I never thought of myself as a (Childhood) Gun Violence Survivor

[HockeyMom]

but I suppose I am. I was also the same age (6 years old) as the Sandy Hook children who survived. No, I was not shot myself or saw other children shot, but I did see an adult shot in the face. It was right after my Mom had taken me to see Santa at Macy's Heard Square and we got on a NYC bus to go home.

This was in 1954 and I could even describe to you what I was wearing that day. Mom and I got on the bus to go home and I was sucking on a candy cane that Santa had given me. The bus driver said "Merry Christmas" and patted me on the head. As Mom paid our fare, we started walking down the aisle to get a seat, when another passenger right behind us got on and got into an argument with the driver. He pulled out a gun and shot the driver in the face. Yes. I turned around and saw it all.

Mom threw me onto the floor of the bus aisle and got on top of me. People were screaming and trying to get off the bus. I suppose in today's world that shooter probably would have tried to take out all the other people on the bus too. No witnesses. The man ran off the bus and people were screaming to "GET HIM". Unarmed people on the street, BTW.

As the shooter had gotten off, Mom got up and pulled me to the front of the bus. "Don't look". she told me, but of course as a little kid, I just had to. 60 years later, I wish I had listened to Mom and NOT looked. I will not go into details of what I saw. but I can close my eyes today and still see that man, who patted 6 year old me on he head. I could not stop shaking for days, and slept in the same bed with Mom and Dad for a very long time. I did not want to get on a city bus, or go to Herald Square for an even longer time. Growing up, I never wanted to own a gun myself for "protection". I wanted no part of them. I do not think anyone who has ever seen what I did as a 6 year old could ever want to.

When the Sandy Hook massacre happened, I had nightmares for days reliving what those children, who were the same age as me, must have experienced. I did not know that adult bus driver. I cannot imwagine how a 6 year old child could live with the memory of their peers and their teachers being annihilated right in front of them.

Gun rights owners, come back and talk to me again when you, or your children, have seen a human being with with their face blown away and their blood and and brains splattered all over the place. No person, let alone a CHILD, should ever have to see that, but this is what you and your "2nd Amendment" rights are advocating MORE OF.

NO MORE. We need to end the violence NOW. Screw YOUR 2nd Amendment rights. The rest of us, and especially little children, right to LIFE trumps any rights you may have to your precious guns.

[niyad]

1. I cannot even begin to imagine the horror of what you experienced as a child, and what it was like

hearing about sandy hook. thank you for sharing this with us, perhaps it will give cause at least one 2d amendment advocate to stop and think.

how are you holding up now? is there anything your DU family can do?

[freshwest]

4. Same here. Thanks for putting it here.

[rightsideout]

2. Wow, what a tragedy to witness.

Like you said, something like that gets engrained in your memories for the rest of your life.

I lost my best friend in elementary school and Jr high to suicide with his father's gun that was bought for "protection."

[Skittles]

3. my mum evaded machine gun fire

she mentined it casually one day, in reference to her cousin (when they were children) - "I remember when we were getting machine gunned, Tillie ran so much faster than me." This from a plane that "popped over the channel" during WWII. Needless to say, mum was never a fan of guns. :O

[HockeyMom]

6. May you or your children

never have to experience this. We acknowledge that our soldiers in war {with guns) have Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome, yet we don't that adults and children who have witnessed and survived gun violence. It is just as traumatic. You cannot ignore and bury it in your memory. Someday, even 50 years later it will surface.

Whose rights trump WHOSE? Our Lives and mental health, or some 2nd Amendmen rights to guns?

[HangOnKids]

7. {{{{{HUG}}}}}

[99Forever]

10. What a heartless...

... asinine thing to say. You should be ashamed of yourself, but somehow I doubt you are.

I guess that's what happens when *The Precious* becomes your Golden Idol.

[abelenkpe]

8. K&R nt

[bucky balls]

9. Sorry you had that traumatic experience, but can you please explain to me why

my rights ought to be compromised because of the actions of an infinitesimal number of screwballs?

I'm thinking the supporters of the right to choose might ask a similar question of those who would prohibit every abortion regardless of the circumstances.

[baldguy]

12. Because too many of your fellow "responsible gun owners" find nothing wrong with selling guns

to those same screwballs.

What are you doing to stop Sandy Hook from happening AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN?

Because whatever it is, it's been woefully ineffective AND YOU HAVE FAILED MISERABLY!

You want to preserve your supposed "right" to own a gun? Deal with your RESPONSIBILITY to promote security that goes with it.

And only a fucking evil, sick RW SOB would equate an adult woman's right to control her own body with some other fucking evil, sick RW SOB thinking he has a "right" to murder innocent children.

[bucky balls]

13. Well, I sure do thank you for providing evidence that some people should not have guns.

It's interesting that the most abrasive, abusive, vitriolic and threatening sounding comments on this subject come from those who don't have guns, know nothing about them, and just hate them for not much any rational reason. Please get some counseling before you decide to buy one.

[baldguy]

18. You don't like being accused of being an evil fuck for promoting RW talking points?

Easy solution. Don't promote fucking evil RW talking points.

[Chorophyll]

21. +100,000

[robbob]

42. 20 children and 6 adults shot dead at Sandy Hook

And this kind of horrific scenario plays out at least 3-4 times every year? Not to mention the thousands of other, smaller incidents that also involve gun violence.

...and you say people hate them "for not much rational reason"??? 20 dead children pumped full of bullets seems a pretty rational reason to hate what the culture of guns has wrought in the USA.

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. I have 'em

And I really do not want or need AR-15 or AK family of weapons in civilian hands. I am willing to compromise. This is assuming two things are done.

1- Reduce effective rate of fire to one a second. A DU'er posted the other day the defective weapon he was issued in Nam, which effectively made that M-16 a bolt action rifle. That defect (in a war zone it is) could very well be the engineering solution.

2.- standard mags, not extended.

As a responsible gun owner I also want a 100% background check at the federal level.

So what are you going to say now?

Oh, and as a former medic I got the pleasure of seeing what the .223 does to the human body...it ain't pretty, take my word on this. The youngest victim was eight at the time. We worked our asses to make sure he lived. Serious, you have no idea.

[obama2terms]

45. Are you fucking kidding me?

Ever heard of James Yeager I think not? Gun worshipers are so whiny!

[Zookeeper]

49. Bucky, I'm thinking you don't venture too far from DU..

because liberal FB pages are overrun with "abrasive, abusive, vitriolic and threatening comments" made by RWers and gun fetishists on this topic.

I want to puke every time they whine about how there shouldn't be restrictions on assault weapons because they love'em for target shooting. Their toys and hobbies (FUN!) are more important than public safety.

[LiberalEsto]

14. +1000

There are too damn many tragedies happening too damn frequently.
It has to stop.

[Glaug-Eldare]

17. AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

Mail Message
At Mon Jan 14, 2013, 08:15 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Sorry you had that traumatic experience, but can you please explain to me why
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2192233

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

Saying that Democrats who support rational gun control are the same as anti-abortion terrorists is a vicious RW talking point.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Jan 14, 2013, 08:22 PM, and the Jury voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: I'm sick of whiny gun nuts.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Even though there is a false equivalency in the post, I don't believe it is so egregious as to warrant it being deleted.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: Enough with the RW talking points.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Alerter is making a huge and false leap. Nothing in this post is objectionable.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Abuse of the alert system. No such comparison was made.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[baldguy]

19. The mind boggles trying to understand these juries sometimes.

[laundry_queen]

33. They have become infested. nt

[Brigid]

53. Lately I have been getting frustrated by frequent jury service requests . . .

For gun-related posts. But this is one I would gladly have served on to cast a "hide" vote.

[yardwork]

27. Infinitesimal?

[lastlib]

38. Kindly take your bullshit to another board.

Your "right" to have a deadly weapon does not transcend our right to live.

[obama2terms]

46. Yes!

[olegramps]

40. Do you believe that the citizens have a right to regulate 2nd Amendment Rights?

The Constitution wisely provides citizens with numerous "rights." However, for example the right to free speech does not extend to vicious slander or the right to yell fire in a crowded movie theater. The right of a responsible citizen to own a gun, I believe, demands that they take responsible measures that prevent it from being misused.

The irresponsibility of the mother of the young man that that took the lives of innocent children is partly responsible for this tragedy. Since you are such a staunch defender of the Constitution's 2nd Amendment Rights perhaps you explain to me, since no restriction on age is mentioned, just why an up standing ten year old young boy or girl should not have the right to purchase guns or ammunition.

[crim son]

47. Your right to bear arms is limited by your ability to use them responsibly and

by the purpose as mentioned in the Constitution of bearing those arms. You don't need to have an assault weapon either for fun, defense or adornment, and given that fact there is no reason why they should not be banned outright.

[McCamy Taylor]

52. In what way will keeping guns out of the hands of drunks, criminals and the mentally ill

compromise your right to bear arms? As far as I can see, all that is compromised is the so called right of gun manufacturers to make a shit load of money.

Many states do not allow teenaged girls to get an abortion without parental consent, and yet these same states allow children to carry guns. Makes you wonder.

[cynatnite]

54. Your right to own a deadly weapon should NOT trump a child's right to be safe....

BTW, apple and orange comparison there.

The stupid is strong with this one.

[Brigid]

55. Bucky, there are two words in the 2nd Amendment that seem to escape you . . .

And your fellow gun nuts: "WELL REGULATED." This country is awash in guns and gun violence. That doesn't sound very "well regulated" to me.

[99Forever]

11. What a terrible thing to have to carry for a lifetime.

I totally agree, the insanity needs to stop, NOW.

[tavalon]

15. I spent a couple of years as an ER Nurse so I saw adults and children shot

I wish I hadn't. I don't find assaut weapons in any fashion, to be okay.

[pattiepcomedy]

16. My dad shouldn't have had guns - My family's nightmare

When things like this happen, I think of my childhood. I didn't see anyone get shot in the face, but was affected by my father's alcoholism, love of guns and what happens when both are combined. Every day I thought I was going to die.

I am glad he is dead now as he would have loved the Stand Your Ground law since he spent his whole life putting guns into people's faces. ... for as small an offense as walking through the common alley. He would say when he died there was alot of people he wanted to take out with him.

I remember when he'd get drunk me and my mom taking his guns apart and hiding the pieces. I remember chasing him with my mom trying to catch him so he wouldn't kill anyone. I remember my 18th party when, right before the party, he was drunk in early pm and said he was going to commit suicide in front of the whole family (7 kids); my mother tackled him and the bullet went through the dining room wall, through a coffee pot, and broke a window at a time there was a blizzard going on - about 1 hour before my guests arrived. I remember 3 or 4 times when he would act out with my uncle and grab his guns and scare my little brother to a point where my brother had to jump from the 2nd story window; one time my brother broke his leg trying to get away from my dad. I remember right before I got married, he didn't like my husband and told me I couldn't see him and I had this weird feeling while hiding on the avenues and looked out to see my father carrying a rifle and then he started running toward me and I ran and ran and ran - I will never forget the horror and fear. No police ever took his guns; just told him to go inside.

What are the politicians going to do about gun control? What can you say when places like Florida and Texas say that if you have a gun and if you feel threatened by words, you can kill an unarmed person? I pray that no one else has to go through my nightmare.

[HockeyMom]

22. Hugs to you

I now live in Florida (from NY) and this state terrifies me. I know so many people will never understand this, but despite my experience as a child, I felt a lot safer in NY than Florida. You simply don't know who here will have a gun, go into a rage, and shoot you with the excuse of SYG. If I ever get into a car accident, I will NEVER get out of my car until I call the police and they get to the accident scene. If somebody is going to shot me over road rage or and accident, they will have to do it through the windshield of my car. Too many crazies here with guns.

[redwitch]

23. I am so sorry!

My friend's dad used to line up all the kids when he was drunk/angry and tell his wife he was going to kill them all.

[yardwork]

28. I am so sorry.

[Chorophyll]

20. That's an incredibly horrifying story, HockeyMom.

Thank you for sharing it. I'm with you all the way.

[redwitch]

24. What a horrible memory, so sorry HockeyMom.

[hlthe2b]

25. I am sorry... No other words seem appropriate. I saw horrors when I was a teen, but it pales

in what these kids in Newtown experienced, or you yourself, as a six year old experienced. Somehow seeing a murder victim or a suicide when well in your teens is something one can rationalize. As a child, not so much.

As to those who would diminish this suffering because of their own insationable and obsessive (and very selfish) intent to put their own gun fetish above the survival of little children or teens or elderly or other inocents, I can have nothing but contempt.

My empathy is reserved for those who have suffered or have seen suffering and have vowed to work together to diminish it. Those others-- lacking in basic compassion-- can simply go to hell.

[yardwork]

26. I'm so sorry that happened to you.

[leanforward]

29. Thanks for sharing

If only more people could learn from your experience and apply it to their life.

[bluestate10]

30. A lot of us have gun violence memories that we will never forget.

Both my parents were sane people, but one day my dad got trunk and got into an argument with my mom, she became enraged and got a 32 caliber pistol that she owned. I was the only child at home. I had never seen them allow a fight to get to the level before. I was 13. I was pleading with my mom to put the gun down and my dad to shut up and back off, that didn't work. My mom put the loaded gun right in the middle of my dad's head. My dad was drunk and full of courage, he dared my mom to pull the trigger, I froze hoping she she would not but she pulled the trigger. The gun didn't go off. My mom was about to pull the trigger again when I jumped between her and my dad and started begging her to stop, she stopped with me between the two of them. I begged her to give me the gun and she did, but then started in hitting my dad with her fists. I had the gun, but was so shaken that I couldn't immediately stop them from hitting each other, but managed to gain enough presence to hide the gun behind a nearby tree and go stop them from fighting my pulling my small framed mom away and holding on to her. My drunk dad jumped into his truck and left. My mom calmed down. Once the danger was past, I checked the gun and found that it was fully loaded and the safety was off. The gun had failed to fire. My parents never fought like that again. I have thought about those minutes almost every day since. I don't understand why the gun, which I had fired before didn't fire with the barrel in the center of my dad's forehead. To this day, every time I think of those minutes, I have a bolt of fear and horror run through me, I witnessed something that no child should see, things worked out well for me and my parents, but every week, the same type of event ends with one or both parents dead or one headed for prison and children that have their lives ruined.

I am not sure whether gun laws could prevent what I experienced, but I think if people are conditioned to think deeply about why they need a gun and what the dangers of owning a gun are, many people will choose not to own a gun, as I chose to do as an adult.

[progressoid]

31. ...

[hopemountain]

32. the trauma of guns and assault weapons in the wrong hands is

immeasurable - particularly for children. there is no defense to justify the trauma. none.

i was also one of those kids with the alcoholic dad who pulled out his guns when drunk.

this weekend my younger brother (who was a toddler and when all of this was going on) called to tell me he was having horrible nightmares about dad about those times. he is concerned about the dreams and wondering why he is having them now. he used to be a bow hunter but is now a rifle hunter - it's a family sport and something he taught his boys - to hunt with guns. my bro is 50yo & dad passed away 11 years ago. we talked about for a bit and he agreed that no doubt recent events are bringing up some conflicts with past memories.

really, how does one - a vet, at that, honestly rationalize terrorism of children with guns when one has a gun safe with different types of gun weaponry & grand kids running around?

assault weapons are so devastating... i must strive to consciously wipe the mental visuals of the newtown children from my mind because my own memories begin to flood my awareness.

i am very sorry for all of us who have survived gun violence and for those who did not survive.

[apocalypsehow]

34. Kick & Rec. n/t.

[duhneece]

35. NO MORE

I will echo your message.

[WillyT]

36. K & R !!!

[nolabear]

37. Amen. I'm sorry you went through this, and thank you for talking.

After all these years you can still help by telling your story. I appreciate you for doing it.

[cantbeserious]

39. Thank You - Each Of These Stories Steadily Undermines The Gun Culture Madness

eom

[Victor_c3]

41. There are several devastating and tragic stories on this thread

and I fully believe the point that you made where you said "Gun rights owners, come back and talk to me again when you, or your children, have seen a human being with with their face blown away and their blood and and brains splattered all over the place."

I was fortunate to grow up in a safe and secure environment and never saw or dealt with the risks of gun violence while growing up. I deployed to Iraq and saw and dealt with the affects of guns and various weapons on people first hand and it was very traumatic to me. I have one story in particular that I don't wish to go into detail over, but it is painfully tragic and upsets me deeply that involves a dying child that I found after a firefight. Children should not have to deal with or see the consequences of gun violence. The harshness of those incidents affected me deeply as a young adult and I couldn't imagine what they would do to a child. The kid's little brother sat on the ground next to his older brother watching me and my medic attempt to keep him alive long enough for a medevac to come.

I often see flashes of that event over and over again while I'm playing with my own children. I couldn't imagine either of my little girls (aged 2 and 4) dealing with a situation like that. Their innocence and their naivety and the joy they find day to day in being alive and exploring the world would be shocked out of them. I don't think my oldest daughter has any concept that anyone could kill another person and I love that she believes in the goodness of people and the world.

I do believe that there are certain people or situations where people should be allowed to maintain gun ownership, but it needs to be severely tightened down and an extreme pain-in-the-ass to get and maintain licenses. It should cost lots of money, you should have to go to mandatory training, and you should have to pass a strict psychiatric screen every time you renew. That way only people who absolutely need one will be willing to put up with the pain.

I have a carry conceal pistol permit in New York state. I received it when I was 18 years old (15 years ago). It is good for the rest of my life - and that seems kind of messed up to me. I went through a major life-changing even (going to war) in my 20s and I'm not the same person that I was. I receive treatment for a host of psychiatric issues as a result. I'm not worried about myself perpetrating any acts of violence with a pistol, but (and I hate to admit this) it probably would be a good idea to make sure that guys like me have a little bit of a closer eye kept on them. It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to maybe not allow me to have my pistol permit anymore. It could be called "discrimination" or it could also be called "playing it safe".

[as an aside, my pistol isn't anywhere near my possession and hasn't been in years. It is locked up at my parent's house. With my two little kids I don't feel safe keeping a firearm in my house. Honestly, I don't miss having around me and I don't feel scared without it. I don't foresee me ever wanting to take it back into my possession]

[Tumbulu]

48. Thank you for your post- it should be an OP

I agree with you completely.

I hope it comes to pass. I will work towards that goal.

Thank you for your service.

[judesedit]

44. We have to post the entire 2nd Amendment EVERYWHERE so the idiots can read it and weep. Randi read

it yesterday and it will shut them up pretty much altogether. Of course, the $$$$ gun lobbyists will make up some bullshit, but now everyone will know the truth. That they have been lied to and stirred up into a frenzy by the greedy-ass gun manufacturers that help kill your kids and laugh all the way to the bank.

[Zookeeper]

50. This is a very moving thread. Hockey Mom, PattiP, BlueState,

Hope mountain, Victor....thank you for sharing. I admire your fortitude.

[McCamy Taylor]

51. Thanks for sharing this. I also have PTSD due to my drunk dad waving a gun around

when I was about four. I blacked out a lot of the experience but I am pretty sure that the gun went off, wounding him in the leg, since the next time I saw him he had a big gunshot wound in his thigh. It's a miracle me or my mom did not end up dead.

If someone drives drunk, they go to jail, and yet we let drunk people carry guns.