What to do if you see a kidnapping ....

[ihaveaquestion]

— Kevin (@kevinc13.bsky.social) 2025-11-01T16:44:55.161Z

[spooky3]

1. I don't think it's always safe for a bystander to ask ICE etc. people

for ID. Seems bystanders can take the other steps and get help.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

2. One could tell 911 "I was afraid to confront them and couldn't ask for ID" and do the rest. . . . nt

[spooky3]

3. Yes nt

[stopdiggin]

7. and not sure if they are 'required' to provide ID to anyone (and everyone?)

passing by on the sidewalk. Further, it would seem that these 'agents' have been give full authority (and approval?) to go incognito - without markings or identification - by superiors and higher authority. If that standard is to be overturned, it would need to happen in the courts or halls of congress. But it isn't going to happen on the street.

Record. Look for helpful detail - make, model, license, type of uniform and equipment. Ask questions - (if you're bold, and feel safe in doing so).
But, using caution (and a decent distance). Your right to 'intervene' or 'interaction' (as a witness/observer) is very limited - and could very well land you with charges and arrest yourself.

[Iggo]

10. They're not. But the point, for the purposes of the 911 call, is that they didn't,....

…and so it was impossible to know if they were good guys or bad guys.

[brakester]

32. Google this court case.

Great Judge!!!

"AI OVERVIEW
Federal judge orders ICE agents to wear body cameras in ...
The court case is an ongoing matter involving U.S. District Judge Sara Ellis in Chicago, who has ordered federal immigration agents to wear body cameras and visible identification. This order, in effect during the "Operation Midway Blitz," came after the judge reviewed video footage of immigration enforcement clashes in Chicago, particularly the use of tear gas during interactions with protesters and residents. The order aims to document interactions, ensure compliance with previous orders about warnings before using force, and promote transparency.
Court Case: While not a single finalized lawsuit, it refers to a series of hearings and a recent court order issued by U.S. District Judge Sara Ellis."

[Polybius]

4. Nothing

Just being honest.

[Jilly_in_VA]

5. Also record it on your phone for evidence.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

6. Says who? This is not what refugee/immigrant orgs recommend

[stopdiggin]

8. which part do they contravene ?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

12. calling cops

[stopdiggin]

13. I think that's fairly questionable too

911 (in most jurisdictions) has plenty on their hands .... Not sure if tying their hands - is doing anything to help

[questionseverything]

15. There's always a non emergency number, then it's still on record, the police will come and investigate

[WhiskeyGrinder]

19. Better to consult with your local immigrant org and see if they have a hotline for rapid response teams

[Cirsium]

35. There's another reason

The cops are dangerous, too.

[stopdiggin]

38. hmmmm?

So, if your child has just been viciously assaulted ... Probably better to call the Fraternal Order of Wombats ...

K. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[Cirsium]

42. Get serious

In many neighborhoods we are on our own and calling the police can be very dangerous, depending upon who and where you are.

If that is not your reality, then lucky you.

[stopdiggin]

43. competely serious. If you DON'T call the police (after something like a serious assault)

then that is not only sad - but also seriously misguided.
My sympathies ...

[Cirsium]

44. not really

All of the serious assaults i have witnessed have been committed by the police. That possibility seems to be outside of your experience.

[ancianita]

34. In Florida the governor has officially mandated all LEO's to help ICE, on penalty of job loss.

That kind of mandate to help ICE is going on across a number of red states where state troopers, etc., are under the governors' control.

[Cirsium]

37. Game wardens

Here we have seen game wardens helping ICE, as well as the local sheriff department. That was going on long before Trump.

[Ruby the Liberal]

30. What are they recommending?

We have had several ICE reports here, so at No Kings, we walked around looking to see if they were prowling (they weren't). Our plan was to stay within eye sight of them so that we (along with a few thousand friends) could film any dustups, but had no idea what to do to actually help.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

31. contact your local immigrant/refugee org; they'll have guidance

[Tetrachloride]

9. i ask myself what would Ben-hur do

[uponit7771]

11. ***THIS !!!*** Is what we need from democratic party leadership

[littlemissmartypants]

14. Is this for real? On who's advice is this recommended? I'm dubious of random

SoMe memes and sound bytes without any attribution or verified references. 🤔

[ShazzieB]

16. Yeah, I'm skeptical about this kind of stuff, too.

Taking advice without knowing who's giving it (or their qualifications for doing so) sounds very risky to me. Especially when dealing with an entity as barbaric and unscrupulous as ICE.

[littlemissmartypants]

18. It's a "no go" for me. I totally understand your points, SB. I'd like to live to fight another day. ❤️

[bronxiteforever]

17. Kick and recommend

[ihaveaquestion]

20. Wow! I never thought there were so many, let's say umm, "risk averse," people on DU.

I'm literally aghast at the responses to this post.

Are people really willing to allow their fellow human beings to be abducted on the street by unidentified masked thugs?

Are you really not concerned that bad actors are impersonating federal agents?

What has happened to people that they are ready to be so blasé about our freedoms and rights?

[stopdiggin]

22. fighting with LE very rarely leads to a positive outcome. in good conscience I cannot recommend ...

what I see on this string - is various voices questioning, a) the authorship of this 'advice' - and b) the veracity of it's content.
(and almost nothing of, "I don't particularly care .." )

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[ihaveaquestion]

23. There is nothing about "fighting LE" in the post. Only reporting to verified LE an illegal action by

UNIDENTIFIED individuals who are ASSAULTING others without a warrant... to all appearances this is KIDNAPPING!!!!!!

[stopdiggin]

24. and yet we feel the need for a 'scold' on responses rendered ...

- - - - - - - - - - -

[WhiskeyGrinder]

25. I'm not risk averse. I'm averse to following random-ass instructions like this one.

Are people really willing to allow their fellow human beings to be abducted on the street by unidentified masked thugs?

IME, cops are there to keep the community out of the way while ICE brutalizes community members. How is that helpful?

What has happened to people that they are ready to be so blasé about our freedoms and rights?

Relying on cops to protect freedoms and rights is a fool's game and one that I will not play.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

27. This is a very horrific & confusing situation

we're experiencing in many of our communities. One thing I've read is that, despite common belief, cops actually have no legal duty to protect. That's something we all should have worked hard to change before now. But we can only do as much as we can do.

DU, overall, disappoints me in the way it gives us a safe, false sense of doing something but little supported, sourced info on what we can do to improve the political situation. Little call to action.

Look at the DU Activist Headquarters group. Practically unvisited. Seems it might be helpful for it to be elevated to top-level status, just as prominent as General Discussion.

[calimary]

46. That'd make it easier to find.

[Joinfortmill]

21. Thanks

[Wonder Why]

26. I wouldn't say anything about what they claimed but just say armed men attacked a person and kidnapped them.

[duckworth969]

28. Recording the incident and calling 911

while not without some risk, given the temperament of individual agents, is a perfectly reasonable and humane response to witnessing someone being abducted against their will by armed masked assailants with no readily visible id.

[ret5hd]

29. An inconvenience to me...

(arrest, detention, questioning, etc)

may prevent a SERIOUSLY life-damaging event to another.

i realize i am retired, have no real obligations etc to others (children etc) and others may be in complete different circumstances.

but i have and would in the future REALLY enjoy telling tyrants to fuck off.

[nilram]

33. Record it while asking the victim their name and a phone number to call to notify others.

[ancianita]

36. Federal law enforcement in cooperation with state law enforcement is only kidnapping if courts & law

define it. It's not defined by what the public thinks. I've also been told by others that any public attempt to stop LEO's of FL will be cause for arrest for obstruction of justice.

Is it kidnapping in spirit? Probably.

Here's how the red state of Florida handles ICE:

Mandatory Cooperation:
A law passed in a 2025 special legislative session requires all law enforcement agencies to have agreements or policies in place to assist with federal immigration enforcement upon request.

287(g) Program:
All 67 county jails in Florida are required to have a written agrement with ICE under the 287(g) program. This program trains and deputizes local officers and correctional officers to perform specific immigration enforcement functions, such as identifying and processing for deportation individuals in their custody who are in the country illegally.

Street-level Enforcement:
Beyond jails, agreements have been signed allowing state agencies like the Florida Highway Patrol, Florida Department of Law Enforcement (FDLE), and Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) to perform street-level immigration enforcement duties, including interrogation and arrest of individuals without legal status.

Penalties for Non-compliance:
County or municipal officials who knowingly or willfully refuse to comply with immigration detainers face fines of up to $5,000 and potential suspension from office.

DeepMind AI is correct, because I fact checked it on the www.flgov.com website

[ihaveaquestion]

39. Witnesses to these incidents can't be expected to judge whether they are valid arrests or a kidnapping.

If it appears to be extra-judicial, then reporting it cannot be a problem and IMO is an obligation for everyone. It's not a crime to report an apparent crime, is it?

[ancianita]

40. Witnesses can record & report it as anything they want to call it, for the little to no good that will do in red states

It's better to record videos, snap photos and then make calls to the
-- ACLU, or
-- Legal Services Corporation (LSC), which funds local legal aid offices. Or call non-profits like
-- the NAACP Legal Defense Fund.

-- Or call LawHelp.org to find free legal help in their community.

Or call local & national news services, if known. If not known, try doing it in this order:
-- Northwestern provides a nationwide interactive map by state and county. Then, the caller can check
-- Google Maps for names locations, phone numbers, etc.. Then call those local news to see if they take text photos, videos, etc.

[ancianita]

41. Of course not. But witnesses can also be "seen" by LEO's as obstructing their work. So be aware.

Also, what makes you think anything within US borders is "extrajudicial"?? There's no such thing, really. Extra-- means outside the legal boundaries of some judiciary boundaries. "Extrajudicial" usually means killings or crimes done by a country's state outside that country's borders.

Do you even know how to or where to "report the crime" in a red state?
Would you have proof that a crime was committed? Is there a victim with a name? A perpetrator with a van with a license plate?

What could you report beyond "I just witnessed someone being kidnapped" and an address.

[Ilikepurple]

45. "Extrajudicial" like most words has various meanings and is a living word

Not many words can be definitively defined by a simple sentence. Extrajudicial in its most general sense means outside normal or required judicial process. It is often used in journalism in conjunction with killings, but not confined to outside a state’s jurisdiction or boundaries. Legally, it is just something that occurred outside or without authorization of the judicial system, e.g, without due process, in violation of legal or constitutional rights. I imagine, with ICE’s antics, the word will gain wider use without sacrificing any of its etymological roots. I agree with your other points, especially in your previous post.

[calimary]

47. Definitely a keeper.