's hard to recruit wise people to lead. They have better things to do. They don't need the money, and the people they would hope to guide and lead are a mixed bag. Good, solid, caring, hardworking, honest, patriotic, friendly, tolerant people...most of us. Others charmless, foolish, lost, and, unfortunately, (the law of large numbers being what it is) ranging to the threatening and monstrous.
We Dems have been learning a lesson from the Trump victory and the loss of key demographics. The people we lost are not bad people. They're good people who are gettable backable. My greatest fear is that Trump's malfeasance will somehow give the "Queens of Hearts" back some of their sway. They weren't right all along, but the idiocy and nastiness of Trump will let them believe they were and sell others on it. And then we'll get President J.D. Vance.
Midwestern Democrat
(1,029 posts)that will MOST DEFINITELY follow if we manage to win back the House by default in 2026. For the 2028 nomination, I'm only going to consider candidates who truly seem to comprehend the lessons of 2024.
kimbutgar
(26,907 posts)From S.F. he cheated on my sister in law and left her when their kids were pre teens/teenagers. Leaving my sister in law to raise them alone. He was cruel to his kids and used to say when they were 18 they were going to be kicked out of the house. And sadly because those 4 kids craved Daddys love they became magas themselves and think their Dad is the greatest even those he is a scum sob who abandoned his wife and children.
But the guy was a loser and blamed everyone else for his failures. Such a typical repuke characteristic!
customerserviceguy
(25,406 posts)then you quickly pivot over to the trans issue, and then you do it over and over again.
Are you asking why Democratic voters and politicians are so hated, or are you asking why trans people are hated? There are probably different answers to those two questions.
EnergizedLib
(2,933 posts)And why the trans issue might be a bigger dealbreaker to some than raping underage kids.
customerserviceguy
(25,406 posts)that those who hate us, do so for more reasons than just our support of trans people. And yes, the haters are indeed able to blind themselves to whatever their guy has done.
Nimble_Idea
(2,849 posts)but ask how the Florida strategy is working out. after all our "concerns" were duly highlighted and noted.
doc03
(38,860 posts)of wimps that won't fight. How is it Bernies Sanders has the time and money to travel the country
and make speeches and we hear near nothing from the rest.
Metaphorical
(2,596 posts)This is class warfare at its most fundamental, and in order to collapse democracy you need to destroy the party that can be used to rally everyone else. The communist party in Germany in the days leading up to the Third Reich were what we would probably recognize today as social democrats. One of the first things that Hitler did, before he even came to power as Chancellor, was to use his Brown Shirts to attack, harrass, and in many cases kill outright the Communists, even before he began his pogrom against the Jews, and if you look at the rise of most authoritarian governments, eliminating the primary opposition party (especially if they've been in power before) is pretty much standard practice. Remember that a lot of this started with the Southern Strategy, led primarily by the investment class at the time that saw the Democrats as turning against them. They invested HEAVILY in barely surviving seminaries and televangelists then shifted their strategy to controlling the rural airwaves. Johnson was hated by this group almost as much as FDR had been a generation earlier.
Iggo
(49,687 posts)Hey, fellow democrats! Why do we suck? Thanks in advance!
Stupid game, and I aint playin.
EnergizedLib
(2,933 posts)Im asking why people dont like us.
If I thought we sucked, I wouldnt vote straight blue like I do in every election, but something is warped you can do anything, absolutely anything, to this country, any amount of damage is acceptable, as long as youre not a Democrat.
Thats the vibe I get from many.
Skittles
(169,802 posts)to gay folk, brown folk, women, whatever
like LBJ said, give them someone to look down on and they will empty their pockets for you
True Dough
(25,937 posts)24 years of DU intimidation! That's really something. Your leg/foot must be sore!
RANDYWILDMAN
(3,132 posts)there brand is hate, hate doesn't think deeply, hate doesn't care, hate doesn't try to figure out what could help people.
Hate pits us against them and they like that, it's so sad
liberalmediaaddict
(998 posts)They see those as weaknesses.
Plus a lot of Republicans hate democracy and prefer an autocracy led by an authoritarian.