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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThis is politics: No permanent friends | No permanent enemies.
It's best to learn this early in political life. It's the core of power-building, so accept it, or find another hobby or vocation. No permanent friends, and no permanent enemies. Not everyone is going to come along on every campaign, but we still need each other in the long run. Also, you remember when people come to your side when it wasn't easy for them.
"No permanent friends, no permanent enemies," is one of those beautiful imperatives that enables society to function -- like the separation of church and state.
If your issues are workers rights, healthcare, Social Security, you're going to find those who are champions for your cause, who might be on the opposite side of the next issue, policy idea, or economic proposal. You work with those who bring themselves to the table with enthusiasm. If you're playing by gentleman's rules, you step around those who insist on being obstacles. But, "no permanent friends, no permanent enemies" means you'll always have the room to critique policy ideas and economic proposals that injure our interests.
Many Dems held their tongues on the president while working to GOTV, and voting for him (I'm sure that's the case with every president ever -- it's not new to Obama). Everyone knew Obama was going to have an extraordinarily short honeymoon this year, because everyone knew the lame duck session was going to be a huge fight for those opposing cuts in Social Security (such as unions and c-3's who just worked their asses off helping Obama get elected).
As the lame duck session reaches it's crescendo and I start to see the old "you're not a loyal dem, you emo-firebagger," non-sense, I have no sympathy. "No permanent friends, no permanent enemies," means that among equals, you never bully people or show contempt because next week, next month or next year you're going to need them in your coalition.
The lame duck fight happening right now
the one to protect Social Security/Medicaid/Medicare
is not being fought "among equals." You've got Pete Peterson's coalition of CEOs, "Fix The Debt," and you've got "rank and file" dems (little old ladies, workers and college students) coming up against party leaders who can't/won't have our back against this odious proposal. Subbing for Rachel Maddow the other night, Ezra Klein pointed out that everyone on the beltway food chain fears losing access and influence, and so they are counting on us, the rank and file with no access or influence to risk, to get loud and be heard.
Let's get real. Obama governs as a right-of-center Dem who too-often has sided with interests that seriously hurt the economic security of the rank and file. It's our right and responsibility to stand up for our interests. This is about survival, not whether we get a big enough bonus this year.
So here it is, Mr. President: This Social Security cut terrifies people. I've seen old ladies break down in tears describing how they already can't afford rent and medicine. The fear and shame is shockingly palpable. Seniors simply can't cut anything else from their budgets, and it's unconscionable that we'd ask them to. Future generations like myself will have even fewer resources available beside Social Security. I'm 46 and I know no one with a pension. I know no one with more than $20,000 in their retirement account.
No one is speaking for those of us who are terrified: not any beltway journalist or elected political figure who peddles influence. The people who do speak up are
well, they are heroes.
And clearly, not everyone is hero material.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,627 posts)How Obama can be even suggesting cuts to SS is beyond me. I don't care what kind of compromise he wants to make, this is beyond the pale.
Don't do it, Mr. President. Don't.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)...and we were looking for the bridge to the 21st Century.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,627 posts)nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)those were inspirational words.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)whenever he swerved right?
If so, good,
if not, your words hold no water.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)But I do get tried of people named Clinton getting passes from the same people who yell at Obama. Yes, I do include the lady who actually got us into another ME war in Libya.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)and it took a while for me to get there. I fought so hard for Clinton in '92, and thereafter. I turned 18 in 1984 -- I only knew Reagan and Bush. Clinton's "new democrats" principle wasn't understood well enough by me. "Globalization" was a fuzzy, new idea that seemed to hold promise.
But what I kept coming back to was that confounded bridge we were promised. I didn't realize when he actually built it, because my vision of that bridge was so much different than his.
And, I was pretty hard on my friends who peeled off in 2000, refusing to vote for Gore, because I still didn't see what that bridge was made of: the destruction of the American Dream...of the job, the family, the vacation once-a-year with the kids, retiring at a reasonable age. This is what the bridge was made of, and we crossed it, and here we are smack-dab in the midst of a 21st century that promises no improvement.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)I was NOT a fan of the Clinton's either of them
and I was led to that by breadcrumbs followed that were bad breadcrumbs
the trail was wrong
and then Al Gore was wronged. So in 2004, for fairness sake, he should have been given a rematch, but 9-11 interfered with that.
He ran a shitty campaign in 2000, yes he did.
In retrospect, it was shitty. And Kerry ran a shittier one in 2004
Alot of good it did, LOSING and get over it- they lost.
one can whine again and again about why they were not seated, but not being seated is losing.
Now people want to give it all up again, to bloviate over this or that.
When healthcare is made EVEN BETTER because the system cannot sustain it, then the 10% won a few years ago will be seen as genius it was.Without that, it would never be made better.
And when it is, people will not need to rely on their SS anyhow. It will be included, like in France among all the new benefits.
$1000 saved a year on healthcare from a better health care system, will overcome any $60 increase a month or year or whatever.
And I get the feeling that there is really NO cry out from the people anyhow-except for the political junkies using it to promote other causes and to fracture the party
Go ahead and fracture it-
1968, 1980, 2000 show what happens
and now i LOVE the Clinton's. Because age and looking backward shows how great they were even when one or three things were not of liking
Age means being realistic, or it should.
so I changed my opinion totally on the Clinton's. And Hillary45 will be a continuation of the Obama years in 2017 to 2025.
Because i don't want any radical change from this administration. Any radical change will move us backward. instead of forward
To move forward, one has to go step by step slowly and look at the end picture, which most don't see.
To those- take off the blinders.
Obama is not a wild 2 yr. old horse.
He is a mature Secretariat now(if using race horse terms).
to go along with the rope-a-dope and chess and football analogies.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)Though honestly, I do think Gore would have made a better bridge,especially an environmental issues. Granted, he should have never picked Lieberman, but I think it is near impossible to have been as bad as W.
and I do believe that we can and shouldkeep pressure up, because the DLC sure as hell will, however, I also rail at those who think that if they drop out, the system will crumble and viva la revolution.. That trick will not work with people armed with nukes.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)and agree on Lieberman wholeheartedly. i was at the rally in Nashville when Gore introduced Lieberman. we were supposed to be excited about it. but i looked around at the crowd of a thousand or so, and didn't see much excitement. the air seemed still with "wtf."
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)No one needs tick off the list of every Democrat who ever embraced monied interests over people in order to speak.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)Ending "welfare as we know it" and all.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)political lives. They don't ask for our votes out of a sense of puppies and snuggles, and we don't offer our continued support on that basis either.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)secondly, the scales leave a briny smell on your clothes.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)because it used to be that BOTH parties were scared of the AARP. You'd think with aging boomers that the AARP would be bigger and more powerful than ever. And yet they seem to be silent.
But then again, perhaps they have been shown to be a paper tiger. Republicans voted for the Ryan budget, which would end medicare as we know it, and they paid no political price for it in 2012.
I wonder if there has been a drop in AARP membership too. I know that I am determined to not join. Maybe the number of potential members has grown, but the number of actual members has shrunk.
cheapdate
(3,811 posts)Romulox
(25,960 posts)They haven't been silent. That's for sure.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Last edited Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:18 PM - Edit history (6)
because it NAILS why we keep losing more and more ground to the one percent. We are propagandized to vow permanent loyalty to the Blue Team regardless of policy, regardless of human consequences, and regardless of the values and principles that led us to be Blue Team members in the first place. And we are propagandized to attack anyone who is not Blue, or who is insufficiently loyal to Blues, also regardless of all these things.
Talk about a recipe for getting people to fight for policies that work against their own interests:
Look what absolute nonsense we have seen here lately. When Paul and Kucinich agreed to demand more transparency on drone strikes, we were admonished with a straight face by some here that we should condone drone strikes and refuse to support that effort, simply because a Red politician was involved. "Fuck the Red," even at the expense of our values and principles, and the policies that would actually help us.
More and more, we are discouraged from talking about policy at all, except as spin. We are taught, through responses to our posting, that actual policies should be mentioned here if and only if they reflect highly on the Blue Team. Every policy must be spun in the best possible light or not mentioned at all. Attempting to criticize policy will elicit immediate nasty attacks and accusations of demoralizing or being disloyal to the Team.
More and more, instead of being encouraged to have pride in our party based on its behavior and policies, we are fed flowery pictures of our "leaders" and are encouraged to let our hearts beat with pride at the very image of them. Or we are purposely fed stories of how this or that Red Team voter out in the country somewhere did something hateful and despicable, and to generalize our hatred and that attitude to anyone who is Red.
This is how they keep us divided. This is how they get us to defend policies that are indefensible, or at least to shut up about them. And this is how they keep us from joining together to stand up for what is right, regardless of who might join our side. This is why we ALWAYS accept another rightward move and another corporate assault.
Permanent loyalty must be to our values and principles, not to politicians or team colors. We choose a team based on how closely that team reflects our values and principles, and if the team wishes to keep us, it must continue to fight for those values and principles. And we should not hesitate to accept help in fighting for those values and principles, no matter where or from what color that help comes. The vast majority of Americans, Red and Blue, want to protect Social Security. This is a coalition that the one percent cannot defeat, if we can work past the Hate Propaganda to build it.
I can't express how grateful for this post I am. I think it should be pinned to the top of the forum, because the message here could save our party and our country.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)not to politicians or team colors. We choose a team based on how closely that team reflects our values and principles, and if the team wishes to keep us, it must continue to fight for those values and principles..."
Very, very well said.
I could dig deeper, but I don't think I'd be able add anything. It's amazing how such simple concepts get lost. And how we forget where our power comes from.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)b/c all that does is show how bereft the discourse is. it's irrelevant.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Exactly. I just saw an OP actually stating and I think it was serious, that when our side does it we should not be blamed for supporting it even if we opposed it when the other side did it. I at least appreciated the honesty there as there was no attempt to try to justify such an incredibly hypocritical sentiment.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)DirkGently
(12,151 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)I suppose we should be thankful for the comfirmation, since usually they deny the support for the exact same policies they opposed under Bush. Amazing really.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)PETRUS
(3,678 posts)nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)there's plenty of professional activists and organizers that use this site, and know well how this game is played. When you're taking heat from the "sit down and shut up" crowd, they're trying to silence you b/c DU is google-enabled, and our discourse is searchable.
when they're trying to silence online speech, they're not giving you the respect they'd afford colleagues in real life. In real life, you step back and let people have their say. when there's total disagreement, you don't attack them. you build your coalition with others, instead.
so, it's pernicious, what we see here.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)raise the tax rates back to Clinton-era levels. it's the inequality that is killing us.
bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)games they are playing in DC with their income.
Otherwise I agree with your post.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)That is true. Makes this Florida girl want to pack up the dogs and move to Vermont.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)who are or will be dependent on it.
In life, all kinds of unexpected things can happen.
I have friends who had a flourishing business that failed when they were in their 50s due to economic conditions that they did not create, friends who had worked for an employer for 20 years and were fired following a buyout of the company in their 50s, friends who suddenly became ill and could not work in their 50s. All of them spent their reserves, their retirement savings just to stay a live. None of them were poor or even on the brink of being poor.
When I post strong messages opposing the chained CPI, I talk about myself because I am now on Social Security.
But I am better off than these friends. I am really thinking about these friends who have been ruined due to the evil of the bankers and not due to their personal mistakes. I don't want to talk to much about them because they have a right to privacy about their personal lives.
2008 just devastated the middle class. The news media says nothing of this. There is a deadly silence. All we hear is about Europe and austerity.
The same sordid characters are running many of our big banks and brokerage houses. They have paid fines but never been called to answer or explain or apologize publicly for their enormous errors and crimes.
And now my friends in their 50s and I at almost 70 are being asked to accept lower Social Security payments.
No, a thousand times no.
And the claim that Obama has stopped talking about chained CPI and cuts to Social Security does not calm my fears or help my friends.
As long as the real suffering that people have gone through is not acknowledged, as long as the financial sector has not publicly taken responsibility and cut their excessive pay, as long as the financial sector is not paying its fair share of the taxes, as long as the losses have not been restored, we cannot be sure that the lessons have been learned from the fiasco that happened in 2008.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)we get it that the banksters were allowed to rob us blind, and then rob the government blind. and we watched as those TARP monies were spent on huge bonuses while we lost our homes, our jobs and our retirements.
We're drawing the line in the sand: you can't touch Social Security.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)while the rich and corporations pay the lowest effective taxes in decades.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)DirkGently
(12,151 posts)They want, quite simply, all of it.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)this is going to be the defining issue of 2013 unless our new electeds put a stop to it.
I'm looking at you, Grayson.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)it's already 67 for me.
Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)Awesome post, and some awesome responses.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)it's a nail-biter.
Malikshah
(4,818 posts)We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow.
Speech to the House of Commons (1 March 1848), Hansards Parliamentary Debates. 3rd series, vol. 97, col. 122.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)forestpath
(3,102 posts)how on earth can anyone buy for an instant that he cares about the middle class, either?
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)reACTIONary
(5,770 posts)...do you want to cut a deal or go over the cliff? If so, what sort of deal do you think would be acceptable to both sides? If not, what do you hope to gain and what do you think we might lose?
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)and guess what? the world won't end.
reACTIONary
(5,770 posts)... I take it you believe we can "go over the cliff" without great damage at least short term. Maybe you think that the tax increases and sequester is a good, or at least acceptable, condition for a sustained period of time.
Or maybe you agree with the conventional wisdom - that we probably can't sustain that condition for long, without a recession or other hurt. If you agree, we still have the same question - what sort of deal would you look for, acceptable to both sides? Or do you think the Republicans will just cave and let us write our own ticket?
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)SS had zero to do with the deficit, cutting benefits will do nothing to help lower the deficit, this is merely a right wing lie and by accepting Democrats are feeding the decades old lies told about SS by the Right in this country. It is 'austerity' under a different name and will do to this country what it is doing to sovereign nations in Europe.
Once Dems make it clear that SS is off the table, then they can get serious. And the way to lower the deficit is to create jobs, end the wars which cost millions of dollars EACH DAY which we seem to have no problem finding. If we go over the phony 'cliff', the Bush tax cuts will expire, that alone will help lower the deficit.
Then we will have the new congress elected in November where Dems have control of the Senate and the WH and have gained at least 9 seats in the House, and we can start working on cutting the spending that actually caused the Deficit.
So yes, as someone said 'no deal is better than a bad deal'. Go over the 'cliff' and hands off SS.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)talk about selling out cheap. debt ceiling used to be pro-forma. now it's grounds to destroy the New Deal.
right now the talks have stalled with the ball in the GOP court -- they can easily come back and take chained CPI.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)That's part of the problem. Obama isn't a junior high school girl whose social circle we're all in. He's the President we elected to serve our interests.
The "cliff" is a synthetic emergency, and the suggestion that there is now somehow no choice but to attack SS to appease Republicans is false as well.
reACTIONary
(5,770 posts)...it is real, and will go into effect on 1/1 unless a deal is struck. So it doesn't matter whether it is synthetic or not.
Perhaps the sequester and tax increases are OK by you. But if not, you would need to cut a deal - you have made it plain that would not include SS. What would it include?
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)Under the Chained CPI, a person who retired at 65 in 2000, if they live to 92 will have one month cut annually as a result. They can't afford that, and it's my calculation that throwing our most fragile citizens into poverty will put an even greater drag on the economy, than my teeny-tiny tax increase. The math is simple.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)Congress and Obama. It is not our responsibility as constituents to help them out of the situation in which wealthy interests really, really, REALLY want to cut Social Security.
They can't. So they can start somewhere else and do something else. Period.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)DirkGently
(12,151 posts)Create a false emergency. Bring us to the brink. Conclude that there is "just no other option" than to impoverish and destroy the most vulnerable Americans. Because we just couldn't convince the half dozen rich people running things to let our parents and grandparents live.
Sigh. What else can we do? Sigh. Sigh.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)and the new congress will take it up again, piecemeal.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)Neither party seems interested in properly funding education now before the cuts. What motivation will they have to restore cuts after the sequester happens?
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)problem.
at every turn it seems like Dems hop from one foot to the other to appease the GOP. it's time to stop this in its tracks. stop building roads and schools in Afghanistan, so we may some here.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)the entire conversation. Obama and too many other Dems are too willing to let them.
reACTIONary
(5,770 posts)Raine
(30,540 posts)hay rick
(7,624 posts)Thanks for an excellent post.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Just a big K&R!!
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)Senior citizens deserve to have their voice heard and those of us like you said will have less Social Security available to us and cannot save enough for retirement must use our voices as well.
spanone
(135,844 posts)In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)"The major problem right now: Republicans want chained-CPI without lifting the debt ceiling. Dem aide calls that a "poison pill."