If ammunition were as regulated as Sudafed

[Scuba]

[spanone]

1. k&r...

[In_The_Wind]

2. It would be a damn good thing!

[indepat]

3. As I was providing my ID to buy Zertec D, I mused aloud for all to hear:

"bet it is easier to buy an assault rifle with a 30-round magazine than to buy a little Zertec D." What a fucked-up RW nation we are.

[jody]

7. To LEGALLY buy an "assault rifle", one must comply with FBI procedures under 26 USC Chapter 53. nt

[indepat]

11. Lordy, I didn't know that. That it is legal is an abomination, but one must realize such is peachy-

keen in a RW-dominated society.

[jody]

14. Been like that since 1934, long periods that we Democrats controlled government. nt

[Hoyt]

27. That doesn't apply to any of guns used by Lanza, Stawicki, Holmes, Loughner, Zimmerman, and

others.

NRA and gun culture have confused the issue to keep the pipeline open to these lethal weapons.

Semi-autos, including handguns, should be clearly categorized as assault weapons, because that is exactly what they are, how they are marketed, and primarily why the gun cultists scarf them up.

[bobclark86]

81. ... who all still had to

file a 4473 with an FFL and pass a background check. Lanza stole his. The rest legally bought their guns and jumped through all the hoops.

Did you have to go through a federal background check to get your Zyrtec? No? Then your comment was incorrect.

[Hoyt]

84. Well, Bob, I hope you are more discerning when carrying your gun in public. I was replying to Jody's

crud about auto/machine guns.

[Mojorabbit]

53. I still can't believe we have to show ID to get sudafed. It just amazes me. nt

[Rockholm]

82. I also make snarky comments when handing over my ID....

I tell the folks at CVS that they are crimping my meth production. I like your comment much better. I might have to start using it.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

4. If sudafed were like ammunition...

You could just make your own sudafed at home for 75% of the cost of store bought product.

[RomneyLies]

23. Tahnks for the clarification

Maximum purchase of gunpowder per month = 100 grains.

NO MORE.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

47. LOL, absurd.

You realize, that even under a STRICT blackpowder/musket/muzzleloader interpretation of the Second Amendment, that's less than 2 shots worth of powder for a tyypical muzzleloader/flintlock?

Go ahead, I support your proposal 100%... all the way through the supreme court and into the trashcan.

[RomneyLies]

48. Then walk back your shit

Those who reload are the least of my concerns, but if you raise the bullshit, then there's no choice but to get fucking HARSH on gunpowder instead of rounds.

[jberryhill]

54. Make your own gunpowder?

Do you machine your own brass? You can only reuse it so many times?

Make your own primers? Extrude your own plastic shell tubing?

You know WHY there are hassles getting Sudafed?

It's not about the Sudafed - it's about people making other stuff at home.

What you are saying is that we can't clamp down on meth, because people can make it at home.

Yes, they can.

That's why it is a hassle getting Sudafed in large quantities.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

56. OK, you've explained why sudafed in bulk is bad... Why is ammo in bulk bad?

It took less than $30 worth of ammo to tear apart sandy hill. Regulating ammunition to a limited numerical quantity will not deter a single shooting, let alone mass shooting. A criminal only needs a few bullets to gin up the courage to go rob and shoot someone. A deranged ex only needs one or two bullets to go exact revenge on their former spouse or lover.

Why pursue a ban on amount of ammunition? Seems to me that no matter how much public compliance ammo limitation bans could ever be... it wouldn't stop anything.

[jberryhill]

57. You're going to have to learn to follow a discussion

The OP proposes controls on the sale of ammunition.

You are among two people who popped up to explain that people make their own, thus bypassing controls on ammunition and therefore making such controls impossible. This objection is, of course, nonsense, because the sale of reloading supplies can themselves be controlled.

I have no comment or opinion on the OP's proposal to control ammunition sales. My response is to the error being made in the assertion that reloading somehow renders such controls impossible.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

59. Recap...

The OP, in a nutshell, said "amount of ammunition purchased needs controlled like pseudophedrine". I said, "then people will just MAKE ammo". To which the OP responded with some silly arbitrary amount of ammo precursor restriction (100grn powder). I responded by pointed out how silly and unconstitutional such an act would be (restricting reloading supplies to one or two shots, lol). And then you started talking about possible limitation on reloading suplies... ?!?

To respond more accurately to your first comment in the subthread; Yes, you can make your own single-based smokeless powder (you'll need a nitrating-acid solution and cellulose). Making a simple black powder mixture is even easier. Lead Styphnate primer filling is a bit trickier, but phosphorus and/or chlorate based priming substitutes exist. All of these ingredients are over the counter. Primer caps/anvils can be reused several times... or you could just stock up on 10,000 primers for like $150. Brass for pistols can be used dozens of times - pretty much shoot it till you lose it. Rifle Brass probably 5-10 times before stress rupture. Lead can be easily melted from tire weights and cast/swaged into bullets.
Firearms and ammo are like 200 year old technology... it's pretty basic science. Lots of people reload.

Nevertheless, a more apt comparison to making your own ammo would be making your own pseudophedrine at home. Also possible at home and not all that difficult, just uncommon. Junkies just buy the psuedofed instead because its WAY easier than synthesizing.

But I digress. The OP compared BUYING pseudophedrine to BUYING ammo. It had nothing to do with the restriction of ammo or pseudophedrine preparation reagents/materials. Perhaps it is you who should stay on topic.

[Coyote_Tan]

92. It isn't about stopping mass shootings or even individual ones...

It's just an opportunity to use emotion to bypass logic to enact gun control and eventual removal.

[allrevvedup]

60. Point of info: you can't get Sudafed in large quantities,

only small quantities, and that goes for related products and generics. It's a pain in the ass if you suffer from hay fever and live where trees, grass and weeds grow in abundance all year round.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

93. I agree, sudafed limitations are overly onerous. nt

[Chorophyll]

5. K&R.

As a registered Sudafed purchaser, I approve this post.

[NutmegYankee]

6. The problem is establishing a legal limit.

Target practice consumes a lot of rounds. Just sighting a hunting rifle and getting proficient in aiming it can eat up 300 rounds for a season. And if you just want to target shoot, you can consume a lot more.

[Arctic Dave]

9. Three hundred rounds to sight in a rifle?

Where in the hell did you learn to shoot?

[NutmegYankee]

10. sight in and practice shooting the rifle.

It took some time to get used to a .30-06 and to bring it back onto target after loading the next round. I spent 200 just developing the right feel for the thing. It kicks like hell.

[Arctic Dave]

12. I think it would be cheaper if you just start buying meat at the local

grocery chain.

[NutmegYankee]

13. That takes the fun out of it. It's a hobby/sport.

I just got into hunting this year. My other hobby is pistol target shooting, which I'm very good at. But pistol competition is nothing like hunting.

[Eleanors38]

15. Welcome to the fraternity of America's most effective conservation groups: Hunters.

[zabet]

89. Welcome me to it too then.

I hunt to eat on a neighbors chunk of land. With what comes out of my SS check barely covers my meds and utilities. I hunt to put meat on my table and in my freezer. The venison I processed and pachaged this season will provide nicely to my diner table and abate much of the food costs since I also have a large garden every year.

Your broad brush splatters paint on places it shouldn't. Registered Democratic at 18 and have voted that way since. Hunting so I can eat does not make me a freaking Republican....it just shows how narrow-minded your point of view is.

[Eleanors38]

94. Welcome, but are you responding to the right poster?

[zabet]

98. Yes...

You stated to another poster about hunters = conservatives and 'welcomed them to that group'.....so...I said add me to it too. Because claiming all hunters are republicans or conservatives is perpetuating a fallacy to support yyour beliefs and opinions. Lot of registered, active and voting Democratic huners where I live. Heck they even have the gall to ride around during hunting season with their gun in a rack in the cabs of their trucks.
Of course the previous sentence was facetious sarcasm...since I evidently have to clarify every word I post.

[EX500rider]

99. He/she said "conservation groups"-not conservative n/t

[zabet]

100. my bad then....

My apologies. Should not read so fast on tiny mobile screen. Still, I was mistaken.

[Eleanors38]

17. Nah, plan things well, and you can come in at under $2/lb. for venison.

The key is to be a bit of a loud mouth at parties and talk up hunting. Some will drift away like you broke wind, but there are always some folks who are into the honest way to kill and eat (we ALL do that). From there, you might get invited. There's $2,000+ in expenses eliminated right off the bat.

[RomneyLies]

52. I call BULLSHIT

I guarantee, not ALL hunters eat what they fucking kill.

[bobclark86]

79. Yeah, they don't eat coyotes...

which are stringy and nasty, but are usually shot for other reasons (like, getting in the henhouse, or finding a rabid one in your barn like I did in high school). Hunters who suck and lose their animals after they shoot them also obviously don't eat them.

Deer, on the other hand, are generally eaten, as are ducks, squirrels, pheasants, grouse, feral pigs and even bear.

Then there's the charitable donations: Venison Donation Coalition.

[Eleanors38]

95. Got data? I and all my friends who hunt eat their game...

There are some hunters who do not eat such animals as coyotes, but kill them because of deprivation, but these hunters hardly constitute the bulk of hunters.

I get 2 deer a yr, and plan on getting 2 next yr. Let me know, and I'll see if I can arrange to send you some venison.

[RomneyLies]

96. A picture is worth a thousand data points

Trophy hunting is rampant, and morally abhorent, IMO.

[Eleanors38]

101. So now it's TROPHY hunting exotics? Football & moving goal posts, 'tis the season.

My "trophies" are whitetail deer and the occasional turkey, which I consume and even gift out to some veggie restaurant workers. Next you'll be posting pics of blue whales!

'Shoulda had some of my venison chili on new years eve.

[RomneyLies]

102. Trophy hunting happens in the US

You also have wolf hunting.

The person moving goal posts is YOU. The statement was not ALL hunters eat what they kill. I have PROVED that point and now you want to move the goal posts.

[Eleanors38]

16. Make sure you use the lightest grain bullet...

Also, practicing with a .22 & cheap ammo will let you bust the flinching problem. .30-06s do boot you. I use a .270; same can, but 130 grain bullet. Kick is not too shabby. But yours is a great hunting round.

[NutmegYankee]

46. It was passed to me from family.

The flinching problem was the hard part to break. Also, to re-sight precisely after each reload (bolt action).

[Eleanors38]

74. Make sure stock-to-action screws are tight, sight(s) are tight

including mounts (if you have a scope). An old scope may be defect. internally. Consider a shock-absorbing boot, and recoil-reducing ammo (Remington has a wide selection). And make sure the rifle's dimensions fit you, and your posture is good. Numerous used books on these subjects.

Man! The size of deer in NY!

[NutmegYankee]

75. I had some friends look at it for me before use.

My expertise has been pistol competition, so it was a new learning curve for rifles.

[sir pball]

66. If it took you that much to get "comfortable"

I'd say you should seriously think about trading it in on a .243, sentimental value be damned...it took me <100 to get into a steady-fire rhythm with a .300 Magnum. Then again I was already a serious shooter and knew what to expect, but still. That level of exposure tells me you still probably aren't entirely comfortable with the recoil and will never be - that's not a bad thing, '06 can be a pretty solid thump. If you haven't actually taken game with it yet, you might unexpectedly flinch and miss at best, take something awful like a gutshot at worst. Food for thought..

[NutmegYankee]

67. I did get comfortable. I just had no rifle skills when starting.

Some fellow hunter friends helped me get very proficient with it.

[sir pball]

68. Fair enough

I'd just hate to see things go horribly wrong for a whitetail..

[NutmegYankee]

69. Understood.

A clean kill was important to me. That's why I really practiced until I had it down and could repeatedly hold a tight pattern at 200 Yards.

[sir pball]

71. Good man!

(or woman!) I've seen far too many yahoo "hunters" that think "I gots me a TWENTY FOUR POWER SCOPE! I can hits a deer at a MILE!"...I literally knew a guy who had never hunted before, wanted to come along one day with his "new rifle"...shows up with a freakin .338 Win Mag! For whitetail in CT! Thankfully he was smart enough that we were able to talk him down. Firing a full-bore round helped, too

[Scuba]

86. Call bullshit on that crap. I'm a lifelong deer hunter. I've taken one at ~ 200 yards ...

... and several dozen at 50 yards or less, sometimes way less.

There is no reason to try to take game at ultra-long ranges, and trying to do so is both foolish and contrary to the principles of fair chase/clean kill.

[sir pball]

91. Long-range hunting isn't that new,

The 270 was developed in the '20s for elk out West at 400+ yards. The problem I'm seeing is the whole "tacticool" movement spillng over even into "traditional" hunting, yahoos running around with accurized rifles and pricey glass thinking that alone will give them the skill to take game at distance. Just because your rifle can shoot 1/3" doesn't mean you can shoot 1/3".

Most of my deer have been inside of 50 yards as well, but I have taken one at a hair over 300 yards - at my girlfriend's dad's farm in north Louisiana, on a clear day, shooting off the rest in the blind, across a sorghum field that showed the wind perfectly, with a heavy-barreled 300 Magnum, mil-dot scope, rangefinder, and handloads of which I knew exact ballistics. And at the time I lived in upstate NY where I didn't need obscenely expensive licenses to own a bolt-action rifle and could get to a range every weekend, ringing the gongs at 250 yards. In other words, a good bit of skill and the luck for excellent conditions came together for a responsible shot. I haven't fired a round in almost a year, no way would I try that again without some serious practice

Point being, it's perfectly reasonable and ethical to take game at range IF one is willing to spend the time and money to become a competent marksman first - but most guys I know who go for whitetails aren't really into shooting as a sport and have no business taking a shot at more than 100 yards, if that. At least the vast majority of them realize this.

[slackmaster]

8. I got 40 rounds of 6.5x55 Swedish for Christmas

Ammo and Sudafed should both be unregulated.

[madinmaryland]

18. So should cocaine and mj. nt

[Eleanors38]

19. Think 24th Amendment (and a few others). Jim Crow is a crappy precedent...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_tax_(United_States)

[loli phabay]

20. whats a reasonable amount of ammo. i fire around five hundred 40 cal a week in practice

Then perhaps another five hundred in 5.56 a month on my rifles then a lots of slugs and buckshot as well. Not to mention. 22 around the yard. I probuably shoot more than most but i know competitive shooters who dwarf me.

[RomneyLies]

22. 100 rounds per month maximum

No more except with increasing taxes on each round and increasing scrutiny on each purchase.

[former-republican]

24. Never in my life have I seen someone so clueless about firearms yet still claims

he use to hunt and shoot guns.

[RomneyLies]

26. Oh I understand all about weapons

I'd rather see you have to jump through so many hoops to get your 500 rounds per month it makes you pissed off and takes forever than see 20 dead kids from morons who want AR-15s.

I never needed more than one round to take down any deer.

I never needed more than ten rounds to site in any deer season.

Open sites, Ruger .30-06.

[former-republican]

29. You know all about firearms?

You said max you should be able to buy is 100 grains of powder a month

How many grains of powder is in 1 round of 30-06 ?

Then you said the max you should be able to buy of rounds is 100 a month.

I don't think you know as much as you think you know.

[RomneyLies]

30. Look at the timing on the posts

Perfectly willing to go 100 rounds per month max until the "reload" argument was raised. the vast majority (over 99.999% in my view) of those who would reload are of no concern to me because they are far more likely to be responsible than most others. But it HAD to be brought up.

Once the gun huggers push back, my deal becomes worse, thus 100 grains per month instead of 100 rounds per month regardless.

Want to try for 50 grains per month?

On edit: Look to my first post in this thread where I stated it would be a start, which is all it would be. We need HARSH gun laws. Hoipefully we can someday repeal the second amendment though I know it will not happen in my lifetime just as the 14th amendment didn't happen in the lifetimes of so many abolitionists.

[former-republican]

35. I guess anything can work in fantasy land

[RomneyLies]

36. That's what the pro-slavery people told Frederick Douglass.

One day the second amendment will be repealed. Not in my lifetime, but one day.

It serves no purpose whatsoever in a modern world other than to facilitate mass murder.

[former-republican]

44. There's not going to be a law on limiting rounds for shooters

As long as there's hunting and target shooting in the world it's going to stay as it is.

If the world changes to the point where there's no crime , no hunting , no violence of any sort.

Then you might see it , by then we will be colonizing other planets.
And smokeless powder firearms will be something people might see in museums.

[RomneyLies]

45. Keep on hoping

You are on the wrong side of history.

One day, it will change, with any luck in YOUR lifetime.

My lifetime is so close to an end and I've already seen the first African American president. I hold no hopes of seeing the change with these damned guns in my lifetime, but I will do EVERYTHING I can in the time I have left to make sure YOU see it in YOUR lifetime.

[Travis_0004]

32. The reason people don't agree with you is because this law solves nothing

Even if your law worked, it would only take 2 months to have 200 rounds. In Virginia Tech, 174 rounds were fired, so if somebody wanted to go on a mass shooting, they could do it in 31 days. (In VT, most of the mags also only held 10 rounds).

Most other mass shootings less than 100 rounds are fired, so this law accomplishes nothing. Plus, its not that unusal for people to keep extra ammo on hand. I have about 300 rounds of 9mm in my safe, simply so I don't have to buy ammo before I go to the shooting range.

You are free to suggest stupid laws, but don't get upset when somebody says they are stupid.

[RomneyLies]

33. Same argument holds for Sudafed and Meth

Yet the law still proves to have an effect.

[bobclark86]

80. Tell that to the NINE meth labs popped

this year in my very rural county. Oh, and the busts didn't even scratch the surface.

[loli phabay]

31. doubt you will get your wish. if it looked like it i would just stock up

Already got a couple of years worth set by as it is.

[RomneyLies]

34. Gun nuttery knows no bounds, I guess

[loli phabay]

37. no its called practice same as i practice my fly casting at the start of the season

[RomneyLies]

38. I envision a day when no civilian may hold arms.

Just as Frederick Douglass envisioned a day whe no man would own another man.

[loli phabay]

39. well you cast your vote for it and ill cast my vote against it thats the way a democracy works

[RomneyLies]

40. Yep, black people were 3/5 of a human being for more than four score and seven years

I know for a fact it won't happen in my lifetime, but it WILL happen.

[loli phabay]

42. okay no idea the relevance other than society changes but thats self evident

I think its more likely in the future we will all have phasers but in the meantime i will keep going to the range.

[RomneyLies]

43. Enjoy the range for now.

My hope is that it will be illegal in YOUR lifetime.

Mine is too close to an end for the hope that it will happen before the ending.

[jberryhill]

58. Good. Do you practice fly casting in your home?

Tell you what... You can store and use an unlimited amount of ammunition in your locker at the range (or maintain an account with the range for fungible ammunition).

You can also buy and consume as much as you want... At the range.

How's about them apples?

[loli phabay]

61. dosent help me hunt meat or protect live stock though

I think i will vote and work to be able to keep my firearms and you can can work on getting them off of knownncriminals first.

[jberryhill]

72. Having linear discussion issues?

The objections noted this far are about practice, sighting in, etc. If you actually follow a discussion and can think about more than one thing at a time, then it would occur to you that having access to an unlimited supply in one place, does not imply or require zero access in another place.

You do not need 500,000 rounds in your house, and you are not going to persuade me that you need 500,000 rounds in your house.

Of course, you would not accept a limit of 500,000 rounds in your house, since your point is that you need an infinite supply at home.

[sir pball]

70. Per week per caliber, maybe.

When I carry, I make it a point to fire at least 100 rounds a week in practice. Anything less should be criminally irresponsible. Seriously - I'm a proponent of mandatory practice sessions signed off by the rangemaster for CCW holders.

[RomneyLies]

21. It would be a start. n/t

[lynne]

25. People would make their own.

And it's fairly easy to do.

[jberryhill]

55. Okay, what do you have to buy to do that?

Because the restrictions on Sudafed are not about Sudafed. They are about what people make at home out of it.

Who makes their own gunpowder? Primers? Brass? Shells?

[samsingh]

28. kick

[WillyT]

41. K & R !!!

[X_Digger]

49. Did you know that ammo used to be registered?

From 1968 to 1986, dealers kept a 'bound book' of every bullet sold.

The head of the ATF had this to say about it..

"The Bureau and the Treasury Department have recognized that recordkeeping requirements for ammunition have no substantial law enforcement value."

http://harrislawoffice.com/content/areas_of_practice/federal_firearms/legislative_history/FOPA%20House%20Report%2099-495.pdf

[Jack Sprat]

50. Nyquil and Benedryl Sinus as well. lol. nt

[AldoLeopold]

51. Hell yah [phone]

[daschess1987]

62. Right on!

Stealing that.

[mainer]

63. If you want to shoot a thousand rounds, do what they do in Switzerland

go to the gun range, where they'll issue you the ammo for target shooting. We can make it no limits, as long as it's used right there.

[jberryhill]

73. +1

[Coyote_Tan]

97. Some of us don't shoot at the range...

We have this nifty place called "the Nevada Desert" and thus there is no range mommy or daddy to pass out rounds.

[obamanut2012]

64. Meth is worse since regulating Sudafed

And requiring law-abiding citizens to show ID to buy a LEGAL product.

Ingredients are brought in illegally through Mexico, mainly into NM and Utah, where they get distributed throughout the US.

Sudafed isn't a good analogy to use, because it hasn't stopped the product from the hands of drug makers and narcotics, only made it more difficult for law-abiding allergy sufferers to get. Including me.

I think it is ridiculous we have to wait in line and have our ID approved and sales entered into a national database to buy NON SCRIPT allergy meds.

[Ibisa]

77. We've added drain cleaner and caustic chemicals to our ID/signature required list

They added more red tape for household stuff in IL. Seriously, this has got to stop at some point. Am I going to need a government escort everywhere I go? It is starting to look like it.

[MissMillie]

65. I had to provide proof of age

to buy Alka Seltzer Plus Cold Medicine.

surprised me.

[Romulox]

76. Hey. We DO treat allergy sufferers like Sex Offenders, but we licked that meth problem!

Oh, wait, no we didn't. We didn't even make a dent. :damn:

[geckosfeet]

78. I don't have a problem with any of that except a "legal limit".

Who gets to decide? What about reloading supplies and equipment?

Also - what criteria do authorities use to decide "when appropriate". And don't kid yourself. It will be FBI and CIA doing the bulk of the investigating. This would have to be a federal database. Possibly restricting access to local authorities. On second thought, I am not so sure that this is a good idea.

That's the problem with simplistic sloganeering - it looks good at first glance, but when you actually think about it for longer than a second the holes start appearing.

[Scuba]

83. You're right. Much cleaner to just repeal the 2A and ban all sales...

Which is exactly what we're going to get if the NRA and other gun owners remain completely intransigent on trying to rein in the gun deaths in this country. The backlash will go far beyond what is reasonable and necessary.

[geckosfeet]

85. Good luck with that.

on edit: so much for being reasonable

[Care Acutely]

87. K & R

[rl6214]

88. I don't think sudafrd is protected by the constitution

[hughee99]

90. I can only take 1 sudafed at a time. I can't even imagine

how long it would have taken my grandfather to teach me to shoot (accurately) if we went to the range, fired one bullet each day, and went home.