I just can NOT figure this out...

[Archae]

This guy who was a LAPD officer, he's being lauded, even fucking CELEBRATED on Facebook.

Whatever his gripes, whatever his complaints, since he shot and killed two innocent people and likely will kill more before he's finally killed, (or captured,) he is a thug, nothing more, nothing less.

[TheCowsCameHome]

1. Extra butter, hold the salt.

[Electric Monk]

2. If you want to actually know what his gripes and complaints are, I suggest you read his manifesto

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101655176

[Archae]

4. His "Manifesto" be damned.

When he decided to start murdering innocents he lost all claims.

[kestrel91316]

12. I've read a good bit of his complaint against LAPD - lack of ethics, abundance of racism,

ganglike behavior - he has some valid points.

That said, he lost any moral high ground he might have had when he started killing innocent people. The shame of this is that now any VALID complaints he had will be completely dismissed.

LAPD has extremely unclean hands, and has had for decades. Just look at how they almost killed those two women merely because they were driving a pickup truck. They routinely appoint themselves judge, jury, and executioner. Due process never even enters their minds.

[Zax2me]

28. lack of ethics, racism... I noticed murder wasn't in his 'manifesto'

Guess he decided to one-up them.

[freshwest]

34. I agree with you, if he did, some say he didn't. That's shocking if true.

If he didn't, who did this and why?

I don't claim to know anything really, all I know if what is on DU. Don't even watch teevee or listen to the radio. You guys and the links you post are all I got.

[Honeycombe8]

9. That's better left to psychiatrists, after he's in prison or killed. Like the Unibomber's manifesto.

The writings of sickos trying to justify killing people is something for the experts to analyze.

He's clearly got psych issues and has had for some time. That's probably why the LAPD was getting rid of him. He was unbalanced.

[JaneyVee]

3. Exactly. He could have done far more damage to the LAPD without violence.

[JustAnotherGen]

5. I read his manifesto

So something is still really broken in LAPD.

I would like to see if it all happened - starting with him reporting that the female officer kicked a mentally ill homeless man and he caught shit for reporting it. If a solid investigative journalist can get their hooks onto it - I'd be interested in knowing the full extent of the racism, bigotry, shake downs and scams going down.

Never is violence the answer. Never. And now innocent people are being hurt by officers shooting at cars that look like his?

Something is rotten in the state of California. And I want to know what that smell is coming from.

Anyone know if the FBI has just flat out taken over on this?

[tama]

11. "Never is violence the answer. Never."

There was a book publishing event about RW extremism in a library, with 100 people attending. Three nazis armed with knives and bags of empty bottles to disrupt the event and hurt the people inside. There were some DIY punks guarding the door, and yes, they used violence to stop the nazis entering, so the event continued.

Guess did anyone inside condemn the use of violence by the DIY punks who protected them? Nope.

If you were being beaten and raped by nazis, cops or by whoever, and DIY punks came by and offered to help by using violence to stop the violence against you, would you tell them "No. Never is violence the answer. Never."?

It's all situation dependent and categorical moral statements are stupid.

[JustAnotherGen]

21. No that's not a stupid statement

I made. And it's not a categorical moral statement either.

I said the same thing about George Zimmerman. When he murdered a 17 year old black boy that he stalked and intimidated in cold blood.

Zimmerman - All I understand is that he is no different than Bull Connor, the LAPD, and the New Orleans police.

This man - in reading his manifesto . . . He's touching a nerve.

I've been a bit more quiet at DU lately. I seriously don't know why we have gun discussions without discussing their use by black men, against black men. But now something has happened - a black man who bears an eerie resemblance to my brother, shares the upbringing (black in a white town/school), college educated, full service in the military and a former police officer - former because he is a whistle blower - he's not the "typical black man with a gun".

Can you hear us now America?

Those Facebook pages supporting him? Seeing some of the names of these FB pages? Wake the fuck up America. And he and I agree on one thing (amongst others) - the treatment even here at DU of a black President and first lady. Just because we have them - doesn't mean America's face is clean. This is an absolutely hateful place for black Americans . . . And one of us - just like us - who had an inside track in what is known by my generation (I'm 40 - think Rodney King, OJ Simpson) as one of the most racist organizations in America (LAPD) blew the whistle and lost his job for being honorable.

Has he killed people with a gun? Yep? Is it not the answer? Yep. But you know what my cousins police file says when he was murdered by a gun in 1991? I know because I dated an ADA that got hold of it for me about 8 years ago . . . It reads NHI. A U of R senior, Officer in his Frat, youth leader in his church on his way to AU Law was pegged as NHI.


Look it up. It's what they wrote 22 years ago and what they are probably writing in LA now . . . Everytime a black person was killed.

This man is a very angry college educated formerly upstanding black citizen and many points in his manifesto? Come to my house for Sunday dinner this week. My husband will be the only non black American there. It's filled with things we whisper because when we say it loud they call us thugs and welfare queens so there is no recourse. Just whispering.

This guy picked up a gun. Who else is going to now?

[tama]

22. I'm not picking up a gun

But I don't say "violence is never answer" when violent fascist thugs are beaten by DIY antifascists acting in self-defense. I don't say "violence is never answer" when Syrian soldiers are ordered to shoot peaceful demonstrators, those who refuse to shoot civilians are shoot by their officers, and seeing all that decide that armed resistance against the government is is justified, leave the army and start fighting against government.

I don't live in America. But what I see in DU and elsewhere is that many while liberals turn their head in shame and do nothing when racist drug war cops take another brown skinned member of community to prison. And then another and then another. Sometimes poor communities suffering most from racist police and drug war fight back, demonstrate, burn some police cars etc. Those stories are hardly mentioned on DU.

Obama? The "Constitutional Scholar" takes a dump on Magna Charta, declares himself a king with god given "national security" NDAA and kill lists, sends Homeland, FBI and Dem mayors and their robocops against peacefully gathering and demonstrating Occupy movement.

I don't live in America. It's a powder keg. I can't tell any American to pick up a gun or not to. I agree with those that still think that civil disobedience stays best strategy, and I pity those liberals who get more angry from broken bank window or burned police car than from systemic violence against fellow human beings and can't make distinction between material damage and human damage when condemning "violence".

What I can say is: stop killing and hurting other peoples. None of you is more important than a four year old Pakistani girl killed by drone. Not Obama, not a WS bankster, not anybody. None of you is less important. If you can't take down your military empire without civil war, remembering what war is really like, then you cant. I wish you can, but don't know.

[grahamhgreen]

6. Once you damage peoples souls by sending them to pointless wars, we all become responsible.

Here's the rational I heard from a Vietnam vet: "I killed people in Vietnam for nothing, why wouldn't I kill for something I believe in?" (or something like that.)

There is a bigger discussion here: and it includes things like whistleblowers going to jail, while torturers go free, and the like.

We all know it's wrong to kill innocents, but let's have the other discussion, as well.

[Honeycombe8]

8. So we can expect to see a post like this about the guy who killed Trayvon Martin? nt

[grahamhgreen]

10. Was he a combat vet as well?

[Honeycombe8]

7. I was hoping that thread had been deleted, and the poster banned, by now. The guy is a murderer.

He's a cold killer and a cowardly one at that, ambushing female relatives and killing them.

Where are all the gun control advocates railing against this guy who is out there killing people with assault weapons?

The reason he snapped is one issue. Being a cold killer is a different issue.

[RandiFan1290]

13. huh?

What thread?

[Honeycombe8]

14. Look at the threads supporting the killer....posting links to his manifesto...

how aggrieved and justified teh guy is...etc.

[RandiFan1290]

15. I haven't seen that

Got any links?

[Honeycombe8]

16. No...they're there. That's what the OP was talking about. And other posts saying "sorry but I can't

`support him..." all that is in reaction to posts that started yesterday supporting him.

Go to the GD page and scan down. You'll see them. I just saw one posting a link to his manifesto, explaining why it's important to understand right now why the guy is upset, and that we should read the manifesto. Seriously. Like reading the Unibomber's manifesto would shed any justification light on why he was murdering people. There is no justification for murder under these circumstances.

[RandiFan1290]

17. "I was hoping that thread had been deleted, and the poster banned, by now"

No link to this thread that should be deleted and the poster banned?

[Luminous Animal]

24. I've asked for links, too but nobody, NOBODY SEEMS TO BE ABLE TO PROVDE THEM.

The accusation that some DUers support this guy seems to be a fantasy because those who make this accusation refuse to provide a link.

And,merely linking to the manifesto does not equal support.

[tama]

25. Of course we should read manifestos

All of them, Unabomber manifesto, ex-LAPD vigilante manifesto, Obama NDAA and kill list manifesto. And by reading and comparing we see that Obama kill list manifesto is not different from the other two, no more justified.

And reading all of them and getting informed, we don't have to agree with any of them.

[NightWatcher]

18. he's a killer YES, but how do they know he killed Quan and her fiance?

I'm not defending the guy but I cant find how they know he killed them. Did they release forensics on the weapon used? Are there witnesses?

I'm trying to find the proof that he did this. I know that in his manifesto he said he'd go after family members of his targets, and the timing looks like it was him, but I didnt know if there was anything else.

This is definitely a weird story and I hope it's resolved soon with no more death, not even Dorner

[RandiFan1290]

19. Uh oh! Better be careful what you say!

All of DU is getting painted as supporting this guy now!! Wonder how that happens??

[cherokeeprogressive]

27. He posts his manifesto promising to kill the family members of his targets...

and days later the daughter of the retired Police Officer who unsuccessfully defended him against the department is killed along with her fiancé.

Pure coincidence, yeah.

Did you think OJ was innocent as well? After all, didn't LAPD frame him?

[NightWatcher]

31. Nope, just curious if there was more evidence

I just started following this case late last night. Thanks for the smarmy sarcasm tho.

[Zax2me]

29. Boy, if I'm ever up on a serious charge I hope you are on the jury!

If I'm guilty all I need is one person like you to set me free - to do it again!

[NightWatcher]

30. And the State puts its evidence in court

And if burden of proof is met, we say "guilty" and watch them haul you away.
We don't try defendants in the court of public opinion. If you were charged with a crime, you'd appreciate the due process.

[baldguy]

20. People celebrate Randy Weaver & David Koresh, too.

Even here on DU, with impunity.

[Luminous Animal]

23. How may people are celebrating him? 1000? 2000? 3000? C'mon give me a number.

[abelenkpe]

26. Did he admit to killing people?

So far I've read he is accused of killing people.

[Kalidurga]

32. I am not sure that celebrated is the right word...

I have seen some statements that have given me pause. But, they are mostly ones that seem empathetic. I don't think it's wrong to have empathy. In fact it might take someone with empathy to understand and find this guy. But, I would be wary of crossing the line between understanding and celebrating as you say.

[flamingdem]

33. That's sickening, the dead should be honored and this man seen as mentally ill

He's not a hero in any way