Buyers reject Chevrolet Volt's cost, Nissan Leaf's looks

[Javaman]

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2012/01/reasons-not-to-buy-chevrolet-volt-costly-nissan-leaf-ugly/1

Despite their small share of total vehicle sales, the Chevrolet Volt, Nissan Leaf and Toyota Prius garner a lot of attention from new car shoppers, according to J.D. Power and Associates' 2012 Avoider Study, which looked at the reason that people didn't buy a particular model.

The study finds that gas mileage is the most important attribute shoppers are looking at now, surpassing older key reasons such as exterior styling, reliability and price.

That puts the Volt, Prius and Leaf in a good position as each are among the most fuel-efficient cars in the country.

The Prius recorded about 140,000 sales in 2011, but the Volt and Leaf weren't particularly big sellers last year. There are a lot of reasons for that, ranging from start-up issues, the earthquake and tsunami in Japan, and other supply constraints. However, there are other issues besetting the fortunes of these green machines, according to the study.

more at link...

[Broderick]

1. I heard that a major portion of all

Volts sold were to government agencies. Not sure that's true or not. I don't think but 10k sold?

[Snake Alchemist]

2. I'd love to get a Volt or a Leaf BUT...

I have no garage at my home and the car would have to be charged on the side of the house. The cable would almost certainly "walk away" one night while I was sleeping.

[Taverner]

30. Are there any parking lots with free charging around you?

[Snake Alchemist]

32. No, I'm in a residential neighborhood.

I'm sure I could find a parking lot somewhere, but that would sort of negate the usefulness of having a car.

[PavePusher]

42. Why "free charging"?

Would you expect to get free fuel for a combustion vehicle?

[Taverner]

43. Because that's often the case

Most places offer free charging, or a small (50 cents) fee

[Bluenorthwest]

3. Chevrolet promoted the Volt ahead of release with a much lower price point

The actual release price was twice what they predicted.

[Romulox]

6. Nonsense. nt

[LibertyLover]

16. It wasn't exactly twice the advertised cost

but it was considerably more than initially announced. I remember when Chevy started talking about the Volt. The price they quoted was reasonable - low twentys (thousand) dollars. Something within purchasing reach of many consumers. But as development continued, the price estimate kept rising. When they finally got it out for sale, the price was, if I recall, almost $40K. Not Jaguar pricing of course, but still steeper than many consumers wanted to go, especially if it were a second car. It's too bad really.

[TheWraith]

25. No. The price increase was only a few thousand dollars.

They projected high twenties after the $7500 tax credit, it ended up being $32,500.

[high density]

31. $32,500 can buy you a lot nicer car than a Volt (IMO)

The fact we need $7500 in federal subsidizes to get them even to that price seems to indicate there's a long way to go. We've got to start somewhere, but it should be no surprise to anybody that these are not flying off the lots at this price, subsidized or not. I'd rather spend $20k on a Mazda3 that gets 40mpg highway. The remaining $12,500 buys a 100,000 mile supply of gas for the car.

[JSnuffy]

35. That's my new Tacoma...

mmmm....

[Snake Alchemist]

36. That is probably what my tax return is buying this year.

Although not blue.

[Ian David]

4. Finally, cars that will save you lots of money on gasoline...

... priced out of the range of those consumers that need to save money on gasoline.

[HughBeaumont]

8. This. +1000.

Sorry guys; I'm not in middle management and have a kid who's about to start college.

[SammyWinstonJack]

11. And that is the point of the pricing on these cars, I would be willing to bet.

[laundry_queen]

15. Yep, some econ major

screwed up when trying to find the equilibrium price that the market would bear.

[NMDemDist2]

5. that's one of the reasons why i didn't get a Volt last month

I ended up with an 'e-assist' Buick on a lease, figured in 3.5 years i'd have lots more options for green cars

what i really wanted was the VW diesel, but no dealers within a reasonable range so i didn't go there....

[Romulox]

7. Neither the Prius nor other electric/hybrids make economic sense. Full stop.

Not at gas < $5 a gallon.

[Motown_Johnny]

18. The (up to) $7,500.00 federal tax credit helps offset the cost somewhat

and if you drive an average of 50 miles a day without using gasoline the fuel savings add up. Some states also have tax credits for electric vehicles.


With gas at $3.00 a gallon and a car that gets 30 miles per gallon you spend ten cents per mile on fuel. An electric car would cost you about $0.034 to cover that same mile. So at 50 miles a day you would spend $5.00 in gasoline or $1.70 in electricity. This means you save $3.30 a day. If we extend this to 6 days a week, and on the seventh it rests, then you save $19.80 a week in fuel costs. Do this 50 weeks a year and you save $990.00 a year.

In 8 years you would have saved $7,920 dollars on fuel, if gas is $3.00/gallon (I have been paying ~$3.50 lately).

The 2012 Volt starts at MSRP $31,645. You then get the tax credit to help offset that price up front (well, next April 15th). Then you get the fuel savings depending on how much you drive it without using gasoline. Even then it is estimated at 37 MPG which is somewhat better than the 30 MPG I was using as an estimate for a similar vehicle.

So if you can get a vehicle that is as nice as The Volt and gets 30 MPG for around $22,000 then you can argue that the numbers don't work out for you. It does depend on how much you drive it on it's plug in charge and how long you own it. Resale value might come into play too but we don't have any solid numbers for that so I am not going to go there.


The Volt has only been out for one year. I think it is a pretty good start and although the numbers are pretty rough right now I expect that to change in the next 5 years or so.





Links to verify my numbers:

http://www.ecoworld.com/energy-fuels/electric-car-cost-per-mile.html

http://www.chevrolet.com/volt-electric-car/

http://www.mychevroletvolt.com/chevrolet-volt-tax-incentives-and-rebates

[lumberjack_jeff]

27. A 50 mile RT commute "without gas" requires a charging station at your workplace. n/t

[Motown_Johnny]

38. True

I should have included that in the post

[greenman3610]

9. if you take the clock back 8 years and substitute

"flat screen tv"
for electric cars - you'll understand something about "early adopters" and
how mass production lowers costs.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

10. You still pay for the power you use.

You will plug in your car and pay on your electric bill.

That energy has to be generated somewhere. Electricity in Texas is generated from burning natural gas. So it might not be any cheaper. I have seen no estimates of how much it actually costs in electricity when you drive a hybrid.

[Motown_Johnny]

14. the rule of thumb is that the cost is about 1/3 that of

gasoline powered vehicles.


It is a rough estimate because so many different factors go into what any individual is paying for either gasoline and electricity.


http://www.ecoworld.com/energy-fuels/electric-car-cost-per-mile.html

^snip^

For this reason, a battery powered car can take that same one gallon of gasoline, using the equivalent amount in kilowatt-hours, and go 96 miles, more than three times what a gasoline powered car can do.

[ProfessorGAC]

20. Ever Had To Run A Generator Because of A Storm?

Trust me, after those 5 days and only 2 rooms in the house powered up (plus the upstairs fridge), we paid WAY more per day for gas to run the generator than we would pay for 5 days of power. The per unit energy cost of gas is much higher than the killowatt-hour price paid to power companies. I don't have the exact figure here, but i would guess something well 3x. I was buying 3 of gas per day at $3.50 per gallon to run a little under half my house. That would translate to $28 day, whole house. Our electric bill is never close to $840. Even in the middle of a hot summer. Probably more like a bit over $200.
GAC

[SoCalDem]

33. and when "most" people start buying them, power plants will have to be BIGGER and more plentiful

and will burn MORE coal to produce power, or they will lobby harder for more nuke-plants

[PavePusher]

40. That should be more than offset by having fewer fuel-burning cars.

Efficiency-of-scale power generation. One large, much more efficient plant versus many smaller, less effiecent mobile generators.

That's the whole point of electric vehicles.

[Motown_Johnny]

12. They sold all the Volts that they made. It was tough to get a Volt last year

although that was only about 8,000 units.

They are aiming for upwards of 20,000 this year. That will be more of a test than the first year of production was.

I consider The Leaf the electric version of The Beetle. It is an economy car that is kinda funny looking but very practical. I'm not sure exactly how it is going to go over in an American market but I think it will do very well in Europe and Asia.

Ford says that they will have a fully electric version of The Focus this year. That will be a step up from The Leaf and maybe even The Prius. It will be interesting to see how this vehicle sells.

I don't think that there can be any doubt. In the near term, electric vehicles are going to be big.

[woo me with science]

13. Pics.

Chevy Volt


Nissan Leaf

[greytdemocrat]

17. It ain't cheap

A 16kWh lithium–ion battery pack powers Volt for an EPA–estimated 35 miles on a full charge. If you also have a full tank of gas, the total driving range is up to 375 miles11.

http://www.chevrolet.com/volt-electric-car/?seo=goo_|_2008_Chevy_Retention_|_IMG_Chevy_Volt_|_Chevy_Volt_|_chevy_volt&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Retention-Chevy-IMG_Chevy_Volt&utm_content=Search&utm_term=chevy_volt

Over 31K for this?? Sorry, FAIL.

[lumberjack_jeff]

21. My wife's commute is 25 miles each way.

She'd use about a gallon and a half each week, that's 167mpg in a Volt.

At $5.00/gallon it would save about $30/week over her current 30mpg car. Nontrivial, but a $1500 savings on gas isn't enough justification to buy a new car.

[greytdemocrat]

23. Well...

At least it looks safer than this:

http://www.smartusa.com/models/pure-coupe/overview.aspx

The SmartCar looks like a toy. I've seen them up close and I wouldn't
want to take this out on a highway.

[Motown_Johnny]

24. please read my post #18

I based my example on 50 miles a day, which seems to match your wife's commute pretty well. I also used a 30 mpg vehicle as the alternative

I admit that the fuel savings alone do not justify buying a new car but when the time comes to buy one new car or another then it might be worth looking into.

[lumberjack_jeff]

29. The economics for my situation are about as good at it gets

My power is $.07/kwh and gas stays pretty close to $4.00/gallon.

Not quite justifiable yet, but I think that gas will get more expensive.

[Motown_Johnny]

37. give it 5 years

I bet it changes by then

[AngryAmish]

19. I would buy a Leaf but would still need a gas powered backup

80% of the time I don't need the range. Actually, a golf cart would work pretty well for me if I could get my own path.

[Motown_Johnny]

22. Have you considered a natural gas vehicle?

You might want to do a Google search for natural gas filling stations in your area but a station can also be installed in your home/garage (assuming you live in a house).


Natural Gas vehicles are much cleaner than gasoline. The downsides are about half the range of a gasoline vehicle and the lack of stations to refill at (although they seem to be increasing slowly). They are a bit more expensive too but the fuel savings can be pretty large (depending on what you pay for natural gas).



http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-natural-gas/

[PavePusher]

26. Screw 'em. Where's my fucking EV-1?

Where's my electric car with 100+ mile battery-only range? Something actually useful?

[Snake Alchemist]

34. Same place as the electric Rav-4. nt

[PavePusher]

39. Is this it?

http://www.toyota.com/concept-vehicles/rav4ev.html

If it's got 4WD, I'll take it....

[blue_onyx]

41. Where are the previous vehicles?

"Although 1500 RAV4 EVs were built, only about 328 were sold, with the remaining vehicles being destroyed as they came off their leases."

http://www.trucktrend.com/features/news/2009/163_news090424_toyota_rav4_hybrid_suv/index.html#ixzz1l0fRA5Lz

EV1 and RAV4 EV met the same fate yet people only criticize GM. Interesting....

[Taverner]

28. I love my Leaf!

Awesome car - the only drawback is the 70 mile on one charge thingy

But I fully expect expansion packs available soon...