Re: Recount?

[pbmus]

### Election Abnormalities in Rockland County, New York (2024)

Following up on the recent developments in Rockland County elections, the primary focus of reported "abnormalities" centers on a lawsuit challenging the certified results of the November 2024 general election for the presidential and U.S. Senate races. Filed in December 2024 by SMART Legislation (the advocacy arm of the nonpartisan watchdog group SMART Elections), along with independent Senate candidate Diane Sare and two local voters, the case alleges discrepancies in vote counts and statistical anomalies. The plaintiffs seek a full, public hand recount of all ballots cast, regardless of method (Election Day, early voting, or mail-in). Below is a breakdown of the key claims, evidence, counterarguments, and current status as of October 1, 2025.

#### Key Alleged Abnormalities
The lawsuit highlights two main categories of issues, supported by affidavits, statistical analysis, and vote data comparisons:

1. **Under-Counted Votes for Senate Candidate Diane Sare**:
- Multiple voters submitted sworn affidavits claiming they voted for Sare (an independent running on the LaRouche party line), but the Rockland County Board of Elections certified fewer votes than reported.
- Examples from specific districts:
- District 62: Five voters affirmed voting for Sare; only three were counted (40% shortfall).
- Similar discrepancies in other districts, totaling dozens of alleged missing votes.
- This is presented as direct evidence of miscounting, potentially affecting local outcomes though not the statewide Senate race.

2. **Statistical Anomalies in Presidential Vote Patterns**:
- **Vote Drop-Off Disparities**: In Rockland County, Democratic presidential candidate Kamala Harris received 23% fewer votes than Democratic Senate candidate Kirsten Gillibrand—a "negative drop-off" suggesting underperformance or missing votes. Conversely, Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump outperformed his Senate running mate Mike Sapraicone by 23%, which the plaintiffs call unusual.
- **Zero Votes in Democratic-Leaning Districts**: In multiple precincts (e.g., in Ramapo Town, District 35, covering a Hasidic Jewish community), Harris received zero presidential votes despite hundreds voting for Gillibrand in the Senate race. Similar patterns appeared in four of Rockland's five towns.
- **Comparison to 2020**: A statistical analysis by Max Bonamente, a physics and astronomy professor at the University of Alabama in Huntsville, concluded these results were "statistically highly unlikely" when benchmarked against 2020 turnout and patterns. Bonamente noted the data would require "extreme sociological or political causes" for explanation and called for verification.

These claims are framed as potential violations of voters' constitutional rights, with plaintiffs arguing they undermine election integrity. Discovery requests include voting machine software/firmware details, modem/Wi-Fi/cellular connections, use of technologies like Starlink Direct-to-Cell or BallotProof, and any reported irregularities.

#### Counterarguments and Explanations
The Rockland County Board of Elections has denied the allegations, calling them "baseless" and seeking dismissal. They state a thorough review found no fraud, hacking, or irregularities. Election experts and fact-checkers largely attribute the patterns to legitimate factors:

- **Bloc Voting in Hasidic Communities**: Rockland County has one of the largest Hasidic Jewish populations in the U.S. (particularly in Ramapo). These communities often vote en bloc for candidates aligned with their interests, such as Gillibrand (seen as supportive on issues like Israel and social services) but against Harris due to perceptions of her stance on Israel/Palestine. Zero Harris votes in District 35 also occurred for Joe Biden in 2020, per Politifact analysis—indicating consistent behavior, not fraud.
- **Statistical Context**: Experts like Costas Panagopoulos (Northeastern University political science professor) note that anomalies can stem from errors or demographics, not malice. Verified Voting's election technology expert dismissed broader conspiracy theories (e.g., involving Starlink or UPS devices) as misinterpretations of unrelated tech announcements.
- **No Outcome Impact**: Even if discrepancies exist, they involve a small number of votes in a solidly Democratic county (Harris won Rockland by ~10 points in 2024, mirroring Biden's 2020 margin). New York certified its results without issue, and Congress confirmed Trump's national win.

A July 2025 YouGov poll showed 41% of self-reported Harris voters nationwide doubted Trump's legitimate win, with this case amplifying left-leaning skepticism—though experts emphasize it doesn't indicate widespread fraud.

#### Current Status (as of October 1, 2025)
- **Court Proceedings**: In May 2025, New York Supreme Court Justice Rachel Tanguay ruled the claims serious enough to advance to discovery, rejecting an early dismissal bid. By June, plaintiffs submitted 15 pages of document requests and interrogatories to the Board of Elections.
- **Recent Delays**: A September 22, 2025, hearing was postponed after the Board filed a renewed motion to dismiss, with plaintiffs responding. The motion ruling is now slated for November 11, 2025, potentially extending the case into 2026. Trial, if it proceeds, is eyed for early 2026.
- **Public Discussion**: On X (formerly Twitter), the case has sparked debate, with users like @SMART_elections sharing updates and videos explaining the judge's rulings.
36
Skeptics highlight bloc voting as the explanation,
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while advocates push for awareness of the "rigging" narrative.
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No recount has occurred yet.

#### Broader Implications
This is the first 2024 election challenge to reach discovery in New York, potentially setting a precedent for transparency (e.g., machine audits). However, it won't alter certified results. For context, Rockland's Board of Elections maintains an A+ rating for administration and urges reporting suspicious calls (e.g., robocalls influencing votes). If irregularities are confirmed, it could lead to procedural fixes, but experts stress U.S. elections' robustness overall.

For official results, visit the [Rockland County Board of Elections](https://www.rocklandcountyny.gov/departments/board-of-elections). If you have specifics (e.g., a district or related event), I can dig deeper!


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There are several states where abnormal voting behavior happened and there are ongoing investigations

[Silent Type]

1. When will election deniers accept losing?

[H2O Man]

2. Right.

It is as useless as arguing about the 2000 election now. We need people to be here, now.

[fujiyamasan]

3. That's not happening

This is a waste of time.

New Jersey and Virginia governor races are already having early voting.

Midterm elections (and closer yet primaries) are around the corner.

And finally, I’m sorry but Trump won in 2024. I don’t like it anymore than you do, but he did win and the party has to move forward.

[GreenWave]

4. But because Trump kicked and screamed fraud for 4 years he won the pity vote.