130 guns, 20,000 rounds of ammo found in foreclosed CT home

[TheCowsCameHome]

http://www.boston.com/news/local/connecticut/2013/01/05/cleaners-stumble-upon-guns-inside-conn-home/XEpTTBdXZNMrZM6BABe1qM/story.html

Lose the home foreclosure, but don't sell the weaponry?

Weird.

[krispos42]

1. Hoarder? n/t

[Walk away]

53. I think they prefer to call themselves "Collectors". nt

[krispos42]

73. Not selling when you can't make your house payment?

Hoarder.

[appleannie1]

2. Can buy guns but can't pay mortgage? And then just leaves them? Strange.

[Duckhunter935]

3. from the article

Bank representatives went to clean out the home before the occupant had cleared out his belonging when they stumbled upon the alarming cache, prompting them to call authorities to investigate.

Police dispatcher Tom Sevigny said on Saturday that an investigation showed the guns were legally registered to the resident. The grenade and mortar turned out to be inert.

[LP2K12]

4. This is why...

Limitations on the amount of ammo and firearms that can be legally owned and stored in a residence must exist. There's no need for any one person to have that much ammo or firearms.

Was this person building an army?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

7. Please enumerate...

...your idea for "limitations".


Bounce that Commissioner of the CT Dept. of Needs: http://www.ct.gov/ctportal/cwp/view.asp?a=843&q=489944#N
Oh!!! I see that they don't have one.

[LP2K12]

10. My numbers...

Let's say... 100 rounds per firearm.

I also believe there should be a limit of two firearms per home (not person in the home).

If you're using it for protection, it generally going to be loaded and in a safe. You're not going to have time to reload during a home invasion.

I believe if you want to stockpile it should be stored at an approved range.

Yes, I'm an owner.

[NutmegYankee]

15. What about collectors or sports shooters?

It's common for sport shooters to have firearms of various calibers for different competitions. I have both rimfire and centerfire calibers.

And what is an approved range? If you want to target shoot in CT you have to join a sportsman's club, and they don't have much for facilities.


At the end of the day, the man violated no law. That he had such a large collection was his choice and it obviously had no impact on anyone else. No one has listed a compelling reason to restrict the man's collection.

[LP2K12]

17. My father has a collection

that's about the size of the one they found and about the same amount of ammo. He has a plethora of expensive safes through the house that have humidity control and are bolted into the concrete foundation at the floor.

He's a sport shooter and he taught me to shoot. He's the reason I was on the rifle team in high school. He used to be an NRA member. He's also a certified instructor for CCL classes.

Last weekend we had this same discussion about what he believes needs to change. He agreed that there have to be limitations. Not everyone is going to agree and I understand that. My numbers are just that... mine. The discussion needs to be had to find some middle ground.

[NutmegYankee]

21. Fair enough.

I have a few pistols and a rifle, all but one passed down to me from family. Like you I grew up doing firearm sports.

I see this story as somewhat sensationalized, such as the focus on 20,000 rounds of ammo. It really makes a difference what kind of ammo. I have probably 2000 rounds of .22 LR alone, since the stuff comes in small boxes and was at one time less than $20 for 500. I bought a bunch in bulk back in 2008 as I heard the paranoid right wingers were driving ammo prices up, which they did. I don't find it worth it to reload the .22 ammo, so I just plink away at targets and dump the brass for recycling. Larger rounds I reload, so I probably only have about 200 max of those. It seems like a lot of rounds, but you know you use a lot in target shooting and .22 LR is so damn cheap it's dumb to not bulk up on it.

At the end of the day, if you don't harm others with your collection, I find it hard to justify interfering with it.

[overthehillvet]

107. Reload .22 rimfire???

I would really like to know how you do that. I've been reloading for decades and know of no one who reloads .22 rimfire ammo.

[NutmegYankee]

121. I don't reload it.

That's why I buy it in bulk. Perhaps I didn't make that clear enough.

[jmowreader]

145. That's because it can't be done

The primer charge is integral to the cartridge case. You can't get the old one off to put in a new.

[sir pball]

146. It CAN be done

Or so I've heard...but it's more or less entirely impractical except in direst times (involves using powdered matcheads as priming compound, spinning the shells in a drill, specialized presses and dies, so forth). Just some fun trivia.

[jmowreader]

147. If you're preparing for direst times, you don't want a .22

This is a little piece from the NRA's propaganda rag on what it takes to make a .22 rimfire round:

http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/Impossible-22-rimfire/

You would need, among other things...

the right priming charge chemicals
some ground glass to mix in with it (really!)
the right powder
the right lubricants

and on and on...this is one of the reasons 5.56MM NATO is so popular--you can reload those and kill more than just squirrels with it.

[RKP5637]

128. Yep, the problem is, it always gets emotional and laden with fear. Clear heads need

to prevail. And, there need to be limitations. And serious thought put into it, not the gut level emotional outbursts often from politicians using it for political gain and pro/con gun folks ... and those in between.

[LP2K12]

130. Agreed

[madrchsod]

151. another ex nra member

my father in law and i quit in the 80`s when the nra started pushing chinese ak`s as a sport rifle.

[former-republican]

25. What is an approved range?

A lot of shooters have their own property to shoot on.
Some rural places have no ranges close by.

You say you are a gun owner but I can tell you are not a shooter
if you think 100 rounds per firearm and 2 firearms per household should be the approved amount by our government.

[LP2K12]

28. I shoot plenty...

I just went to a gun show in Orlando today. Planning an outing to the range with some co-workers as well. Could say I probably go shooting at the least two weekends a month.

Also used my fair share of rounds in the military.

Again, all these items would need to be discussed, voted and agreed upon. A system to approve ranges could be put into place. If a range is no within the vicinity of the shooter and it's a rural area this could be noted during the background check and approval process.

My wife doesn't shoot. I do. What do I NEED more than two firearms in my HOUSEHOLD for?

Am I going to dual wield them when an intruder bursts through my front door? No. Let's get real.

2, 4, 6, 8, 10... It's still less than 130.

I can tell you I don't take every single firearm I own to the range at any given time.

Again, I'm open to compromise. However, I will say my views were drastically changed after the shooting of those children. I sat at work that day thinking of nothing but the fact that my oldest son could have been in that school and that his little brother and sister will be old enough to be in school as well.

[NickB79]

46. Variety is the spice of life

What do I NEED more than two firearms in my HOUSEHOLD for?

-A shotgun for bird hunting and home defense
-A .223 rifle for varmint hunting and target shooting
-A .22LR for small game hunting and target shooting
-A 9mm handgun for target shooting and home defense
-A revolver for big-game hunting
-A muzzle-loader for big-game hunting
-A .308 for big game hunting in open fields
-A .30-30 lever-action rifle for big game hunting in brushy/woody areas

Why should someone else have to limit the number of firearms they can own because you decided you didn't need more than two firearms?

[LP2K12]

47. I've also posted in other threads...

That a hunter who passes a verified hunter safety course and has a CCL could own a number of firearms over the set limit specifically for hunting.

Again, 2 was my number. I'm not saying it should be the final number. Heck, 8 is better than 130.

[former-republican]

65. Missed your post here but what about competitive shooting?

[LP2K12]

74. Yeah...

See, these are the items that pull me in two directions. I grew up sport shooting on the rifle team in high school. Someday, I hope to teach my children as well. Sport shooting is obviously going to require more rounds and possibly multiple firearms. So, in this case my ideas are horrible. I believe another poster was correct with the proposal that we regulate how the firearms and ammo are stored, but we don't regulate the amount owned/on hand.

[former-republican]

92. I started a thread a while back where I would like to see a federal law or at least

have every state pass a law where all firearms would have to be stored in a safe while the home owner is out.
Trigger or cable locks can easily be defeated . Make it tough for smash and grab burglars to steal a firearm.

Also make straw purchases 20 to life whether a crime was committed with the firearm or not.
You get caught you do heavy time. There's a lot of reasonable things that can be done.

[LP2K12]

103. I agree.

With those measures.

[reACTIONary]

61. Someone else should have to limit the number of firearms they can own...

...for reasons of public safety.

[Riftaxe]

86. Someone should limit the number of words the

filthy masses can say, it distracts for the wisdom of the aristocracy...

[reACTIONary]

102. Someone should limit the campaign contributions of the plutocracy...

...in order to allow the filthy masses their say.

[Riftaxe]

117. if then your zipped mate!

see you on the other side.

[former-republican]

57. Why are you mixing home defense with shooting?

You ask why someone would like to own more than 2 firearms and then you claim you are a shooter.
You said you don't take all your firearms to the range so I take it you own a few.

Do you feel the country is in danger because you own more than 2 and have more than 100 rounds of ammo at home?
You sound like a responsible gun owner.

I shoot clay , handguns , F class , F class open , and occasional 3 gun.
I deer hunt with a brush gun in thick woods then also hunt with a scoped rifle depending on the terrain .
I still hunt waterfowl , not as much now but still do on occasion.

I use more than 2 guns

[LP2K12]

70. You know...

I didn't feel like the country was in danger because of my firearms until the shooting in CT.

On one hand, my firearms are securely stored in two different safes. One being biometric. I guess part of me is saddened by that shooting.

Why?

My father and mother taught all of their children, I have five brother and sisters, to shoot at a young age.

I lived in a house with multiple firearms in multiple safes. I'd say around middle school I was taught how to access those safes in the event of an emergency.

The reason I'm saddened is you have this kid. I'll call him a kid. Who used his mother's firearms against her and a school. Yes, she was an end of the world type, but she also had, from what I've read, a decent shooting background.

So. Do I not trust my children like my parents did? Do I never give them access to the safe(s) or take them out shooting or hunting?

I think that's my problem here. I'm on the side of what-ifs and I get too emotional in the matter.

It's one of those... "Could my child grow up to do what other kids have done?"

So, I guess in that case I could just get rid of my firearms and not have a say in the matter, but then... what of other families?

I'm rambling now. The main point is I understand where you're coming from and it's discussion like these that help bring other like myself back down to earth.

I'm all ears.

[NickB79]

31. 100 rd per firearm? .22LR ammo is sold in 500-rd boxes at Walmart

In a box about half the size of a coffee can.

[LP2K12]

34. Numbers & laws...

Federal regulation could change the amount of ammo allowed to be sold per box. Again, these are my numbers. Packaging can change.

For example: CCI 22LR Copper Plated 36gr Hollow Point, 100ct
http://www.walmart.com/ip/CCI-22LR-Copper-Plated-36gr-Hollow-Point-100ct/16879790

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

35. My numbers:

"100 rounds per firearm" - a bit low multiply by 100.

"two firearms per home" - no.

You don't shoot much do you?

[LP2K12]

124. Yes...

I do. Read the entire thread. This question was asked previously.

It came down to what I as a gun owner am willing to give up and others aren't,

I also changed my position to regulating storage versus regulating the amount of ammo and firearms owned once someone made a suggestion about it.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

126. What's with...

...the "need" concept?

[LP2K12]

129. As a collector and shooter...

The concept of basing the numbers selected by regulations fit well with a need for them.

A hunter might need more than two firearms.

Someone only using them for home defense, in my opinion, doesn't need more than two.

This goes out the window when we hit collectors. They don't need 130 firearms, unless they have an admitted addiction to collecting them. I guess you could call it a need then.

Just my wording and my opinion. Not attempting to force it on others, it's just what I believe.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

136. Thanks

I wasn't sure where the numbers were coming from. I don't agree but my opinion is as valid as yours.

[LP2K12]

141. Yes, it is.

I'm also willing to have an opinion that is evolving as the conversation progresses. I don't expect anyone to do it my way.

[NickB79]

36. 2 firearms per home? Perfect reason to own an AR-15 then

You can have one gun receiver and just swap barrels in different calibers to hunt squirrels, rabbits, coyotes, deer, bear, and shoot targets. Hell, I think they even make a shotgun upper barrel for the AR-15 as well.

That's a good argument to buy an AR-15. I like the way you think

[NickB79]

52. I have a 3-yr old daughter

And I keep my firearms, especially my AR-15, securely locked up with trigger locks AND inside a gun safe when not in use.

But please, feel free to continue to mock the same responsible gun owners you've previously asked for support in addressing gun violence. I'm sure that will really help things along.

[NickB79]

41. And how would this prevent crimes, exactly?

I'm trying to figure out what purpose these regulations would serve, other than to piss off gun owners enough to give the GOP a new lease on life.

2 firearms and 100 rounds of ammo is more than enough to commit multiple mass shootings, so I fail to see how your proposed regulations would do anything to address gun violence.

[LP2K12]

45. The lady

in Ga who shot the intruder who found her in the crawlspace shot him 6 times according to reports. He drove away.

We all can agree that not every gun owner locked up their firearms and ammo correct?

So, if I am out of my house and I'm someone who has an AR-15 in a glass display case and 10,000 rounds for it in ammo box next to the case and someone breaks in and steals it.

I'd rather them have access to 100 rounds from me than 10,000.

*Sidenote - Yes, I know someone who keeps a loaded AR-15 in a glass case with about that much ammo near it.

Let's all just agree to disagree. Maybe we can discuss it over some target shooting?

[NickB79]

51. OK, I can understand where you're coming from

I have a 3-yr old in the house, so all my firearms are locked up at all times when not being taken to the range or out hunting. Sometimes I forget that there are far too many idiots out there that don't securely store their guns.

Might I suggest that it would be easier to pass regulations requiring secure storage of guns and ammo, rather than ammo limits? I think that might be easier for most gun owners to swallow.

And my apologies if I was overly confrontational in this thread

[LP2K12]

59. Not a problem...

Your suggestion sounds like a fantastic one and it could work.

It's definitely a form of regulation I could get behind before pushing for ammo and firearm limits.

I think a question that lingers in my mind is how do we enforce either as a regulation/law?

Do we send some certified inspector to homes to verify secure storage? Do local law enforcement sign off? Or, do we go on the honor system and believe that the idiots will follow it?

[Jenoch]

54. How on earth do you know how the lady in

Georgia stored her gun? The stories (2) I read did not say where she kept her gun.

[Mojorabbit]

115. I go through more than a hundred rounds in one day at the range. nt

[LP2K12]

123. So do I

The range is not home. Owners could purchase their ammo on the way or at the range (horrible prices). It prevents stockpiling.

I've already gone back on this issue though on a post in this thread where regulating storage of the items was suggested. I'm now more for that than limiting firearms or ammo.

[Mojorabbit]

140. I would rather buy it when on sale and keep it here.

That is my personal preference and how I have done it for decades.

[NickB79]

9. I have 10,000 rd of ammo in my house

It's no big deal. I stocked up on a particular brand of ammo that my rifles really liked, that was on sale one week at a big-box sporting goods store a few years ago. I'm set for the next decade, and don't have to worry about price spikes from all these runs on guns and ammo we've seen lately.

[RobertEarl]

20. You should tell the fire department

So that if your house burns they know to evacuate the 'hood.

Really, you should.

[NutmegYankee]

22. Ammo really isn't that dangerous in a fire.

Without a barrel it has low energy and doesn't travel far. The casing is the bigger danger as it is tossing bits of brass around, but that's a very localized (< 2 ft) hazard. Mythbusters had a nice test of this and concluded it wasn't that dangerous.

[RobertEarl]

27. Sure, ok

That's right, bullets don't kill people, ... er, ah,,, wait a sec......

After all, what's one more dead fireman? What they don't know can't kill them, right?

Have I got the gun-nut pattern down, or what? Please don't shoot me.

[NickB79]

30. Of course bullets kill people

When they're fired from a firearm, where the pressure of the burning gunpowder can build sufficiently to propel the bullet to lethal velocities.

Or are you under the impression that bullets can kill without a gun being present? Hell, if that's the case let's just throw them with our bare hands, who needs an expensive gun.

[RobertEarl]

37. 10,000 rounds in a fire?

You know for a fact that no bullets will fly?

I look forward to seeing the science on that. Just tell the fireman first, ok?

[X_Digger]

32. Ignorance of science is a right wing thing.

Please, go research this.

[NutmegYankee]

33. It's called physics.

A bullet gets it's lethal energy because it gains velocity by being propelled down a barrel. A bullet casing popping from a fire acts more like a firecracker.

[Recursion]

39. A bullet not in a barrel doesn't go fast enough to kill somebody

It pops. The danger from the brass is that it might hit somebody in the eye, and firemen wear masks.

[RobertEarl]

43. The barrel makes it go fast? That's nutzoid.

Try again.

[Recursion]

50. Of course the barrel makes it go fast (along with the chamber). Do you understand how guns work?

The barrel and chamber keep the expanding gas in a line behind the round rather than spreading out in all directions.

A gun with no barrel (ie, just a chamber the length of the round itself) wouldn't have enough muzzle velocity to break skin.

[RobertEarl]

60. Yes. The chamber

Now as to your assertion that "it doesn't go fast enough to kill" is what you are really saying and that is nutzoid. Among ten thousand bullets there is very likely to be enough resistance, ie, chamber, to allow the bullet to fly fast enough. There have been cases where deadly bullets fly in even less surroundings.

You really should tell the firemen. That is, if you like firemen better than bullets.

[NutmegYankee]

63. Then present that case.

Bullets alone. Not In a gun.

[RobertEarl]

76. You know what a Hilti gun is?

It has no barrel. It does have a chamber. But works great.

It is the controlled explosion that creates speed. Gunpowder is what makes for the power and the equal but opposite force is what allows the force to be directed.

Now, before you do something stupid like hold a bullet in your hand and try to fire the bullet, hear this:

[font size =10] [CENTER]DON'T DO IT

[NutmegYankee]

79. Nah really, don't hold a firecracker in the hand?

Present the case.

[RobertEarl]

89. You like losing?

Can't even answer the question Mr. Expert?

Please, don't shoot me, Mr. Gun Expert.

And please, don't play with guns. You might hurt yourself.

[NutmegYankee]

90. You lost 10 posts ago.

It's all over but your yelling. LOL

I'll tell you what - Post this in the Science forum and ask who won. I dare you.

[Lurker Deluxe]

149. Wrong

A Hilti gun (just a brand name) is exactly like a gun. They label the parts a little different because they function a little differently but the fact is there is a chamber and a barrel.

The barrel in a Hilti gun is called a piston, the chamber is where the round goes. The chamber contains a firing pin just like any other gun. The load is a .22 round (charge) that has no projectile which is why the barrel is called a piston. When the Hilti is cocked the chamber opens, the round (charge) enters, and chamber closes with the firing pin "cocked". When the charge explodes it is contained in the chamber just like a regular gun, the only difference is there is no projectile, so the charge expands down the barrel (liner) driving the piston (bullet) to strike the object to be driven.

The only difference is the projectile does not leave the gun, it is contained within the devise ... making it a piston instead of a bullet.

Some Hilti guns, just an FYI, are also semi-automatic and have "clips" that can hold up to 100 rounds of ammo (nails).

[NickB79]

58. It's all about containing and directing pressure

Try to drive a nail into a 2x4 by blowing on it. No go.

Now drive that same nail into a 2x4 using a nail gun. In it goes.

Know what the difference is? The air compressor the nail gun uses PRESSURIZES the gas used to push the nail far more than your lungs ever could.

No pressure, no speed. Does that help explain things?

[RobertEarl]

62. Go tell the firemen

I'm sure they will tell you they are not worried about your 10,000 deadly bullets. I'm sure. Heck, they'll just love you. I'm sure.

[NutmegYankee]

66. You failed to address his point.

Or my point. You said the "hood" would need to be evacuated.

Behold the awesome fucking power of science. If you think you are winning, well

[RobertEarl]

68. What is your point, if you have one?

Is it that 10,000 rounds are safe in a fire? That is your science? Bzzzzt!!

[NutmegYankee]

71. Try reading the sub thread.

[RobertEarl]

77. So, you quit?

Sign of a loss there, sport. Thanks.

[NutmegYankee]

81. Nope. Not my job to read to you.

[RobertEarl]

84. Your loss, sport.

I win.

[NutmegYankee]

87. ...

[geckosfeet]

78. Firemen know the hazards. They have been trained. You obviously have not been.

The danger from ammunition ignited in a fire is minimal.

Do some research.

[RobertEarl]

83. Yeah. I know some firemen.

They know to stay the fuck away from fires around 10,000 bullets.

Do you know better? You gonna try it and find out? Please don't.

[geckosfeet]

127. I have'nt tried it with 10k. But I have seen bullets fizzle in a fire.

I have had this discussion with a retired fire chief in my community. They do appreciate the heads up but know that unconfined rounds do not present much of a hazard. The stuff you see on television is bs, and that's where most people around here seem to get their firearms training.

[tradecenter]

131. Ok.

I'm a firefighter and everything you've been told so far is true. I had a bunch of ammo cook off several years ago and I was struck in the chest by a .45 round, know what it did? Nothing, it bounced off, that's all, didn't even leave a mark.
It's a well known fact among the fire services that ammo cooking off is not dangerous.

[overthehillvet]

111. time of the list of "E's" and an I

Ignition
explosion
expansion
expulsion

The chamber contains the brass part of the cartridge not allowing it to escape to the rear or deform and fragment. The containment of the explosion by the chamber makes it so that the only place for the hot expanding gasses to go is down the barrel behind the bullet. The bullet driven by these hot expanding gasses continues to gain velocity until it exits the barrel.
When the chamber is not containing the cartridge the expanding hot gasses go in every direction finding the path of least resistance. The case is very often lighter than the bullet so it is pushed away from the bullet by the forces of the explosion. When the brass cartridge is ruptured by this un contained explosion the gasses will blow out the hole because there is no resistance at all.
Yep that is the way it works.

[RobertEarl]

113. What if the barrel were 22 feet long?

You know what a Hilti gun is and how it works?
It has no barrel, yet it does all on your list, sport.

So if you have a longer barrel the bullet flies faster?
No. The barrel stabilizes the trajectory, that's all it does, besides create friction. The initial expansion in the chamber does all the propelling. Geez, you're no fun either. Go back to bed.

[PavePusher]

143. So, the barrel does not contain pressure?

Gun makers everywhere will need to be briefed on this, apparently they've been doing it wrong for several hundred years.

It sems you've made some sort of scientific break-through. Can you publish your data for us?

[overthehillvet]

144. Nope still not quite right

After a certain length as determined by the point where the gasses stop expanding the bullet will not continue to be accelerated.
First we are talking about firearms here and not tools.
Second, I've built about a 50 rifles, have been reloading for 45 years, and compete in long range bench rest competition at least once a month. I do know how a rifle works.
I can take any rifle and trim the barrels an inch at a time and demonstrate with a chronograph that they loose velocity with every snip. This is not rocket science. These things are very well known and understood by those who build and repair firearms.
The difference in the velocity of a .284" or 7MM diameter SPBT, (spire point boat tail) bullet that weighs 150 grains coming out of a 20" barrel and a 22" barrel is about 100-150FPS depending on the case capacity, case contour, and powder amount/density/type, and then temp and humidity. Yes that is an increase in measured muzzle velocity out of the longer barrel. The ratio of increase will stay pretty constant until it reaches somewhere around 27"-28" and reaches the point of diminished return.
I'm not sure exactly what point you are trying to make but I know exactly what I'm talking about.

[Lurker Deluxe]

150. # 149

A Hilti gun has a barrel, adressed in #149.

You are mistaken.

[Jules2u]

158. umm it's called research

Ammo in a box or even lose does not have the velocity to go through the fireman's uniform unless it is chambered in a gun.

[gopiscrap]

159. welcome to DU

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. And fire departments do hold back

For a reason. It is like national policy, and in a few cases could invalidate insurance.

[NutmegYankee]

44. They hold back because of loaded weapons potential.

Not sure ammo popping could invalidate insurance. By the time it's popping, the house is already a total loss.

[NickB79]

29. You may have seen one too many movies

In fact, ammo doesn't explode under normal conditions: http://www.ehow.com/info_8695985_bullet-reacts-fire.html

In Episode 85 of the television show "Myth Busters," the danger of putting bullets in a fire was tested by placing .22, .44 and .50 caliber bullets in an oven and then turning on the heat. All of the bullets fired when they got hot, but none of them had sufficient force to shoot through the oven door. By contrast, bullets fired from a gun at an oven door went right through it. A similar test was performed on an open flame with the same results --- bullets dropped into the fire went off but were not dangerous.

[RobertEarl]

42. 10,000 bullets in a house fire?

I look forward to seeing that experiment.

Just don't be anywhere near, ok? And tell the firemen. You don't hate firemen do you?

[NickB79]

49. Didn't read the link, did you?

Or do any other research of your own? Too bad, you might have learned something.

FYI, the 10,000 rounds of various calibers I have fills a box approximately the size of a milk crate. We're not talking about a room of high explosives here.

And since I'm in a rural area and heat my house using a 500-gallon tank of pressurized propane, the ammo is the least of my worries. A flame gets near that gas line, and game over.

[NutmegYankee]

69. He'll, how many homes have 250 gallons of freaking heating oil ready to go? NT

[NickB79]

75. Well, I threw a single bullet in a fire, just to prove you wrong

OH GOD, I WAS WRONG! OH THE HUMANITY!!!!

[RobertEarl]

80. Just kidding here, but

Throw all your 10,000 in a fire. And keep them all in the milk crate.


But call 9/11 first. <<&lt not kidding there) And call your funeral parlor.

[NickB79]

91. You remind me of someone I worked with once

I worked at a gun shop in college, and a woman at the front desk dropped a box of primers for reloading ammo. Tiny little things, the size of a BB each but there were 100 of them in a box. They spilled, and she FREAKED. She thought if anyone stepped on one, it would go off like a land mine, blow your foot off, etc. She was crying and paging the store manager over the intercom. A few people started laughing, which was cruel because she was truly scared.

The store manager came over, took one look around, and swept them up with a broom and dustpan. The worker was sent home to calm down.

[RobertEarl]

94. You remind me of someone in a ...

A terrible news report, of someone who.... well, you get the picture.

Please, tell the fire department of the danger you harbor. Wait, are you afraid the firemen might tell on you? Or that they will steal your bullets? You told us you have 10,000 bullets, what are you afraid of?

[NickB79]

96. LOL, yeah they'll tell on me

For what, exactly? Owning ammo? Oh no, I've broken no laws and yet I'm afraid they'll tell on me!

And like I said, if ever there were a fire at my house, the 500 gallons of propane onsite is FAR more of a concern than any number of bullets.

Now that I think about it, one of my coworkers is a part-time volunteer firefighter. I'm going to ask him what he thinks about this issue when I see him again on Monday.

[RobertEarl]

97. Right, So tell them

Tell them about your hidden danger. They can tell about the propane because it is not that hidden. Besides it is in a tank. And they will probably know before they get there about the propane, but not the bullets. Unless you tell them.

So what are you afraid of?

[NickB79]

148. So, I took your advice and called the local fire department

I informed them that I had potentially flammable material in my house, including propane cylinders, 5 gal. of gasoline, and 10,000 rounds of ammo.

The person who answered my call asked me if any of the materials were stored near a heat source, like a fireplace or furnace. I said no, they're in a locked closet in a little-used 2nd level room.

He told me that, if I ever do call to report a fire, inform the 911 operator of all potential dangers to the firefighters at that time, or at least let them know when they arrive on-site.

He did tell me their standard procedure, if they hear bullets popping off, is to pull back a few hundred feet and make sure the fire doesn't spread to surrounding structures. And yes, he said they have dealt with that before. Since my house would have to be entirely engulfed by the time this happened, that's not a big deal since it would be a total loss anyway.

And that was it. He didn't request my name, number, address, put my name on file, nothing I didn't already know. Basically it was no big deal to the local fire department or myself.

So, you were saying?

[Major Nikon]

98. You can see what happens for yourself

[RobertEarl]

99. Uh, hello!?

Throw 10,000 bullets in a fire, Major.

No, Wait. Stop. Don't. I was just kidding.

Geez, the things some people will do to try and protect their arsenals.
Amazing or disgusting? They report, we decide.

Hmmmm. I've decided ...

Amazing and disgusting.

"Look Ma. i threws a bullet in the fire, and i kin still drool over my guns"

[Major Nikon]

100. I don't have a single bullet in my home

Much less 10,000. So it's not hard to see how you're barking up the wrong tree.

The video I posted shows conclusive evidence of what happens. Anyone who wishes to can watch it and decide for themselves. Obviously you've already made up your closed mind.

Cheers!

[RobertEarl]

101. 1 vs. 10,000, Major. Duh.

It is, I fear, you barking up the wrong tree. Don't hand me a tube link and bark like that. You should know better.

[Major Nikon]

105. Do you have any idea what you are going on about?

I certainly don't. The video demonstrated far more than 1 bullet.

If you believe the fire department should be notified because someone has 10,000 rounds of ammo, you're uninformed. A 5 gal container of gas would be at least as big of a hazzard, if not more so. The gas in your car's tank is a far bigger hazzard. The physics involved betrays your reasoning and the video proves it. If you want to be dismissive of reality, be my guest. It doesn't do much for your credibility.

Just sayin'

[RobertEarl]

106. You post a tube link and start barking at me?

And i'm supposed to figure out what the fuck you are barking about?

That dog don't hunt. Try again. Try writing it instead of barking up a tube link. Geez, you're no fun.

[Major Nikon]

110. You are trying to perpetuate a myth that's been cold hard busted

I understand that some people need to be drawn a picture, but instead of drawing you a picture I gave you a video that describes it in painstaking detail. If you want to continue to be disengenuous, go ahead, but I'm done playing your silly games.

Cheers!

[RobertEarl]

112. Uhmmm

You do you get it that I didn't see your video, right? So then you know you are the one playing the stupid fucking game, right?

See, these are words here. This is the accepted and expected way to communicate. Hell, you didn't even explain what is in the video. Dumb, and you're no fun.

Oh, and please, don't play with guns. You might get hurt.

[Riftaxe]

116. basic physics...where are those bullets are going to go?

the barrel of a firearm has some function...even someone like you would admit as much.

Us peons think it focus the force into velocity for a bullet....what do you think a grain or two of powder does?

[rl6214]

109. Why, they didn't do anything wrong other than not pay mortgage

[JaneyVee]

5. Now it makes sense why there are 200 million guns in the U.S. but only 1 in 4 owns one.

Hoarders.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

6. Its over 300M firearms and growing. About half the households in the US have firearms

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

8. "About half the households in the US have firearms"

To paraphrase the Yuri Orlov character, 'The only question is: How do we arm the other half?'

[MightyMopar]

12. One-third of U.S. households own guns

One-third of U.S. households own guns

WASHINGTON, April 26 (UPI) -- Almost one-third of U.S. households report having any guns in the home -- the lowest level ever since the survey began in the 1970s, a survey indicates.

The report by the Violence Policy Center is an analysis of data from the General Social Survey conducted by the National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago. The report says household gun ownership peaked in 1977, with 54 percent of households reported having any guns.

However, by 2010 household gun ownership dropped to 32.3 percent of U.S. households reporting having any guns in the home -- the lowest level ever recorded by the General Social Survey.

Male gun ownership peaked in 1990, with 52.4 percent of U.S. men reported personally owning a gun, but this dropped to 33.2 percent in 2010. Female gun ownership peaked in 1982 at 14.3 percent and dropped to 9.9 percent in 2010.

Read more: http://www.upi.com/Health_News/2011/04/26/One-third-of-US-households-own-guns/UPI-46991303850331/#ixzz2HA1DIKZf

538 blog has gun ownership at 42% of voters.
fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/in-gun-ownership-statistics-partisan-divide-is-sharp/

[ProgressiveProfessor]

13. Depends if you believe a VPC funded phone survey

Other sources, including Gallup place it higher

[MightyMopar]

14. Yeah, Gallup has proved to be accurate

[Riftaxe]

93. Perhaps it is just living in New Hampshire

but when was the last time you actually told a phone pollster the truth?

Every 4 years I get to spin the biggest yarns, and the underpaid, overworked chap at the other end has to record it. It can be great fun...especially when pollsters call you nonstop 1 out of every 4 years (3 out of 4 years your not worth calling).

Pollsters are the bane of actually donating to campaigns, i certainly have fun with them. In my lifetime I have been contacted by BLS once, lord knows by how many political pollsters.

I suppose same is true for the nielson ratings, i had a box for 2 years and only received 4 channels, NBC and 3 PBS stations...this was back when PBS programing was not such horrid dreck.

[NickB79]

64. Of course it would under-estimate the real numbers

LOTS of gun owners would never tell a random stranger on the phone, especially one calling from an organization known for pushing gun control measures, if they owned guns.

I bet they got a lot of hang-ups conducting those phone surveys.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

38. With only...

...one out three homes armed we need to arm the other two.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

11. Something is not right.

Having that many guns and not selling them to try and save the house?
Why leave the guns in the first place?
Did he just have no way to move anything?
Where is the gun owner?
Does he sell guns for a living? That could explain the amount.

There are a lot of questions and I would LOVE to be the reporter that gets the assignment on this!

[NutmegYankee]

16. It's hard to sell guns in Conn. We have some of the strictest laws in the country.

And it appears the man didn't have time to move out. I.E. - the classic "change locks" assholes.

[agentS]

18. If his house was in trouble, then the guy should have stopped stockpiling weapons

It's not rocket science people.

[Berserker]

23. How do you

Know when he stopped? He could have had them for years. He also had pots and pans that he could have made meth!!!! How long has he been stockpiling them? OMG he may have had a pile of condoms what could he be thinking of doing?

[agentS]

24. Obviously his mortgage troubles didn't start overnight

Or his meth troubles, or condom troubles.

[kelliekat44]

19. The military-industrial-complex (MIC) is getting competition from the WIC (weapon-industrial-comple

NRA successfully used 2nd amendment to make huge sums of money for a few people at the top. They don't really care about "right to bear arms" it's all about right to buy guns/weapons and ammo of all kinds. A lot of gun owners are just cash flow for them.

[MightyMopar]

26. It's becoming apparent that guns can be an addiction

[cantbeserious]

56. Yes - And A Sick And Depraved One At That

eom

[rightsideout]

82. I guess it's like any collection

You gotta have different guns for different purposes and then there are variations and upgrades. Before you know it you have over 5 and a bunch of ammo.

I've been skeet shooting and to the local range a few times and my son shoots with his scout troop. Apparently, he's the best marksmen in his troop and the local range asked him to join the rifle team. I'm really surprised he isn't interested in joining. I keep his target scores. I think they are impressive. Just as well I guess.

But I don't have a desire to own a gun and keep one in the house even for protection. As long as I've been around guns, they still give me the creeps.

When I was a teenager I lost a friend to suicide with a gun his father used for protection. Alot of good that did.

[billbailey19448jj]

55. Good God, 20000 rounds of ammunition?!

That gun owner must have been preparing for some kind of war, or a rebellion against the government. And I'm with those who say that this is a perfect example of why there should be strict limits on gun/ammo ownership.

[bluestate10]

67. 20,000 rounds is enough to kill a whole town. A civilian having that many bullets is

insane.

BTW, welcome to DU.

[NickB79]

95. Really? A whole town?

Sweet Jesus! We should look into creating a professional force to stop crimes such as this. Hell, we could give them guns, and training, and cars, and maybe call them something catchy, like "Police" or something.

Otherwise, someone could walk around a town for 10 days, shooting and reloaded 24/7, without anyone in town realizing it, until the whole town was dead!

[earthside]

72. Who says there is no such thing as a 'gun fetish'.

Owning and continuing to acquire thousands of rounds of ammunition ...

Owning and continuing to purchase and acquire non-antique guns ...

Some kind of neurosis, right?

[Riftaxe]

85. Probably .22 LR

I once bought a case of it to last a summer, which was much more then 20k rounds.

It is hardly uncommon, and i suspect even these days, a "round" costs around $.05

[flvegan]

88. I love sensationalism when politically bent for agenda.

A foreclosure in CT can go pretty quickly. Did you know that?

How does anyone know that the homeowner wasn't up until the last minute negotiating with the bank, or wrongfully foreclosed on?

Oh, that's right...because now it's about guns. Silly me.

[madinmaryland]

108. Actually, I do...

Unless your definition of quick is 10 months.

Apparently their guns (and yours) were much more important their "home".

[Riftaxe]

118. 10 months would be a hell of a lot to work with

most people have to deal with it in a 1/3rd of a time. It varies from state to state, but 10 months has to be on the most forgiving end of the scale. In New England it us usually 2 months without penalty.

[Kennah]

104. Has to be more to the story

Even at $100 a pop in a pawn shop, that's $13K. No way someone is just going to walk away from that. Walk away from an upside down mortgage, yeah of course. But $13K? Not happening.

I suspect given the number of foreclosed homes right now, it's a great place for criminals, gun runners in this case, to stash things. There's probably a buttload of weapons and drugs and more sitting in foreclosed home all across America.

[Riftaxe]

119. Hmm not sure about that, i have a break action revolver

that i fixed...even in it's current state, charging more then $40 would haunt me.

Never been a fan of .32 acp.

It's history though is fascinating, was only sold by sears.

[Kennah]

142. With an inert grenade and mortar with the guns, $40 handguns seem unlikely to be representative

[eppur_se_muova]

114. Clearly NOT a "well organized" militia. nt

[Riftaxe]

120. Probably why you are not on the supreme court

or ever read a new England State constitution. That silly regulated word keeps showing up in context there.

I know...in your world maine is the first state, rhode island the 48th, and the rest somewhere in between.

[jpak]

122. $60 k worth of guns and ammo + can't pay the mortgage = Gun Nut

And now he has none.

good

yup

[lynne]

134. Bet he gets them back -

- as police are not charging him since the guns are legally owned. They were removed by police as the bank didn't want the liability of removing them. Unless he's broken a law, they have no reason to keep the guns.

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/Cleaners-stumble-upon-130-guns-inside-Conn-home-4169830.php

[slackmaster]

138. I think lynne has analyzed the situation correctly

The guy was so deep underwater on his house that liquidating the gun collection would not have saved it.

Because the firearms are owned outright, i.e. not used as collateral for a loan, nobody can take them away, and he can sell them for cash any time if he needs to.

ETA my own collection is less than half of that in size and in value, but I have well over 20,000 rounds of ammunition.

[TheCowsCameHome]

125. I question his mental well-being

Even if his weapons were legally licensed, how is it he allowed his home to go to forclosure without liquidating some of his "collection"?

You can call him a hoarder or whatever you want, I don't think his mind is functioning rationally.

I worry about that type of person having so much firepower.

[former-republican]

133. A lot of people in the country walked away from upside down mortgages

without liquidating their possessions.

Do you question all of them also?

[TheCowsCameHome]

135. Nice deflection, but a fail.

Do you really believe a person needs 130 guns or 20,000 rounds of ammo, in lieu of a roof over their head?

[former-republican]

137. It's not a fail or a deflection

Answer my question

[TheCowsCameHome]

139. Is that a request, or a demand?

That will determine where this goes............

[slackmaster]

152. I doubt that it was a question of keeping the gun collection vs. having a roof over one's head

The person is going to end up living somewhere one way or another. Nobody is going to be put out on the street.

Let's suppose, and this is PURELY HYPOTHETICAL, that the debt owed on the mortgage exceeds the value of the gun collection by so much that completely liquidating the collection would make no practical difference to the person's financial situation. Let's also assume that a Chapter 7 bankruptcy will be the outcome after the foreclosure is completed. (IOW the owner is in far too deep to save the property through a Chapter 13 even if all assets such as the guns were sold off.)

Would it make sense to sell the collection now, since the person is surely going to lose the house to foreclosure anyway? Walk away from the house and into a rental home that the person can afford on his or her income. The money from selling the collection would be taken in bankruptcy court toward settling the debt.

Or would a more rational course of action be to hold on to the guns, which are presently appreciating in value at historic rates, let the house go, and relocate to an affordable rental? Chapter 7 goes through, but the creditors CANNOT lay any claim to the gun collection as they could have the cash that resulted from the sale of the guns in the other scenario.

One way the person ends up bankrupt and in a rental, with $60K worth of guns.

The other way the person ends up bankrupt and in a rental, and no assets.

What would YOU do if you were in the same situation and actually thought about the consequences?

[TheCowsCameHome]

153. I don't know what this guy is thinking.

I believe anyone that treasures a gun arsenal (or a collection of any objects) more than his/her basic lodging isn't playing with a full deck.

[slackmaster]

154. I'm sorry I spent that much time carefully writing something that you didn't bother reading

Your thinking is IMO based on a false dilemma.

The person is going to lose the house.

One way, he ends up with a gun collection.

The other way, he ends up with no gun collection.

[TheCowsCameHome]

155. Your post was based on a purely hypothetical scenario (your very words)

and I did read it, thank you.

You and I have no way of knowing what his situation actually is.

You only care that he gets to keep his precious guns, above all else. Just admit it.

If the man has mental issues, perhaps he shouldn't have guns in the first place.

[slackmaster]

156. Your conjecture that the person values guns over a domicile relies on several huge assumptions

Which are also totally hypothetical.

You only care that he gets to keep his precious guns, above all else. Just admit it.

I care only that the person is able to pick from a variety of choices to the best possible satisfaction, given the unfortunate circumstance of losing a home.

[TheCowsCameHome]

157. Which did he lose - his guns or his house?

For now, both.

Will he get his guns back? Probably.

Will he get his house back? Probably not.

He made his choice, he'll have to live with it.

His credit is ruined, he lost any equity he had in the house, he'll have to bunk in somewhere, but he'll get to keep his precious toys.

Gee, it has a happy ending, after all.

[samsingh]

132. the nra would be trilled if houses were guns themselves