Queens AK-47 Gunman Shoots, Kills Teen Outside Party- the inquisitr

[farminator3000]

http://www.inquisitr.com/460161/queens-ak-47-gunman-shoots-kills-teen-outside-party/

that gun is just a pistol with fancy stuff all over it, really.

that's all.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Well at least it wasn't a Bushmaster

[NutmegYankee]

2. Oh, it's certainly NOT a pistol.

The AK 7.62x 39 round has far more power.

[farminator3000]

3. it looks like a pistol with bells on

why?

more power?

so what? are you defending yourself from a rhino?

[NutmegYankee]

6. No, you'd need a much bigger round for a rhino.

The 7.62×39mm round of the AK-47 was designed specifically for machine guns by the Soviets. You know, just in case a nasty herd of Capitalist humans was descending upon the motherland.

[Remmah2]

15. Looks like the picture was truncated.

Only the media will know if it was done intentionally.

[farminator3000]

4. 39 rounds? wha?

are you defending against a flock of seagulls?

[NutmegYankee]

5. usually 30. The 39 is the length of the cartridge in mm.

The cartridge (bullet) is a 7.62×39mm round.

[bongbong]

7. Very imporatant to get the minutiae down

Because knowing that the victim died .14 millisecond sooner than a weaker gun would've killed him is VERY IMPORTANT to know.

[NutmegYankee]

9. A handgun round might not kill them.

A rifle or machine gun causes more damage. As for knowledge of weapons, I love history.

I'm not a fucking gun nut, so step the fuck off it.

[farminator3000]

14. which is it? rhinos or commies?

[NutmegYankee]

20. Just adding some sarcasm.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. Actually as a medic it was critical we found, when possible,

What hit our customers before transport to the trauma center.

Trust me, the damage done by a .22 Long is spectacularly worst than a .22 short. In the vernacular, the difference between a rife round and a pistol round.

My trauma docs loved us when we managed to find that out. It did determine some of the care and x-rays...all to do with pen value and cavitation potential. The .223 is among the worst...the AK round is actually worst than the .223

So yes, it does matter.

Here is how they were called in Mexico, due do the looks, Cuervo de Chivo, ram's horn.

Incidentally, they also wanted to know the details in a car crash, photos were even better. It's called mechanism of injury.

That is the real world reality check.

En route I wanted to know as well...things like how fast they travel, effective and potential ranges, were like essential to deploy my people.

[Remmah2]

17. One thing is for sure.

A Bushmaster you are not.

[Mopar151]

10. The Kalashnikov AK-47 is the world standard military assault weapon

It's so universal that our military buys them for our allies. A "civilian" semi-auto version is functionally the same as a good deer rifle. like this Browning .308

What the fuck you need one of these for in Queens, I got no idea....
In the vernacular of Chris Rock "Most of the trouble in the world can be traced to one cause - N****s be shootin' at the neighbors!"

[farminator3000]

23. so what?

you just wanted to type the n word to look tough.

lame.

[Mopar151]

36. So what?

I generally paraphrase that to "nitwit", i.e. "Books is like Kryptonite to a nitwit!" I've had a couple of those nitwit neighbors myself....... And they were evidently in Queens that night.

[farminator3000]

44. chris rock talks about nitwits a lot? really?

are you a "nitwit"?

or a "nimrod"?

[Crackinrocket]

63. Could you clarify?

[farminator3000]

64. no.

can you?

[Crackinrocket]

65. Nevermind.

[Major Nikon]

26. A Monte Carlo stock is not nearly as good for spraying and praying

Which is why the military doesn't use them for anything other than sniper rifles.

Just sayin'

[Mopar151]

37. Point taken

At the current state of discussion, both guns are considered equivalent. If you have a good way to differentiate the 2, that can't be changed out in 15 minutes (like the stock), speak up.....

[Major Nikon]

38. I've never advocated limiting guns by their appearance

Function is the only thing that matters to me, but I'm pretty sure the NRA and most gun nuts are going to like my idea of gun control even less than what's currently on the table.

At the federal level, I would ban the sale of all handguns and ban the sale of all guns above a reasonable standard for a sustained rate of fire(my idea of that is a 6 shot revolver). Any device sold or manufactured that is designed to increase the rate of fire for any weapon would be banned. I would allow state and local governments to implement their own standards which may be more strict depending on their needs. All new weapon sales would be tracked at the federal level throughout their life cycle and anyone caught violating tracking requirements or modifying any existing gun to beyond federal standards would be charged with a federal felony.

[Mopar151]

39. I don't know if it's workable, but it's a better place to start discussion.... n/t

[Major Nikon]

40. Not only is it workable, it's quite accommodating

Guns could still be manufactured that fulfill most any desire for hunting, self defense, and target shooting. Guns that are designed to be concealed or for mass murder would be severely limited.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. Licensing like it is already done for machine guns

Works for me. Yes, you can buy a tommy gun, but it is a real pain in the rear to do that. Extending the 1934 requirements would not be that difficult if people had any common sense.

ATF would have to be funded, but the taxes would wrk for that.

[Mopar151]

50. I advocated something similar

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2082609

[ManiacJoe]

51. You actually have both statements completely backwards.

> A Monte Carlo stock is not nearly as good for spraying and praying
The traditional Monte Carlo stock is much better for "spraying and praying" as it is easier to shoot from the hip.

> Which is why the military doesn't use them for anything other than sniper rifles.
The military uses pistol grips on the rifles because it is more ergonomic for shooting from the shoulder.

[Major Nikon]

54. Uhhm, OK

I guess that's why deer rifles have Monte Carlo stocks seeing as how shooting from the hip is so much mo betta for that and pistols have pistol grips because they are easier to shoot from your shoulder. Makes perfect sense.

[ManiacJoe]

55. Good job at misreading everything.

> I guess that's why deer rifles have Monte Carlo stocks seeing as how shooting from the hip is so much mo betta for that
You can guess that if you want, but you would be wrong.

> pistols have pistol grips because they are easier to shoot from your shoulder
Now you are just being silly.

[Major Nikon]

56. I'm agreeing with you. What's the problem

Of course you're right.

[ManiacJoe]

57. You have an odd way of showing it.

Or you have a bad habit of leaving off the sarcasm tags.

[Jenoch]

11. It seems they are making the assumption

that the gun used in this crime was an AK, but there are several other makes of guns that are chambered in the same cartridge.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. No, an AK is not a pistol

It came out in 1947... Why the 47.

It is an assault rife and fires rife ammunition, known as Warsaw Pact ammo.

It is slightly smaller than the .223... But not by much.

It is still the most popular riffle in the developing world and you can find it at markets all over Africa, as well as emblazoned in a few national flags.

It was designed with very lose tolerances and yes, you can put it in a pool of mud, shake it and it will fire.

In recent years, irony alert, the sks, a licensed semi auto copy of it, and the Saiga, a civilian version of this, have become very popular in the US. Ironic, since this is what we faced throughout the Cold War. If we have an executive order forbidding the importation of assault rifles, it will be a very real blow to the Russian Weapons industry. We are the main market these days.

[Kaleva]

16. The SKS and AK-47 are totally different guns

The the AK uses rotary bolt and the SKS has a tilting bolt and parts of one are not interchangeable with the parts of the other gun.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. It will still be a blow

You dig?

[Kaleva]

27. The SKS preceded the AK-47 so it couldn't be a licensed copy of the AK-47...

is all I'm saying.

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. Ok

I ain't gonna argue...whatever.

[zappaman]

45. Because you're wrong?

Yeah, I wouldn't argue either.

[aikoaiko]

25. You can get a semi-AK style pistol that shoots 7.62x39

I had one and sold it during the last panic buy.

[IMG][/IMG]

[Remmah2]

18. They should probably ban those things in NYC.

Yup.

[Telly Savalas]

43. I'm really shocked that there are people at DU who are too fucking stupid

to acknowledge the differences in the impact of a municipal restriction on something versus a nationwide ban.

While the overall efficacy of a nationwide ban on certain types of firearms may be an open question, it's pretty fucking obvious to anyone with a functioning brain that comparing such a nationwide ban to a city regulation is apples to oranges.

[farminator3000]

19. sounds like there were lots of casings for the police to analyze

Teen shot and killed in Far Rockaway, Queens by two masked men armed with AK-47, pistol
Police are still trying to determine why Xavier Granville, 17, was targeted

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/queens/teen-shot-ak-47-toting-gunmen-queens-article-1.1229437

i'll give someone else the opportunity to complain about #10 up there

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. Bad reporter

The Ak is not a pistol. Or at be god reporter. See the comma.


Teen shot and killed in Far Rockaway, Queens by two masked men armed with AK-47, pistol

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/queens/teen-shot-ak-47-toting-gunmen-queens-article-1.1229437#ixzz2GVbJrycC

So he was targeted by people wielding two weapons.

[farminator3000]

24. that's a pistol grip, isn't it?

i said the big one looked like a fancy pistol, having a pistol grip and all.

that's all i said

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. What you are missing is that there were two weapons involved.

Rifles come with pistol grips, especially this family of assault weapons.

This matters to the detectives right now. If, for the sake of argument, the kid died from a fully automatic AK...it will add decades to the sentence since those are illegal. If this was a semi type, civilian model... Well it s still murder (and it is in the family that should be banned)

The round is the same though.

Of course...they need to find it first, and this ain't a movie script.

It sounds like...a gang hit.

[oldhippie]

48. If the accepted dictionary definition for a word isn't ....

... what I think it should be, then the definition is wrong and should be changed.

Seems only right to me.

[Mopar151]

49. No, it's not "just" a pistol grip

From your OP:

"that gun is just a pistol with fancy stuff all over it, really"

No, really, it ain't "just a pistol"

[farminator3000]

58. that's what it looks like to me...a pistol made up to look like a MILITARY GUN

"Reflecting Soviet infantry doctrine of its time, the rifle is meant to be part of massed infantry fire, not long range engagements.

There are scores of variants of Kalashnikov assault rifles made in dozens of countries, far too numerous to address here. They all owe their roots to Mikhail Kalashnikov. Many are clones of varying quality ranging from finely engineered weapons to pieces of questionable workmanship.” [36] As a result, the AK-47 has a service life of approximately 6,000[37] to 15,000[38] rounds"...blah blah

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47

not house parties. or target shooting, really.

[ManiacJoe]

59. Here is a link to the uncropped photo of the rifle:

http://thespecialistsltd.com/ak-47-folding-stock-0

[farminator3000]

61. right

so you take off the foldy thing, the big mag, whatever the hell that is on the business end,

and you have a semi-auto pistol. it is a souped-up pistol.

[ManiacJoe]

62. No, it's then just a chopped down rifle.

But based on the looks one could easily see it that way.

[nadinbrzezinski]

68. No, you got a riffle

With a muzzle velocity of three times the speed of sound and a rifle cartridge.

On edit, I have yet to see any pistol that achieves that muzzle velocity.

[eyl]

85. Nope

Way too long to be a pistol, for one thing.

[farminator3000]

86. you unscrew the barrel and it is a pistol- its called cheating

it is just a fancy pistol- a military rifle designed for short range- whatever YOU want to call it, it is a snazzed up pistol, a watered down rifle, blah blah

it looks wrong. not for everyday citizens, i'd say.
who don't really need something you can stash under the seat of your car, or get a scope for, not really good for hunting...


Reflecting Soviet infantry doctrine of its time, the rifle is meant to be part of massed infantry fire, not long range engagements.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47


Accuracy
The AK-47's accuracy has always been considered to be "good enough."[50][51][52] The milled AK-47s are capable of shooting 3–5 inch groups at 100 yards, whereas the stamped AKM's are capable of shooting 4–6 inch groups at 100 yards.[52]

not really a great gun, whatever you call it...no reason to have 100 million of them floating around...

[farminator3000]

30. those are two different links, by the way. slow down.

and obviously that isn't the ACTUAL gun used in the picture.

yep.

from the link
The two gunmen opened fire around 12:30 a.m. as Granville was headed for home, according to the witness. The second shooter was armed with a .45-caliber pistol, and the two masked men began spraying gunfire on Beach 15th St. near Heyson Road.

maybe they both shot him. what difference does that make?

from the OP, end of article. did you make it past the picture? did you even click the link?

Police in Queens found AK-47 assault rifle shell casings as well as evidence a .45 pistol was used during the gunfire. No arrests have yet been made in the teen’s murder.

[jmg257]

31. Wow...OP about a 17 yr old shot in the head...and with 27 responses,

Atleast 25 are arguments about what an ak-47 really is, or isn't.

Sks, Saiga, 7.62x39, yada yada yada

Pretty fucking sad.

[farminator3000]

32. these guys got nothin tonight

i'm going to sleep...

[pinboy3niner]

34. You think THAT'S sad? An AK is what blew away half my teeth and jaw...

...and in another thread I was told, "You were lucky you were not shot with a full power round."

It seems to be a knee-jerk response for some to minimize the destructiveness/lethality of a particular weapon or a type of ammunition.

Besides my own wounds, which left me hospitalized for 18 months, I saw enough people wounded or killed with AKs and M-16s in combat to have a pretty good sense of their destructive power and lethality. Trying to put a 'Hello Kitty' sticker on it metaphorically just doesn't wash with anyone who's been up close and personal with the carnage and death caused by these weapons and their ammo...

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. Ah what s sad is that somebody

Killed somebody with such a weapon.

And what is sad is that indeed we have civilian versions of this.

But hey...more gunz.

(Now when actually making policy the internal workings matter and using name won't work)

[smirkymonkey]

41. Just what I was thinking. Now that I have picked my jaw up off of the floor,

all I can say is this thread is shameful and pathetic.

I am very sorry for the dead teen and the family and friends. Excuse me while I go take a shower now.

[Initech]

52. Yeah I think this thread is more shocking than what actually happened.

[farminator3000]

67. you are correct!

i mean, i knew, but still...

[Hugabear]

42. Gun nuts love to talk about guns, not so much the victims

A gun nut will over-analyze the weapon involved, tell you exactly why it is or isn't an "assault rifle", etc. Just look at how many of these posters have the gungeon as their favorite forum.

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. So you know

Good gun policy requires knowing this shit...so does good trauma care.

[Mopar151]

53. With you 1000% n/t

[morningfog]

60. It's the New DU! Now with more GUNGEON GUN PORN!

[farminator3000]

33. ok, now i'm going to sleep

but #10 up there really bugs me, know what i mean?

[farminator3000]

66. hoo boy, even worse than i thought...

Initech (35,699 posts)
52. Yeah I think this thread is more shocking than what actually happened.

i mean i expected something like that, but....

so, in conclusion, it looks like a fancy pistol to me. a nasty one.

[nadinbrzezinski]

69. Your heart is in the right place

But good policy will require that those who write it know some of this shit, which you don't.

We really cannot ban riffles cause, well, they look scary and shit.

I sent you an extensive pm of why the details matter.

Thankfully, you are not writing policy. You are unwilling to admit that a rifle is a rifle and not a pistol.

Yes, it matters both at the policy level and to trauma teams everywhere.

[farminator3000]

70. no, my brain is...

We really cannot ban riffles cause, well, they look scary and shit.

why not? if they are frivolous? it is a pistol made more deadly with fancy add-ons. no use for it, really.

Thankfully, you are not writing policy. You are unwilling to admit that a rifle is a rifle and not a pistol.

i am saying that it is a pistol made to look "cool" and "macho", not a rifle, and it should be banned.

an ak-47 is a rifle, yes. but that thing is some kind of hybrid BS. no good. real ak-47s should also be RESTRICTED.

Yes, it matters both at the policy level and to trauma teams everywhere.

i'm sure the first question an EMT asks is "oh my god what kind of GUN WAS IT?!?!?"

[nadinbrzezinski]

71. No pistol, for starters,

Can ever be as deadly as rifle ammunition.

It is simple physics.

And the AUTOMATIC military grade AK-47 is not legal. The civilian versions, knock yourself silly. We are the number one civilian market for Russian arms right now. I know lovely thought.

That is what you are missing.

You write your congress critter, they will ignore you as an ignorant boob, serious. This is why the Brady campaign bothers with the boring details. They know that it is in the realm of the possible to ban both the semi AK and AR...alas it is not cause they are damn scary, but because of how they work and their potential rate of fire. That is the case that will make sense. Not because they are black and scary, but because they have an effective range much longer, by orders of magnitude, than a pistol...and can spit ammo at 4-6 rounds a second. (So can a semi automatic pistol by the way...it's the range)

I even made the case for mandatory smart gun technology as soon (we are close) as it s deployed to my Congresswoman.

But seriously, due to the job I speak with members of congress regularly. You want to be taken seriously, show some expertise. Otherwise, they will ignore you.

And yes, at a shooting scene we always asked what gun was involved...it is relevant to the mechanism of injury...talking as a paramedic. Just as I would ask what type of knife was used, or speed in a crash, or height of fall. This did not mean we got that info all the time, but the damage done by an AR round is spectacularly worst than a 38 special. Not that both are capable of killing, both are...but the internal damage done by a .223 is far worst than a pistol round, even when both are lethal. The .223 has a more lethal potential as well. You don't believe me, go talk to trauma docs or the coroner.

So you do not even know what EMT's ask? Willfully ignorant I can tell.

Here is the difference in penetrating power. We took a gent to the ER with a .22 short to the head. That is a pistol. The round was so underpowered that it never penetrated the skull...oh he had a hell of a headache and remained in the ER for 12 hours...but all he got was a concussion. Two weeks later we picked up his brother ( gang hits) the riffle round went through and through, temple to temple. He was declared an hour later at the trauma center. Both were .22. One was a pistol round, the other a rifle. So yes, it matters.

And when seeking cover...it also matters. Did that shit way too many times.

So you want to write good solid policy, take the time so you can make the case to your congress critter. By the way, all the other pesky details don't really matter. This post has the relevant information to make an intelligent case. It really does not matter if you know the difference between bolt action or gas operated. Just that 30 rounds, at 4 rounds a second, is way too fast to remain in civilian hands. (That is one extended magazine in 7.5 seconds)

Want to really impress them? Lord of War is based on a real life black weapons market guy...these rifles, due to that scum, and straw purchases, can be found in combat zones around the world. Why the gun show loophole has to be closed, matter of national security. (Especially if your critter happens to be GOP)

But hey, your choice is you want to be laughed out of the inbox for the staff that reads that shit or answers the phone.

And while you are at it...have you given to the Brady Campaign?

[farminator3000]

72. your first sentence was good, but...

nadinbrzezinski
71. No pistol, for starters,

Can ever be as deadly as rifle ammunition.

just stop right there, i didn't say it was a pistol, i said it looked like a fancied-up handgun, which it does and is.

so say its a pistol that shoots less damaging bullets at the rate per minute of a rifle. so what?

nobody has any reason to use something like that unless they're in combat.

yes, i'm aware the bottom one is an AK. this is what i mean- just a pistol under all the junk...just take the barrel off...no use for it

people should NOT be able to modify guns to get around laws, kinda selfish, i'd say

[nadinbrzezinski]

73. Dd they under current federal law?

That and the .45 are banned in NYC already.

So.

I made my case of why some of the shit matters, not because of gun fans, this is what you need for policy... At this point, I told you why, have a happy new year. I am done.

I gave you some friendly advise since I deal with these folks who actually write policy, like for real. Knowing a little and life experience led to a member of congress actually paying attention. It matters.

Have a good day.

[farminator3000]

74. don't understand at all...

nadinbrzezinski
73. Dd they under current federal law?
That and the .45 are ideal in NYC already.

So.

i just can't answer that.


Knowing a little and life experience led to a member of congress actually paying attention.

i really don't want to know, was it one of these?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022099581

[nadinbrzezinski]

75. No

Last edited Mon Dec 31, 2012, 12:49 AM - Edit history (1)

I said local, not the next state over

Have you given money to the Brady Campaign?

I will take your silence as a no...so sad...I am a member of the BRADY campaign. I suppose you got no clue who they are. Too bad you think a former field medic is spouting NRA talking points

So sad.

[zappaman]

83. "And when seeking cover...it also matters. Did that shit way too many times."

Also "Been in enough shoot outs to fill nightmares."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1996780

You are very brave.
I was wondering if you could tell us when and where these shootouts happened?
Please tell us!

[BanTheGOP]

76. We have to tie in every gun murder with the backing of the NRA and the GOP

If the GOP didn't exist, then the NRA would not be allowed to exist in the sense that guns wouldn't be allowed, so the gun nuts may as well call themselves the National Hot Girl Admirer's Club....they'd be just as likely to attract one as to shoot off a gun.

Ok, bad joke, but the end of the year is nigh, and it was a great one....we've finally turned the tide, and the GOP will never be a federal force again...ever!

[farminator3000]

79. i agree, they are beyond IRRATIONAL...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022099581



and thanks for saving this thread from the depths of, well, geez...

[Ed Suspicious]

77. I really hate the gun nerd talk that seems to arise in response to these threads. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

78. Some f the "nerd" talk matters

When writing policy. Just a few nerd details will make your case better when writing congress and not asking, demanding, intelligent gun policy.

It also matters if you are a trauma doc or a field medic. It is not only limited to gun nuts that will argue the relative advantages of one type of gun over another n the same family.

It does not help the case either when people are willfully ignorant of basic physics.

I want an AWB. But the OP is quite UN- helpful in her willful ignorance.

[Mopar151]

80. Exactly - why I chimed in in the first place.

I'm a very industrial guy - who, for the record, does not own or want a gun. But I have a LOT of inside knowledge about this stuff - my (Purple Heart) Dad carried a BAR (Clyde Barrow's favorite) in the French mountains in WW2. I worked in the composites business for a while - making me intimately familiar with flak helmets and various sorts of composite armor. Numerous friends work for gun factories or defense contractors, and I've had some pretty spooky co-workers.... plus a few other little things that common sense and confidentiality agreements prevent me from going on about.

[nadinbrzezinski]

82. I was a field medic

During the early years of the war on drugs. For other reasons got intimately familiar with Kevlar and how it works. I credit my vest for not breaking a rib in an accident...amazing material.

I wish, a few times, I had more than the body armor I had...and I wish I did not have the life experience. Otoh, when I talked to my congress critter she listened. I did not fill her head with useless stats, just told her to concentrate on inner workings, rate of fire, and planted the seed for smart guns.

But I made it clear, banning them on looks ain't gonna work.

Sent her a copy of the editorial as well. We need to be intelligent about this. And just a little nerd talk goes a long way. A lot places you firmly on the other crazee side. Balance...

Now back to CHP site...the winter advisory should go to storm soon I fear.

[farminator3000]

81. don't look between our 2 posts, then!

sheesh

[farminator3000]

84. sorry to bump this thread, i think its over...hopefully...just wanted to give it a happy ending?

[farminator3000]

87. UPDATE: they caught the guys! wow! so now we might find out where the gun came from...

http://online.wsj.com/article/APaa742a9cd468476198ba0ec8c9d6759a.html