The President clearly stated that Social Security had NOTHING to do with The Deficit!

[bvar22]

You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their rhetoric, promises, or excuses.
[font size=5 color=green]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]

[leftstreet]

1. LOL

DURec

[Fumesucker]

2. Reagan was supremely comfortable around ponies

And I understand he was fond of peas too.

[zbdent]

4. Just not world peas ...

[rhett o rick]

3. It still can be a bargaining chip. nm

[bvar22]

9. Isn't that like Daddy gambling with the Rent Money?

Push it into the pot enough times,
and one day, it doesn't come back.

Famous Last Words:
"But it looked like a sure WIN!"


The Untouchable 3rd rail of the Democratic Party,
the "Touch This and You DIE" cornerstone of the modern Democratic Party,
has been reduced to Just-Another-Chip in the Big Game.

The Rubicon has been crossed.
What once was taboo,
is no longer.

In and of itself, THAT represents a HUGE step toward the Conservative Right.
It doesn't matter if Daddy wins THIS time,
the precedent has been set.

The precedent established by the New Democrat Centrist Party:
Social Security WILL be On-the-Table NOW,
and in every future Budget or Deficit negotiation,
until it is GONE.






You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their rhetoric, promises, or excuses.
[font size=5 color=green]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]

[Curmudgeoness]

13. ^^^This^^^

Your summation of the problem is excellent. It is true that, now that the genie is out of the bottle, it will not go back in. This will happen, whether it is today or tomorrow....they have cooked our goose.

[Oilwellian]

28. Bvar...

That cuts to the chase.

[rhett o rick]

33. The Rubicon has been crossed. Well said. nm

[sabrina 1]

5. And John McCain just stated this about SS:

"CPI has to be off the table because it's not a winning argument to say benefits for seniors versus tax breaks for rich people," said Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.). "We need to take CPI off the table -- that's not part of the negotiations -- because we can't win an argument that has Social Security for seniors versus taxes for the rich."

The world is upside down. President Obama just stated the opposite, he said he was willing to put Chained CPI on the table because it will 'strengthen SS'.

I didn't even have anything to drink, but shouldn't it be the Dem President saying what McCain said, and McCain saying what the Dem President said?


Now Republicans will claim they 'saved SS from Dem cuts'. Is this the nth dimensional chess we keep hearing about?

[ProSense]

6. Well, that's true

"Now Republicans will claim they 'saved SS from Dem cuts'. Is this the nth dimensional chess we keep hearing about?"

...if you want to make heroes out of Republicans. I mean, McCain was pulling the proposal that Republicans made: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022098800

Senate "fiscal cliff" negotiations hit major setback over GOP demands that it include chained-CPI
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022097970

Reaganomics was/is a failure
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022096027

[sabrina 1]

14. No, I don't want to make heroes of the vile Republican Party. Nor would I ever

give them an opportunity, as was handed to them this time, to be able to make such a claim.

It is pretty infuriating to have leaders who hand them opportunities like this and make Democrats look bad after all the fighting we have done to try to get the truth out about Republicans.

I am not surprised this happened, they were in a corner IF we had not offered the Chained CPI. This is their out. Had they only been offered the tax cuts for the Middle Class they would have to take a stand against that alone. NOW they can blame the Dems 'attack on seniors'. Please tell me what the hell kind of strategy this was? I have been asking for a week and it has turned out just as I thought it would but kept hearing 'how brilliant it is to offer them SS cuts' NO one answered my legitimate question about that claim, I really, really sincerely wanted to know since I just could not see it.

[ProSense]

17. Seems like

"NOW they can blame the Dems 'attack on seniors'."

...you're the one blaming the Dems. They never agreed to it, and McCain is pulling the GOP's proposal. Accept the facts.

[sabrina 1]

20. The president proposed it and reiterated it this morning on national TV.

McCain took the opportunity handed to him and rejected cuts to SS. What kind of game is this that handed such an opportunity to McCain?

Do you ever admit when this president is wrong or do you always try to blame everyone else? He was WRONG. Even Repubs knew it, especially since we have been calling them too for the past few weeks. The president ignored our requests and even went so far as to say he was ignoring his base, boasted about it, as if that was a good thing.

Do NOT blame me for this president does. I wanted him to do what McCain just did, because I care about this party. He chose not to listen to his base as he stated. That is HIS choice and mine is to say what I think of this terrible strategy for this Party.

[ProSense]

29. Fiscal Cliff Talks Resume After GOP Caves On Social Security Cut

Fiscal Cliff Talks Resume After GOP Caves On Social Security Cut
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022099669

"I wanted him to do what McCain just did, because I care about this party."

You wanted the President to cave?

[plethoro]

26. That was Republican Pawn takes Democratic Rook.....nft

dddddddddd

[DevonRex]

7. Bvar it is over.

It was over before the plan B vote. I have no clue why y'all dragged it back up again. Chained CPI was pulled off the table when Boehner rejected it. Period. End of story. No second bites at the apple.

[bvar22]

12. Please try to keep up.

[font size=3]"But David, as you know, one of the proposals we made was something called Chain CPI, which sounds real technical but basically makes an adjustment in terms of how inflation is calculated on Social Security. Highly unpopular among Democrats. Not something supported by AARP. But in pursuit of strengthening Social Security for the long-term I'm willing to make those decisions."[/font]--- President Obama, Meet-the-Press, 12/30/2012

Does THAT sound like "Period. End of story. No second bites at the apple" to you?

If this were the first time Obama has offered cuts to Social Security,
you might have a point,
but this is NOT the first time.

Rep. Conyers: Obama Demanded Social Security Cuts--Not GOP
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Rep-Conyers-Obama-Demand-by-Jeanine-Molloff-110729-352.html


It seems like a habit every time Budget Negotiations and Debt Ceilings come around.
The precedent of putting Social Security On-the-Table has been established....
by a "Democratic" President.

Besides, it is educational to compare the Present with the Past
to get an idea of How Far We Have Come.
Doan cha think?



[font color=firebrick size=3][center]"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."
--- Paul Wellstone[/font][/center]
[center][/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center][/font]

[font size=5 color=firebrick]Solidarity![/font]

[KoKo]

16. Thanks bvar22. Obama has said repeatedly he would do things that "even Democrats would be unhappy

with." I don't know why his message that he repeats isn't understood. Or, perhaps it is by some Democrats and they are fine with it.

But, for some Democrats to be "fine with it" isn't by any means all Democrats and this will cause a party split severe somewhere down the road if Democrats need to suffer more pain by Bush/Cheney/Third Way/Wall Street Democrats.

Interesting times ahead.

[bvar22]

25. He "campaigned" against cuts to Social Security.

We NOW have a Democratic President who is measurably to the Conservative RIGHT of Ronald-fucking-Reagan.
You are correct.
Some people here are just FINE with that.

[KoKo]

31. From his Own Mouth to the Ears that Will Not Hear. A great listen from Obama in his OWN WORDS...

[sabrina 1]

15. Maybe because the President stated this morning, falsely as we all know,

that the Chained CPI will 'strengthen SS' and that he was willing to 'offer it up' even though 'it is unpopular' with his base.

But Republicans have turned it down, now claiming to be the ones who saved SS from cuts because they were unwilling to take a deal that would cut benefits to SS.

So please explain how we won this? Was the president lying? I never though of him as dishonest, do you?

And now McCain looks like the hero who saved SS from the evil Dems who were more than willing to cut SS benefits. This is the chess game we keep hearing about? Our party now looks like the bad guys and we have turned the vile Republicans into the saviors of SS?

Disgusting, it's as if someone is trying to destroy the Dem Party.

[KoKo]

19. Destroy the Dem Party on the backs of Dems who've already suffered the most from these policies.

Why would this be?

The answer is the turn of the Dem Party under the DLC (which sadly I at one time supported along with many other Dems as we saw ourselves in disarray after Reagan and partly before because of Vietnam and the Women's Movement and Civil Rights Support.

Whatever....some Dems know this and the History. As you do.

[DearHeart]

24. Exactly!! Now the Republicans can look like the SAVIORS of the SENIORS!!

SS and Chained CPI should have NEVER been put on the table! Big MISTAKE and EPIC FAIL!! But, we "wishy-washy Lefties" just didn't get what the President was trying to do. You know, we didn't know what he was trying to do because it NEVER MADE SENSE to me and many other "Liberals". So much for multi-dimensional chess!!

[No Compromise]

8. good one, lol, I totally believed you and was so happy to read it

[Curmudgeoness]

10. LOL. Got me.

Incredible......Reagan would be thrown out of the Republican party of today.

I also remember Reagan saying that deficits don't matter. The times they are a-changing.

[sabrina 1]

18. Lol, he'd be thrown out of the Dem party also. Looks like we had many here

excusing cuts to SS over the past few weeks, not to mention the President who reiterated his willingness to do so today. Republicans however, have taken SS cuts off the table. Can you believe we are in this position where our Party has been made to look like the party that would cut SS benefits for seniors, that we handed Repubs a chance to pretend they are the 'good guys'? I can't believe what just happened here.

[Curmudgeoness]

27. I agree that it will be something that can be used against us

when the GOP starts talking about the Dems willing to "cut SS". The world is upside down.

I have also seen all the excuses here, and I have been nauseated by them. I guarantee that I was not one of them....I am beginning a re-evaluation of my political affiliation. If it is anything like my re-evaluation of belief in god, it will be a long process before I actually give up....but when a Dem president presides over any damage to SS, I may be done. I never thought I would see the day. I have heard the arguments that this is just a chess game, but it looks to me as if we have already lost the game, maybe not today, but tomorrow or the next day.

[bvar22]

35. It WILL come back to bite us.

It will be a lot like having Bush-the-Lesser smirk into the cameras and say,
"Well, The Democrats voted for it too" when questioned about the wisdom of invading Iraq.

[OnyxCollie]

11. K&R. nt

[Demo_Chris]

21. I guess Reagan was far too "progressive" for today's Democratic party

That crazy leftist would probably grant amnesty to illegal immigrants as well.

[Autumn]

22. Yet President Obama offered a cut to SS

I still hate Ronald Reagan.

[bvar22]

30. I agree.

If we wanted to protect our Social Security,
we SHOULD have elected THIS guy instead of Obama:

[JimDandy]

23. That's a good Gotcha! n/t

[KoKo]

32. Indeed........... n/t

[WillyT]

34. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!