What is Bad About Obama

[BeFree]

He is too comfortable being the Emperor of American Empire.

He has not put enough banksters in jail. Actually none? While millions of low-level alleged criminals are in jail.

He has not done anything about global climate change.

America is still headed over the cliff.

It is no wonder intelligent progressives are hammering Obama every chance they get. Indeed, if we all joined in and quit brown-nosing the president, Obama would be forced to be more progressive.

[mdmc]

1. He has a lot of good to his credit too

Like he will be better then Romney..

[MichiganVote]

2. And the tea baggers believe the same about their people. What does this get us really?

[girl gone mad]

49. Are they wrong about that?

[MichiganVote]

56. They are wrong not to discriminate and tease out the reality of our corporate government

and its influence on every politician and civil servant throughout every level of our systems.

[unkachuck]

58. "What does this get us really?"

....two parties owned and operated by corporations and the rich?

[JackRiddler]

84. Does the truth matter, or only what each of us believes?

[rhett o rick]

3. Obama made a decision early on that he could forsake the progressive vote in order to woo the

conservative vote. All his close appointees are conservatives, Jeff Immelt. Hello. His strategy is working. There really is only one major party now, the Centrist Party. The republicon party is in shambles.

[BeFree]

7. One Party - AKA, Big Money party. AKA....

American Empire party.

To hell with the little guy party. Let them eat cake party. Give them just enough to stfu party. It's working, eh? Just look at all those here standing with him.

[Bill O-Rights]

4. As with virtually everything, it could be worse.

Way worse.

[rhett o rick]

5. I guess the question is whether we get there quickly or less quickly. nm

[riverbendviewgal]

6. I will trade you Obama

for Stephen Harper....Most Canadians would.

Harper is a Bush boy.....a Bush mini me.....and you want that instead of Obama....great...You can have Harper.

[BeFree]

9. Wrong

I want the Obama that talked big in 2008.

Do you have any idea how many Americans are turned off now compared to 2008?

[Sheepshank]

48. Well.....BeFree, that is one

.....not as many as you'd like to hope.

Most understand the alternatives that are being plied to the public. While here you are trying to do your dailiy deed to degrade what one person the Dems have. What a failure.

[madokie]

54. The only place I see or hear people being turned off is here

and only a few here at that

[i_sometimes]

59. You need to get out more.

Here in very blue and progressive Oregon, many are holding their noses but not their tongues.

[Bobbie Jo]

101. Looks like you'll have more

time to "get out more," yourself.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=278739

Yep...fits right in alright.

[JackRiddler]

85. Why do you make false accusations about what the OP "wants"?

I don't see the OP advocating Bush or Harper over Obama. I'd have to be very insecure and attached to binary thinking to think that.

[ecstatic]

8. People have gone to jail

Please get your facts straight.

[BeFree]

10. Yep

Millions of small time pot smokers have gone to jail.

While millionaire banksters got 'get-out-of-jail-free' cards.

[EFerrari]

41. Don't forget the whistleblowers. n/t

[BeFree]

46. yes, well

One could go on and on, couldn't one?

Obama will get my vote... Duh.

But I am not one to shirk the truth and the facts. I don't have to hide my head in the sand in order to support Obama. Some others may need to their support is so fragile?

[Sheepshank]

50. "Millions of small time pot smokers have gone to jail. "

Under Obama...really millions?

Hyperbole is useless as an argument, and actaully makes the user of the hyperbole seem...uninfomed and plying lies.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

62. FBI statistics show 11,469,120 arrests for a recent 15 year period = millions.

The number of arrests for marijuana-related arrests in 2009 is given as 858,408 and for 2010 as 853,839 = over a million during the Obama Administration's first two years.

See the tables in the FBI Uniform Crime Reports as summarized:
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Marijuana#Share

[Sheepshank]

71. This thread is about Obama

who's been in for less than 4 years....your stats are a non sequator as is the OP. Obama has NOT been responsible for the cracked up, jacked up hyperbolic numbers in the OP and your assistance of the OP is laughable.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

73. While Obama has been in office, millionaire banksters got 'get-out-of-jail-free' cards. It's been

in the news. This has been a continuation of the Bush policies. When TARP was passed, Bush got to distribute $350 billion while another $350 billion was reserved for Obama so that he could distribute it after taking office.

In contrast, small-time pot smokers have been arrested, prosecuted, and sent to jail or prison. In response to Yep's post which pointed to the irony of this and said "Millions of small time pot smokers have gone to jail," you've ignored the irony and sought to trivialize the disparate treatment by limiting your consideration of the pot prosecutions and incarcerations that have only occurred on Obama's watch. Even so, the FBI statistics which you reject, show that there have been more than a million pot-related prosecutions after he took office.

It is, however, a fact that his Administration has chosen to prosecute those involved with pot as opposed to the super-rich banksters. The banksters have been given de facto immunity, and governmental funds, while pot users have been criminalized.

[Sheepshank]

82. FAIL

moving the goal posts because your first response was refuted is quite transparent.

If you want to start a new and separate argument be prepared to have that shot down too. You offer no supporting evidence and your decide to ignore readily available information that may have caused you to think twice before shooting off and making unsubstantiated and easily refuted statements.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

87. I'm now selecting the ignore button. Bye.

[Sheepshank]

92. bwahh haa haa

a newbie doesn't like being told to provide proof. Sticks his fingers and sing laa laa laa

[rhett o rick]

64. This administration has spent more money to prosecute food stamp fraud

than Wall Street fraud. Maybe Jeff Immelt put the word in his ear.

[Sheepshank]

83. really? where did you read that? n/t

[rhett o rick]

96. I believe it was the Daily Show or Maddow. nm

[JackRiddler]

99. Here's the Washington Post on announcement of increased food stamp investigations...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/post/obama-administration-targeting-food-stamp-fraud-as-program-reaches-record-highs/2011/12/05/gIQAfdM3XO_blog.html

This came last June, around the same time Holder said there wouldn't be major AG investigations of the banks for the mortgage stuff.

Haven't seen dollar figures on either, and wonder how well they can be disaggregated, but it prompted lots of stories (justified, I believe) about how the administration was going after food stamp fraud (estimated at 1 percent of the total food stamp program) and not Wall Street fraud.

http://www.propublica.org/article/why-no-financial-crisis-prosecutions-official-says-its-just-too-hard

[Sheepshank]

103. Issues still remain

that bankers legally exploited loopholes. Tough to prosecute anyone based on personal ethics or a lack thereof.

And while there are some mega million $ prosecutions on financial fraud...and in the case of a bankster/hedge fund criminal, those investigation tend to lead to other participants, those investigations take a very long time and require much more expertise by the investigators vs. welfare fraud, where those investigations can be conducted and case files put together by rank and file staff. So to me it makes sense that there are fewer bankers prosecuted vs wefare fraud.

http://www.propublica.org/article/why-no-financial-crisis-prosecutions-official-says-its-just-too-hard/single

Why’s that? Well, according to a now-departed Justice Department official who used to be in charge of investigating such matters, the Justice Department has decided that holding top Wall Street executives criminally accountable is too difficult a task [5].

David Cardona, who recently left the FBI for a job at the Securities and Exchange Commission, told the Wall Street Journal that bringing financial wrongdoing to account is “better left to regulators,” who can bring civil cases. Civil cases, of course, can produce penalties from the banks -- as well as promises to be on better behavior [6] -- but don’t put any executives behind bars. Here’s the Journal:

And while there are some mega million $ prosecutions on financial fraud...and in the case of a bankster/hedge fund criminal, those investigation tend to lead to other participants, those investigations takes a very long time and require much more expertise by the investigators vs. welfare fraud, where those investigations can be conducted and case files put together by rank and file staff.

Comparing apples to oranges imho...and it just isn't comparable.

http://www.justice.gov/usao/ct/Press2011/20111220-1.html

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/hedge-fund-manager-rajaratnam-guilty-insider-trading-trial/story?id=13579823

http://www.shipmangoodwin.com/insider_trading_12012

I personally do wish that there were more prosecutions, but to attempt to compare those numbers as a one to one correlation of inequity is just plain silly.

[JackRiddler]

106. The banksters absolutely committed actionable crimes.

We don't need to go too far with the comparison between investigating alleged food stamp fraud and investigating the Wall Street plunder that plunged the entire planet into a continuing global depression, with literally billions of victims. It's a good to raise as an attention grabbing political point that happens to speak to a greater truth, and in some ways as you say it's also apples and oranges.

So let's stick to debunking the ridiculous myth that banksters are somehow impossible to catch or made sure to legalize all their prospective crimes by changing the laws in advance. (In tonight's speech even Obama made a turn away from this myth, by the way.)

Fraud and forgery are crimes. Both were committed on an epic scale...

...in the MERS system: Many thousands of mortgage transfer forgeries known to have been committed, indications that it runs into the millions. Forgieries are absolutely actionable and could in fact invalidate millions of default claims therefore the subject of the outrageous immunity deal the feds are trying to work out with the 50 states).

...by the predatory lenders who opened up the credit spigots for borrowers they knew would default; every witting acceptance of a false loan application is potentially actionable.

...by the paid academic and media stooges of the Wall Street complex who devised models and promoted hype they knew were based on imaginary premises but encouraged people to invest in the lie of perpetual growth in housing prices (a fraud, but here you'd be right to say not actionably criminal - a pity since Cramer and his fancier counterparts at the Ivies have it coming).

...by the market makers who violated fiduciary responsibility to their clients by devising and selling instruments they knew would fail, in some cases were designed to fail - and even betting against them. Actionable, as evidenced by the outrageous immunity deals the SEC has offered in several cases, allowing the scam artists to skate with most of their profits in exchange for paying a small cut in fines and no admission of guilt. Judge Rakoff just rejected one of these.

...by the ratings agencies who took the payoffs and didn't do due diligence before delivering false verdicts on these instruments, without which investors like pension funds could not have been lured into the trap (fraud in commercial speech, and they should be the first entities to be seized and interrogated in unravelling the fraud, being no better than Arthur Andersen)

...by the derivatives sellers and speculators who bet on the whole system to burn down and then lit the match (the biggest fraud of all: setting up a system allowng unlimited and unpayable bets running into the hundreds of trillions, but this one they made sure to make legal beforehand).

The beautiful moment at the start of Inside Job: Nouriel Roubini is asked, "Why do you think there weren't more vigorous investigations into financial frauds?" His marvelously deadpan answer: "Because then they would find the culprits."

THOUSANDS of executives were prosecuted during the S&L frauds of the 1980s. They were caught because of investigations. The whole trick is NOT to investigate, therefore not to discover perpetrators, and for the SEC to offer get-out-of-jail-free immunity deals for peanuts.

By the way, a more interesting comparison than food stamp fraud is the Nixon-to-Obama "war on drugs." If it's about drugs, then evidence that a crime has been committed (the presence of drugs) can sometimes be enough to summarily arrest everyone within smelling distance, seize property and sell it before trial. The government often doesn't wonder about states of mind or intents to commit or determining who exactly to pin as the mastermind. They just fuck everyone. Too bad Goldman Sachs merely plundered tens of billions of dollars by some of the most evil scams imaginable, if only they'd kept half a million dollars worth of cocaine in the executive suite the government would have found a reason to shut the criminal organization down.

We haven't even gotten into RICO, but same deal there. It's as Bertolt Brecht asked: Which is the bigger crime, robbing a bank or owning one.

[sabrina 1]

68. 500,000 African American men mostly, were stopped, frisked and many arrested in

NYC alone last year, and those numbers are just for the 'stop and frisk' law. How many went to jail in NY alone for pot, I would have to look up, but just under that one law, that's how many African Americans were harassed by the cops. These laws are racist. It is so sad to read about young African American kids whose mothers tell them at an early age to be very careful of the cops. Even if they are just walking home from school, the cops use these laws to harass them.

Something needs to be done about them. Someone needs to stand up and start talking about ending this decades-long failed, disastrous policy.

[Sheepshank]

72. And States rights are controlled at this level by Obama?...you are really making me laugh

trying to support the OP in the most inane post I've read in the last week or so.

[JackRiddler]

86. The war on drugs remains federal policy.

Federal law and practice remain the biggest obstacles to ending the war on drugs on a state level. And after three years of being the titular head of the enforcement apparatus for this barbarism: you own it. As much as any of your predecessors who set it up.

[Sheepshank]

90. Spice, meds, inhalants, and dispensaries..........

......state varied medicinal pot permits and inhibitions etc are State and sometimes even City mandates

the examples posted (to which I was responding) are also state mandates and statutes.

[sabrina 1]

97. Federal law trumps state law including laws on medical marijuana. Did you not know that?

My comment was to provide an example of the outrageous racism inherent in the Drug Laws using just ONE example in just one state over the course of one year. I am surprised at the dismissive attitude towards what hardly anyone disputes, is a major problem with these laws frankly.

[Life Long Dem]

76. I don't know the illegal crime(s) the bankers committed.

Cannabis happens to be illegal in many states. Probably why there are people being arrested for cannabis. What are the illegal crime activities the bankers committed?

You can't just make up crimes because you don't like someone and want to see them in jail. It doesn't work that way. There are things called laws that you obey and when you break a law you are then given the appropriate sentence.

Obama on Bank Prosecutions: They Did Nothing Illegal, Only Found Loopholes That We Worked to Close.

http://news.firedoglake.com/2011/10/06/obama-on-bank-prosecutions-they-did-nothing-illegal-only-found-loopholes-that-we-worked-to-close/

[Whisp]

11. I hope Skinner announces soon

whatever he is going to, re: support of President Obama during an election year...

because I can't stomach fucking shit OPs like this anymore.

[BeFree]

17. Bwahahaaa

I do support Obama. Especially the one who spoke in 2008.

Surely you don't think Obama is the Messiah, do you? That he is not to be criticized? That I don't have the RIGHT to speak my mind about the POTUS?

[GoCubsGo]

19. That makes two of us.

Thank goodness for "Trash This Thread", because that's what's about to happen this one.

[BeFree]

30. That reminds me of....

....the way republicans acted when anybody criticized bush.

Guess what.... I am not a gawd-damn republican and I am free to speak my mind.

[mvd]

70. It's one reason I post at various progressive boards now

Some places, you can say negative things about Obama without being treated like a Repuke or a person on the fringe. I'll still post at DU at times as I want President Obama re-elected, but I'm not a complete party-line person.

[SidDithers]

26. +1...nt

Sid

[zipplewrath]

38. We have a whole group just for you

Perfectly free of such posts

[girl gone mad]

51. What will the 10 of you who remain do?

Seems like the "Fuck Nader" and topless beach photo fawning threads would get old pretty quickly.

[Whisp]

57. you better inform Skinner of that number

or do you want me to break the bad news to him.

lolz. sure.

[emilyg]

66. So don't read them.

[_ed_]

69. I hate thinking critically, too

I prefer when everything I hear fits into my worldview.

[tallahasseedem]

77. This.

It can't come soon enough!

[Itchinjim]

12. Be Gone.

[ProSense]

13. This

He has not done anything about global climate change.

America is still headed over the cliff.

...is what's "bad about Obama"?

He hasn't accomplished everything and doom? To claim that America "is still headed over a cliff" is to claim that the country is still losing more than 800,000 jobs per month.

Stuff's happening, and moving in the right direction.


Auto-industry rescue paying dividends
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002186993

EPI: A solid step in the right direction for the labor market
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002137284

Some Bullish Housing Forecasts for 2012
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2012/01/some-bullish-housing-forecasts-for-2012.html

Criminal Justice Reform 2011 – The Good, the Bad, and the Work Ahead
http://www.democraticunderground.com/100252507

Flashback: Richard Kirsch on the passage of health care reform
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002200857


"It is no wonder intelligent progressives are hammering Obama every chance they get. Indeed, if we all joined in and quit brown-nosing the president, Obama would be forced to be more progressive."

Right, it's "intelligent" to constantly complain and ignore progress, and " brown-nosing" to support people who are working toward it, including the President.

Absurd!

[BeFree]

20. Heh

Is it your opinion that I should just stfu and just brown-nose the potus?

Good gawd, that is what the republicans did when bush was the president.

Fuck that.

[truebrit71]

88. I admire your "choots-pa" but be warned...the pile-on will continue unabated...

...criticism of Dear Leader is forbidden around here...afterall, he is perfect and not to be criticised...it is not that he is not enough of a Democrat, it is rather that WE are not Obama-enough for Him...

Here, have some kool-aid...it was made fresh this morning...Try the DLC flavour, it's Yummy!!!

[JNelson6563]

65. I bet loser Obama couldn't turn the Titanic on a dime either!1!

Worthless! No better than Bush!1!!


Oh wait, I had forgotten how important a service these important warriors serve us all by "speaking truth to power" out here on the tubes. On obscure forums. Under screen names, completely anonymous. Brave, brave souls. They selflessly risk so much!



Julie

[JackRiddler]

94. Congratulations. You have more than 21,000 posts on this forum!

Do you wish to reconsider your use of the "keyboard warrior" fallacy, in which people who post, as you say, "On obscure forums. Under screen names, completely anonymous," attack the opinions and person of others on no other basis than that they do the same?

[MadHound]

14. Three things,

First, he is too beholden to his corporate masters, therefore
Second, he governs from the center right, at best.
Third, when the rubber meets the road, Obama doesn't fight, he caves, time and again.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

25. Bottom line: He's a BAD, BAD, BAD, BAD MAN!!!!!

[JackRiddler]

95. No, actually. Would you like another try at reading what MadHound wrote?

Here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002209147#post14

Maybe this time you can do better! I know you can!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

98. Excellent!! Love it!

[Sanity Claws]

15. Did you stumble on the wrong website?

Obama's not perfect but he's a lot better than the other choices.

[Swamp Lover]

16. Thank you Intelligent Progressive for helping us dummies out.

You are so kind to take time out of your very important day to let the rest of us know how we should think and act.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

18. Things could always be better

but, of course, they could always be worse. If people spent half the energy trying to get ultra-progressives elected to state, local, and federal government as they do constantly tearing down members of the party that embodies most of the left-wing agenda and spends as much time as possible (when it's not kneecapped) trying to solve programs and implement saner policies than the Republicans, then we might be further along than we are now. Obama ain't perfect but hit-posts like these really aren't helpful either IMHO. I mean, what is the productive value of posts like these? We already know that some people think that "Obama sucks" and that they won't like him no matter what he says or does, so, really, tell us something we don't know. You don't like the guy? Fine. Don't vote for him but is there a need to campaign AGAINST him- HERE of all places? I mean, unless you really want the Republicans to win and, frankly, if you do, you shouldn't even be here.

[BeFree]

22. Nice spin

You even threw in the term: "Obama sucks."

Those were your words, not mine.

Of course, you could just cop to doing a classical knee-jerk. And that's what I will ascribe to you: just a stupid knee-jerk reply. Did you even read the OP?

[whistler162]

21. You forgot.....

he is a big fat poopie head!

[DinahMoeHum]

23. Unrecc'd

straight to the trash can.

Who is your alternative, anyway? Romney? Gingrich?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

24. OOOOoooooohhhhhhhhh!! OBAMA BAD, BAD MAN!!!!!!

[BeFree]

33. Um.....

Your words are: "OBAMA BAD, BAD MAN!"

Not my words, yours. You make the freepers proud.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

55. He's a bad, bad, bad man, not "bad, bad man!" Get it right! LOL!!!

[Scurrilous]

27. That's it? Only 4 things?

At this rate you'll never be crowned 'highly respected.'

[zappaman]

28. I don't think the OP will ever have to worry about that. n/t

[whatchamacallit]

74. Ha, look who's talking

[Whisp]

29. Emperor you say?

Funny, that's pretty well what low life scum sucker Sicktorum is accusing Obama of as well - that the President is over reaching his powers and 'doing whatever he wants'.

but of course when a so called 'Democrat' says the same shit that low scum sucking Sicktorum does, it's suppose to appear to be constructive criticism and freedom of speech.

what a pantload of vomit.

[BeFree]

31. That is vile

At this rate you'll never be crowned 'highly respected.'

Launching drones over the ME is acting like Emperor.

Yall remind me of the republican's reactions when bush was your leader.

Really quite f'n sad to see here. Instead of arguing the points in the OP, yall remind me of the republicans methods.

[Whisp]

32. you made No points in the OP

you ranted like a crazed Sicktorum.

[BeFree]

35. Wow

That is some vile posting. I guess you think Obama should never be criticized? Is Obama really that fragile in your mind?

[Whisp]

37. believe wtf ever you want

I give a shit about what roams in that gourd of yours.

[truebrit71]

89. So that's a 'yes' then? The president is above criticism?

Is that right?

[whatchamacallit]

75. Yes genius

anytime you use the same word as a republican it's a dead give away you are idologically aligned

[Whisp]

80. when the bellyaching symphonies have the same tune...

then yes, I'd say there was some kind of alignment.

[whatchamacallit]

81. Deep

The left has been ruminating on American Empire forever. Doughboy uses term 'emperor' and suddenly we are him.

[Texasgal]

34. Thank you.

Yes thank your for your daily Obama bash! It wouldn't be DU3 without it!

[BeFree]

36. Well

After 30 some posts, not one has proved the OP wrong.

I am not like the bush suck-ups that would counter no criticism of their leader. We know what I am, what are you?

[zappaman]

39. you could start with post #13

I look forward to you refuting the claims within it.

[i_sometimes]

61. Do battle with the Linkasaurus Rex? Madness!

Truly.

[truebrit71]

91. "Linkasaurus Rex"...

Doesn't everyone know that linking posts to other posts made by yourself validates whatever it is you are saying in the new post...

[Bobbie Jo]

102. Don't look now....

But your laughing troll got tombed.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=278739

Now THAT's funny.

[SammyWinstonJack]

105. ...

Linkasaurus Rex

[Texasgal]

40. You are mistaken.

I am not an Obama "suck up". he isn't perfect and i am no cheerleader.

I find your post disgusting and broad brushed as do may others.

There are plenty of Anti-Obama sites. Go for it.

[BeFree]

42. heh

I am a proud strong democrat. I will vote for Obama.

But I'll not brown-nose him and hide my head in the sand.

[Texasgal]

44. Me neither.

How did you come to this conclusion?

[zappaman]

45. Bully for you!

Now, can you get to refuting the facts in post #13 that contradict your OP?

[SidDithers]

47. Yes, we know what you are...nt

Sid

[Sheepshank]

43. What a bunch of fucking hogwash

He is too comfortable being the Emperor of American Empire.

Lie. Obama actively refuses to act as dictator...no matter how many time posts here state that is exactly what they want Obama to do.

He has not put enough banksters in jail. Actually none? While millions of low-level alleged criminals are in jail.

Lie. There have been presecutions and finance people put in prison...and the investigations are on going.

He has not done anything about global climate change.

WOW...are you really *this* uninformed? Have you not been reading the news about the increased MPH requirements he has imposed on the auto undustry?

America is still headed over the cliff.

Really? guess you missed the last State of the Union and decided you believe Gingrich and Boehner? Nice. How about giving us some charts substantiating, decline in employment, decline in home sales, decline in manufacturing. Perhaps you were talking about something else...examples may just clear this up

It is no wonder intelligent progressives are hammering Obama every chance they get.

That may be your opinion. Many would think otherwise.

There are rare times I miss the un-rec button...this is truly one of those. So this will have to work instead:

BIG ASSED FUCKING FAIL

[bigtree]

52. aren't you special?

. . . you'll get a lot of hurrahs here from other folks (on the left?) who believe nonfactual attack posts like this should receive more credence from Democrats than the rest of the nonfactual slams from the right.

Wallow in it awhile. It's pretty gunky down there.

[Jim Lane]

53. I'd say he hasn't done *enough* on global climate change.

You write, "He has not done anything about global climate change." That's a marked overstatement. I give Obama credit on, for example, the Keystone pipeline decision.

To the Obama defenders here: Obviously he's way better than anyone whom the Republicans might nominate. I can acknowledge that, and plan to vote for him, and still criticize him for things like his decision in favor of offshore drilling, not long before the BP disaster.

[lonestarnot]

60. No thanks. He's made some mistakes that were certainly disappointing, but he's done what

he could with blue dogs and pugs. So no thanks.

[JoePhilly]

63. I hear Obama also kicks puppies competitively for distance and accuracy!

[tallahasseedem]

79. He might even crate and strap them onto the roof of his car...

Oh wait...

[just1voice]

67. A system thinker in a corrupt system

To end the corruption destroying most of the world, we the people, need someone who can think and act outside of the corrupt system. It could be people in Obama's administration, it doesn't even have to be Obama doing the thinking. So far the people in Obama's realm of system thinking are all part of the corrupt system.

[highplainsdem]

78. I suggest you read this Bob Cesca column, which I posted about earlier:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-cesca/progressives-obamabots-an_b_1215133.html

By my accounting, and conservatively speaking (small "c" conservative), there are more than 100 achievements of varying importance ranging from the rescue of the economy from the brink of another Great Depression to the rescue of the American auto industry to the largest middle class tax cut in American history to the repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell. At the very least, and not insignificantly, President Obama's ideas and political savvy paved the way for African-Americans to finally reach the highest political office in the world. The last segregated office is now multi-racial. This can't be understated or ignored. Furthermore, the president just wrapped his third year in office and, much to the chagrin of the far-right, he has at least another year in which to tackle more items on the to-do list.

These items and dozens more are legitimate and undeniable successes, some of them are historically important and many of them are distinctly liberal. Some of them are compromised successes for the sake of passage through a deeply divided Congress and some of them are exacting and untouched. (Various critics note the president had a filibuster-proof 60 Democratic vote supermajority in the Senate for his first two years. This is a fallacy as the Democrats have never been a lockstep caucus. There were at least 10 conservative Democrats like Evan Bayh, Joe Lieberman and Ben Nelson who vigorously opposed legislation like cap-and-trade and the public option and who often voted or threatened to vote with the Republicans to filibuster such items.)

Historically speaking, no president in American history boasts a flawless record of achievement without dark stains on his record. The chief executive lauded as being the liberal hero of the previous century, Franklin Roosevelt, committed some of the most egregious crimes against humanity in the name of prosecuting World War II, not to mention other, lesser shortcomings. He authorized total war against the Axis powers, giving the military complete latitude to annihilate civilian populations in Europe and Japan using the most deadly weapons of that era. In a modern sense, the firebombing of Tokyo alone would earn Roosevelt an hourly shaming from the progressive blogosphere, if not an outright call for impeachment. Add to it the indefinite detention of the entire Japanese-American civilian population and the authorization/funding of the Manhattan Project ushering in the Cold War nuclear era and progressive heads would be exploding all over the Roosevelt administration's record. But historians, both liberal and unaffiliated, regard Roosevelt in a very different light. The New Deal achievements, Social Security and his posthumous victory in World War II outweigh the questionable deeds along the way.

So despite differences on the progressive side, can't we agree that, in numerical terms if not ideological terms, the victories outweigh the failures by a notable ratio, even if the failures seem, on the surface, considerably disturbing? Therefore, shouldn't a positive evaluation be in order? As a movement that regards itself as being reality-based, a measured analysis is crucial to realistically evaluating the president so far. Admitting to a larger number of successes than failures won't make you less vigilant and it won't make you less capable of holding the president accountable.

Link to my earlier post about this HuffPo column:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002189986

[FrenchieCat]

93. Thanks for posting that article.....

I hadn't seen it before.

[treestar]

100. You have a long way to go before you've even begun to back up your claims

[zappaman]

104. Par for the course. n/t