General Discussion

TeamPooka

(24,223 posts) Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:13 PM Jan 2013

Today's mass shooting: At a college in texas:

But it's not like we have a gun problem or anything, right?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/22/lone-star-college-shooting_n_2527806.html

92 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Today's mass shooting: At a college in texas: (Original Post) TeamPooka Jan 2013 OP

The news should have a daily slot for mass shootings flamingdem Jan 2013 #1

Stuff like that might actually remove the notoriety of school shooters ck4829 Jan 2013 #17

how a national campaign that's pro-suicide? If you are thinking about commiting murder-suicide TeamPooka Jan 2013 #23

The suicidal person could sign up for a simulated mass shooting flamingdem Jan 2013 #27

"If you're thinking about killing 20 schoolkids and then yourself, PLEASE start with yourself." ck4829 Jan 2013 #33

how is it different than don't drink and drive? Publice Service announcements TeamPooka Jan 2013 #38

Absolutely ck4829 Jan 2013 #40

it is crazy but this problem is so extreme my ideas are getting extreme and wacky too. TeamPooka Jan 2013 #46

Not yet certain it qualifies as MASS shooting...so far only 3 wounded are known HereSince1628 Jan 2013 #82

there was a stabbing last week at a bed,bath place- ONE person was hurt graham4anything Jan 2013 #2

and she is alive although in critical condition TeamPooka Jan 2013 #8

The gun nuts will be here shortly to correct you. Hugabear Jan 2013 #12

and with anything but a gun, people can run or have time to throw something graham4anything Jan 2013 #21

22 stabbed in spree in China same day as Newtown but no one died in China TeamPooka Jan 2013 #24

Every night on the local news someone is killed in a drive by Rex Jan 2013 #3

Pretty much the same here too. I stick to the suburbs, but it's getting here too, although RKP5637 Jan 2013 #9

More guns are the answer jpak Jan 2013 #4

Wow, what amazing stupidity shooting a gun in the air. Rex Jan 2013 #26

more guns, lower taxes! napkinz Jan 2013 #42

except property tax Duckhunter935 Jan 2013 #60

There's the poster boy for a Zoeisright Jan 2013 #90

Don't worry about this one, folks...It's all a hoax with Hollywood actors and effects Blue_Tires Jan 2013 #5

Here, there are so many murders, near murders, gunfire and shenanigans it takes up almost RKP5637 Jan 2013 #6

Maybe they can get corporate sponsors..... louis-t Jan 2013 #7

Bushmaster TeamPooka Jan 2013 #10

No, this is not a repeat of yesterday, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, WilliamPitt Jan 2013 #11

It's Groundhog's Day meets Rambo TeamPooka Jan 2013 #13

Wish I could Rec this n/t malaise Jan 2013 #35

My wife is a student at Lone Star College. Waltons_Mtn Jan 2013 #14

maybe it wasn't such a bright idea to have guns on college campuses sasha031 Jan 2013 #15

+1000. n/t pnwmom Jan 2013 #79

Is the gunman still loose. ananda Jan 2013 #16

In Texas, no less Cirque du So-What Jan 2013 #18

it was a gun free zone Duckhunter935 Jan 2013 #29

So are you suggesting Cirque du So-What Jan 2013 #34

no Duckhunter935 Jan 2013 #36

And that begs the question... Cirque du So-What Jan 2013 #41

Or we find better ways to lock up violent people for very long times hack89 Jan 2013 #52

Nobody running the prison system wants violent offenders, they are bad for business Fumesucker Jan 2013 #57

Well, that takes care of part of the problem... Cirque du So-What Jan 2013 #61

That is a mental health issue hack89 Jan 2013 #66

Yes, that part is a bit of a sticky wicket Cirque du So-What Jan 2013 #70

We don't decide matters of civil liberties on "need" hack89 Jan 2013 #73

Obtaining a balance is a price of living in a civilized society Cirque du So-What Jan 2013 #74

Because the problem is not lawful gun owners. hack89 Jan 2013 #75

I disagree Cirque du So-What Jan 2013 #77

We will just have to disagree hack89 Jan 2013 #78

You too Cirque du So-What Jan 2013 #80

That is why Duckhunter935 Jan 2013 #54

All good steps Cirque du So-What Jan 2013 #67

Bad guys like James Holmes, Jared Loughner, Sueng Hui Cho? Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2013 #51

tighten mental standards yes Duckhunter935 Jan 2013 #58

so you see, most of us aren't useless fucking chickenshits DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2013 #69

In Texas? I'll bet half the people on campus carried a gun despite the rules. nt Walk away Jan 2013 #39

Well, I think John2 Jan 2013 #30

is texas the only place you are seeing school shootings, or any other? this is not about texas. seabeyond Jan 2013 #71

No, I was just making an ironic observation Cirque du So-What Jan 2013 #72

The "Massacre du Jour." MineralMan Jan 2013 #19

Live video feed on shooting sasha031 Jan 2013 #20

I very much hope that was supposed to read "live" cthulu2016 Jan 2013 #22

Another video link. Whovian Jan 2013 #25

For god's sake we need to do something. Whovian Jan 2013 #28

College: Shooting was between 2 individuals, victims were caught in the crossfire pinboy3niner Jan 2013 #31

just a different aspect of the same gun violence problem TeamPooka Jan 2013 #49

I will wait for the facts to come out Duckhunter935 Jan 2013 #32

But, that could miss an opportunity to make people fear mentally ill. HereSince1628 Jan 2013 #37

But what you didn't mention is that they were attending a violent video making class! Walk away Jan 2013 #43

They COULD have been coming from a video game, we DON"T KNOW YET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HereSince1628 Jan 2013 #44

Well we know one thing, if they were praying in school, this wouldn't have happened!!!!!! ck4829 Jan 2013 #45

Butttt, my understanding is that the shooters were RIGHTEOUSLY arguing! HereSince1628 Jan 2013 #47

had all students and staff been armed and wore body armor, they could of taken the shooters down sasha031 Jan 2013 #50

I am trying not to imagine a circle of students opening fire on two guys arguing just in case... Walk away Jan 2013 #55

my post was meant for sarcasm sasha031 Jan 2013 #59

I knew you were being sarcastic. So was I but.... Walk away Jan 2013 #63

Scared a 4th person into a heart attack. HereSince1628 Jan 2013 #48

The college has an armed police force yet they were unable to stop or deter the shooting Mike Daniels Jan 2013 #53

i wish 'responsible' gunners would just admit there are 2 yahoos for every three 'normal' gun owners farminator3000 Jan 2013 #56

yep there are idiots out there, not sure of your percentage but they are there Duckhunter935 Jan 2013 #62

All guns are legal. It may have been illegal for one or more of these men... Walk away Jan 2013 #64

true Duckhunter935 Jan 2013 #68

W.r.o.n.g. The MEME is it's the MENTALLY ILL. Forget arguments among gun toters being a bad idea. HereSince1628 Jan 2013 #65

my percentage was way off, probably. the yahoo % is way higher, i'm sure farminator3000 Jan 2013 #76

and how many firearms Duckhunter935 Jan 2013 #81

amazing what you can find on these internets, huh? farminator3000 Jan 2013 #84

good jod, hardly biased I know Duckhunter935 Jan 2013 #86

so obviously laws should be made so everyone with a gun is required to have a permit farminator3000 Jan 2013 #87

I have no problem with that Duckhunter935 Jan 2013 #89

its hard to keep track of who thinks what around here farminator3000 Jan 2013 #92

Interacting with the pro-gunners here on DU makes me now believe that NOTHING can be done CTyankee Jan 2013 #83

So: Why Didn't This College's Second Amendment Academy Prevent This Shooting? Paladin Jan 2013 #85

maybe somebody spilled coffee on the 1st half of the 2nd amendment? farminator3000 Jan 2013 #88

The 1st Half Of The 2nd? Paladin Jan 2013 #91

flamingdem

(39,313 posts)

1. The news should have a daily slot for mass shootings

Reply to TeamPooka (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:15 PM

Jan 2013

Like sports, or the weather, it's that common. This way they could re-use the graphics and spend less.

ck4829

(35,069 posts)

17. Stuff like that might actually remove the notoriety of school shooters

Reply to flamingdem (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:29 PM

Jan 2013

If "Another school shooting? (yawn)" prevents some school shootings because people think nobody cared about them in life or they want to go out in some sort of blaze of misguided glory, then it may be a far better solution then branding people on anti-depressants.

TeamPooka

(24,223 posts)

23. how a national campaign that's pro-suicide? If you are thinking about commiting murder-suicide

Reply to ck4829 (Reply #17)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:35 PM

Jan 2013

start with the suicide.
and I think I'm only half sarcastic here.

flamingdem

(39,313 posts)

27. The suicidal person could sign up for a simulated mass shooting

Reply to TeamPooka (Reply #23)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:41 PM

Jan 2013

in a virtual reality setup and then actually get shot by an actor wearing a police uniform -- thus they could get the final rush they seem to be seeking?

This would increase employment of actors as a plus

ck4829

(35,069 posts)

33. "If you're thinking about killing 20 schoolkids and then yourself, PLEASE start with yourself."

Reply to TeamPooka (Reply #23)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:44 PM

Jan 2013

It does sound much better than "And we'll make what you did national news for a month."

TeamPooka

(24,223 posts)

38. how is it different than don't drink and drive? Publice Service announcements

Reply to ck4829 (Reply #33)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:50 PM

Jan 2013

saved the lives of innocents from many drunk drivers.
Let's change the way people think a little and if we lose some of the sociopathicly homicidal to suicide.
i just don't want to take innocent confused kids with normal problems who don't want to kill others to get the wrong idea because it does get better as they say.

ck4829

(35,069 posts)

40. Absolutely

Reply to TeamPooka (Reply #38)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:54 PM

Jan 2013

Another PSA could be "Hey, if you're thinking about going on a spree shooting, you're going to be dead... You might not get mentioned at all in the news. You won't know."

Deny them infamy.

TeamPooka

(24,223 posts)

46. it is crazy but this problem is so extreme my ideas are getting extreme and wacky too.

Reply to ck4829 (Reply #40)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:59 PM

Jan 2013

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)

82. Not yet certain it qualifies as MASS shooting...so far only 3 wounded are known

Reply to flamingdem (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:36 PM

Jan 2013

and since there were two opposing shooters, I don't know if we must dived the wounded by 2 to get to a proper evaluatin.

graham4anything

(11,464 posts)

2. there was a stabbing last week at a bed,bath place- ONE person was hurt

Reply to TeamPooka (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:17 PM

Jan 2013

not 2 not 10 not 20 not 100
one

you cannot do the damage with anything but a gun that a gun does

guns kill, guns harm, guns terrorize

I am sure the NRA thinks, if only that guy with a knife at BBB had a gun, he could have hurt more than one person.

and the shootings will continue til the last gun is taken off the streets and anyplace that one has to go from a private home to a place on the street or one accessed by the street (which is anyplace a private home isn't.)

the NRA should have to pay all bills from anyone hurt by a gun.

TeamPooka

(24,223 posts)

8. and she is alive although in critical condition

Reply to graham4anything (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:20 PM

Jan 2013

Hugabear

(10,340 posts)

12. The gun nuts will be here shortly to correct you.

Reply to graham4anything (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:21 PM

Jan 2013

They'll point out a few isolated cases where someone went on a stabbing spree.

Key word - isolated. They tend to overlook that part, and would have us believe that mass-stabbings would be as frequent as mass-shootings.

graham4anything

(11,464 posts)

21. and with anything but a gun, people can run or have time to throw something

Reply to Hugabear (Reply #12)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:34 PM

Jan 2013

the person with the knife can throw his knife, however, that leaves him without a knife
(or whatever else he has but a gun).
And a cop can disable someone with a knife.

A gun is also the only basic thing that keeps going (because everyone needs 100, 1000, 5000 bullets (or whatever the'uck they call the things(I know the gun lovers will bring in a minutia point).

protest groups should protest the NRA in their Fairfax, Va. headquarters (assuming it would be safe to do so, as the tea party gun nuts did at 2010 townhalls).

and why are they tax exempt?
from wiki-
According to the Better Business Bureau's web site, the NRA does not fall within the BBB's scope of Standards for Charity Accountability. They do note the following financials for the NRA as of December 31, 2004. The NRA's CEO, Wayne LaPierre, received a yearly salary of $895,897 in 2004. They also indicated that fundraising costs accounted for 46% of the contributions received. The NRA is a 501(c)(4) organization and indicated that the NRA's total income in 2004 was $205,402,491 and had expenses of $206,886,970. Total NRA assets at the end of 2004 were $222,841,128.

According to published statements[72] total income for 2011 was $218,983,530 with total expenses of $231,071,589

TeamPooka

(24,223 posts)

24. 22 stabbed in spree in China same day as Newtown but no one died in China

Reply to Hugabear (Reply #12)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:37 PM

Jan 2013

Rex

(65,616 posts)

3. Every night on the local news someone is killed in a drive by

Reply to TeamPooka (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:17 PM

Jan 2013

with a gun or someone is robbed and killed with a gun. Every DAM night.

RKP5637

(67,107 posts)

9. Pretty much the same here too. I stick to the suburbs, but it's getting here too, although

Reply to Rex (Reply #3)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:20 PM

Jan 2013

far less.

jpak

(41,757 posts)

4. More guns are the answer

Reply to TeamPooka (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:18 PM

Jan 2013

not

Rex

(65,616 posts)

26. Wow, what amazing stupidity shooting a gun in the air.

Reply to jpak (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:40 PM

Jan 2013

How does that man find work!?!? I never thought my state could get any more fucked up than when GWB was guvnor. Oh how wrong I was!

Just LOOKING at that picture makes me cringe.

napkinz

(17,199 posts)

42. more guns, lower taxes!

Reply to jpak (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:56 PM

Jan 2013

the GOP panacea

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)

60. except property tax

Reply to napkinz (Reply #42)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:17 PM

Jan 2013

they kill you on that. I am so glad I moved.

Zoeisright

(8,339 posts)

90. There's the poster boy for a

Reply to jpak (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 06:35 PM

Jan 2013

frustrated little fucker with a tiny dick.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)

5. Don't worry about this one, folks...It's all a hoax with Hollywood actors and effects

Reply to TeamPooka (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:19 PM

Jan 2013

RKP5637

(67,107 posts)

6. Here, there are so many murders, near murders, gunfire and shenanigans it takes up almost

Reply to TeamPooka (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:19 PM

Jan 2013

the entire local news slot.

louis-t

(23,292 posts)

7. Maybe they can get corporate sponsors.....

Reply to TeamPooka (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:19 PM

Jan 2013

"Today's mass killing brought to you by...."

TeamPooka

(24,223 posts)

10. Bushmaster

Reply to louis-t (Reply #7)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:20 PM

Jan 2013

WilliamPitt

(58,179 posts)

11. No, this is not a repeat of yesterday, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before,

Reply to TeamPooka (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:21 PM

Jan 2013

or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or 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before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before...

TeamPooka

(24,223 posts)

13. It's Groundhog's Day meets Rambo

Reply to WilliamPitt (Reply #11)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:22 PM

Jan 2013

malaise

(268,967 posts)

35. Wish I could Rec this n/t

Reply to WilliamPitt (Reply #11)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:46 PM

Jan 2013

Waltons_Mtn

(345 posts)

14. My wife is a student at Lone Star College.

Reply to TeamPooka (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:24 PM

Jan 2013

She attends a different campus, but still. Very disturbing.

sasha031

(6,700 posts)

15. maybe it wasn't such a bright idea to have guns on college campuses

Reply to TeamPooka (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:25 PM

Jan 2013

oohh, never mind....

I'm so sorry, hope she is safe

pnwmom

(108,977 posts)

79. +1000. n/t

Reply to sasha031 (Reply #15)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:31 PM

Jan 2013

ananda

(28,858 posts)

16. Is the gunman still loose.

Reply to TeamPooka (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:26 PM

Jan 2013

All the schools in the area are on lockdown.

Cirque du So-What

(25,932 posts)

18. In Texas, no less

Reply to TeamPooka (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:30 PM

Jan 2013

Isn't Texas supposed to be the nation's gun-totin' paradise? Weren't there any 'good guys with guns' around to take out this guy at the first hint of a massacre in progress? It's obvious that there aren't enough guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens at all times. Perhaps it's time to enact 'mandatory carry' laws to make school campuses safer.

And although it's ironic that I must add this...

And now that I've gotten that out of my system...

I cannot decide whether I am more saddened or outraged by this announcement. The time for 'debate' is over AFAIC.

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)

29. it was a gun free zone

Reply to Cirque du So-What (Reply #18)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:41 PM

Jan 2013

the good guys obey the law

Cirque du So-What

(25,932 posts)

34. So are you suggesting

Reply to Duckhunter935 (Reply #29)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:45 PM

Jan 2013

as I did in jest, that *more* firearms are the answer? Please proceed, Governor!

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)

36. no

Reply to Cirque du So-What (Reply #34)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:47 PM

Jan 2013

just that bad guys do not obey laws. Even the new ones that some want passed.

Cirque du So-What

(25,932 posts)

41. And that begs the question...

Reply to Duckhunter935 (Reply #36)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:55 PM

Jan 2013

if bad guys are going to shoot up the place anyway, the most logical solution, as I see it, is to limit their availability in the first fucking place. Either guns or ammunition. Or both. The gun lobby has had their way for too long, ensuring through means - both legal and illegal - that guns are as common as tinkertoys. It didn't get that way overnight, so the problem won't go away overnight either, but the longer we as a society waffle over the issue, the longer it will take to make a dent in the gun glut that ensures easy access by anyone who wants one, regardless of legality.

hack89

(39,171 posts)

52. Or we find better ways to lock up violent people for very long times

Reply to Cirque du So-What (Reply #41)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:08 PM

Jan 2013

if we were to focus the justice system on violent offenders instead of non-violent drug users, we could make some serious inroads into gun violence.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)

57. Nobody running the prison system wants violent offenders, they are bad for business

Reply to hack89 (Reply #52)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:14 PM

Jan 2013

Non violent drug offenders are much more profitable, they can be put right to work with only minimal supervision.

Cirque du So-What

(25,932 posts)

61. Well, that takes care of part of the problem...

Reply to hack89 (Reply #52)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:20 PM

Jan 2013

but, unless I'm mistaken (and I'm not), the recent spate of gun massacres involved shooters with no prior criminal record. Hell, the only *real* person, still surviving, who could recall any human interaction with the Sandy Hook murderer was a woman who cut his hair - practically the only thing he couldn't do for himself or have done through interaction online. He was a citizen of only the virtual world, and before going on this killing spree and killing himself, he committed 'digital suicide' by destroying the hard drive of his computer. Pity, that. It would have given at least some insight to what was going on in his head up to that point.

but I digress...

Yes, I agree with you on the part about stiffer sentences for violent offenders (of any sort) as well as the unfairness inherent to locking up nonviolent drug offenders, but there's still a big, glaring problem where the 'quiet, kept to himself' type goes off the deep end without any warning.

hack89

(39,171 posts)

66. That is a mental health issue

Reply to Cirque du So-What (Reply #61)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:33 PM

Jan 2013

When you consider that the majority of gun deaths are suicides, single payer health care with mental health coverage will save more lives then most of the proposals being discussed.

We certainly can start putting people with mental issues into state databases to insure they cannot own or buy guns - that's New York's solutions. But it is not too hard to see the legal and moral difficulties it may create.

Cirque du So-What

(25,932 posts)

70. Yes, that part is a bit of a sticky wicket

Reply to hack89 (Reply #66)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:50 PM

Jan 2013

That's why I believe the solution lies on the supply side. There are so many guns currently in circulation that I could, if I wanted to, purchase a firearm on the black market or from an unscrupulous dealer with a great deal more ease than I could purchase, say, an automobile the same way. If that means people must put as much financial planning into purchasing a firearm as they do an automobile, so be it. Does anyone need ten times more guns than automobiles anyway?

hack89

(39,171 posts)

73. We don't decide matters of civil liberties on "need"

Reply to Cirque du So-What (Reply #70)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:02 PM

Jan 2013

that is the beauty of constitutional rights - "because" is a perfectly fine answer. You cannot punish legal gun owners because there are some that want to end their own lives.

Cirque du So-What

(25,932 posts)

74. Obtaining a balance is a price of living in a civilized society

Reply to hack89 (Reply #73)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:08 PM

Jan 2013

and if that means lawful gun owners must make sacrifices in order to make society safer, tough titty toenail. All of us make these sacrifices and compromises; paying our taxes is the first example that comes to mind. Why are lawful gun owners exempt from having to do the same thing - as opposed to, say, everyone else?

hack89

(39,171 posts)

75. Because the problem is not lawful gun owners.

Reply to Cirque du So-What (Reply #74)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:16 PM

Jan 2013

I support the president's EOS. I support universal background checks and limits on magazine size.

The problem is violent criminals and mental health. Fix the root problems.

Cirque du So-What

(25,932 posts)

77. I disagree

Reply to hack89 (Reply #75)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:26 PM

Jan 2013

and I grow weary of repeating myself. As I've *already* pointed out, the murderers in the latest spate of gun massacres have been squeaky-clean in the eyes of law enforcement, so 'violent criminals' doesn't even enter into that equation. Plus, I've also stated agreement that violent criminals deserve longer removal from society, so I'm not arguing that point. I've *also* already pointed out that mental-health screening will not identify every potential murderer for reasons I am not going to belabor *again*; if you're so inclined, knock yerself out.

Also, as has been argued ad nauseam, every bad guy, regardless of criminal record or mental-health record, can obtain a gun if they want to badly enough...and THAT, in a nutshell, is the ROOT of the problem. Guns are too damned available. Shut down the 'iron pipelines' that funnel firearms from states with loosey-goosey regulations on the books *cough*Texas*cough* into urban areas that are bleeding rivers from these cheap, readily-available weapons - aided & abetted by munitions manufacturers, their lobbyists and bought-and-paid-for politicians who profit handsomely from the bidness of murder.

hack89

(39,171 posts)

78. We will just have to disagree

Reply to Cirque du So-What (Reply #77)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:29 PM

Jan 2013

have a good evening.

Cirque du So-What

(25,932 posts)

80. You too

Reply to hack89 (Reply #78)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:33 PM

Jan 2013

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)

54. That is why

Reply to Cirque du So-What (Reply #41)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:11 PM

Jan 2013

I am open to sensible legislation. Background checks for all transfers. Enforce current laws and fund law enforcement. Fund mental health fully, because most of these shooters have had mental issues or are on some kind of medication. Ammunition can be a little trickier as a mass shooting only needs a handful of rounds, and sport shooters can go through thousands on a weekend. Do not regulate the looks of a gun, if you are going to do go after the function and keep it simple.

Cirque du So-What

(25,932 posts)

67. All good steps

Reply to Duckhunter935 (Reply #54)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:42 PM

Jan 2013

but they fall short of addressing the root of the problem: accessibility. There are too many guns available to anyone who is intent upon obtaining one.

Background checks may not uncover those who do not show up on any 'radar screens,' either because they have never committed a crime previously (as in the case of the Sandy Hook murderer) or because they don't have access to mental-health care - a distinct possibility in a time when many are without insurance that covers psychiatric care or are otherwise too poor to afford it.

Ammunition is a problem, and I suggest that the requirements to purchase it should be just as stringent as those for purchasing a firearm. Sure, self-loading is a possibility, but it adds steps that require a modicum of skill, and that may be just enough to dissuade some would-be murderers from loading their own.

I have no illusions concerning the appearance of a firearm; they are all potentially deadly, and it doesn't make sense to focus upon the cosmetic components when it rightly belongs upon function.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,181 posts)

51. Bad guys like James Holmes, Jared Loughner, Sueng Hui Cho?

Reply to Duckhunter935 (Reply #36)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:07 PM

Jan 2013

All legal, law abiding gun owners. Until they weren't.

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)

58. tighten mental standards yes

Reply to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #51)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:14 PM

Jan 2013

They should not have been able to get weapons as they had a history of mental problems. We need to get better crosschecking on the NICS database to catch these people.

DisgustipatedinCA

(12,530 posts)

69. so you see, most of us aren't useless fucking chickenshits

Reply to Duckhunter935 (Reply #36)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:49 PM

Jan 2013

Which means that we can pass laws without being fearful of how those laws will be received by some inbred gunlicker. Why are you so frightened of these people?

Walk away

(9,494 posts)

39. In Texas? I'll bet half the people on campus carried a gun despite the rules. nt

Reply to Duckhunter935 (Reply #29)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:54 PM

Jan 2013

John2

(2,730 posts)

30. Well, I think

Reply to Cirque du So-What (Reply #18)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:42 PM

Jan 2013

we need to wait for more facts in this case. The initial reports sounds like a shoot out at the O.K. corral and one person just got the drop on the other person like something out of a Western. It doesn't matter whether you are good or bad. It could just be a matter of the gun culture. When you got everybody carrying guns, your character doesn't matter. Someone like Billy the Kid and Jessie James should have taught people that.

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)

71. is texas the only place you are seeing school shootings, or any other? this is not about texas.

Reply to Cirque du So-What (Reply #18)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:51 PM

Jan 2013

it is about the nation, our guns, and our lack of value for life.

Cirque du So-What

(25,932 posts)

72. No, I was just making an ironic observation

Reply to seabeyond (Reply #71)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:52 PM

Jan 2013

Agreed, it's about the entire nation - not just Texas.

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)

19. The "Massacre du Jour."

Reply to TeamPooka (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:30 PM

Jan 2013

Uff da!

sasha031

(6,700 posts)

20. Live video feed on shooting

Reply to TeamPooka (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:31 PM

Jan 2013

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/01/22/watch-live-reports-of-three-people-shot-at-lone-star-college-in-texas/

cthulu2016

(10,960 posts)

22. I very much hope that was supposed to read "live"

Reply to sasha031 (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:35 PM

Jan 2013

Whovian

(2,866 posts)

25. Another video link.

Reply to TeamPooka (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:39 PM

Jan 2013

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=8963781

Whovian

(2,866 posts)

28. For god's sake we need to do something.

Reply to TeamPooka (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:41 PM

Jan 2013

This is FUBAR.

pinboy3niner

(53,339 posts)

31. College: Shooting was between 2 individuals, victims were caught in the crossfire

Reply to TeamPooka (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:44 PM

Jan 2013

Per college communications director, on CNN via telephone just now.

TeamPooka

(24,223 posts)

49. just a different aspect of the same gun violence problem

Reply to pinboy3niner (Reply #31)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:04 PM

Jan 2013

are they legal or illegal guns?
If they are illegal then we need stricter registration and tracking from the manufacturers to prevent this.
If you want to get the cash out of gangs that bu7y weapons like this we have to legalize, regulate, license and tax drugs like booze.
Then the gangs go back to being street gangs, not drug cartels.

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)

32. I will wait for the facts to come out

Reply to TeamPooka (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:44 PM

Jan 2013

but now sounds like an argument between two students that were already breaking current law by having firearms in a gun free zone. I hope they are punished to the full extent of the law.

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)

37. But, that could miss an opportunity to make people fear mentally ill.

Reply to Duckhunter935 (Reply #32)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:49 PM

Jan 2013

There is a MEME that needs supporting. How the hell do you think t-hadi legislatures across the country will avoid gun control if we don't create a climate that DEMANDs lunatic control????????????

Walk away

(9,494 posts)

43. But what you didn't mention is that they were attending a violent video making class!

Reply to HereSince1628 (Reply #37)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:57 PM

Jan 2013

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)

44. They COULD have been coming from a video game, we DON"T KNOW YET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reply to Walk away (Reply #43)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:58 PM

Jan 2013

ck4829

(35,069 posts)

45. Well we know one thing, if they were praying in school, this wouldn't have happened!!!!!!

Reply to HereSince1628 (Reply #44)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:59 PM

Jan 2013

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)

47. Butttt, my understanding is that the shooters were RIGHTEOUSLY arguing!

Reply to ck4829 (Reply #45)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:00 PM

Jan 2013

sasha031

(6,700 posts)

50. had all students and staff been armed and wore body armor, they could of taken the shooters down

Reply to HereSince1628 (Reply #47)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:05 PM

Jan 2013

before a shot was fired

Walk away

(9,494 posts)

55. I am trying not to imagine a circle of students opening fire on two guys arguing just in case...

Reply to sasha031 (Reply #50)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:11 PM

Jan 2013

they might shoot each other.

sasha031

(6,700 posts)

59. my post was meant for sarcasm

Reply to Walk away (Reply #55)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:16 PM

Jan 2013

should of made that clear

listening to one of the students, via CNN said she thought her campus was safe due to armed security, thought this would never happen there.

Walk away

(9,494 posts)

63. I knew you were being sarcastic. So was I but....

Reply to sasha031 (Reply #59)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:25 PM

Jan 2013

like your post, it was a kind of scary/sad/true sarcasm.

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)

48. Scared a 4th person into a heart attack.

Reply to TeamPooka (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:01 PM

Jan 2013

Mike Daniels

(5,842 posts)

53. The college has an armed police force yet they were unable to stop or deter the shooting

Reply to TeamPooka (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:09 PM

Jan 2013

http://www.lonestar.edu/campus-police.htm

So, how does the NRA respond given their knee-jerk defense of how armed security would prevent future school shootings?

farminator3000

(2,117 posts)

56. i wish 'responsible' gunners would just admit there are 2 yahoos for every three 'normal' gun owners

Reply to TeamPooka (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:13 PM

Jan 2013

Latest reports are suggesting the shooting occurred during an argument involving two males and one pulled a gun and opened fire, wounding at least three people, including one of the men involved in the argument.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/8211729/Texas-school-in-lockdown-as-shots-fired

KVUE reported that one male had been brought out of the library on a stretcher and he was reportedly handcuffed while a woman was being treated by emergency personnel.

wtf?

one guy drew a gun,, the other shot him and bolted? maybe?

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)

62. yep there are idiots out there, not sure of your percentage but they are there

Reply to farminator3000 (Reply #56)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:23 PM

Jan 2013

I would be interested to see if the weapons were legal and if they were even eligible to have them. My guess is they were not. they definitely did not pay attention to the no guns sign.

Walk away

(9,494 posts)

64. All guns are legal. It may have been illegal for one or more of these men...

Reply to Duckhunter935 (Reply #62)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:30 PM

Jan 2013

to carry or own them but thanks to the NRA no guns are illegal.

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)

68. true

Reply to Walk away (Reply #64)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:46 PM

Jan 2013

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)

65. W.r.o.n.g. The MEME is it's the MENTALLY ILL. Forget arguments among gun toters being a bad idea.

Reply to Duckhunter935 (Reply #62)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:30 PM

Jan 2013

It's the lunatics.

farminator3000

(2,117 posts)

76. my percentage was way off, probably. the yahoo % is way higher, i'm sure

Reply to Duckhunter935 (Reply #62)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:19 PM

Jan 2013

3 to 2 is just based on 40% of sales being illegal

this percentage is pretty ugly:
So-called justifiable homicides nearly doubled from 2000 to 2010, the most recent data available, when 326 were reported, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis of crime statistics from all 50 states. Over that same 11-year period, total killings averaged roughly 16,000 a year, according to the state figures, which the Journal obtained from the Federal Bureau of Investigation and from Florida.

slightly over 2% of homicides are ok?

meaning just under 98% are NOT good?

um? too many guns maybe?

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)

81. and how many firearms

Reply to farminator3000 (Reply #76)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:35 PM

Jan 2013

are out there and total number of gun owners. How many CCW carriers commit crimes? How many are suicides. Numbers can say anything you want them to.

farminator3000

(2,117 posts)

84. amazing what you can find on these internets, huh?

Reply to Duckhunter935 (Reply #81)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:46 PM

Jan 2013

Background

In 1996 at a Dallas, Texas, press conference, Tanya Metaksa, then the executive director of the National Rifle Association's Institute for Legislative Action, promised, "As we get more information about right-to-carry, our point is made again and again...People who get permits in states which have fair right-to-carry laws are law-abiding, upstanding community leaders who merely seek to exercise their right to self-defense." This assertion, summarized by Metaksa in the blunt and absolute assertion that "these citizens don't commit violent crimes," was a key factor when state legislatures debated weakening concealed weapons laws to allow private citizens to carry concealed handguns in public. Had the NRA informed policymakers that concealed handgun permit holders would routinely be killing law enforcement personnel and perpetrating, rather than preventing, mass murders and other gun homicides few legislators--applying Metaksa's own standard--would have voted in favor of such laws.
http://www.vpc.org/ccwkillers.htm

499 people killed, 23 mass murders. by ccws. 35 murder suicides, 14 cops.

more guns than people or cars.

~100 million gun owners (~40 million criminals)

more suicides than murders.

less than 400 justifiable homicides.

what do those numbers tell ya?

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)

86. good jod, hardly biased I know

Reply to farminator3000 (Reply #84)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 06:13 PM

Jan 2013

How many total CCW permits are out there?

http://legallyarmed.com/ccw_statistics.htm

now what is the percentage, lets see less than 500 total on your site, and probably close to if not more than a million CCW holders.

farminator3000

(2,117 posts)

87. so obviously laws should be made so everyone with a gun is required to have a permit

Reply to Duckhunter935 (Reply #86)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 06:22 PM

Jan 2013

and register the gun with the government.

you are a great advocate for gun control laws, thanks!

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)

89. I have no problem with that

Reply to farminator3000 (Reply #87)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 06:32 PM

Jan 2013

I have done it and I have completed training on use and safety. Others may, Hell all of my information is out there anyway after 20 years in the military. I do find it funny that a lot of people think that us gun owners are all for no rules at all like we are all exactly the same. Now since I have a CCW and have to get it renewed do I have to have a waiting period on another weapon since I already own one? Do I have to go through another full background check at an FFL or can I just show them my license to carry? I paid several hundred dollars for it and had to send my fingerprints into the feds. It even states what type of handgun I can carry.

farminator3000

(2,117 posts)

92. its hard to keep track of who thinks what around here

Reply to Duckhunter935 (Reply #89)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 08:10 PM

Jan 2013

http://www.vice.com/read/guns-in-the-sun-004469-v19n12

that ^^^ is kind nuts, you'd have to admit.

if this was not the case-
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022225060

more people would be like you, AND you would be hassled less...

CTyankee

(63,911 posts)

83. Interacting with the pro-gunners here on DU makes me now believe that NOTHING can be done

Reply to TeamPooka (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:42 PM

Jan 2013

to stop these shootings, absolutely NOTHING! No matter what is proposed. There are ALWAYS problems...

Paladin

(28,254 posts)

85. So: Why Didn't This College's Second Amendment Academy Prevent This Shooting?

Reply to TeamPooka (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 06:03 PM

Jan 2013

That's right---there's a Second Amendment Academy associated with the Lone Star College. Check out the OP link for details.

farminator3000

(2,117 posts)

88. maybe somebody spilled coffee on the 1st half of the 2nd amendment?

Reply to Paladin (Reply #85)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 06:26 PM

Jan 2013

or the dog ate it?

kind of like this oldie but goodie-

The Second's Missing Half
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
—By Mother Jones
| January/February 1994 Issue
Emblazoned across the front of the NRA headquarters in Washington, D.C., is half of this amendment--the second half.

Paladin

(28,254 posts)

91. The 1st Half Of The 2nd?

Reply to farminator3000 (Reply #88)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 07:27 PM

Jan 2013

Yeah, let's all thank Antonin "Look Upon My Hat, Protestants, And Tremble!" Scalia for that cut-and-paste job on a part of the Bill of Rights that didn't suit him or the NRA. Judicial activism? What judicial activism?

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