Desecration At Church Leads NYC Pastor To ‘Evict’ Occupy Wall Street

[hack89]

NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) — When the bronze lid of the baptismal font disappeared from the West Park Presbyterian Church on W. 86th Street, Rev. Robert Brashear confronted the nearly 60 Occupy Wall Street protesters who’d been sleeping there.

“I, in my upset, talked about the fact that even in the 1980s when we had a lot of crack addicts etc. in the neighborhood, and even robbing people in the church, that particular religious symbol had never really been disturbed before,” Brashear said.

They agreed to find other places to stay within two weeks, and to find an artisan who can make a replacement for the sacred piece if they don’t find it.

In the first week the group was there, his computer also went missing. The group promised to reimburse him.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/01/22/desecration-at-church-leads-nyc-pastor-to-evict-occupy-wall-street/

Self discipline is important for obvious reasons.

[MH1]

1. maybe they should organize some sort of guard rotation

to make sure stupid shit like this doesn't happen again. With 60 people that should be doable.

[backscatter712]

2. How much do you want to bet it was a cop that committed the thefts?

COINTELPRO lives...

Should we start a pool?

[Zorra]

14. I'm in. $20 says it was a cop. nt

[JSnuffy]

15. Maybe if it was a cop protesting in his off duty hours...

Looks and quacks like a duck... its a duck...

[JSnuffy]

78. There is a lot of good joke material in the statement right there...

Joking aside there is no evidence that it was done by anyone other than the folks occupying the space at the time.

Fun to see how quickly people jump to the "No true OWSer" test.

[zorahopkins]

18. That's What I Think, Too!

Either a cop or some other thugs desiring to defame the 99%.

[snooper2]

27. ROFL, so you automatically trust people who have the same political beliefs as you?

[backscatter712]

55. The activist core of OWS certainly wouldn't do such a thing.

Let's look at people who would have such motives.

Hangers-on such as homeless ex-cons or drug addicts that may have latched onto the movement and set up in the camps? Maybe.

Enemies of the Occupy movement, such as police or government operatives, or corporate-hired provocateurs? They certainly have the motive, and we've already seen plenty of documented examples of activity from these characters. I find the possibility quite likely.

[Leopolds Ghost]

56. Hangers on is sadly more likely, but keep in mind the cops dump such people deliberately on occupy

[AngryAmish]

61. No true scotsman would...

[link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman|

[Dreamer Tatum]

81. +1000000

[snooper2]

69. Is Winona Ryder active with OWS?

[Snake Alchemist]

3. Can't blame him. Why is it always a few bad apples? nt

[Chuuku Davis]

5. One bad apple can spoil it for

A thousand good ones.
And who knows who actually stole it??

[Zoeisright]

4. That's right, a piece of metal is more important than

people standing up to a corrupt system that kills thousands every year.

Good priorities there, Rev. Brashear. Nice way to uphold "Christian values".

[Snake Alchemist]

7. If you had people staying in your house and your TV went missing

would you shrug it off or take action?

[jberryhill]

8. Are you fucking kidding?

He's been providing free shelter to people, and would like not to have his computer and other stuff stolen.

[SpartanDem]

9. Can I move in with you and steal your shit?

[hack89]

10. Respect for people, their property and beliefs is important if OWS wants to grow

pissing off admitted supporters is not how one grows a social movement - especially when you are preaching the superiority of your values over the present system. The system they want to change is supposedly built on theft - it would help if OWS' actions were in stark contrast to that.

[Leopolds Ghost]

42. "The system they want to change is built on theft-it'd help if OWS actions were in contrast to that"

^^ This.

[emilyg]

24. So you wouldn't mind

i a house guest stole from you?

[LanternWaste]

46. two wholly separate things....

I don't think that the removing a religious icon in any way helps deny "a corrupt system that kills thousands every year....". That they are indeed, two wholly separate things, neither predicated on the other.

Although I'm sure if I read this thread to its bitter end, someone will rationalize that very thing... nice way to uphold "progressive values".

[KansDem]

6. Could be a "trouble maker" sent in by the One Percenters to make OWS look bad...

Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker is on record as wanting to do this to disgrace the unions...

[Hugabear]

12. This ^^^^

I'd be willing to bet that it was an outside agitator

[backscatter712]

21. Like I said above, probably an undercover cop.

Definitely a provocateur.

COINTELPRO lives.

[T S Justly]

11. Oh for gods sake, give that man of god back his playthings ... (nt) (nr)

[Snake Alchemist]

13. I tell that to all the victims of burglary and muggings.

Get over it, they're only possessions.

[Liberal_Dog]

22. So, These Items Have "Went Missing"

and the Rev apparently does not call the police, but instead runs to the media?

Hmmmmm......

[hack89]

23. No - he went to OWS and gave them 24 hours to come up with a solution

and he still is allowing them to stay for 2 weeks until they find a new home.

Now - if he was a real jerk, he could have called the cops AND kicked them out immediately.

Notice OWS is not vigorously denying the charges?

[Liberal_Dog]

28. Notice That They Didn't Admit To The Charges Either?

But since you hate Occupy so much, that means nothing to you.

[Leopolds Ghost]

37. I don't hate Occupy, I'm (marginally) involved with Occupy

And let me tell you, according to my friends who are campers, the problem with any movement is when it gets big enough to start attracting gypsies and self-entitled shits who ruin efforts for everyone else. Occupy managed to get quite a head start before attracting the trolls. Now we have to figure out a way to deal with them. Do you know what percentage of campers at my local Occupy are opportunists or folks who are dealing with mental disability? vs. folks who explicitly know what they are getting into and what it is about? It is a sadly high number. You can actually spend time and suss out the people who are obviously only there to case the joint. And of course among the non-campers is a sadly high number of professional activists who attempt to run every meeting. The advantage about Occupy is that the movement has put together a set of common practices for decentralized organizing in the past ten years that may be able to help sort through these issues.

[T S Justly]

40. Is your sniping marginal, too?

[Leopolds Ghost]

43. I'm sure you're in the trenches every day. I'm just reporting what

My friends who are campers TELL me about the situation there.

And going off my personal experience volunteering post-Katrina
in a live-in, squatting environment. The fact is that gypsies and
thieves are a huge problem. The average person is not educated
enough about the ISSUES to realize that petty thievery is not the
way to organize nonviolent resistance. And some people are just
in it for selfish reasons. This has always been true.

I'm sure you're doing Jail solidarity and the woiks... 9_9

[T S Justly]

48. Lol! A purloined vcr and a fetishist relic does not make a huge problem for anybody ...

And, Occupy will continue and grow. It does, however, provide a small opportunity for people to express outrage
at ... Gypsies? Lol!

[Leopolds Ghost]

57. If you don't know what gypsies are then I guess you aren't out there camping.

Gypsies = movement / street term for crusty punks, trustafarian drifters with no particular politics who float from squat to squat.

"The More You Know"...

As for stealing a computer and a "fetishist relic" as you put it, can I come in your house and steal your shit? I am sure your mother's ashes (or whatever you have in your residence that you treasure) is of no "objective" value to anypony but you, so really, who are you to say I can't shit all over it?

[T S Justly]

67. You don't need to "steal my shit", lol, it's yours when I'm finished with it ...

Or, when I'm not using it. That includes all my fetishist relics, lol. You're over-thinking or over-worrying
the effects petty crime has on Occupy. The fadda will get some new shit and other Occupy "outrages"
will keep the self-righteous "occupied", lol.

[Leopolds Ghost]

79. It's a concern when you got a group that small and someone steals something that big

Off of the person who is putting them up, even if it weren't a church. Remember, Occupy is a situationalist protest in a nutshell... they're occupying a space. So that means you have to be mindful of the impact one is having.

[backscatter712]

68. I'm sure the Roma will appreciate your clarification. n/t

[Leopolds Ghost]

80. Hmm, I hope you didn't think I was referring to actual Gypsies, or something approximating them

but considering there are hardly any in the US, I was hoping my meaning was clear...

"gypsies" here refers purely to their tendency to flit around from place to place.

[Leopolds Ghost]

59. BTW I just got done criticizing another poster for claiming Ron Paul-ites "killed OWS".

Yeah, it was a mystifying remark. So I guess you got me coming and going.

[SpartanDem]

64. Wow!! Way to respect other people's property

I get it you really support OWS, but stop acting like stupid, litte tea partier, denying the very obvious fact this was wrong.

[hack89]

39. So why are they going to replace the lid and the laptop?

as a minimum, it implies that OWS members could be responsible for the thefts.

[T S Justly]

60. An offer to replace what went missing is not an implication of anything ...

Other than Occupy's willingness to take responsibility for events under their watch. But, it's nice to
see the trial and conviction take place before an impartial investigation is completed.

[onenote]

62. you've certainly been nothing but impartial on this thread

[backscatter712]

66. Or maybe the decent core activists see the value of maintaining goodwill...

with those kind enough to open their doors to them.

You're looking at everything related to Occupy with the lens of "Lets look for something that proves they're bad!"

I know, you're just here to express your concern...

[hack89]

71. I am more concerned with the fringe activists

that OWS has attracted. They need to actually start doing things to counter some of this negative press.

[pintobean]

26. Hmmmmm......

Why would you assume this?

[Liberal_Dog]

29. "Police Are Currently Investigating"

Didn't see any such line in the article.

[pintobean]

31. Lol. Have you ever called the police

in a large city, over a petty crime? You're lucky if they take a report, just to document the missing property. That's if they show up. There is no investigation.

[Liberal_Dog]

36. Actually, Yes I Have

And also over the years, I have read plenty of news about stuff being stolen form churches.

Every one of those reports mentioned a police investigation was being done.

Except for this one.

[pintobean]

38. Uh-huh

[backscatter712]

70. Indeed. After all the abuses inflicted upon OWS, I wouldn't call them either.

No matter what kind of problems you have, you can always make things worse by getting the police involved.

[Broderick]

25. The conspiracy angle

runs thick here on this thread. It's like a child getting in trouble at school and the parents claiming it can't be their kid.

[richmwill]

30. I agree with you 100%

It's exactly like parents telling the principal "My son's a good boy, there's no way he did this". And some on this thread apparently would tell the principal "So what if he stole your wallet? It's just a possession to you- and no, we are NOT going to hurt his feelings by making him give it back to you! Now, apologize to my poor son..."

[Liberal_Dog]

32. It's Not About Conspiracy

It is about lack of evidence.

[Broderick]

33. Come on.......

A cop did it?


LMAO

[backscatter712]

52. It's not unprecedented, or even uncommon.

Google COINTELPRO and do some reading, then come back and let us know what you find...

I hate to break your childlike innocence, but there are a lot of dishonest, unscrupulous, and sociopathic police officers out there, and many of them get promoted because we have a lot of dishonest, unscrupulous, and sociopathic politicians, CEOs and otherwise powerful people who want people willing to get their hands dirty.

[Broderick]

63. So they went into a church in the middle of the night

Stole something so the sleeping OWS folks would get blamed?

Did they take the computer too.

I think it's merely a bad seed in the mix, but the group ought police itself. That makes more sense to me. It was kind of the church to take them in.

[backscatter712]

77. Nobody here (except when creating strawmen) is saying the cops absolutely did it.

I am saying that the odds of them being responsible are higher than most people think.

Also, given old history, like the story of COINTELPRO, other stories of police and professional operatives being caught acting as provocateurs, instigating violence, abusing protesters and using dirty tricks including burglaries, I'm just saying that anyone who says this absolutely isn't a police or corporate dirty trick is a fool.

It very well may be a hanger-on, say a homeless ex-con. But don't discount Nixon-style conspiracy. Those conspiracies sometimes are real.

[frylock]

44. no shortage of haters on this thread looking to smear the entire movement..

the bias swings both ways.

[Leopolds Ghost]

47. Yep. But we can't allow shit like this to tarnish OWS reputation.

Got to man up / woman up and be willing to a accept responsibility (metaphorically speaking) when something like this happens.

In my local occupy, the vets squad was in charge of security until they left.

[frylock]

49. full agreement

[backscatter712]

54. Me too.

The Occupiers have already worked to mend bridges with the church in this case, offering to replace the stolen goods and make repairs as necessary.

But you've got to wonder who would have the motive to do shit like this.

Occupiers themselves? The activists themselves wouldn't do such a thing.

Hangers-on, such as drug-addicts, homeless and ex-cons who may have latched on to the movement? Maybe.

Police operatives, corporate provocateurs or other enemies seeking to discredit Occupy? I find this possibility not only possible, but quite likely.

[Broderick]

65. Hangers on most likely in my humble opinion

Someone needed a fix. Metal has value. That sort of thing. OWS doesn't need this shit, and they need to be watchful for hanger on's and watch out for each other. I am glad they are working to mend the fence with the church. I would be frustrated if I let folks in to help support and they steal.

[T S Justly]

34. Desecration?

Evicting Occupy is the real desecration.

[Leopolds Ghost]

35. No, this is the problem with people in the movement who hate religion.

They are anti-99% because they are full of resentment towards others and causing divisiveness from within.

[SpartanDem]

41. Every occupy has delt with the attraction of a few shady charaters

what's more likely that of one them did this or it was aplot by police to discredit the movement?

[backscatter712]

74. Police provocateurs aren't shady? n/t

[frylock]

45. the member of ows that stole these items is likely to be a democrat as well..

so don't forget to broadbrush smear all democrats while engaging in your two-minute hate of those dirty hippy OWS protestors, people.

[hack89]

50. I thought OWS was non-partisan. nt

[frylock]

72. i know registered dems who are involved with OWS

[backscatter712]

73. OWS itself is non-partisan and pretty eclectic.

I've seen progressives, Democrats, anarchists, socialists, even Republicans and Tea-partiers at Occupy events.

And that's what really scares the shit out of the psychopathic 1% - that we'll quit buying into their corporate media spin, quit attacking each other, come together and come after them.

[frylock]

76. yep, people from all walks..

and i agree with you that it scares the hell outta the 1%.

[Leopolds Ghost]

58. Even worse.

[CakeGrrl]

75. This just in...

Some OWS-ers are flawed, destructive, and careless as some humans can be.

The funny part is those on this thread coming up with conspiracy theories to exonerate their behavior.