Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

BrentWil

(2,384 posts)
Mon Jan 30, 2012, 01:17 AM Jan 2012

The most practical response to Citizens United: Abolish Campaign Finance Laws

Public financing isn't going to happen. THe best realistic means to reform these laws is to simply abolish them, allow anyone to give whatever they want and have the simple requirement of transparency. That way, candidates will get funded without selling their views (There will be sugar daddies for a wide range of views), the public knows who is funding what, and the system will not have all these secrete groups. Actual campaigns will spend the money.

If people running for office don't have to walk though a complex system that doesn't work, better people will run. It cost too much money for someone to try to run today because of this complex system. Just make it simple and easy. The only law should be transparency.

14 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
1. How would 'Abolish(ing) Campaign Finance Laws' give transparency?
Mon Jan 30, 2012, 02:49 AM
Jan 2012

If a LAW mandating transparency were passed after all of that abolishing, it wouldn't lead to a less well-funded candidate getting a voice.

Because the way the candidates get elected is by spending millions of dollars on air time to influence the voters. That's what's happening now, and under your reform it would continue.

We don't have the Fairness Doctrine, no venue is forced to carry all viewpoints to to inform the public of the candidates with less funding. It's all about who is being paid, media consolidation, and the money in the entire process.

Your solution would change nothing. If we don't get rid of Citizen United by law and don't level the playing field by requiring equal time, nothing will change.

And the simplistic, though beautiful idea you are presenting is what the GOP wants. They want dollars = speech. The money in the elections is not the only problem but it's the main one.

BrentWil

(2,384 posts)
4. Actually it does
Mon Jan 30, 2012, 09:32 AM
Jan 2012

It creates an environment where raising money is easy and it doesn't require a professional infrastructure to do. It would allow many other people to get into the process.

As far as money, there is a point at which money DOESN'T actually matter. One can not buy 25 hours of TV time a day.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
6. Raising money from the people most disenfranchised is not, and will not be, 'easy.' Campaigns are
Mon Jan 30, 2012, 01:59 PM
Jan 2012

Not run by people who lack the basics of life that politicans have, savings, housing, connections or employment, financial backers, etc.

People struggling to keep a roof over their heads and feed their families are not going to find money lying around for this sort of activity. There's a reason why it was said 'politics are a passtime for the leisure classes.'

Unless a person is connected into something that will pay their living expenses while running, they can't make a go. Thus the problem of PACs once again enters into the equation and an unequal playing field.

I agree with you that federal financing of elections, which was at one time a voluntary donation on IRS tax forms, possibly will never return or has been ineffective. The country has regressed.

Okay, I'm going to rant a bit here so if you have time, hear me out:

With the League of Women Voters and ACORN effectively muzzled and as much disenfranchisement as has occured since the election of 2000, we are going back to the Jim Crow days in some areas. Those were the days when only property owners could vote, and there were all kinds of blockades put in place to prevent voting rights. How were those who had had their property, labor, even their bodies stolen, going to get to be property owners?

That only came through centuries of struggle despite domestic terrorists and the growth of the wealth of their communities through acknowledging their right to to keep the results of their labor with progressive legislation. They were unble to fund elections but the liberal status quo gave way to an idea whose time had come.

Some cities in the last few years have passed restrictions on voting to match the Tea Party standards of 'taxpayers' as to who will vote. The rightwingers have claimed for years, by financing every venue of communication to say these falsehoods, that the poor will simply vote themselves benefits from the more wealthy citizenry. That comes from the Randian 'producers vs. parasites' argument and is not related to the Constitution as most people understand it to be construed. All equal, means all.

They never bring up the fact that the wealthy have rigged the tax codes and contracts from the government to get wealthy and then to keep their money and give nothing back to the commons they benefitted from. The labor of the poor, who built the infrastructure which they benefitted from, whose low wages and lack of benefits also increased their profit margins, are discarded in this equation which made them wealthy.

The ideology of the Tea Party claims since renters are not 'property owners,' they should not vote, not taking into account that the renters are paying property taxes for the owners through their rent. And many of the property owners do not 'own' their property outright, but are leveraged and borrow against what they project their income from those rents are going to be. Thus the rents are based on speculation, and in the end, it is the poor who pay a price that is never acknowledged.

That rant over.

This has been driven through their paid media propagandists and it's paying off pretty well. Your idea that their buying 25 hours of air time a day won't make a difference, is disproven by what we see around us in this country daily.

People are isolated from each other by long hours of work or distance. Media has set the framework for how people see each other, and when voting time arrives, that impression is voted upon. Those who make decisions based on non-media sources are affected by those who are in other venues, such as their school, church and workplace.

We need to make election reforms, but the will does not seem to be there. OWS has survived despite media blackout and negative news stories about the events and not the resonating ideas they propose. They may create a groundswell for changing what we have now.

One of their first demands is to take money out of politics, which you don't seem to agree with here. I applaud your working on solutions and believe your heat is in the right place, but the way you're advocating it is too close ot the money = speech meme. I don't mean to characterize you negatively, it's just the way it sounds to me.



BrentWil

(2,384 posts)
7. No, it is never easy for the poor to run for Office...
Tue Jan 31, 2012, 12:15 AM
Jan 2012

However, the current legal puzzle makes it impossible. Only someone with a lot of money can figure it out by hiring lots of attorneys.

My point is that the reason it is hard to raise money is because you have to get a lot of people to give something. There are a few rich people who do care about the poor. This would allow them to be more effective giving. Every cause will have some sort of sugar daddy, in other words.

BrentWil

(2,384 posts)
9. Money does allow speech
Tue Jan 31, 2012, 05:40 PM
Jan 2012

And restrictions on the use of money for speech is an attack on speech. I am with the ACLU on this one. Moreover, the current restrictions hurt the little guy because I costs money to get around them

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
2. Nope. Even with transparency, the little voices get drowned out.
Mon Jan 30, 2012, 02:53 AM
Jan 2012

All that people see are the "Congressman Soandso Eats Babies" ads from the Super-PACs and 527s.

What's needed is a Constitutional amendment that explicitly states that Congress has the power to regulate campaign financing and spending, and that corporations are not human beings and don't get civil rights.

BrentWil

(2,384 posts)
5. A Constitutional amendment ain't happening
Mon Jan 30, 2012, 09:34 AM
Jan 2012

That's my point. What could happen. As far as your case, my plan would take care of outside groups or at least make them less relevant. If you wanted to give money to someone, you would just give them money. No need for a super-PAC

 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
13. A Constitutional amendment is the only thing that will fix this. Asking Congress to do so ....
Sat Feb 4, 2012, 05:15 AM
Feb 2012

... (vis a vis our other exchange on this thread), asks Congress to act against their own interests.

BrentWil

(2,384 posts)
14. Congres creating rules isn't going to fix it and a Constitutional amendment isn't going to happen
Sat Feb 4, 2012, 06:16 PM
Feb 2012

SO why not support this? It is really the only thing that has a shot of happening. Moreover, it wouldn't hurt the chances of a constitutional amendment.

 

Sheepshank

(12,504 posts)
10. Nope, can't go along with this.
Tue Jan 31, 2012, 06:12 PM
Jan 2012

I don't think eliminating campaign finance rules will help at all. It would simply remove all facade of what is happening via citizens united. The nature of the lies and propoganda regarding those financial disclosures would become so convolted, so twisted with a barrage of justification that a campaigner who got money directly from the Chinese Government would make it look like a noble patriotic duty.

Personally I don't think limiting finance contributions is helping in any way. The way to ensure an equal playing field would be to put the onus on the campaigner and limit campaign spending. Cap on spending for any elected public office and the amount would be set, based on the nature of the office that is being sought.

BrentWil

(2,384 posts)
11. Facades are expensive.... and limits on spending only happen with a constitutional amendment
Tue Jan 31, 2012, 07:40 PM
Jan 2012

Facades are expensive. You are right, campaigns do spend whatever they want to. Take the facade away and allow anyone to compete openly.

How is what I am saying worse then the current system?

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»The most practical respon...