Asking for DUers opinion on "Right to Repair" Do you think it is an important issue?

[Coventina]

I think it could be.

I ran into a "right to repair" situation yesterday.
I was attempting to deploy my little space heater in my office, when the little "foot thingy" (I don't know what else to call it) that switches the whole thing off if it gets tipped over, got snagged and broke off. A little, simple, plastic part broke off, and now the whole thing is a piece of junk, because there is no way to repair it.

The amount of WASTE we have in our economy is one of the reasons we are driving this planet into a ditch. Things are made to be cheap, and not worth repairing, just buy a new one and throw the old thing away.

It's just horrible.

We can afford flat screen TVs, but we can't afford housing, medical care, retirement, or even decent vacations.

We have an entire economy structured around selling cheap goods for the benefit of the 10% who live off their earnings on the stock market.

Would some serious attention to the idea of "right to repair" start to turn this ship of fools around?
Or is it a lost cause?

[hlthe2b]

1. It started with farmers spending $$$$$$ on tractors/combines with no ability to repair

except through John Deere or International-approved outlets. Independent repair shops could not access the parts or electronics which were "proprietary." When farmers could not even get an appointment to repair due to COVID and all other related issues--and every year since, they have lost countless $$$. So, I both understand and agree with their issue.

Since then others impacted by similar manufacturer tactics have fought back. I see now that batteries for iPhones are available on Amazon (with instructions)--something never possible in the past. So, I'm guessing action has been taken in a myriad of areas similarly affected.

[SheilaAnn]

3. Speaking of Amazon, I recently needed a skin graph after my MOHs surgery. Dr. ordered it from Amazon. Who knew!

[hlthe2b]

8. Well, they want to sell everything...

I will have to take a "curiosity" break and search around the medical side sometime soon.

[SheilaAnn]

12. I thought she was kidding at first but voila. $8,000 worth. She said they do have an extensive medical dept. n/t

[ananda]

24. Amazon has its own online pharmacy.

I use HEB, though.

[bucolic_frolic]

2. What's preventing repair of this item?

Drill a hole in the center of the broken off piece, heat a thin screw with a blow torch while holding the screw with a pliers, and stick it through the piece and into the remaining stub.

[Coventina]

7. There is no way for me to disassemble the heater to access the area

where the thing was connected on the inside of the heater.
I can hear the piece rattling around on the inside of the heater when I shake it, and I have the broken off exterior piece.

Not sure if they are even sturdy enough to handle a heated screw.

Such is the pathetic quality.
(I did not buy it, it was given to me by a retiring co-worker)

[bucolic_frolic]

14. Oh, now I see where you're coming from

Boom Boxes are like that. The screws are about 2" long and sunk in another 5", plus star drive needed. Like we all have them sitting around.

[surrealAmerican]

4. I think that's called a "tip switch", because it triggers when the device tips over.

This is more a case of planned obsolescence than a right to repair issue.

[Coventina]

10. Point taken. But I also feel that "planned obsolescence" is a major problem as well.

I guess it's adjacent to "right to repair."

[SheltieLover]

5. Absolutely!

[Intractable]

6. Having the legal right to repair is not the same as having stuff that is possible to repair.

Your ability to repair is limited by your knowledge, your tools, and availability of parts.

Just opening a device like a smartphone or TV can be a challenge. In the process of opening it, it can get scratched up or further damaged.

Some manufacturers practice "malicious compliance." They are legally required to have parts available, but send you a kit with no tools or instructions.

[Coventina]

11. I understand and agree. I guess I was envisioning a return to a time (haha!)

When repair shops were a viable part of our economy.

Not that everyone had to do it themselves, but could take things to electronic repair places, etc. and get affordable repairs to appliances and gadgets.

Now it seems like everything automatically goes in the trash.

It's just disheartening.

[eppur_se_muova]

20. Automation and cheap Asian labor has made it cheaper to replace than to repair.

You can now buy beginner-level musical instruments such as trumpets and flutes for under $100. They are usually made in either Taiwan or the PRC (sometimes Korea, but my *overall* impression is that the Korean companies are pursuing the higher-value markets, and put more emphasis on quality. Exceptions no doubt abound.) They cut costs to the bone, using cheaper alloys and thinner metal, and are often assembled with robot-installed screws that are, by design, one-use only. Machines screw them in with the screws cutting their own threads on the way in, and badly degrading them on the way out. In the past, repair shops would drill out a stripped thread, insert a brass bushing thread to fit a new screw, and the instrument would be almost as good as new, although the bushing would now be subject to wear and probably a first point of failure. Now there may not be enough metal to support a bushing -- drilling out the old threads may just break the post (or whatever the screw was in). If you buy one of these instruments for your kid to play in band class, know that the cost of any repair will probably be 50% or more of the cost of a new instrument. With a flute or clarinet, you can throw out the joint with the damage and replace it with one from a new instrument, and hope the next time there's damage it's on a different joint so you can "cannibalize" the new to keep the old working! With trumpets the most common damage is most likely to the thread on the valve caps, which are made of such thin metal that the threads must be very fine, and finer threads in soft metal are easier to cross-thread. Once the threads are damaged, re-threading is not an option -- too little metal, and too weak. An experienced repairman can de-solder an assembled valve casing and replace a damaged valve, but I've been told that the mass-produced trumpets from China tend to desolder everywhere if you heat them anywhere -- basically, the valve assembly will fall apart as fast as you can repair. Buy a new trumpet.

Of course, this is even more true with electronic devices -- they get smaller and cheaper every year, and repair becomes almost impossible because of the specialized knowledge and parts required. Junk and replace is faster, cheaper, AND easier. It's hard to see how this trend can be mitigated at all.

[Prairie Gates]

42. Repair shops and repair people remain common in low-income areas

[canetoad]

9. I think it's an extremely important issue

Given the cost of stuff these days and the widespread shoddy design and manufacture, including planned obsolescence in a remakably short time.

I loathe waste; will not throw anything that's broken away until I've had a go at repairing it. My father was a fitter & turner; he was the repair/re-use king and he taught us three kids, two girls & one boy how to disassemble, strip down, look for faults and repair them. I still do it to this day.

Some retailers have excellent returns policies and it's no hassle to have broken things replaced within the warranty period. Others - it's like pulling teeth, they make it so difficult.

I first heard about 'right to repair' when the John Deere software problems became an issue as hlthe2b says above. I'm on their side.

[Blue Full Moon]

13. Pollution and waste is corporate design.

They need to make them have cradle to grave. Planned obsolescence needs to be made illegal.

[A HERETIC I AM]

15. Ask any farmer that owns a large piece of equipment made by John Deere

As far as true "Right to repair" issue goes, I am pretty sure they have been sued multiple times.

And there is absolutely a way to disassemble your heater, because it was assembled in the first place.

The problem is it may very well have spot welds or rivets so getting it back together would be an issue.

[ForgedCrank]

16. Right to

repair isn't really about cheap garbage not being worth the time and effort to repair. It revolves more around DRM type stuff and locks that don't allow people to fix their own stuff. The way the laws are setup, it's actually illegal to bypass a manufacturers software locks or security for any reason on a device you purchased and own.
People demanded f$#%^@!# computer screens and soft touch garbage in their cars and appliances, they fell for it. This is the method that manufacturers are using to keep extracting money from consumers, either in repairs or a subscription service to enable your cruise control and power seats. It's the same thing as 75 dollar ink cartridges for a 50 dollar printer. I've even seen RFID locked water filters on refrigerators now. And if you are smart enough and manage to access the software to disable such things, or break into your cars computer in order to fix something or modify it, you can literally be guilty of a crime as well as be liable for civil penalties for doing that to something you purchased.
That is what this fight is really about.
Consumers need to start rejecting these products and refuse to buy them. It's the same with cloud based software subscriptions. The goal is that you will own nothing and like it.

[Jedi Guy]

35. "The goal is that you will own nothing and like it."

The same is true of video games these days, sadly. Once upon a time you bought your game on physical media: cartridges back in the day, then later CDs, DVDs, Blu-ray, etc. And once you had purchased the game, you owned it. You could loan it to a friend for a weekend or, once you were done with it, trade it in at a game shop for credit towards a new game.

And that, of course, was what developers and publishers hated, because if I buy my games used they don't see a penny from that sale. It all goes to the game store, which was, of course, why they aggressively pushed used product. It was a parallel economy within the industry that cut the devs and publishers out of the loop.

So now here we are and the industry is aggressively focusing on downloadable games where there's no physical media. Steam has been around for ages and other digital marketplaces have cropped up to compete with it. You buy and download your games now, so there's no requirement for the publisher to press a disc, create packaging, ship it, etc. Everybody wins!

Except that's not how capitalism works. Bringing a game to market digitally costs the publisher less, but game prices have gone up year after year. Part of that is because the cost of development has skyrocketed as the industry has matured, but none of those savings on avoiding physical media get passed to the consumer. It's just extra profit for the publisher.

But that's not even the worst of it. The worst of it is that if I buy a game digitally, I'm not buying the game. I'm buying a license to play the game, technically speaking. And the publisher can simply revoke that license and take away my ability to play and enjoy the game I purchased. Or they can shutter the servers that support the game and render it unplayable.

Apologies in advance if you're aware of all this, but your statement about owning nothing and liking it just resonated really powerfully for me as someone who plays video games as my primary hobby.

[eppur_se_muova]

17. Any device that is held together with screws can be opened. :)

Plastic cases often have locking tabs that can be pried loose, if you know how to find them. "Electronically" (actually ultrasonically) "welded" cases are another thing; you can't pry them open without breaking some plastic. I've managed to open a few, but they were usually little things like keychain fobs, and often had such disposable, non-standard innards that I couldn't find replacement parts.

Anything that's not under warranty, I open it.

If you have the brand and model no. for the device, look up repair instructions at iFixit.com. I've gotten most of my computer and TV repair info from there, and even corrected one procedure for swapping hard drives in an iMac. If you sign up as a member, you will get occasional (ca. weekly) emails about "Right to Repair" stories and links. You might very well find your heater in the database at their Web site, or a model sufficiently similar you can see what needs to be done. If you can loosen the switch, it might be fairly trivial to glue it back together -- or use something like heat-shrinkable tubing to hold the probe in place.

Disclaimer: I'm not extensively involved with iFixit, I just find them useful. I don't get a salary or click credits or anything. Just sharing a resource; I'm sure there are others, and they may even be better -- if you find them, please share those too !


ETA: Forgot the link ! Someone mentioned John Deere above; you can read more about them and the Right to Repair here: https://www.ifixit.com/Right-to-Repair

[walkingman]

18. As "A HERETIC I AM" posted earlier, John Deere is the poster child for

this issue. They refused to share documentation for their equipment so users of their equipment could repair themselves or buy after market parts for those repairs.

The reality is that we live in a "throw away" society. Very few people even try to repair things these days - just chunk it and buy something else. The majority of our GDP is based on consumption - buy stuff, ads to buy stuff, you need to buy stuff, etc. Hoard stuff and then buy more stuff.

IMO "right to repair" is insignificant in terms of righting the ship - it has sailed.

[A HERETIC I AM]

30. Have you heard of the black market for John Deere software?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/tractor-repair-scam-john-deere-144319113.html

Here's an article on a lawsuit filed by the Federal Trader Commission
https://www.npr.org/2025/01/15/nx-s1-5260895/john-deere-ftc-lawsuit-right-to-repair-tractors

Many of the technical advances surely do benefit farmers and production but when a simple softeware glitch idles a $750,000 or a million dollar combine or tractor, And the nearest dealer is 125 miles away, you either pay through the nose to get a tech to come out or even more to have it trucked to their service center.

There are competitors of Deere that don't do this, and Claas, a major German manufacturer of farm equipment signed, along with several other makers, a "Right to repair" covenant;

https://www.agriculture.com/news/machinery/claas-is-fifth-manufacturer-to-sign-right-to-repair-mou

[Prairie_Seagull]

19. Frequently screws are hidden under decals.

Don't know if this is your case but in my experience this stops most folks.

Good luck, should, should be a pretty easy fix if one can get a part.

[eppur_se_muova]

22. "Removing sticker violates warranty" is old hat on hard drives and other computer components.

If don't think I own any such device that is still under warranty, so it's no obstacle.

[eppur_se_muova]

21. BMW has applied for a patent on a proprietary screw, so only their dealers and servicemen can repair your car.

https://www.autoblog.com/news/bmws-screw-that-no-one-else-can-turn

[Raine]

23. YES, I think it's important

for one thing it helps the environment avoid so much waste.

[MichMan]

25. "Right to Repair" doesn't mean it has to be easy to repair or that all parts have to be made available

The oft mentioned "law" that auto manufacturers are legally required to make parts available for 10 years is a myth.

[Oneironaut]

44. The issue here is DRM as well

It’s not that owners don’t have the skill to repair their equipment. They can’t - it’s a violation of the terms of using the equipment. They can’t even try to repair anything on the equipment because of DRM. Instead, they need to send the equipment back to the company to get it repaired, which allows that company to charge ridiculous repair fees and maintain complete ownership of repairing their product.

John Deere, for example, uses equipment locks and DRM to lock equipment owners out of repairing their own equipment, which they previously would have been able to do. It does this to shut other companies out, charge ridiculous repair fees, and, maintain a monopoly. It’s their business model to make the line go up, because selling equipment alone didn’t satisfy their corporate greed.

[marble falls]

26. If you own a John Deere product it sure is. It needs to be stopped now before more of us with other products get stuck.

[rampartd]

27. yes. i need to be able to fix it myself

i need to be able to buy parts to fix it myself.

there is a list of reasons these guys need competition

[mahatmakanejeeves]

28. "Right to repair" is extremely important, but your issue is not one of right to repair. NT.

[DinahMoeHum]

29. While it's not a burning priority for most of us right now. . .

. . .there ARE organizations, mostly under the "Repair Cafe" umbrella that will fix and help you fix things. For free, to boot.

A place to start: https://www.repaircafe.org/en/

Where they are in the US:
https://www.repaircafe.org/en/visit/


US House Rep. Marie Gluesenkamp Perez (WA-CD3) is a big advocate of Right To Repair, btw.

[CrispyQ]

31. Trinket rich but equity poor.

That's how I heard most Americans wealth described, many years ago.

[Wednesdays]

32. Don't get me started about cars

Forty years ago, just about everyone could do basic repairs and maintenance on their own vehicles. Even extensive repairs such as cylinder head replacement was do-able if you had the right tools and a little know-how (I did just that with my brother-in-law in 1986 on my Mercury Lynx).

Not so much anymore. Everything is computerized and electronic and I'm afraid to touch my car beyond adding windshield solvent.

[Tasmanian Devil]

33. Yes!

It already is a big deal. California (and other states?) have some right-to-repair rules, at least for some products. I follow "iFixIt" (on youtube) which (for computers) reviews how repairable new products are .. and sell kits to repair a lot of things.

But -- self repair of electric heaters might not be a great idea. Circuits for heaters are easy to "repair" incorrectly and you wind up with a fire hazard. A lot of house fires can be directly traced to DIY electrical work by home owners that know just enough to be dangerous.

But .. in general, planned obsolescence is the pits.

[aggiesal]

34. See if you can find a exact model cheap, that doesn't work, but you can pull parts off of it. n/t

[kbowman]

36. I believe in a right to repair

Several days ago I discovered the magic of liquid UV Resin (UV light cures it to a hard clear plastic). My wife had an old Cuisinart food chopper that she loves. It has a clear plastic (polycarbonate?) hopper that I broke a year ago and was hanging onto it until I could figure out how to glue some of the locking bits back together (and recreate a piece that was shattered). The UV resin did the trick very nicely. @Coventina you might be able to use this to repair your heater switch, however, if you are gluing two opaque pieces it may not work because the UV light needs to reach the liquid resin to harden it. Both light and resin are cheap on amazon. I wish I had this stuff for broken toys when my kids were little...

Note - if the cured plastic is in direct contact with food you need to buy a food safe version.

[MadameButterfly]

37. This is bigger than repairs

What are we making things out of and can they be recycled? I want to know if your heater can be broken apart and melted down for re-use, or if it's going into a landfill.

More and more is being made out of plastic which (mostly) isn't recyclable. If something is hard to repair most people won't, even if it's possible: their time is more valuable than the cost of replacement.

We need enough competition that people can choose products that are repairable and that last.
Companies that produce junk that can't be recycled need to be made responsible for the cost of the waste. That's the only way it becomes worth it for them to do better.

It's an emergency and we've barely even begun.

[ForgedCrank]

39. Not me.

I'm a total cheap ass. If something breaks, the tools come out and I'm going to give it my best shot.
Joking aside, I like the challenge more than saving money. One just has to be careful because there are some things that a meat head like me shouldn't ever take apart, some stuff can kill you dead in the blink of an eye so research is important. I won't even think about trying to fix a microwave, for example.

Just in these past 3-4 years, I've become very angry about this trend in consumer products. A manufacturer shouldn't be telling me how I'm allowed to use the stuff I buy. And if they lock me out of it, I'll to to any lengths to break into it just to be able to say say I did it.
I've sworn off new vehicles too. I'm done with this game. For a fraction of the money I can get a showroom condition classic vehicle. I'm sick of the computerized gadgets that don't even belong in a car, stuff that costs thousands of dollars to fix because I don't have the 20 thousand dollar interface tool and subscription to work on it myself.
Anyway, now I'm just ranting. But until people put their foot down and stop buying this garbage, the problem will only get worse.

[MadameButterfly]

41. Everything shouldn't be computerized and high tech

It's so automatic, it seems they aren't stopping to assess whether it's an improvement. Touch screens in cars, for example. Do we really want people who are driving looking down at a touch screen and scrolling through menues instead of reaching for a knob that they can feel without looking? And how does that work with varying eyesight conditions? I'm farsighted so I don't need glasses for driving but I need them for screens.

Besides all the reasons you mentioned.

[maliaSmith]

38. products made and not quality

I agree. I purchased a few years ago, a Maytag stove, dishwasher, washer and dryer. All crapped out. My first Maytag washer lasted 15 years. My next purchases lasted less than 5. So, I just buy cheap appliances because it's not worth fixing them, although I did fix my stove when oven quit. I researched it on You tube, bought the part and the oven works better than before. My dryer stopped putting out heat, I then researched what the issue was, ordered the part on Amazon and my son fixed it. The problem is all these companies sent their mfg business to China or some other country and they just don't make quality products.

What really irks me is when companies move their mfg to other countries, they get to deduct the moving costs of relocating on their tax returns. It's like they're getting paid to fire Americans and move their business offshore. That needs to stop.

[MadameButterfly]

43. We have an appliance repair guy who keeps telling us

to keep our old appliances because they last longer and can be repaired. The newer high tech models break down easily and aren't designed to last as long, besides being harder to repair.

One repair guy was blaming energy efficiency standards in regards to washers/dryers. I don't know if there's a connection or what his agenda was, but I expect that could be solved if its an issue. I wonder if anyone knows anything about that.

[dalton99a]

45. He is 100% correct. Newer models are for energy efficiency, not durability or even serviceability

In fact, the new appliance companies don't care about anything past their warranties

If you have an American-made appliance, try and keep it for as long as you can

[MadameButterfly]

47. i wonder if they are even saving energy if you consider

the energy costs of making twice as many appliances

[CaptainTruth]

40. What really annoys me...

...is how manufacturers today try to save pennies on things like door switches for appliances. (Small switches that sense when the door is closed.) I've fixed dozens of microwaves, refrigerators, washing machines, driers, dish washers, ovens etc with bad door switches. Appliances costing $1k-$3k+ quit working because of a small switch the manufacturer spent maybe 69 cents on. Same with capacitors in ceiling fans, which control fan speed, I've replaced at least a dozen of them which have swelled, cracked, partially melted etc.

The list goes on. It seems like 90% of the time when a major appliance stops working it's due to a cheap part the manufacturer spent less than $2 on.

[GoodRaisin]

46. That ship sailed a long time ago with American businesses.

They put all their attention on great lying ads. Then dump their shit on you.