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If I by gas at CITGO (Original Post) arely staircase Dec 2012 OP
Which makes sense, purchasing oil from Saudi, etc who supports terrorist who attack us, Thinkingabout Dec 2012 #1
i had much rather my money go to build schools and housing for poor Venezuelans than arely staircase Dec 2012 #3
I usually buy Citgo, for the reasons you cited. Chorophyll Dec 2012 #4
me also. nt kelliekat44 Dec 2012 #5
i buy sunoco, which is mostly from canada, or citgo. eom ellenfl Dec 2012 #10
Agreed. Reducing poverty in the Third World is a laudable goal. n/t pampango Dec 2012 #2
nope you are supporting Venezuela's prison system.... whistler162 Dec 2012 #6
You are both wrong..... physioex Dec 2012 #8
+1 eggplant Dec 2012 #12
+1 / I buy gas according to price. nt reACTIONary Dec 2012 #13
on the wholesale market arely staircase Dec 2012 #18
Citgo is (or was) owned by the Venezuelan government, so while the fuel comes from everywhere Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #28
that is what I thought arely staircase Dec 2012 #31
I hope so. I would love to support what he is doing for people all over sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #7
+1 arely staircase Dec 2012 #17
So as long as he supports the poor, he gets a free pass on the abuse of dissidents and shutting down Crackinrocket Dec 2012 #22
Gas and diesel is like 7 cents a gallon in Venezuela. sarchasm Dec 2012 #9
Hugo Chavez is a megalomaniac and an ideologue. cheapdate Dec 2012 #11
Gee...now where else have we seen this... Earth_First Dec 2012 #14
+10. But he won't be around for much longer. reACTIONary Dec 2012 #15
One can only hope. Crackinrocket Dec 2012 #23
so are most members of congress arely staircase Dec 2012 #16
Chavez has admirable ideas and attitudes concerning his countrymen. cheapdate Dec 2012 #21
Mmm, that is what the Bush administration and their propagandists had to say sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #19
"...the Bush administration and their propagandists" cheapdate Dec 2012 #20
Do me a favor. Crackinrocket Dec 2012 #24
i don't think megalomaniacal ideologue and good deeds have to be mutually exclusive. arely staircase Dec 2012 #25
Buy gasoline from a local Mom-and-Pop, or from an independent retailer. cheapdate Dec 2012 #26
it's buy! not by.nt wildbilln864 Dec 2012 #27
You certainly brought out the "Chavez is a dictator" faction. I guess he's been out of the news for a Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #29
"...they're all feeling brave again". Haha! Oh Snap! cheapdate Dec 2012 #30

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
1. Which makes sense, purchasing oil from Saudi, etc who supports terrorist who attack us,
Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:41 PM
Dec 2012

Or Venezuela after Chavez called W a devil. Seems like having W called a devil did not compare to the Twin Towers. Buy CITGO.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
3. i had much rather my money go to build schools and housing for poor Venezuelans than
Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:44 PM
Dec 2012

Semtex and plane tickets for rich Saudis and their dupes.

Chorophyll

(5,179 posts)
4. I usually buy Citgo, for the reasons you cited.
Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:44 PM
Dec 2012

It's not a perfect solution, but it makes me feel a little better.

physioex

(6,890 posts)
8. You are both wrong.....
Sun Dec 30, 2012, 12:11 AM
Dec 2012

If you consider that petroleum products are fungible and a commodity, it would make no difference where you get the products.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
18. on the wholesale market
Sun Dec 30, 2012, 10:48 AM
Dec 2012

but if i buy at an exxon station i am giving money to exxon - same with bp, citgo, etc.

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
28. Citgo is (or was) owned by the Venezuelan government, so while the fuel comes from everywhere
Mon Dec 31, 2012, 02:45 AM
Dec 2012

the profits go to Venezuela, and after that a much larger portion than that any other energy corporation goes to the Venezuelan people.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
7. I hope so. I would love to support what he is doing for people all over
Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:15 PM
Dec 2012

Latin America, mostly of course in Venezuela and the way he provides cheap oil to the poor, right here in the US. Wish our own government would think of the poor that way.

 

Crackinrocket

(25 posts)
22. So as long as he supports the poor, he gets a free pass on the abuse of dissidents and shutting down
Sun Dec 30, 2012, 09:56 PM
Dec 2012

dissent, trampling free speech etc?

cheapdate

(3,811 posts)
11. Hugo Chavez is a megalomaniac and an ideologue.
Sun Dec 30, 2012, 12:28 AM
Dec 2012

His behavior causes me concern. Who monopolizes the the radio and television to talk for 6 or 8 hours at a stretch? A democratically elected leader calling for a constitutional amendment to extend his rule is a red flag in my book. His intentions may be good, but many of his initiatives seem to be marked by extraordinary incompetence. Many of his legislative initiatives seem to be poorly conceived and unworkable. I'm not a fan.

Earth_First

(14,910 posts)
14. Gee...now where else have we seen this...
Sun Dec 30, 2012, 12:54 AM
Dec 2012

My democratically strong-armed government is better than yours!

Neener, neener, nee-ner...

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
16. so are most members of congress
Sun Dec 30, 2012, 10:45 AM
Dec 2012

i am not a chavez cheerleader. i think he has quite the authoritarian streak (though democratically elected.) however, i very much admire his prioritization of improving the lot of the poor in his country. the entire history of latin america is full of leaders who line their pockets by turning their natural resources over to foreign capitalists. hugo doesn't do that. i respect him for it and would like to show my support for that at the gas pump. i had rather my money build schools for venezuela's poor than underwear bombs for al qaeda.

cheapdate

(3,811 posts)
21. Chavez has admirable ideas and attitudes concerning his countrymen.
Sun Dec 30, 2012, 09:51 PM
Dec 2012

I just think he's a huge asshole. And if results and competence in governance matter, then I think Hugo Chavez has been a huge disappointment, especially given the enormous oil revenue he's had to work with.

On the other hand, president Eva Morales of Bolivia, is every bit as leftist as Chavez, probably more so by a big margin. But I like Morales.

I feel like a whore no matter who I buy oil from. Citgo's destruction of the Orinoco River Basin is appalling. BP's poisoning of the Gulf of Mexico is heartbreaking.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
19. Mmm, that is what the Bush administration and their propagandists had to say
Sun Dec 30, 2012, 01:50 PM
Dec 2012

about Chavez.

Let me ask you, do you think the Venezuelan people are too stupid to notice all this about the man they have reelected multiple times over the past 14 years? Maybe they should have consulted with the far Right here in the US who would have told them what a megalomaniac and idealogue he is before making that mistake over and over again?

At least if you are going to criticize the democratically elected leader of another country, please don't use right wing talking points. Base your criticism on facts if you expect them to be taken seriously.

cheapdate

(3,811 posts)
20. "...the Bush administration and their propagandists"
Sun Dec 30, 2012, 09:12 PM
Dec 2012

Last edited Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:32 AM - Edit history (1)

Whatever their opinion was about Hugo Chavez and Venezuela has nothing whatsoever to do with any criticisms I have.

The mere fact that Chavez won elections is hardly a compelling argument that he has been a wise or effective leader. I believe we can each come up with examples closer to home that would show how that argument might be flawed.

And while I'm loathe to dignify your question about whether or not I "think the Venezuelan people are too stupid" with an answer, I'll answer simply, no, I don't think the Venezuelan people are "too stupid", as you put it.

Hugo Chavez's frequent, often daily, habit of appearing on television to deliver non-stop, rambling, speeches often lasting for 3 hours or more is behavior consistent with a megalomaniac, in my opinion.

Besides appearing on the five, Venezuelan state television channels, president Chavez's speeches, known as cadenas, must also be carried on almost the entire national broadcast system. During the 2012 election campaign, a Chavez speech even interrupted a broadcast by opposition candidate Henrique Capriles.

RCTV, once Venezuela's most watched station, lost its broadcast license in 2007. It resumed broadcasting on cable as RCTV Internacional, but was taken off the air in 2010 for refusing to carry Mr Chavez's obligatory broadcasts.

Making matters worse, in my opinion, is the content and tone of his speeches. He relies far too much on pompous, overblown, hyperbolic, rhetoric as would befit a national leader, in my opinion. There's a time and a place for bombastic speechifying, but all day, all the time doesn't fit my taste, if it pleases you.

Substantively, I believe a solid argument can be made that Venezuela and Venezuelans are practically no better off after 12 years of his rule.

I have serious objections to many specific provisions in Venezuela's sweeping education reforms of 2010 -- which I should add have nothing at all to do with "right wing talking points", as you implied. Even if many of the law's objectives were laudable, I think the law as passed is an unworkable mess.

Likewise, I have deep objections to many of the reforms to the "Law on Social Responsibility in Radio and Television".

Lastly, I'll continue to "criticize the democratically elected leader of another country" however I see fit, thank you. Whether I'll be "taken seriously" is not something that concerns me all that much.

 

Crackinrocket

(25 posts)
24. Do me a favor.
Sun Dec 30, 2012, 10:00 PM
Dec 2012

Look up illiberal democracy on Google. Was it the Venezuelan people that reelected him or the suppression of all opposition?

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
25. i don't think megalomaniacal ideologue and good deeds have to be mutually exclusive.
Sun Dec 30, 2012, 10:17 PM
Dec 2012

i am willing to accept that both apply to chavez. i don't worship him and defend everything he does, as admittedly some on DU do.

cheapdate

(3,811 posts)
26. Buy gasoline from a local Mom-and-Pop, or from an independent retailer.
Mon Dec 31, 2012, 12:10 AM
Dec 2012

Never buy from WalMart or from one of the major oil companies if you can avoid it.

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
29. You certainly brought out the "Chavez is a dictator" faction. I guess he's been out of the news for a
Mon Dec 31, 2012, 02:49 AM
Dec 2012

and they're all feeling brave again.


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