Since Sherrod Brown and Bernie Sanders voted for it

[Tom Rinaldo]

I am inclined to believe that this was the best deal we could get with this President, with this Congress, at this time. Assuming the House passes it, a lot of major questions and decisions just got kicked down the road, but not very far down that road. "The game" is heading into extra innings. The final score remains undetermined.

[JustAnotherGen]

1. Maybe

We are going to have to do it in inches. Next year the thresholds drop to 300 and 350. The next year we get something solid?

[Tom Rinaldo]

3. The threshold will not drop again while Republicans hold the House

That is a big downside aspect of this deal - the leverage for Democrats to raise the tax rates just expired - untill midnight Republicans couldn't block that from happening without a vote that Democrats supported.

Remember earlier in the fiscal cliff "negotiations" when Boehner offered to accept "800 Billion" in new but unspecified revenues? None of that would have come from raising tax rates under Boehner's offer. Republicans hate raising tax rates and now they no longer can be forced to. The focus now shifts onto the old Romney tax (non)plan. We are back to "closing loopholes" and "limiting deductions" as ways to raise new revenues - all of which is subject to tax lawyer manipulations of course. How much new revenues Democrats will be able to get out of Republicans now is uncertain - but whatever it is for the most part will not as purely be targetted to hit only the upper upper middle class and the wealthy as what raising tax rates on the rich provided for.

[rgbecker]

2. I'm calling it a win for the Democrats and Obama.

1. No Spending cuts for the GOP.

2. Increase in taxes for income over $400,000 including cap gains and interest.

3. No increase in taxes for "Middle Class." (You will be paying the standard FICA tax again though).

4. Debt ceiling spending cut talk put off for 2 months.

5. Unemployment insurance extended.

6. Child and tuition tax credits extended for 5 years.

7. Medicare not cut, payments to providers not cut.

8. No Chained CPI for anybody.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/01/01/us/the-mcconnell-biden-plan.html?hp

I will continue to leave my Obama sticker on the car.

[NMDemDist2]

4. Tom Harkin voted against

that worries me

[Honeycombe8]

5. Some people don't want to compromise. nt

[LWolf]

17. Some people don't know the difference

between compromise and bending over the table.

[Honeycombe8]

18. Here's a riddle:

What's the difference between the two following statements?

"I know what should be done, and what is right. I will not compromise."

"I know what should be done, and what is right. I will not compromise."


Answer: The first is by a tea partier...the second is by a Democratic Party member.

That is not how a government is run. Compromise is the name of the game. It's a bitter pill, but it must be swallowed, so the country can move on.

[LWolf]

19. That's not a riddle.

That's rationalization.

"I know it's wrong to cheat, but she'll/he'll never find out." "Just one more. I'll quit tomorrow." "As long as it LOOKS okay, it doesn't matter that the foundation is rotten."

Putting the Republican wish list on the table, and leaving the Democratic wish list OFF the table, before the process of compromise even begins...that's corrupt.

[Honeycombe8]

33. It is not true that the deal is the Republican wish list. It is a true compromise.

It's a decent deal for the Dems. No big cuts right now, no Social Security cpi change. And we got at least some sort of tax rate hike on the wealthy.

It's a worse deal for the Repubs, but it's okay for now. They didn't get most of what they wanted, but they got an increase of $200,000 in protected income (from $250k to $450k).

Now we can move on.

[LWolf]

36. It sounds like you are trying to say

that the Republican agenda was never on the table in this showdown, and that the agenda from the American left was.

That would be false.

You can pat yourself on the back that this deal isn't any worse, I guess.

I don't expect you to acknowledge that actually allowing agenda items from the American left on the table to begin with would lead to a more honest, authentic compromise.

[Honeycombe8]

37. We're past agendas. We're talking about the deal as agreed to.

Of COURSE every compromise is going to have a little of the left and a little of the right. Obama is not a dictator. Compromises WILL contain a little of both.

But I think the deal is not that bad. And it certainly isn't what the Republicans wanted, as evidenced by the few Republicans who voted for it. The Dems came out ahead on it.

Now we can move on to the next heat. This is how govt works, as far as I can tell. You come to a compromise, you pass it, and you move on. Things have got to get done in a govt. Until THIS group of Republicans, that's how things had worked in prior administrations.

If we win the House in 2014, things can be different. Until then, we're stuck compromising. Compromise is not a dirty word. It's the way democratic govts work.

[LWolf]

38. I thought we were talking about your riddle.

That's what I responded to, anyway. Your riddle about "compromise." My point stands.

If you want to talk about the deal as agreed to? My point still stands.

If everything from our side had been on the table, we'd have had more leverage to compromise with, and could have negotiated a better deal.

As long as DEMOCRATS limit what we can put on the table to begin with, we won't have honest, authentic compromise. Republican "compromise" will continue to be allowing us to hold on to a few things, instead of moving issues to the left.

[PatSeg]

20. Thank you

If one side gets everything it wants, that is NOT democracy. It is that "will not compromise" attitude that has brought us all this paralyzing gridlock. We have to be careful that we do not become that which we claim to oppose.

[BarackTheVote]

34. I understand, but

gerrymandering has made the Republican House illegitimate. Hand-picking your constituents based entirely on whether or not they will vote for you is not democracy, either.

[PatSeg]

35. Oh I agree with that

and I don't think the Republican demands in recent years have been reasonable or legitimate, but I know if we hold out for everything we want, we'll probably get nothing. That is the strategy the Republicans have been using to make sure President Obama is unsuccessful.

I'm not defending the Republicans' behavior, I'm defending the Democrats who actually want to accomplish something and in the process will have to make concessions that we think are wrong.

[Tom Rinaldo]

8. I respect his concerns - and I share them

I think Krugman nailed it in his current piece:

"So why the bad taste in progressives’ mouths? It has less to do with where Obama ended up than with how he got there. He kept drawing lines in the sand, then erasing them and retreating to a new position. And his evident desire to have a deal before hitting the essentially innocuous fiscal cliff bodes very badly for the confrontation looming in a few weeks over the debt ceiling.

If Obama stands his ground in that confrontation, this deal won’t look bad in retrospect. If he doesn’t, yesterday will be seen as the day he began throwing away his presidency and the hopes of everyone who supported him."

It will now take a Democratic House before tax rates on those earning more than $250,000 a year will ever go up again. Unless the tax lawyers who advice Democrats are very good indeed, any future revenue increases that get negotiated as part of deficit reduction will not fall as squarely on those who call well afford to pay more - and we do not yet know where the budget cutting knife is yet to slice.

[chimpymustgo]

22. This. And we now have NO leverage for upcoming negotiations during which social programs will be cut

HOw many times have we danced this dance????

[Doctor_J]

13. Word

See my reply 12.

[Dawgs]

6. I'll wait to hear what Brown and Sanders say about it. A vote does necessarily mean support. n/t

[Tom Rinaldo]

9. I think a vote in favor means what it means

Overall, they felt it better to accept rather than reject the deal. Lots can go into that decision, including a possible calculation that more would be lost than gained right now by opposing the President's position - since major future battles still loom on the near horizan.

[Dawgs]

10. Like I said. I'll wait to hear what they say about it.

There are many reasons politicians choose to vote a certain way. Not all of them are for obvious reasons.

[Doctor_J]

14. At some point THEY have to draw a line in the sand for Obama

instead of the other way around.

[OKNancy]

7. Did a little googling to find out who the "8" were

Five Republicans and three Democrats voted against the bill: Sens. Michael Bennet (D-Colo.), Tom Carper (D-Del.), Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), Tom Harkin (D-Iowa), Mike Lee (R-Utah), Rand Paul (R-Ky.), Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) and Richard Shelby (R-Ala.).

Sens. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.), Mark Kirk (R-Ill.) and Frank Lautenberg (D-N.J.) missed the vote.

[Doctor_J]

12. Carper and Harkin voted NAY

that's a bad sign.

[karynnj]

16. Why Carper, who is a pretty conservative Democrat?

It does not seem to be because of something that affects DE, as Coons was a yes.

I watched the Finance committee hearings on the healthcare bill and he seemed to be one of the Democrats that we needed to worry about - especially if it involved the drug companies. He certainly was not a beacon of progressiveness! (In fact, Harkin was the only progressive to vote against it.) I don't get Bennett of CO either.

[Panasonic]

21. I do. Bennet is a DINO

We tried to get rid of him, replacing it with a bit more progressive Democrat by the name of Andrew Romanoff.

He'll be primaried again in 2016 - as Bennet continues not to be our favorite Democratic Senator from Colorado.

See his past history with the DPS Supervisor position where he began screwing everyone and their mothers.

[Autumn]

25. From your mouth to Gods ear, I want Bennet gone.

It always irritates me when people say to work for more progressives if we want Obama to get things done. We did, and Obama came here and campaigned for a DINO against Romanoff.

[karynnj]

32. I do remember the race between Bennett and Romanoff

So, you think this is an effort on his part to be able to fend off an attack from the left?

[Robb]

15. Hm. Wonder why Bennet voted nay. He's a pretty savvy dude on financial matters.

[Panasonic]

23. Ha. Don't make me laugh.

He is a DINO - big time DINO.

You need to check his history with Denver Public Schools and his mismanaged funding scandal that was widely underreported.

He's no financial wizard - just another scumbag that we tried to primary with Andrew Romanoff - a much better choice for the Senate than Bennet - remember that Ritter was also saddled with a scandal and was one-term governor? Well, this is his pick after Salazar resigned for Sec of Interior. Haven't approved of the pick - still don't.

[Robb]

26. *Now* I recognize you from DU2.

How's the new account working out for you?

[Panasonic]

29. Just fine, as long as I don't advocate for 3rd party.

Skinner, Elad, and Earlg knows who I am.

As long as I behave, I'll be fine.

I did quit OET.

For the record: I did vote for Obama/Biden last November.

[Robb]

30. Well, good for you I suppose.

[Autumn]

27. He's also a rude jerk.

[Doctor_J]

11. Sort of

Sanders & Brown also signed the ACA eventually, but not until AFTER Bernie had on many occasions pleaded with the president to fight for a public option, then expressed supreme disappointment at Obama's capitulation.

This is as good a deal as we can get with this president...."

Sad but true. Let's hope he doesn't piss it away at the next confrontation. My "hope" from 2008 is pretty much gone.

[chimpymustgo]

24. Ah, healthcare. Notice how these dramas all have the same ending? Tragic.

How do me manage to give away our negotiating advantage EVERY time?

[still_one]

28. most likely you are correct /nt

[octoberlib]

31. There's a video of Harkin's speech before the vote on HuffPo

Won't let me embed. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/01/tom-harkin-fiscal-cliff_n_2392609.html