Reason people buy AR-15 type guns is similar to the reason why people buy Huge SUVs...

[srican69]

Its been shown that SUV's are LESS safe compared to cars. When you include the probability of rollovers - its more likely that you will be hurt in one rather than in a humble car. But people continued to buy them, despite evidence to the contrary to the most cited reason viz.. " I want to feel safer" ...(a trend that continued until they got slammed by high oil prices).

A psychologist ( I forget his name) did a study ( that included the subjects being interviewed in partial state of sleep) and came to the conclusion that the reason people bought the vehicles was that the increased ground clearance gave them a feeling of superiority on the roads .. and that subconscious emotion was the main driver of the decision, more than any rational reason they gave when fully on guard.

My guess is that having a gun appeals to some reptilian primal instinct that is beyond all the prefrontal cortex reasoning that you can come up with .

I think we need to factor this while having a conversation with those gun totting reptiles ...

[DainBramaged]

1. Husbands buy huge SUV's for their wives and kids because big means more protection

I drove behind a woman in a Suburban a couple of weeks ago who could barely see over the sterring wheel. She had kids and a dog with her.


Your logic is fail

[srican69]

2. There is a peer reviewed study on this .. I am not giving my 'opinion'

[DainBramaged]

3. Fail

simply fail

have a nice day

[srican69]

4. if you say so.

[KansDem]

81. I remember this study of Hummer drivers...

Hummer Owners Claim Moral High Ground To Excuse Overconsumption, Study Finds

Sep. 25, 2009 — Hummer drivers believe they are defending America's frontier lifestyle against anti-American critics, according to a new study in the Journal of Consumer Research.

"As we studied American Hummer owners and their ideological beliefs, we found that they consider Hummer driving a highly moral consumption choice," write the authors. "For Hummer owners it is possible to claim the moral high ground."

The authors explain that Hummer owners employ the ideology of American foundational myths, such as the "rugged individual," and the "boundless frontier" to construct themselves as moral protagonists. They often believe they represent a bastion again anti-American discourses evoked by their critics.

"Our analysis of the underlying American identity discourses revealed that being under siege by (moral) critics is an historically established feature of being an American," write the authors. "The moralistic critique of their consumption choices readily inspired Hummer owners to adopt the role of the moral protagonist who defends American national ideals."

--more--
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090921162156.htm

I don't know about monster SUVs and pickups, but Hummer drivers considered themselves to be "rugged individuals."

[MichaelHarris]

176. Some of us need

SUVs and trucks to get out of the snow and to places like jobs and to buy groceries.

[HubertHeaver]

179. That is why I had one back when.

I had a Firebird and a full-sized Blazer. Snowdrifts blocked the Firebird in the garage on New Year's Eve. I wasn't able to get it out until late March.

[JDPriestly]

191. That would not explain SUVs in Southern California.

We don't have snow. Most of the SUV drivers in Southern California just want to take up a lot of room and feel big.

That is also true of hobby truck drivers, people who live in the city and drive trucks when they don't need them for work or even sport.

There is somebody near us who has a gangsta' truck. It has giant wheels and the doors are raised up at least four feet above the ground. We walked past today and my husband asked, "How do they get in their?" We think they must use some sort of step-ladder.

When you have people who park their SUVs in the compact car spaces at Trader Joe's and drive trucks that can be entered only with a ladder, you know you are dealing with people who do not think like most of us do. Same with people who just have to have extremely powerful guns. There is something going on in the psyche that makes them, shall we say, "exceptional" in some way.

What can you do with those super-powerful rifles other than shoot them on a range somewhere? Is it really such a thrill? I suppose it makes a lot of noise. And what do those things do to your eardrums even if you have special protection for your ears?

I just think a lot of people are a little nutty.

[MichaelHarris]

192. I don't know them

therefore I won't judge or determine their needs, maybe they have a cabin, family in the mountains, dunno, not my place to judge their needs.

[FrodosPet]

227. In Michigan, during a snowstorm, the easiest place to find an SUV

Is in the median or the ditch.

Many of the drivers have no clue that, while 4WD helps get you through the snow, on ice all you have are 4 spinning wheels.

[frylock]

20. can't argue with logic like that..

someone struck a nerve.

[Squinch]

80. What? You don't find "Fail!" to be a compelling argument?

I am always surprised that people think they've said anything when they say, "Fail!"

I think, when I disagree with someone, I'm going to start saying, "Doorknob!" Because, really, who could argue with that?

[DainBramaged]

99. Fail

there you get one too

[Squinch]

103. Doorknob

[DainBramaged]

104. Ignored

[Squinch]

114. Yay!

[sharp_stick]

170. You should get a gold star

or something for that.

[Squinch]

171. Thank you !

[muriel_volestrangler]

199. Only one prize is suitable:

https://www.ithaca.edu/depts/i/Mazzocone,_Carraro/24875_photo.jpg

[Squinch]

221. .

[Major Nikon]

181. You win

[we can do it]

122. BWAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA

[Squinch]

123. Thanks!

[we can do it]

85. +1000

[diphthong]

10. Link?

n/t

[srican69]

23. I cant find the peer reviewed article but here is the interview on CBS 60 minutes

Clotaire Rapaille - SUVs and the Reptilian Brain (60 Minutes)

[KittyWampus]

52. Go back to DU v.2 and search under my old name "Cryingshame". I posted this info numerous times.

[KittyWampus]

54. Starting to search old info:

3. Intimidation: This is related to safety, because how we drive is at least as important as what we drive. When one feels immune to risk, one tends to act less safely.
You may have seen the recent “60 Minutes” story about SUVs, which quoted a psychologist and automobile-industry consultant about why people buy SUVs. He said that it’s not about safety or roominess or any of the other reasons people cite. And of course a very small minority of SUV owners actually take their vehicles off-road. Most of them don’t have the undercarriage clearance to do so anyway.
The psychologist said the real reason is that people want to project a tough and intimidating image when they drive down the street. Ads for SUVs certainly tap into this motivation. General Motors in particular has been aggressive in marketing its Cadillac Escalade, in commercials in which trains stop at railroad crossings to let the Escalade pass, and other cars scurry away when the Escalade shows up.

[leveymg]

62. Same psychology as the bullet bumpers on the '55 Cad - "don't mess with me" message to others.

Like the teeth on a warthog:



Some things don't change: particularly, GM and the psychology of a certain segment of American consumers - the insecure rich.

[Jackpine Radical]

28. Please provide enough information so I can hunt down that study.

[srican69]

30. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cbq6lUgG8gA

watch all the way until 8:05

[Eleanors38]

34. Is the study about cars "peer-reviewed," or your opinion about AR-15s and reptiles?

[Jackpine Radical]

39. A search of Psychlit shows no peer-reviewed articles for Clotaire Rapaille.

The closest is J.P. Rapaille, a Belgian psychologist who has published a couple of French-language studies on aptitude & intelligence testing.

Clotaire Rapaille has written an article in Forbes & consults to marketing departments, but is actually a psychiatrist and does not publish in peer-reviewed journals.

[KittyWampus]

56. "peer reviewed" is the most absurdly overused DU phrase. Rapaille makes a living on marketing psych

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-562824.html

Dr. Clotaire Rapaille, a psychologist, makes a living explaining that need to major corporations like the Detroit "Big Three" and European auto-makers.

"The notion of need is very, very interesting. Because what do we really need, you see? I need food, I need water. I need shelter," says Rapaille. "And you know that, but then there are other needs, needs of identity. Needs of communication. Needs of being loved, being respected."

And the need for cars.

"Absolutely. Cars are very key," adds Rapaille. "They are an expression of myself. You know, this is maybe the best way for Americans to express themselves."

That's why ads show SUVs bouncing up mountains and fording streams, even though the automakers know only about five percent of owners ever go off-road. The reality is that the two-ton, four-wheel-drive behemoth carries more carrots than climbing gear, and it's just the ticket for lugging that ton of household bills.

Rapaille no longer sees patients. He doesn't need to, because he's paid well to supply his insights to corporate America - and lives in baronial splendor outside of New York City.

Apart from Ford, GM and Chrysler, he's advised companies like Kelloggs, Kraft, and Proctor & Gamble. They pay him to get inside the deepest recesses of our brains. In fact, he's known as the "car shrink" in Detroit.

"Why do you buy a car that doesn't even make 10 miles per gallon, doesn't fit into your garage? Do you really need that? And you don't need that intellectually," he says. "But at the reptilian level, what I call the reptilian level, the reptilian brain, the deepest part of you, the gut level if you want, you feel like you need that."
If Rapaille were an SUV, he'd be a Freud Explorer. He says people are completely unaware of the subconscious, reptilian reasons why they're drawn to SUVs.

[Yavin4]

77. "four-wheel-drive behemoth carries more carrots than climbing gear" Americans? "carrots"?

I highly doubt that.

[we can do it]

136. Big macs?

[Yavin4]

140. Much better n/t

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

108. the appeal of "peer reviewed" is the peers doing the reviewing...

tend to swing much closer to some of DU's more eccentric elements than the mainstream.

[tblue37]

128. "Freud Explorer"!! Great pun. nt

[we can do it]

167. Almost as good as a Freud Probe?

[deutsey]

197. Sounds like he's following in the footsteps of Edward Bernays

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays

[Eleanors38]

64. Thanks for the info. Sounded pretty cantilevered.

[KittyWampus]

53. One of the men who was involved in the marketing wrote about this.

[Eleanors38]

66. Marketing what, SUVs or AR 15s? And what is the import of this? Thanks.

[ZombieHorde]

6. Will you please explain the failure in logic?

I would love to see you break down the argument.

[Taverner]

12. It depends on who you ask...

http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/EETD-SUV-Safety.html

UC Berkeley and U of Michigan Study says SUVs are less safe than other cars

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2007/04/iihs-and-nhtsa-agree-suvs-safer-than-cars/

Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) says SUV are safer than cars

[DainBramaged]

21. They sure carry a shitload more comfortably

logic still fails. I owned SUV's for years, don't own a gun....

[0rganism]

24. might be your logic that's failing here?

the OP isn't claiming that SUV owners are necessarily gun owners or vice-versa, but rather that similar motivations underlie the purchase of a large SUV and an AR-15 (specifically!) There are better cars for road safety, and there are generally better firearms for practical purposes such as hunting, target practice, or even self defense -- let alone the real possibility that people are likely safer without a gun at all.

I read the OP as saying that both the large SUV and the AR-15 are pareto-suboptimal, but processed through a pre-rational framework that doesn't take practicality or effectiveness into account.

Your denials do nothing, by themselves, to refute the OP. Perhaps they, too, stem from pre-rational attachments?

[DainBramaged]

63. Meh

fail

[baldguy]

180. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[DainBramaged]

193. Meh, another DU grammar smith

throw a "I don't give a shit" in with it.

[LanternWaste]

220. I too used to often dismiss others when they aptly illustrate me as an idiot.

I too used to often dismiss others when they aptly illustrated me as an idiot.

I got better the more I listened to others...

[DainBramaged]

222. You again miss the point

I just don't give a shit.I've spent my life listening to idiots who think they are better than me, now I just say


Meh


You insult yourself calling me an idiot.


Merry Christmas


Goodbye. Go bother someone else.

[KittyWampus]

57. I drove station wagons which hold a shitload VERY comfortably. Without endangering other drivers.

[DainBramaged]

65. How many station wagons are there now that don't cost a forutne you can afford?

zero

[nick of time]

68. Do they even make station wagons anymore?

[DainBramaged]

97. They ain't like what you think they are

little bitty wagons from 26-36K


You got people here throwing stones at SUV's and the best part, they ain't fucking changing America's driving habits from he DU





Fools


Keep crying oh whoa is America the SUV is ruining us.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[baldguy]

195. Auto makers stopped making station wagons in favor of SUVs

because the profit margin on SUVs is much larger, and because of industry-imposed regulatory oddities SUVs are classed as trucks rather than passenger vehicles they don't have to meet the same safety or mileage standards as normal cars. SUVs are an invention of the sales & marketing divisions of the auto makers. To pull it off they had to get rid of the station wagons and vans, and convince ordinary people to buy this new product that they've never seen or heard of instead. Their success is proof against anyone who believes advertising doesn't work.

[nick of time]

210. Thank you for the info. nt.

[JVS]

208. CAFE standards and the chicken tax discourage the production of large station wagons

The crux of the issue is Passenger Car vs. Light Truck (and from a regulatory perspective an SUV or a Minivan is a light truck).

Light trucks have less strict CAFE requirements. So if you're making a car to haul a family of 5 and their gear (traditionally the province of the large family sedan or wagon) you have the choice of making a big wagon which could bump your passenger car fleet above CAFE standards or an SUV or minivan which fits comfortably under the standards for light trucks.

The chicken tax also provides incentive because foreign competitors are taxed a 25% tariff in the light truck segment. So while choosing whether to make a wagon or SUV you can decide if you want to go toe to toe with the Japanese or benefit from the tariff.

This is why the only station wagons you tend to see anymore are usually foreign and usually small (big exceptions being some European wagons by luxury marques.)

[nick of time]

209. Thanks for the info. nt.

[KittyWampus]

226. Thanks so very much for this information. It explains so much.

[we can do it]

92. Wow, a 1 second google search finds quite a few. But don't let facts get in the way of your fail.

Car Rankings: Affordable Wagons

View the best wagons, covering station wagons and sports wagons generally priced below $30,000. Then compare wagon reviews, specs and features.

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/rankings/Affordable-Wagons/

[DainBramaged]

94. (sigh) $26,000 to $36 000, that's afforadable you bet

Fail this

[we can do it]

105. Compared to big SUVs? Yes, they are. Is your google broke? $28,995 - $116,925

http://www.cars.com/guides/suv/full-size/

you are a barrel of fun

[Worried senior]

59. We own an SUV too,

got it to pull our camper and when we need a bigger vehicle when we need something to carry larger items.

We also have a small car that is driven more often. My husband has 2 artificial hips and spinal stenosis, the SUV is much more comfortable for him than the small car is so there are times we chose to drive the suburban.

We don't have guns, have one old shotgun that belonged to my father, have no ammunition for it and it's hidden away.

The only thing that makes me feel guilty driving the SUV is the amt of gas it takes to fill it but for comfort it can't be beat.

[tabasco]

95. Ever heard of a trailer?

I pull one with a 4-banger. 1200-pound capacity.

Yeah, I know - that's not going to work when you need to haul a load of cut 24-inch oak logs, like you do all the time.

[DainBramaged]

98. You folks ain't changing America's driving or buying habits for the next 50 years

We get the last laugh.


Have a nice evening.


Have fun with your logs

[muriel_volestrangler]

200. Spoken like someone with their head truly in the sand about climate change

And you've just proved the OP's point. What you're saying is just like a gun enthusiast saying:

"You folks ain't changing America's shooting or hunting habits for the next 50 years

We get the last laugh.


Have a nice evening.


Have fun with your burglars"

[muriel_volestrangler]

216. If you don't think DU makes a difference, and think we shouldn't live other people's lives

then you should stop posting in other people's threads with "fail". You are interfering in other people's conversations and lives. You are disruptive.

[DainBramaged]

218. Go bother someone else

Fuck it


I don't answer to you. Put me on ignore, I just did to you. Don't answer my PM you aren't worth the effort.


Have a nice life

[we can do it]

126. Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) says cars are safer (2013)

The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) is awarding its new Top Safety Pick+ accolade to 13 cars. All earned good or acceptable ratings in the new IIHS small overlap test as well as top marks in other IIHS evaluations.

Winners include the Acura TL; Dodge Avenger and its twin, the Chrysler 200 4-door; Ford Fusion; Honda Accord 2-door; Honda Accord 4-door; Kia Optima; Nissan Altima 4-door; Subaru Legacy and its twin, the Subaru Outback; Suzuki Kizashi; Volkswagen Passat and Volvo S60. The Acura TL and Volvo S60 are midsize luxury cars. The other models are midsize, moderately priced cars.

http://www.bodyshopbusiness.com/issue/article.aspx?contentid=108505&categoryId=2440

http://www.iihs.org/ratings/tsp_current.aspx

[Taverner]

157. Thanks!

Missed that one on my search

So we have an answer!

[we can do it]

158. No problem, glad to help! I'm big on safety myself.

[KittyWampus]

50. Her FACTS are exactly correct. SUV's were intentionally marketed this way. INTENTIONALLY. I've poste

I've posted the info on this numerous times.

[DainBramaged]

70. Links please

They weren't marketed like trucks, they were marketed as vehicles to give the family more personal freedom, but NO ONE went off roading or camping, but America LOVES THEM, especially HERE IN THE NORTHEAST and other snow climates where they provide SAFETY because of 4 wheel drive.



Be well

[guardian]

82. Generalize much?

"but NO ONE went off roading or camping"

Not true. I have the scratches and dents on my SUV to prove you wrong. I also have the interior rash from hauling stoves, lumber, bricks and other large or heavy items that would not fit in your Prius.

[we can do it]

69. Husbands buy big SUVs because of their small penises. Not because they are safe.

[DainBramaged]

71. And people make comments like that who have small brains

Merry Christmas

[we can do it]

72. Oh now I'm going to have to call the waaaambulance. It's big I'll be safe.

[nick of time]

73. +1000. nt.

[zappaman]

172. Fail.

[we can do it]

87. The desire of the SUV driver is to be big and strong - and intimidating.

The desire of the SUV driver is to be big and strong - and intimidating. SUV drivers want to sit up high and literally "look down" on other drivers. And they want to drive as recklessly as the drivers in the off-road ads. Most are adult males - who insist on continuing to be teenage boys.

The SUV simply does not fulfill a valid need for the overwhelming majority of us. Consider, for example, the Hummer. Does anyone actually have a valid NEED that is fulfilled by the Hummer?

Do the auto companies know that the SUV is a stupid, gas-guzzling irresponsible vehicle? Of course they do; and they love it. The SUV provides the largest profit of any vehicle sold by auto companies. .................






not my words........from car talk "click and clack" Tom Magliozzi
http://www.cartalk.com/content/rant-and-rave-163

[baldguy]

111. Did you even bother to read what you've posted?

The woman you saw "could barely see over the sterring wheel", and was being distracted by kids & a dog. And this driver is more "protected" than others? Sounds more like an accident waiting to happen.

Much like people who seek to own high-powered assault weapons. The desire to own one is prima facie evidence that such a person should not have one.

[we can do it]

120. These are exactly the kind of people who need their "toys" taken away.

[DainBramaged]

148. Another Union basher....

you didn't even conprehend what I wrote.

[we can do it]

152. How is any of this even remotely union bashing?

[baldguy]

173. Non sequiturs all around.

RWrs seem to sprout them like acne on high school freshmen.

[laundry_queen]

187. I know

I have no idea how that poster got from point A 'SUVs are less safe but because of marketing people think they are MORE safe so they buy them' to 'we want non-union vehicles and we want to destroy the American auto industry!!!'

It's quite the leap, to say the least. Some of the biggest SUVs in my town with tiny blonde women in them are Toyota and Nissan.

[we can do it]

196. Same here, but pretty equal between sexes, they are rarely dirty, let alone muddy.

One person plodding along 8-10 mpg, who takes 5 minutes to maneuver into a parking space at olive garden.

[muriel_volestrangler]

201. accusations of union bashing are the last refuge of the left wing scoundrel

While a right winger who's been beaten in argument will whine "why do you hate your country?", no matter how irrelevant it is, a left winger will say "why do you hate unions?".

[PasadenaTrudy]

5. A friend

of mine bought a big ol' Land Rover Discovery because he's short ( 5'5&quot and he says he can see better

[srican69]

7. I think you friend cculd be compensating too ..

must be tired of people looking down on him ..and he gets his revenge behind the wheels of an SUV ...


remember you have to discount whatever they say ....

[PasadenaTrudy]

11. Possibly..

Doesn't fit with his personality though...I think he's a bit paranoid too. Feels more in control sitting higher up. I like being down low so I can maneuver about easier and quicker.

[nick of time]

13. And there it is,

the compensating snide.

[Eleanors38]

36. First SUVs, then AR-15s (something "peer-reviewed?"), then [bada-BOOM] com-pen-sa-ting! nt

[nick of time]

37. It was so predictable. nt,

[Eleanors38]

42. When controllers speak of "predictability," that means they are about to relieve their load. nt

[Zoeisright]

188. Hit a nerve, huh?

[nick of time]

206. Nope, not at all.

I just get tired of the insults on both sides of the issue. Insults don't contribute in any way towards working out a solution to a problem, any problem.

[dipsydoodle]

14. I'm not that short

but that's part of the reason I've got my Wrangler Unlimited. That and if I see anyone using a mobile phone in their hand I put the fear of God up them as I steer in their direction - my tyres are just under the height of a wing on a normal car.

[we can do it]

117. That pretty much makes the OP's point

[we can do it]

175. We'd all be able to see better if their over-sized asses would get out of the way.

[Union Scribe]

8. Kind of a strange disconnect in your OP

On the one hand you were suggesting we understand their psychology, presumably to get better results from dealing with them. Then you ended with a total rejection of that understanding with "those gun totting (sic) reptiles." I just found that funny.

[The2ndWheel]

15. Subconscious emotion is a powerful thing

[Eleanors38]

38. Given the compensating, reptilian peer-reviews, psychology should meld with shamanism. nt

[lumberjack_jeff]

74. We need to understand them only for the purpose of devising more personal insults. n/t

[nick of time]

9. I have an SUV because it's perfectly suited for farm work

and I do like to go 4 wheeling, I also bought an AR-15 from a friend of mine for $300.00 because it's perfectly suited for shooting the coyotes that go after my chickens and ducks, not because of some reptillian primal instinct.
And your little insult of gun totting reptiles, no wonder we have such a divide in this country, and I mean both sides of the extreme.

[Taverner]

16. I thought pickup trucks were perfectly suited for farm work?

[nick of time]

18. The pick ups are for the my 3 employees.

I use a Ford Expidition for use around my farm.

[Taverner]

19. Ahhh gotchya

[Mosby]

44. The Expedition has maybe 8 inches of ground clearance

Like most full size SUVs, they are definitely not designed for off-road.

A real off-road vehicle like the Toyota Tacoma has 12" of ground clearance.

[kwassa]

49. The clearance on most SUVs is a myth ...

the bumpers may be three feet off the ground, but the bottom of the differential housing is only eight inches off the ground, and that is what is going to hit first.

[we can do it]

124. Nothin' says I'm the boss like leather seats and 10 mpg and seating for 12

screw the planet

[darkangel218]

130. What about a family of 12? What are they supposed to do, walk?

[we can do it]

135. Uphill both ways in a blizzard with their AR197.6s or what evers?

[darkangel218]

138. Bye bye. nt

[JVS]

212. Does anyone know what the Duggarmobile looks like?

[nick of time]

144. That's right.

BTW, my Expedition gets about 17-20 mpg, your thinking about the Excursion.

[we can do it]

145. HA!

[nadinbrzezinski]

91. They are, but the small ones were replaced by SUV which are a heck

Of a compromise.

[Taverner]

109. Yeah - Chevy Luvs weren't that stable...

[srican69]

25. you may have a perfectly valid reason to buy an SUV and an AR-15 sir ..

I am talking about the average guy living in the city or suburban are who will NEVER EVER go off roading to justify having a SUV ..( and gives feeling safe in one as the reason)

read the research on SUVs and the Reptilian brain by Clotaire Rapaille..

[nick of time]

27. That's fair enough.

Last edited Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:14 PM - Edit history (1)

However calling people gun toting reptiles is OTT in my humble opinion.

[nick of time]

146. Fixed it.

Thanks.

[we can do it]

147. no problem I will delete the other one

[Sekhmets Daughter]

55. True...we have to drown out the voices of the extremes from both sides...n/t

[KittyWampus]

58. We use a pick up for farm work. How does shoveling manure into your SUV work?

[nick of time]

61. I also have 2 pick ups that my employees use for that kind of hauling.

I also have 1 pick up that's licensed and use that to haul supplies. My SUV is used for getting around my farm and going to town.
Shoveling manure into a Ford Expedition isn't very practical now, is it?

[Lesmoderesstupides]

17. I have an SUV cuz it is hard to get through 6+" of snow in the mountains in a car

When they make a car that can do what my SUV does I will glady buy it.

Now I also own guns but I don't need an AR, no one does IMHO, plenty of other guns are available that will do the job.

[GoneOffShore]

83. The Scandanavian's seem to do alright with Volvo's and Saab's

But they're socialists.

[we can do it]

90. You are making WAY too much sense for this conversation.

[RKP5637]

112. This thread is reading more like a SNL skit!!! All we need now are the visuals!!! LOL

[we can do it]

119. And a song........

[NutmegYankee]

127. Socialists who pay to plow the roads.

Unlike some of the Randian "you're on your own" counties in the USA.

[Lesmoderesstupides]

194. My SUV gets better mileage than an XC90 so you want me to get a vehicle that uses more gas?

Last edited Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:36 AM - Edit history (2)

Also is not American Union built.

Why would I want to waste gas and not support American Union workers I am not a Republican.

[GoneOffShore]

202. My 2000 Saab 9-3 gets 22 in town 35 highway.

And goes through snow drifts.

I bought it new 13 years ago after looking at "American" built cars. Unfortunately they were pretty much crap then.

[Lesmoderesstupides]

203. So you stab your working brothers and sisters in the back, and buy a non US union made car

good job.

Thanks for supporting American Workers and Jobs!

[GoneOffShore]

214. Saab was owned by GM at the time.

I owned GM stock.


Have fun storming the castle.

Or do the other thing and enjoy your stay.

[Lesmoderesstupides]

215. I know me first, I got it the first time

[GoneOffShore]

223. Are you always this charming?

Or did you just pick it up recently?

But your name certainly suits you.

Is it self descriptive? Or are you trying to be clever?

Enjoy your stay or is it your return?

[Lesmoderesstupides]

224. Just very direct, sorry if you don't approve

[GoneOffShore]

225. I'm sure you are.

Enjoy your stay.

[Ernesto]

22.

[Ernesto]

26. here ya go!

http://www.4wd4all.com/forums/showthread.php?265-Funny-Hummer-Cartoon

[patrice]

31. He, he..., but don't forget that in places like cupcake land that's bragging rights for women too.

[One_Life_To_Give]

29. Or it's what they learned on

Alternatively it's what they learned in basic training to use and maintain.

[lynne]

32. Don't have a SUV, but have an extended cab pickup -

- that takes almost a stepladder to get into. I like it because I can see much better than in our automobile. I can see more of the road and further down the road. Am also able to see around shrubs, signs, etc. that block my vision when in the other car. Plus I can haul firewood, take our trash to the dump, take metal to the recycle place, pick up lumber and building supplies.

I think that psychologist needs to get out of the office and interact with the public every so often.

[srican69]

33. fortune 500 companies flock to him to pay millions of dollars .. you still think he needs to get out

[lynne]

35. You equate money to common sense?

How very last century.

[Eleanors38]

40. I think they called it The Hidden Persuaders back in da 50s.

[Ernesto]

45. My 2WD Ford F250 extendo cab diesel gets 30 MPG on the highway.

IF I keep my foot out of the turbocharger and use the cruise control........

[Locrian]

41. not just AR15

Or SUVs, or cars, or guns, or....

We're ALL manipulated by marketing. The gun manufactures / industry's "products" are "advertised" 24/7/365 in just about every TV/Movie/Game etc. They are shown as tools of the hero, as ways to solve problems, as ways to 'save the day' etc.

Then there's the "zombie apocalypse", TV "shooter" reality shows, etc, etc, etc.

We need to start looking at some of this as a marketing issue - that's what's driving a lot of these 'new' bubble and fear/fantasy buyers..

Look at the crazy sales of the iPhone FFS. Similar marketing phenomenon/craze, except you can't shoot 20 people with an iPhone.

[laundry_queen]

189. That is the truth

and for those poking fun at the 'marketing psychologist dude' some of those guys are the shrewest, smartest psychologists out there - they make people think they NEED shit they don't really need - on a regular basis. They get kids drooling over McDonalds, make women run out for plastic surgery, cause panics on sale days and basically manipulate all of society. They study your wants, your needs, your weaknesses, your habits, your values, your income, your families and they know what buttons to push. They make you BELIEVE what you want to believe about their product. Hell, there are examples of it in this thread! LOL. Underestimate these vampires at your own risk but don't discount their knowledge. They know you better than you do.

[flamingdem]

43. SUVs mean that you'll survive a crash with a smaller vehicle, it's a kind of bullying

in that sense. Though I don't think most people buying them realize this. Those that drive small sedans and are harrassed by reckless SUVs do see it this way.

On this topic an elderly man was killed last weekend in San Diego by a Land Rover SUV. They were not cited because supposedly there was not enough time to stop and he wandered into the road. However, if it had been a lighter sedan he might not have died and the person might have had better control to swerve.

[NutmegYankee]

46. Trucks are useful.

I prefer a 4x4 with the smallest engine and a manual transmission. Right now that is the Toyota Tacoma since Ford killed the Ranger (moronic act). It's annoying that the compact truck market has been gutted. Trucks are very useful to haul goods and 4wheel drive is a necessity in the north.

It has nothing to do with superiority complexes - 8 foot long lumber just doesn't fit in my compact car.

[REP]

47. Guess you didn't hear: SUV drivers are less likely to die in a crash.

http://www.iihs.org/externaldata/srdata/docs/sr4605.pdf

My car is one of the more likely to not do so well ... mostly because it is small.

[we can do it]

75. No they are not

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/04/the-most-dangerous-cars-i_n_1568029.html#slide=more230404
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/17/business/safety-gap-grows-wider-between-suv-s-and-cars.html
http://automotive.lilithezine.com/SUVs-Are-Dangerous.html


Myth: SUVs are safer than cars.

Reality: SUVs are no safer than cars for their occupants, and pose much greater dangers for other road users. SUV occupants die slightly more often than car occupants in crashes. The occupant death rate in crashes per million SUVs on the road is 6 percent higher than the death rate per million cars. The occupant death rate for the largest SUVs, which tend to be driven by middle-aged families, is 8 percent higher than the occupant death rate for minivans and upper-midsize cars like the Ford Taurus and Toyota Camry, which are typically driven by similar families. SUV occupants are much more likely than car occupants to die in a rollover, which accounts for about 1,000 more deaths a year than if the same people had been in cars. In collisions with other vehicles, however, SUVs are nearly three times as likely as cars to kill other drivers, inflicting another 1,000 unnecessary deaths a year among motorists who would have survived if hit instead by cars of the same weight. SUVs also contribute much more than cars to air pollution, causing up to 1,000 extra deaths a year among people with respiratory ailments.http://thedetroitproject.com/readmore/myths.htm

[DainBramaged]

101. Go play with your itty bitty imporred car

We at the UAW thank you for your support

Goodbye

[we can do it]

132. What is imporred?

[Major Nikon]

182. Like the article says, Electronic Stability Control

The reason top heavy vehicles roll over is because of less lateral stability. If you prevent them from going sideways, they don't roll over, or at least it's a lot harder to get them to roll over in the longitudinal direction.

What they do is make the roads less safe for passenger vehicles because their bumpers tend to be higher.

[michigandem58]

48. Pit bull owners as well

Same mentality. Think they are safer, accidents won't happen to them.

[NV Whino]

51. Itty bitty dicks?

[NutmegYankee]

60. I guess that could be since I mostly see women driving SUVs...

Most guys I see drive cars or trucks.

[NV Whino]

78. Yeah, but do they have big guns in the rear window?

[NutmegYankee]

79. I can't tell.

The "baby on board" and "stick figure family" stickers block the view.

[NV Whino]

134. !

[raidert05]

162. touche

[we can do it]

159. Ever drive by a fast food joint? The drive thru's full of dudes in SUVs most of the time.

[NutmegYankee]

160. No. I don't drive by them much

I tend to get sucked into their parking lot like a comet in orbit and have to buy a burger to reach escape velocity.

[we can do it]

161. Funny, they have the opposite effect on me, I am flung out of orbit unless sucked into a milkshake..

[DainBramaged]

67. It NEVER fails, people have a personal bone to pick with SUV's so DU is the bashing grounds

bullshit


Fail

the DU purity squad strikes again.

PS


The Japanese make MORE and just as DIRTY GAS GUZZLING SUv's as the Big three, so fail times three.

Meh


time for another ignore list special

[Kip Humphrey]

76. small penises.

[slackmaster]

84. Thoughtless, shallow pseudo mass mind-reading post is thoughtless and shallow

I drive an SUV because my activities often involve driving in areas where 4-wheel drive is necessary.

A psychologist ( I forget his name) did a study ( that included the subjects being interviewed in partial state of sleep) and came to the conclusion that the reason people bought the vehicles was that the increased ground clearance gave them a feeling of superiority on the roads ..

That reminds me of the story about the famous mathematician who was stricken for several days with a terrible case of constipation.

He worked it out with a pencil.

I have a degree in psychology and I have no idea where your apocryphal story came from. I am also not aware of any research showing validity for interviews conducted in anything other than a fully conscious state.

My guess is that...

Yes, it's just that. A guess. Real life motivations of members of a large and diverse group of people can rarely be summarized in a few sentences that were concocted without doing any actual research.

Have you asked even ONE person who owns a firearm (or an SUV) why he or she made the decision to acquire it?

[guardian]

86. Good points. Rock on. n/t

[whistler162]

125. Probably from the same place the pencil went!

[lastlib]

88. substitute for a penis?

[Union Scribe]

198. I think like a dozen people have beaten you to that canard.

Thanks for playing, I'm sure there are other threads requiring dick comments though.

[nadinbrzezinski]

89. Ok, explain those of us who need the ground clearance

And the 4x4 capability for well...work...

FYI I know the vehicle has a higher chance of a roll over, drive accordingly.

[DainBramaged]

93. You are talking to people who think they are smarter than the rest of us

and think by taking SUVs off the road they'll solve the world's petroleum problems.

If they had any common sense they'd see the radical change over the past decade in SUV/Crossover millage.


But they are just too ignorant to be bothered. They have their little soapbox here so they get up on it like chickens, cluck cluck, the farmer is bad cluck cluck.


Many many words to describe them and even though they use "little dicks" and get away with it. I can think of something smaller between their eyes.

[nadinbrzezinski]

107. Well, we bought a 2004 Jeep

1.- Could not afford new

2.- All the fancy electronics are not a good idea well...off road.

[quaker bill]

96. Not that many people buy them

but those who do, buy them often. I don't really think it is to make them feel "safer", because if you think it takes an AR-15, you will never truly feel safe. I fortunately cannot imagine living in the headspace where I would come to think owning an AR-15 is a necessity. You have to be expecting quite an attack to need that sort of equipment.

[Recursion]

116. They're popular because they're small, light, and low-powered

Sort of the opposite of the direction you're going.

[The Straight Story]

100. loose vaginas and small tits

Just trying to fit in with other posters here.

[DainBramaged]

102. Well said

[RKP5637]

113. LOL - add the pics!

[darkangel218]

118. ROFL!!

[we can do it]

141. You spelled it correctly, try again.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

106. His name is Dr. Clotaire Rapaille

A very strange, but spectacularly wealthy man.

[darkangel218]

110. So im a "gun totting reptile because i drive an SUV??

Wait!


Thanks for the laugh

[justanidea]

115. Wow, I learn something new on DU everyday.

Here I thought I bought my Jeep Wrangler because I loved driving with the top/doors off, enjoyed off-roading and wanted 4 wheel drive for the winter, and just loved the rugged simplicity of the truck.

Turns out I was actually only buying it to compensate for a small penis and to feel superior to others.

I guess I can add Jeep ownership in with gun ownership and fishing to the list of things DU has told me are socially unacceptable.

[we can do it]

165. The OP does say "Huge SUVs" - I don't think Wranglers are huge.

just sayin'

[darkangel218]

121. Is that you, mayor Bloomberg??

[we can do it]

129. It seems they both have the "I am more important than everyone else" attitude.

This does not apply to those who legitimately use guns or big trucks for work or necessity. NO, pushing others out of the way at the mall is not necessity.

Who cares if others are safe and the planet is able to support human life? Its all about me.

[DainBramaged]

131. And for those of you who equate small penises with driving SUV's

I've been "in" the auto industry since 1966. If you haven't figured out what the UAW icon means in my posts it stands for the United Auto Workers. I've never owned a Japanese or Korean vehicle and never will.


Those of you YOU attack the US auto industry are nothing more than Right wing enablers and you are attacking the many Unions involved in building cars for GM, Chrysler and Ford.

Shame on you and your imported crap

Have a nice life

[bluedigger]

137. To be fair, some of us just have no place to go.

[nick of time]

151. Awesome picture.

If you don't mind my asking, where is that?

[bluedigger]

153. In the mountains between Ouray and Telluride, Colorado.

I took a fortuitous wrong turn.

[nick of time]

154. Thanks.

It's beautiful in a desolate way.

[bluedigger]

155. Okay, one more.

Sometimes it depends which way you look.

[nick of time]

156. Whole different perspective.

Just gorgeous. Thanks.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

142. So, like SUVs, AR15s are LESS safe than other models, despite accounting for <3% of gun homicide? nt

[HipChick]

143. I have a huge SUV...no husband,kids or dogs..

Bite me..

[In_The_Wind]

205. I had a huge SUV . . . and a Golden Retriever, no kids, no husband.

[img][/img]


just sayin'

[dawg]

211. Chomp!

[DainBramaged]

149. So women driving SUv's are reptiles with itty bitty penises?

Mega fail.


This thread, as the Mythbusters would say, if busted, fucking busted.

[we can do it]

174. Wo men recepticles of tiny penises beware!!!1111!!! I;m series1

[krispos42]

150. People also bought them as an alternative to a minivan.

Compared to a typical minivan, an early-to-mid 90's SUV had slightly worse gas mileage, 4-wheel drive, superior towing ability, and plenty of room for kids and cargo.

Back when gas was $1.19 a gallon, people figured that paying a couple of hundred dollars a year extra was worth this hit for better mobility in the snow and the increased towing ability. A Ford Explorer would get maybe 16mpg, a minivan maybe 18. A large sedan would get maybe 20. And in the hilly, snowy parts of the country the 4wd helped quite a bit.


Of course, they looked cooler than a minivan, too, which certainly didn't hurt sales.



But the fact of people buying AR-15s is something a bit different. IF you've made the choice to own a gun to defend your home against an intruder(s), then picking the AR-15 or similar is a quite logical choice.

AR-15s and other rifles have superior power to handguns, and are easier to aim. Unlike shotguns, rifles intended for self-defense use offer more accuracy, much less recoil, and can hold more cartridges. And because they are semi-automatic, AR-15s and similar don't have any mechanical controls that require operation during a crisis situation.

AR-15s also have a boatload of accessories available from dozens of different makers.

People pick the AR-15 because it's a good choice. A name-brand AR-15 is a quality piece of machinery that does what it is intended to do quite well.

[Remmah2]

163. LOL

I drive to the range in my Toyota Corolla. The money I save on gas I spend on reloading components.

[crazyjoe]

164. So they don't get stuck in the snow?

[sylvi]

166. People who are obsessed with the correlation of penis size and personal possessions

have small penises.

[Major Nikon]

183. ...or small minds

[cherokeeprogressive]

185. I'm going to call it RODWIN'S LAW...

It states: "As an online discussion about cars, motorcycles, boats, or guns grows longer, the probability of a useless statement involving Penis Size approaches 1." In other words, Rodwin observed that, given enough time, in any online discussion involving cars, motorcycles, boats, or guns—regardless of topic or scope—someone inevitably makes a statement about Penis Size.

I usually see it when the person posting has no substantive argument and cannot in any way add to the discussion but feels compelled to chime in anyway.

[JVS]

213. "Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people."

said Elanor Roosevelt.

I suppose one could modify it to address those who talk about penises.

[tabasco]

168. Yeah, that's pretty obvious

"I'm a big manly man with my big gun and big loud truck and I must conform so my neighbors know that I'm a manly man just like them and just to make sure I wear a douchey beard just like Toby Keith!"

[Algebra Palin]

169. it isn't that deep for me.

i drive an SUV cos i like sitting high up.
i got an ak because it was pretty much a novelty (to me) at time.

[Adam-Bomb]

177. Oh, Man, you guys crack me up

I got a 95 GMC 4x4 Surburban because the 3/4 ton truck I wanted was already sold.

The "Lead Sled" had the towing package I DID want, and I let my wife talk
me into it.....I'm glad she did.

Besides the towing package, it's great on trips, I can fold or take out the rear
seats and haul almost anything, and it has been extremely reliable.....almost
200,000 miles on it, now.

It's also VERY comfortable.

Now, it does spend a lot of time holding down my driveway, but we didn't get
it for a daily driver. It's paid for, and insurance is like $110.00 every six months.

I go to the range in the Chrysler minivan

[VOX]

184. Welcome to DU. Hope you've got more going than gats 'n guzzlers...

You know, sum of them-there l'ib'rul idees 'n such.

[Xipe Totec]

178. Your message is lost in the weeds

You'll be nitpicked to death.

Personally, I drive a Juke; a car which, though very compact, has a high ground clearance, compensated with independent 4-wheel steering for control. My wife was in a crash a few weeks ago. Although the car that rear-ended her left his license plate number stamped on the muffler and that car, a Nissan Acura, had to be towed from the scene, airbag deployed, my wife was able to drive the car from the scene after being crunched between the Acura and a Grand Marquis in front. Total damage to our vehicle, $9,000.00 Total damage to wife and son, $0.00. A car that can drive away with that much damage is a good car.

I understand your point about guns, and I agree with it.

But you steered and crashed into a whole different subject...

[freshwest]

186. Status symbol. Shows their income level.

[fujiyama]

190. These comparisons work to a very limited extent

Yes, there is a psychological factor of your safety being reinforced by owning the bigger gun or driving the bigger vehicle. We live in a very paranoid and distrustful society and it seems to have got worse over the years. Skepticism has given way to wholesale paranoia and fear.

The reality is that for some, SUVs serve a purpose (especially small and mid-range). But even a Ford Excursion or Expedition or a Chevy Suburban serves some utilitarian purpose - of fitting more people, hauling more stuff, or towing more weight.

Semi-Automatic guns and Assault weapons are exactly that. They're weapons. Guns are meant to kill, hurt, or destroy - whether it's for warfare, hunting, or sports - it's meant to send a projectile at a target. They're inherently and intrinsically destructive tools. That's what they're made to do. They're made with that particular purpose.

No civilian really needs an AR-15 and very few need a Ford Excursion, but the former has no real practical value for hunting or home defense. The latter is a monstrosity but can be used in public in a safe manner. Yes, an AR-15 can also be used safely (at say, a firing range or in a remote area), but ultimately they are either weapons of warfare or close enough to it. The real question is whether we as a society should behave as if individuals are always on a war-footing. It strikes me as an odd way for a society to function.

[farminator3000]

207. the reason is.....GROUPTHINK!!! yay narrow-minded insulting fools who can't read!

What is Groupthink?



Groupthink, a term coined by social psychologist Irving Janis (1972), occurs when a group makes faulty decisions because group pressures lead to a deterioration of “mental efficiency, reality testing, and moral judgment” (p. 9). Groups affected by groupthink ignore alternatives and tend to take irrational actions that dehumanize other groups. A group is especially vulnerable to groupthink when its members are similar in background, when the group is insulated from outside opinions, and when there are no clear rules for decision making.
http://www.psysr.org/about/pubs_resources/groupthink%20overview.htm

[LanternWaste]

219. My guess is that like other commodities, Madison Avenue has done a bang-up job

My guess is that like other commodities, Madison Avenue has done a bang-up job branding their products to a base-line demographic, and then laying out an appeal for that demographic to trumpet.

And like other commodities, we will aggressively protest all criticisms to the contrary with a righteous might and a smörgåsbord of rationalizations and justifications, from simple appeal and desire to the vague and a diaphanous "it's the one that's right for me".

Madison Avenue has sold all of us a bill of goods, and we all willingly purchased it in many varied forms, from computers operating systems to vehicles to rootin'-tootin' weapons. In our opportunistic culture, the "we" is more often than not, merely lip service. The "me" is our priority, and we will defend our personal desires above the collective good of humanity.

The Enlightenment was a very cool experiment, but it really didn't work as well as was first thought.