Apple boycott brews over worker abuses

[Omaha Steve]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/gadgets/news/article.cfm?c_id=238&objectid=10782044

Apple, the computer giant whose sleek products have become a mainstay of modern life, is dealing with a public relations disaster and the threat of calls for a boycott of iPhones and iPads.

The company's image was tarnished after the New York Times detailed allegations of terrible working conditions in some of the factories of its network of Chinese suppliers. Now the word "boycott" has started to appear in media coverage of its activities.

"Should consumers boycott Apple?" asked a column in the Los Angeles Times last week as it recounted details of the PR fallout.

The influential Daily Beast and Newsweek technology writer Dan Lyons wrote a scathing piece.

FULL story at link.

[joshcryer]

1. Good. Apple is the most profitable company that can effect change.

Last edited Sun Jan 29, 2012, 10:50 PM - Edit history (1)

Once Apple reforms its suppliers then we'll go after Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, etc.

[OhioChick]

3. You're absolutely right n/t

[HuckleB]

6. Really?

We shouldn't go after the whole lot of them?

Is that too painful to do?

[joshcryer]

9. Apple's our best shot.

Go after some no name motherboard manufacturer if you want, it's obviously working in this case, and we'll get the reforms necessary to effect those no name motherboard manufactures.

FYI if anything is painful for me it would be buying an $800 gadget made by slave labor for under $200.

[HuckleB]

10. So it's just Apple and "no name motherboard manufacturer's" who are doing this?

Really?

[joshcryer]

12. I didn't say that.

[HuckleB]

14. Well, then what are you saying?

Your post seems to indicate that you think there are no other big name manufacturers that should be brought to reckoning.

[joshcryer]

16. No, my post indicates that Apple is the biggest.

It does not indicate in any way whatsoever that there are no other big name manufacturers.

I was contrasting between no name and Apple to show that some people, who do buy no name, are getting no name stuff through a supply chain that Apple is responsible for. If Apple fixes the supply chain, then those no names get a cleaner and less exploitive supply chain.

[HuckleB]

18. Hogwash.

You mentioned Apple and compared the options to "no name" motherboard companies. Apple is not the only company responsible for any supply chain. Not by a long shot.

Try again.

[joshcryer]

20. I never said or implied "only." I said largest.

Read the articles by Apple, defending the supply chain, defending the "skilled labor" of 14 year olds.

They're the ones making that argument why they can't build the iPhone here, not me.

Now, if it's all true, that they are intertwined in the supply chain at such a level as to require hundreds of thousands of employees for their products...

...don't you think going after them is going to have a bigger impact than any other company that has fewer employees?

Really, it was merely for contrast.

[HuckleB]

25. You still haven't proven that Apple is the "largest."

The rest of your post is just trying to escape from mistakes you made.

Own up to them. That's the right thing to do.

[joshcryer]

30. You are correct, I have clearly failed here. I mean that they are most profitable.

[Romulox]

53. Check cnbc.com or yahoo finance. This is not a winning point for you.

[Old and In the Way]

31. Foxconn does product assembly work for just about every major OEM

Last edited Sun Jan 29, 2012, 11:44 PM - Edit history (1)

From Wikipedia-

Acer Inc. (Taiwan) [27]
Amazon.com (United States)[28]
Apple Inc. (United States)[29]
ASRock (Taiwan)[citation needed]
Asus (Taiwan)[citation needed]
Barnes & Noble (United States)[citation needed]
Cisco (United States)[30]
Dell (United States) [31]
EVGA Corporation (United States)
Hewlett-Packard (United States)[32]
Intel (United States)[33]
IBM (United States)[citation needed]
Lenovo (China)[citation needed]
Microsoft (United States)[34]
MSI (Taiwan)[citation needed]
Motorola (United States)[31]
Netgear (United States)[citation needed]
Nintendo (Japan) [35]
Nokia (Finland)[29]
Panasonic (Japan)[citation needed]
Samsung (South Korea)[36]
Sharp (Japan)[citation needed]
Sony (Japan) [37]
Sony Ericsson (Japan/Sweden)[38]
Vizio (United States)[39]


But, here's the thing. Foxconn is busy working on the laborless factory...a factory pretty much devoid of any labor, done entirely with robots. This boycott will only motivate the consortium of buyers to push for this sooner, rather than later. And 400,000 people who have a crappy existence now, earning a meager wage...will have even a crappier existence when they are out of work with no money, no place to live, and no food.

[joshcryer]

32. Wow, so slave labor is better than automated labor.

That's a new one.

How about everyone get a guaranteed living wage, whether they work or not? The Communists in China should want that, if they have any sort of moral compass at all.

[Old and In the Way]

36. No...the issue is a crappy job vs. no job at all.

Western consumers should be focused on better working conditions...but also demanding that Foxconn and their customers do not obsolete an entire class of workers for robots that can work 24/7 without any negative PR problems. I'm just noting that the foundation is being built to remove labor content from these products. Then these 400,000 people will be pushed back to the country where they can live a more miserable life than what they have now.

[Old and In the Way]

40. "How about everyone get a guaranteed living wage, whether they work or not?"

How about we do that here before we start demanding other countries do this for their citizens?

Good luck finding a Communist in China. The Communist Party is all about capitalism and greasing the skids for business....for a cut of the action, of course.

[joshcryer]

41. We'll have automation here and I'll damn sure be demanding it here.

If a state like Alaska can give each and every citizen money at the end of the year for using up oil, a state with a large automated manufacturing facility can give its citizens dividends.

The Communists in China are apparently running the full course Marx's Historical Materialism. Basically they're trying to beef up their industry so that they can develop past industrialism, to put it simply. It's one reason the country has embraced capitalism so much, because Marx basically said that capitalism was necessary to become Communist.

[Old and In the Way]

44. The Chinese were capitalists for thousands of years....Communists for about 50.

They are capitalists on steroids, today. If the OEMs continues to develop a product strategy that minimizes labor content (DFLM - Design for Laborless Manufacturing), the motivation to manufacture in China because nil. Raw materials are market priced globally. A pound of Sabic ABS resin costs the same here in the States as it does in Germany as it does in China. Same with electronic components. And virtually every other raw material commodity. If labor is factored out, there is no logical motivation to build product in China and there's a net negative when transit costs, leadtimes/inventories, and communication costs are factored in.

I don't see any rosy post-industrial future for China, though. While we may have a mature, post industrial economy and will benefit when labor costs are no longer a cost driver in product costs by returning these operations closer to the consumer, I just don't see that China has the same infrastructure and socio-economic maturity to benefit. They have over built the country and without a manufacturing base, I don't know how they progress through the 21st century. Loss of industrial jobs...and the white collar management/financial jobs that support their manufacturing sector, will be a huge economic disaster to China. I doubt that slide back into the good old days of 1970's style communism where China was a macro version of today's North Korean....but it will be a very unhappy country where rising expectations and a real middle-class life style has taken root. To lose these gains will be a bitter pill indeed.

[joshcryer]

46. I looked up that Foxconn automation story. They're not taking it that far.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/243169/foxconns_parent_may_be_planning_to_make_robots.html

They're getting rid of some labor but not all of it any time soon.

[Old and In the Way]

48. Ultimately, it's not Foxconn's decision.

That decision will be made by the OEM's who control their product designs. The OEM's know their product costs pretty well...down to the pennies, I imagine. These contracts are done with 'Open Book' expectations. They know what the electronics, plastic moldings, and metal stampings cost. They know the total labor and the labor rate used. They know the variable and fixed OH costs, too. They even know Foxconn's profit margin. The only place where costs can be taken out is....you guessed it....labor. That's where the product designers are spending their time - how to design the product in such a way as to reduce or eliminate the labor cost (and increase the product reliability by taking out the human factor in the process). When they present a new product to manufacture to Foxconn, they already know how they want to make it and it will be predicated on a design that can be made with as much robotic assembly as possible.

The product is cheaper, more reliable, and they don't have to deal with the 'slave labor/suicides/factory accidents' negative PR that the consumer is becoming sensitive to. I'm not saying that Foxconn or the OEMs will have this done 100% in the next 3 or 4 years...but Foxconn is simply reading the writing on the wall and they are signaling that they will be the assembly partner in this Design for Laborless Manufacturing process which is underway now.

[joshcryer]

49. You're talking about a level of AI that is no where on the horizon, imho.

I'm not saying I disagree with you in principle, but if Foxconn could do that then they wouldn't even have to hire people to make the robots.

The robots would do that.

[Old and In the Way]

50. We shall see...the changes I've seen in manufacturing over the past 35 years

are mind boggling. It does not necessarily have to be robotics intensive, either. It could be redesigning the product to reduce/eliminate screws, clips, rearranging component assemblies, or component miniaturization/integration. Foxconn labor payroll is approx. $720MM/year....when you include housing, food costs, and personnel management, the number must be over $1 Billion a year There is plenty of incentive for both Foxconn and the OEM to reduce this component of the cost equation.

[LanternWaste]

73. Paul Kennedy's 'Rise and Fall of the Great Powers' has a rather different conclusion

"I don't see any rosy post-industrial future for China..."


Paul Kennedy's 'Rise and Fall of the Great Powers' has a rather different conclusion. And although it's initial release was in the mid-eighties, his forecast of China's industrial productivity was rather prescient re: GDP, GNP, military spending, etc.

Later editions have seen his prognostications strongly reinforced.

[FredisDead]

35. How many companies on

that list do the Chinese people protest against for breaking chinese labor laws?

Apple

Foxconn protesters

[Old and In the Way]

38. Certainly, Apple is getting the focus from these protests.

I somehow doubt that Apple is unique in their contract with Foxconn relative to the other customers that buy products from Foxconn. But they are undoubtedly the most highly visible in terms of profitability and consumer product awareness. If I were organizing for these protesters, I'd single out Apple, too. As other posters in this thread note, get Apple to change their contract with Foxconn for better working conditions, the rest will follow.

The point I'm making here is that the game is about to change where these workers will simply disappear. There won't be any need for protests at some point in the near future because there will be no workers getting exploited. But what happens to these people then? Will their quality of life get better? Or will it get a lot worse? Sadly, I think it will be the latter. Instead of getting $150.00/mo plus room and board for factory work, they'll return to their rural homes and go back to their pre-1990 wage of < $20.00/month.

[joshcryer]

42. If they have massive automation there, we'll have it here.

I agree with you that this is the eventual outcome, but if we're automating, too, then the same effects will happen here, and we'll have to start demanding a living wage if we're going to survive. Or move to open source hardware.

[Old and In the Way]

47. See my post #44 - I agree...once product labor is reduced/eliminated, there's no advantage

to manufacture in China. It will make our economy a little better, but it will make China's a lot worse.

I've always thought that while it makes total sense for a company to minimize their product costs on a micro-economic basis, it is a fundamental disaster for a macro-economy. Back in the early 80's, I worked as a buyer for an industrial machine tool manufacturer. We built surface grinders, industrial drill presses, and gear hobbing machine tools. One of the products I bought were GE DC motors. They were typical 20-50HP motors to drive the machine tools. Typically, it would take 3-4 weeks to get these motors after placing an order. Suddenly, I was quoted 16-20 weeks. Big problem! When I started to research what was happening, I found out that they were moving the product line from their Lynn, Ma.(IIRC) factory to Mexico. The reason? To reduce the cost. They didn't give me a price break, they were simply making better margins to meet their stockholder expectations. I remember thinking back then..."well, that's great for GE...but what if every company employed this same strategy? Who'd be working here to buy the products they were producing?"

[Possumpoint]

2. Today

I saw a piece on one of the big three this morning on the huge factories in China that hand assemble these devices. That the workers are as young as 12 and work 12 to 15 hours shifts 6 days a week. That there were 400,000 people employed at this one factory and they had to string nets around the building to stop the employees from jumping off the roof to commit suicide.

Doesn't matter in that I can't afford their stuff anyway.

[sce56]

8. Great iDea! As I type on my iMacwhile waiting for my iPhone to ring or while glancing at my iPad

I love their products such great quality and innovation. So lets bring on the Boycott and get them to lead the pac in reforms. I say this with tired body and mind I worked 17 hours yesterday and another eight today that time of year when we work a lot to repair the equipment. But what the hay why not at least I got 8 of OT then 9 DT yesterday and all of today was DT! Uncle Sam loves it for sure the taxes the taxes......

[HuckleB]

11. So you'll stop using your Apple products until things change?

[LanternWaste]

74. I thought boycotts simply denied one the ethical environmen

I thought boycotts simply denied one the ethical environment to make a new purchase from the corp. being considered rather than denying the ethical environment to make use of an already purchased product.

Precisely how does my non-use of an already-purchased device affect sales if it is indeed, already bought by me?

[Zalatix]

4. Today, Apple, tomorrow EVERY OTHER COMPANY

that outsources American jobs.

[HuckleB]

7. I say EVERY company TODAY!

We're just chasing windmills by focusing on Apple.

[joshcryer]

13. "Chasing windmills" by focusing on the largest exploiter of labor?

Really?

Fine, I won't buy any more electronics from anyone. There, happy?

I sure as hell won't ever buy from Apple, never have, never will.

[HuckleB]

15. First, prove that Apple is the largest exploiter.

Do you really think you haven't purchased products from companies worse than Apple?

Really?

Now be honest.

[joshcryer]

19. They sell iPhones for 4-6x the cost to make. iPads for 1.5-2x the cost to make.

Meanwhile other companies sell their electronics at cost if a bit cheaper than cost.

I'm sure I've bought products from companies worse than Apple. But we're talking about boycotting, right? No more.

[HuckleB]

22. Prove this claim, for starters.

Then prove that phones make Apple the biggest in the world in all of electronics.

This is a bit surreal. Don't you think?

[joshcryer]

29. iPhone 4S, cost to build? $188. Cost to buy? $680.

iPhone 4S:

http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/Pages/iPhone-4S-Carries-BOM-of-$188,-IHS-iSuppli-Teardown-Analysis-Reveals.aspx

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16875100034

Tell you what, it's clear that there's a failure on my part to communicate properly.

What I mean is Apple has the highest margins of all electronics manufacturers. They make the most profit.

[Atman]

34. First, hardly anyone pays retail price for an iPhone.

Second, hardly anyone pays retail price for ANY smart phone. And if you were honest about it, you'd also show the full retail price of comparable smart phones from Samsung, Sony, HTC and other major manufacturers. They're all in the same price range as the iPhone.

[joshcryer]

39. There are Android models that sell, retail, for $100.

Manufacture costs are likely in the $90s. Kindle Fire sells for $199 and its manufacture costs are $202. Electronics in every other industry sell at very low margins. Very low, if not at a loss. You can go buy a Foxconn motherboard for $50 on Newegg, modern motherboard. It's selling for maybe $10 more than it costs to make. Yes, Sony, Samsung, HTC, and other major manufacturers are getting away with high margins on their smart phones because they have a niche, brand recognition, and the like.

But, Apple remains the most profitable of them all, and thus deserves all the heat it can get.

[Atman]

43. So you're okay with slave labor as long as the margins are low?

Interesting. So you're really not upset with Apple, or even Foxconn; you just want your shit at cost, regardless of the hellish conditions in which it is produced. And you've mentioned companies even selling at BELOW cost. Why would they do that? It's called "dumping," and it's actually illegal in some cases. Manufacturers will "dump" excess inventory, or eat a loss for a time in an attempt to gain market share, but when/if they succeed, the make up for it by jacking up the price to cover the loss.

As for the Kindle, it is a good case in point; Amazon is trying to dig into Apple's market share. The margin will be made up initially, they hope, through app and book sales. Remember, it's sold primarily as an e-reader, and books sell for significantly more than .99 apps. And its proprietary, just like an iPad, so once they build up a market, then they can start raising their prices. And they will.

I'm astonished that you think any company can run a business by losing money on its products. As for your $100 Android phone, we were talking about comparable smart phones, with comparable features and quality, not pos no-names that break in a week.

[joshcryer]

45. No, please don't spin my words. I think that you can measure exploitation.

And those with low margins might still have slave labor but they're not as exploitive as those with high margins. So what's wrong with focusing on those with high margins who have the profit and income able to change the system if the consumer demands it of them?

The low margin people aren't going to do squat. They exist off of the fact that the high margin companies create the overall supply chain, so they can subsist.

iPhone gets licensing fees from phone companies, iPhone gets music fees from iTunes, iPhone gets app fees from the app store. And, in fact, iPhone is sold for less than retail (as you even admit) when it comes to contracting, it's likely not selling for "$600-700" when you pay $200 for it and a 2 year contract that adds up to $1500. It's probably somewhere between $400-500 that you ultimately pay for the phone.

Compare that to the Novo7 which is $79 and made in the same working conditions as an iPad which sells for $499.

I am of course against all forms of slave labor, but I can't sit back and say Novo7 is a product that is as exploitive as iPad 2. That would be, frankly, throwing out any sense of proportion whatsoever. Let's all go protest MIPS Inc and their Novo7! We're horrible people!

[Atman]

88. Buy that $79 Novo...and use it alongside an iPad. See if you can make it for a week.

Seriously. OF COURSE you can buy cheaper shit. You can buy a $79 gas grill that won't make it through the summer. You can buy a $300 plasma tv that will die before your cable agreement is up. No one is denying that there is some seriously cheap shit on the market. But then, you're just buying seriously cheap shit.

.

[joshcryer]

92. I probably could, being poor most of my life, I made do with what I had.

But, to say the $79 Novo "won't make it through the summer" is, I think, total bullshit. It's made by the same laborers, it has less failure points. Certainly it destroys an iPad as far as functionality (no camera so you can's stream video or take pictures, etc). But overall it can serve a similar purpose (get another $20 microsd card and you can watch movies on it and whatnot).

I still don't think you've refuted the fact that Apple has very high margins on their products.

[Atman]

89. Actually, you are WRONG.

I researched it. Did a pretty thorough Google search, and I went through several sites, from CNET to Newegg. There are NO smart phones, Android or otherwise, in this price range without a two year service agreement. Which puts even the shittiest phones in line with the iPhone. I got my iPhone 4 for $199 with a two-year agreement. So how is some POS no-name Android phone better? Seriously, show me where you found a real phone with no service contract for "$100 retail." You're in fantasy land. Since they're all made at a Foxconn factory in China, yeah, I'll admit, I'll buy the quality product instead of jumping on the "I hate Apple" bandwagon. If owning POS hardware is the new cool, forgive me, but I'll hang on to quality and be uncool instead.

[joshcryer]

91. I should've provided the link when I made that statement.

Here: http://lazure2.wordpress.com/2011/12/11/worlds-lowest-cost-us40-50-android-smartphones-sub-100-retail-are-enabled-by-spreadtrum/

The key is that you're in fact not paying $199 for your iPhone, you're paying much more than that.

[ZombieHorde]

59. I am not sure which companiens should be compared, but here is Apple, Microsoft, and Sony.

http://data.cnbc.com/quotes/AAPL

http://data.cnbc.com/quotes/MSFT

http://data.cnbc.com/quotes/SNE

[joshcryer]

64. Sickest part of all this is Apple's vile shares keep rising despite the bad news.

You just know the corporate brokers see their exploitation as a good thing. It means that they're protecting their investors by making sure that child labor is being used, etc.

[we can do it]

24. I Agree the Apple Haters Are Getting Sickening

[HuckleB]

26. I'm not making that accusation.

But the evidence is quite profound.

[MattSh]

56. Wow, great formula!

Don't do anything until every little fact can be pinned down. The only thing that will guarantee is that nothing will ever be done.

Our capitalist overlords thank you.

[joshcryer]

61. I dislike all corporations. Apple is merely the worst transgressor.

They make unbelievable profits exploiting slave labor to its ends.

Apple can still please me if they pull back the exploitive behavior.

Then I turn down the heat.

They have all the incentive in the world to fix these labor practices.

Justify your child labor derived products, I refuse to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_hardware

[joshcryer]

63. Because I won't be bothering their fans by chastizing them?

And their fans can sleep in peace that some guy on a web forum somewhere is happy?

And we can all hold hands and sing kumbaya!

It's about perceptions. They're certainly having a credibility hit, what with the calls for boycott and all.

Do you think the calls for boycott would exist were it not for loud people, including non-Apple buyers or fans?

The non-Apple fans, or "anti-Apple-haters" as it was called, are probably the loudest of them all.

[Zalatix]

23. Why not today? Good idea!

[we can do it]

37. Me Too! Damn, How Many Companies Have Shit On American Workers?

most of them have sent all manufacturing to China, but its all apple's fault, yeah right.

[LanternWaste]

75. We often forecast a future predicated on our own biases.

"We're just chasing windmills by focusing on Apple...."

We often forecast a future predicated on our own biases and opinions.

[FredisDead]

5. Apple does have a long history

of ignoring the abuse of workers at Foxconn.

From June 26, 2006
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1046612/ipod-maker-admits-breaking-chinese-labour-laws
Foxconn's PR then made life worse for Apple by saying that a team from the Cupertino based outfit had investigated its operations and given it the thumbs up.

[geekd]

17. apple and microsoft....public enemy number 1!!

apple and microsoft has a hold on the computing market by their marketing schemes and the way they do business. microsoft boasts of being in seattle washington yet is based out of connecticut for tax reasons. Being greedy and not paying taxes in where they reside, they have no problem keeping the same business practices. Substandard products and absolutely worthless support for the product they defend. apple is even worse, you cant even put open source products on their hardware, DOESNT THAT CONSTITUTE A MONOPOLY?? i am not a genius or a business man so what do i know?? those are 2 companies that need to change or risk losing not only profits, but necessary business capital. Anti-trust hearings for apple, and a giant class action lawsuit for against microsoft for their piss pore firewall and outsourced indian based tech support.

[we can do it]

21. All of them or none

[HuckleB]

27. +1,000,000,000,000

[joshcryer]

33. Let's do it. But let's make Apple be the face of it.

I will no longer buy any electronics I don't make myself.

[Brickbat]

28. Made in China = slave labor, whether it's an iPad or a pair of jeans or a frying pan or a balloon.

[Romulox]

52. Has anyone said "Everybody's doin' it!" yet? No reason why the biggest company on earth should

have any special responsibility in any matter. Especially not when that company has Mr. "Inconvenient Truth" on the board.

[Atman]

55. Well, YOU pull that out of your ass every time.

Your hatred of Apple is legendary. And yes, I'm sure this all has to do with Al Gore. Of course, you could actually read through the thread and see why not EVERYONE is jumping on your "I Hate Apple" bandwagon. Because Apple doesn't own Foxconn. You are undoubtedly using something from Foxconn in your computer now, or at least some of the electronics in your home. But don't let reality get in your way. We should just shutter China completely, and go back to abacuses and...oh, wait, abacuses are from China, too. Fuck. Now what?



You crap is sooooooo old, Romulox.

.

[Romulox]

57. Yeah. I'm the "Apple hater" who owns an iMac, Iphone, and a Macbook Pro.

Or it could be that you are just hurling whatever invective that comes to mind in defense of the indefensible.

I will say this though--all my Apple stuff was purchased prior to the major revelations about Foxconn. I'm not purchasing any more Apple stuff from now on, including not purchasing a new Iphone when my contract expires next month.

Now, how is any of the above an excuse for exploiting vulnerable workers?

[Atman]

60. You tell me...

Why haven't you cancaled all your Apple devices, Mr. High and Mighty?

Oh, wait...hypocrisy is calling, asking for you. I'll tell 'em you're hiding behind the couch.

[Romulox]

70. What does "cancaled all your Apple devices" even mean? Shall I destroy my iMac

with a hammer?

You're one of the worst debaters here on DU, atman. Just awful.

[Atman]

71. I assume your iPhone has a data account and service agreement, correct?

Or do you just carry it around to look cool?

You want to debate, let's debate. I'm just responding to ridiculous shit you post on a message board, and putting up with your insults. You jump all over everyone's shit for using Apple products, while you use them yourself. What the hell are WE supposed to do? Smash OURS with a hammer while you keep using yours?

That is one of the simple points I have been making that you seem to want to conveniently ignore. Many of us have thousands of dollars and years and years of work invested in the platform and the products. As other posts have pointed out, not all Apple products are made at Foxconn, and not necessarily even in China, especially older Macs. But you mount your white steed and demand that everyone else do what you're apparently unwilling to do -- ditch their Apple products and buy stuff from some unnamed supplier that doesn't even seem to exist in the real world.

I could give a crap about your petty jabs at my debating skills. You're consistently a boor and your holier-than-thou attitude shines through in virtually every post you make.

[Romulox]

77. Nothing you have posted in any of these threads excuses Apples abhorrent behavior. nt

[Romulox]

78. And the ONLY "people" I've criticized here are a) Apple; and b) Apple DEFENDERS

Link to a single post of mine excoriating Apple USERs. You won't find one, not the least of which is because I myself freely admit to being an Apple user.

However, I will NOT be purchasing any new Apple products, going forward. That's the difference--you want to find excuses to continue to support Apple.

[Atman]

83. What will you buy?

You've been an Apple user, so you come to accept a certain level of quality and user-experience. So, what are you looking at to replace your iPhone and your MacBook? What manufacturer isn't on the Foxconn list? You're going to move from a Porche Turbo Carrera to a Kia Rio?

There is a reason you use Apple products. You'll quickly discover that reason when you switch to the no-name $9.99 cell phone and the $300 laptop from WalMart. Oh, wait...Foxconn probably makes those, too.

This oughta be rich.

.

[joshcryer]

68. Apple alledgedly cracked down on the child labor practices Mike Daisey observed.

Mike was in China in 2010, so, technically, if you want more morally clean iPhone you'd buy one from a later period, and the one bought between that time period is the evil one, but your mileage may vary, just sayin'.

[Romulox]

69. I can only use the information I now have to move forward. nt

[Atman]

72. Now THERE is some serious debating!

You were given some information with which to move forward, and you don't seem to want to take it. I mentioned in a couple of the other threads on this subject that Apple had actually been making progress in regard to the situation at Foxconn, as the poster pointed out. Daisy said his information was from 2010, but this is now 2012. So...move forward.

[Romulox]

79. Apple's human rights record is unacceptable to me, in 2012. That's what we're discussing. nt

[Atman]

84. America's human rights record is unacceptable to me. I guess I'll leave the country.

Or deal the system the best I can, do what I can to change things from within. Taking your ball and going home doesn't do shit for anyone, even if it strokes your holier-than-thou ego.

[Romulox]

85. Just another justification/excuse. nt

[Atman]

87. Yes, you've come up with some good ones thus far.

Keep trying.

.

[LanternWaste]

76. lacking specific relevance, I imagine we often use blanks

"that company has Mr. "Inconvenient Truth" on the board...."

When lacking specific relevance, I imagine we often shoot blanks to make a tertiary point... quite often directly prior to our use of a generic argument that we assign to an ill-defined "other".

[Romulox]

80. So...Al Gore ISN'T on the board? Or is it make-believe time? nt

[Romulox]

81. "Former Vice President Al Gore Joins Apple’s Board of Directors"

CUPERTINO, California—March 19, 2003—Apple® today announced that Albert Gore Jr., the former Vice President of the United States, has joined the Company’s Board of Directors. Mr. Gore was elected at Apple’s board meeting today.

“Al brings an incredible wealth of knowledge and wisdom to Apple from having helped run the largest organization in the world—the United States government—as a Congressman, Senator and our 45th Vice President. Al is also an avid Mac user and does his own video editing in Final Cut Pro,” said Steve Jobs, Apple’s CEO. “Al is going to be a terrific Director and we’re excited and honored that he has chosen Apple as his first private sector board to serve on.”

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2003/03/19Former-Vice-President-Al-Gore-Joins-Apples-Board-of-Directors.html

Now then. What were you on about?

[Atman]

90. Holy crap! Romulox is actually right about something!

Yes, Al Gore is on the BOD of Apple. Because, after all, he did invent the internet.

.

[Liberal_in_LA]

58. kick

[Nye Bevan]

65. Sorry, but after finally figuring out the perfect arrangement for my iPhone apps,

and finally figuring out how to reliably sync calendar, contacts, and tasks, I cannot participate in this boycott.

[joshcryer]

66. I love it when I get a system set just the way I like it. But, maybe...

...you can hold off on buying the next one or buying new apps for the time being to send a nice message.

[mmonk]

67. Excellent.

[Pisces]

82. Ha, good luck getting people to stop using their phones and computers. I predict they will sell more

ipad 3's than both iPad 1 and and 2 models combined. When iPhone 5 comes out, I predict it also will have record number of
people purchasing them.

All of our electronic components are made in China and all of the factories run the same. The Chinese government needs to make sure that their people are being taken care of. They need a "Norma Rae" Maybe a fine or sections against the government until they clean up their working conditions in totality, not just one factory.

[adigal]

86. I'm boycotting, I was going to buy an I-Pad, now I am not

Just going to use my kids' computers for now.