Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

jimmy the one

(2,800 posts)
Sun Mar 22, 2026, 01:15 PM 20 hrs ago

Why there is an E after the U in Robt Muellers name

Robert Muller's proper name in German was spelled with an umlaut over the U, but only one E.
This might be Muller with an umlaut if my copy and paste transfers the umlaut: Robert Müller.
Robert Muller of course died yday. RIP Herr Muller.

In German, an umlaut (oom lowt) is a diacritic which slightly alters the pronunciation of the 3 letters a, o, and u, as well as the couplet au. An umlaut is two dots atop the letter a, o, or u - one more dot than the similar dot above the English lower case I. The colon : would be an umlaut sideways, rotate 90 degrees for the umlaut.
The umlaut alters pronunciation by simply rounding the lips, like kissing mum or sister on the forehead, and then pronouncing the letters in English as saying the long a, long o, long u (pronounce the U as oo, not yoo). Do it now and you can detect a slight difference between the long English vowel and the umlauted vowel, though it sounds nearly the same with a tonality difference.
The umlauted German word Madchen (young girl) is thus close to Maid chen, rather than mad chen.
German Ostlich (easterly) rhymes close with toast lick. OL (oil) close with sole. Muller as moo ler.
The umlauted au is most famous in the German 'fraulein' where the umlauted au sound is like English ow, so close to Frow line - not froy line as some do. Fraulein is also a young lady.

My iPad does not have umlaut capability, which was essentially the reason for the added E after the 3 vowels a, o, and u, as I will explain.
About the 1960's, perhaps earlier, American and British typewriters and keyboards also did not have the capability to type an umlaut. So when umlauted words and names such as Muller appeared in English newspapers and many documents, the umlaut was perforce missing, German words mispronounced, and Muller was pronounced as a short U, rhyming with duller.
A few umlauted words such as Uber were pronounced more properly as oober, surely due the well known song 'Deutschland uber alles'.
The Germans became so perplexed at hearing their umlauted words being mispronounced so frequently as short English vowels that they developed a strategy to correct the misperceptions.
They realized that by placing an E after the A, O, and U, of course easily done on typewriters, the English speaker would pronounce the 3 vowels as long rather than short, which is indeed a rule of thumb in English, though not absolute. Due, rue, sue, doe, hoe, foe, toe, aeleron, aerobics.
And thus the written German umlauted word would be pronounced more properly as a long vowel. That was the hope and desire!
Alas, over the years the E stratagem has tended to be disregarded at least in America, as evidenced by our general mispronouncing Muller, still as rhyming with duller.

10 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Why there is an E after the U in Robt Muellers name (Original Post) jimmy the one 20 hrs ago OP
The... 2naSalit 20 hrs ago #1
Good Lord... Fiendish Thingy 20 hrs ago #2
The umlaut doesn't induce rounding. Igel 19 hrs ago #3
Can I call you ... ? Bavorskoami 18 hrs ago #4
Thanks for the in depth insight jimmy the one 15 hrs ago #7
I disagree with two specific points in your guide, concerning o umlaut and a umlaut u, and a few other general points Emrys 13 hrs ago #9
Why are asteroids in the sky and... Dread Pirate Roberts 18 hrs ago #5
_ LudwigPastorius 18 hrs ago #6
Since your ipad does not have an umlaut, can you imagine the late nineteenth century? LeftInTX 15 hrs ago #8
Your iPad has an umlaut spinbaby 12 hrs ago #10

Fiendish Thingy

(23,071 posts)
2. Good Lord...
Sun Mar 22, 2026, 01:39 PM
20 hrs ago

Why does the Governor of California spell his name “Newsom” instead of the more popular (at least on DU) “Newsome”?

Why, when someone doesn’t win a game, election etc. they “lose” instead of the more phonetically logical “loose”?

These are just a few of my Favourite Things I never think about…

Igel

(37,516 posts)
3. The umlaut doesn't induce rounding.
Sun Mar 22, 2026, 02:02 PM
19 hrs ago

It induces fronting.

/ u / is rounded, high and back in the mouth. The IPA / y / is rounded, high, but front in the mouth. French < ou > v < u >.

Same for / o /, rounded, back, and mid versus the umlauted variety: both are rounded and mid, but the umlauted variety is fronted. French also has both phones.

/ a / is a bit different because the low vowel space is more constrained. You'd think the fronted or 'umlauted' version would be /ae/ (as a single glyph) but instead it's raised in most dialects into the phonetic space occupied historically by some mid-front unrounded vowel. Maybe it resulted in a (likely) push chain that caused speakers to merge the mid-front unrounded vowels to make space, maybe it merged with one of the unrounded front vowels.

Usually the German umlaut resulted from compensatory lengthening, so that the resulting vowel was lengthened and fronted. (We had lengthening in English from loss of final < e > (for want of a better representation), and in some cases it did affect the vowel quality and not just vowel length. In some cases the change was levelled, in some classes cut-syllable timing did the trick or tri-syllabic shortening overrode the outcome. But it's been a long time since I looked at English historical phonology; my German h.r. is much more recent.

How rounded front vowels are borrowed into other languages or how they change over time within a language varies in ways I can't explain and haven't always seen explained satisfactorily. Take "revue", with its / y / (same as umlauted < u &gt . In English it comes out as "you"; but in Czech it's "ee". "Revue" might be "ree-'vyue" in English, but it's clearly "'reh-vee" in Czech.

(But I'm a physic sciences high school teacher, so what do I know?)

Bavorskoami

(169 posts)
4. Can I call you ... ?
Sun Mar 22, 2026, 03:08 PM
18 hrs ago

... Ježek? or Hedgehog? (The subject line would not accept the "ž" when I previewed my reply)

Not too often one sees posts here referencing both German and Czech. My user name gives away something about me if you know them both.

Very good explainer on the German umlauted vowels.

Also thanks for the info on "revue" in Czech. I would have pronounced it like the German, and I think most Czechs would accept it coming from me, but good to know. Maybe I should have known because "menu" works the same (sounds like "meny&quot

jimmy the one

(2,800 posts)
7. Thanks for the in depth insight
Sun Mar 22, 2026, 06:27 PM
15 hrs ago

Thank you for the in depth insight, truly. I only wish I understood half of it!
I think in a previous occupation, you a linguist yes?
I had two years high school German and two years in college - two semesters I think. All we were taught was the rounded lips method for the umlaut. I think this is not the rounded you refer to, is it?
Do you agree with my pronunciation guide for a o u au?
As far as what we know, there are far more things in the world which we do not know, as opposed to what we do know. And that pertains to all the eight billion people in here. We only excel in what we study or learn from experience.
Latin I can pronounce well, tho I understand little of what I am saying. Erk. The mispronunciation of many Latin words and terms is annoying, such as Pontius Pilate, which was in his time, phonetically, Pone tee oose Pee lah tay...... E pluribus unum is >> aye 'ploo ree boose oo num.

So simply put, what is fronting and rounding. These will be new experiences.

Emrys

(9,094 posts)
9. I disagree with two specific points in your guide, concerning o umlaut and a umlaut u, and a few other general points
Sun Mar 22, 2026, 08:19 PM
13 hrs ago

You wrote:

German Ostlich (easterly) rhymes close with toast lick. OL (oil) close with sole.


No. Östlich is pronounced more like (clumsy attempts at non-IPA phonetic explanations ahead) erstlich (don't roll the r) or uhstlich; Öl is pronounced to rhyme with earl (again don't roll the r) or uhl.

You wrote:

The umlauted au is most famous in the German 'fraulein' where the umlauted au sound is like English ow, so close to Frow line - not froy line as some do. Fraulein is also a young lady.


No. Fräulein is definitely pronounced froyline. Without the umlaut, the au combination would sound like ow, as in the German word Maus (English mouse).

In medieval times (way before the timescale you mentioned), when the orthography (way of writing) of German was still evolving more quickly than it is nowadays, scribes used to write a superscript e after the vowel they wanted to modify. Over time, this developed into the umlauted letter forms as we know them. If a certain font nowadays doesn't include the umlauted versions, using, say, oe for ö is an alternative in German, though it can look a bit archaic.

In English nowadays, in the absence of the umlauted forms, the guidance is more often to substitute the un-umlauted form of the letter, though this can grate on anyone who knows German.

Other than that, listen to Igel.

Dread Pirate Roberts

(2,000 posts)
5. Why are asteroids in the sky and...
Sun Mar 22, 2026, 03:13 PM
18 hrs ago

hemorrohids are on you ass? Shouldn't it be the other way around?

LeftInTX

(34,206 posts)
8. Since your ipad does not have an umlaut, can you imagine the late nineteenth century?
Sun Mar 22, 2026, 06:38 PM
15 hrs ago

I knew alot of Muellers where I lived. We more or less pronounced it as a variation of "Miller". The "i" was softer with a lazy pronouncation as a opposed to Miller. That's how you could tell Miller from Mueller without seeing the name spelling. We didn't pronounce it Muller.

I'm not a phonics person by any means, so I'm probably not explaining this very well...

spinbaby

(15,387 posts)
10. Your iPad has an umlaut
Sun Mar 22, 2026, 09:30 PM
12 hrs ago

Just hold down the letter you want an umlaut on and choose the proper accent. I am typing this on an iPad: üäö. See?

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Why there is an E after t...