DOW Jones just surpassed its ALL-TIME high!

[JaneyVee]

Ah, now we just have to sit back & wait for all that wealth to just trickle down upon the masses, I can almost feel it now. Any day now the rich are going to take their wealth and bypass putting it in foreign banks to make themselves richer, and instead allow it to trickle down to the workers. This time they will do what's best for our country and not just their bank accounts, I just know it!

Life is good again.

[Motown_Johnny]

1. The (R)s will credit waterboarding

[MadHound]

2. Woo Hoo, the 1% is now wealthier than ever.

While the rest of us are being served austerity for supper.

Ever wonder why the markets rise on news of rising unemployment, or in this case the start of an austerity regime? Because what is good for the markets, what is good for the 1% isn't good for the rest of us.

[Johonny]

3. DAMN YOU OBAMA!!!!

[OldDem2012]

4. Gosh, I can't wait to check my investments! Oh, wait....

....they disappeared along with our savings during the W financial collapse.

[slackmaster]

16. I resisted the temptation to sell low, and it's all come back and more

I know that can be hard to do.

[Nye Bevan]

23. Me too. It was very hard not to panic and sell in 2008-2009,

especially as that's what many "experts" were telling us to do, but I am very happy that I hung in there.

[liberal_at_heart]

26. we were fortunate enough to be able to buy in 2008-2009

Unfortunately in 2011 we became unable to make contributions. We haven't made any contributions since.

[Enrique]

5. it's only because Mitt was just on TV n/t

[treestar]

13. rofl

I honestly would not be surprised to hear a right winger say that.

[malaise]

24. DUzy

[SharonAnn]

6. Darn, Obama's such a lousy socialist! The capitalists are getting rich.

[warrprayer]

7. Yay for the 1% n/t

[NYC_SKP]

8. I feel something trickling down on me, but it ain't wealth!

[99Forever]

9. Yay for the rich!

Woo hooooooo for Wall Street!

Austerity for the rest of you suckers.

[Warren Stupidity]

10. Since all of us working in corporate america traded pensions for 401Ks

and are steered into investing that money into equities, it isn't just "Hurray for the 1%", it is "I might be able to retire" and "gosh I sure hope it doesn't crash by 50% again before I retire". We are invested in this circus. Like it or not.

[treestar]

14. Yep

My father always moans when the stock market goes down, and he's middle class. But his retirement fund concerns him.

[99Forever]

15. Depends on your perspective.

If you still have a 401k, to many millions of us, you are rich. Try life with NO income for a while and get back to me.

[thetonka]

38. Why would anyone TRY to live without an income?

I've been laid off from a couple of jobs and the only period of time in my adult life where I willingly did not have a steady income was during college when I was able to live off of savings. I've worked retail, fast food, construction, rental yard lacky, my own businesses, and more. I don't care what the work is, if I need to pay the bills I WORK!!!

Attitudes like this are why the Conservatives think Liberals are free-loaders. If you don't like the situation you are in work to change it. Don't ever expect anyone else to change it for you, because in the end you will always be disappointed.

[99Forever]

41. Yeah that's right.

People live without incomes because they choose to. because there is ALWAYS work available to EVERYONE that wants it. Uh huh.

[thetonka]

44. I've never had a problem finding work

I have had trouble finding work I liked.

My Brother AND my Brother In Law are currently not working. Both of them have plenty of excuses for not working, and both of them dismiss jobs they can do. All of the fast food joints near me have had jobs in the last 6 months, the mini market is looking for someone, the 3 grocery stores have jobs, the Target has jobs, the Walmart has jobs, the big box stores have jobs .... Yet my Brother in Law sits at home and complains about not having a job.

A good friend of mine got laid off from his job as a CAD engineer. 2 Weeks of not working and he started putting up wallboard with his dad.

If you can can show me that you have exhausted every possible opportunity for a job, I'll sympathize, but in my experience the majority of the people who say they can not find a job, can not find a job they want.

[99Forever]

45. Walk a mile in my shoes.

Which Republicant/Teabagger website did you dig ^^^that^^^ attitude up at?

[thetonka]

46. Gotta love the ASSumptions

My opinions come from my life experience, NOT from political party propaganda!

[99Forever]

49. Enjoy your stay.

[earthside]

18. "I sure hope it doesn't crash ..."

Ah, there's the rub.

If you can't sell today, then this rise is pretty meaningless ... we're all just spectators and finger-crossers until you reach 59 years old and can start to get out of your 401K stock market trap.

Until then, even attentive 401K investors have to guess and hope that her/his choices survive and thrive -- and that is hard to do and involves mostly luck.

So, I'm not very excited about this 'news' and my hunch is that we are seeing a Quantitative Easing bubble in the markets --- where I should put my 401K money, I'm just not sure since my time frame is four or five years at the earliest.

By the way, I hate this 401K 'retirement' scheme ... it was a way for Carter and Reagan to artificially pump up the stock market back then --- and "privatizing Social Security" will be a way to pump up the markets when the bulge of the baby boomers start taking their investments out of the market in the next few years.

[JoePhilly]

27. Why can't you sell today?

Most 401k plans are structured such that you can re-balance your portfolio whenever you want. And, they include a wide array of investments, including some which are effectively Money market accounts, which are basically like cash.

And so, if you think the market is too high, you re-balance your portfolio moving more to one of those money market type accounts. If the market pulls back, maybe you re-balance again and move a greater percentage into equities.

401ks usually include some type of company match, and a tax deferment. Both help to increase overall gains.

So even if you simple invest in a 401k and put it all in a money market, you get a tax break and a company match. Which is a better investment than a checking account, or a CD.

[Yavin4]

32. Who has the time or the knowledge to do that?

Also, every time you move money around, you will be charged a hefty fee by your fund mgr.

That's the problem with 401Ks, you almost have to be a trader in order to get full benefits.

[JoePhilly]

37. Some advice I was given back in the mid-80s.

"Pay yourself first." This was the advice of a professor when I was in graduate school.

And what he meant by that was that you should consider yourself your own accountant. In addition to your regular job, you have a second job, and that job is to manage your money. And the way you pay yourself for doing that money management job, is by putting a specific amount of money into some type of savings account before you pay for anything else. That's how you pay yourself first.

Then, you figure out how much money is left, you figure out your bills, and then you allow yourself a small amount of disposal money.

Initially, you have no money, so the job of managing it isn't hard. So you might only pay yourself a very small amount. Over time, you try to increase that amount, perhaps taking a portion of any raises you ever receive. This money becomes the 6 months of money you'd live on if you lost your job. Hopefully over time, it becomes more than that.

The idea that you have no time to manage your money is a cop-out. Its not a fun job, so people don't want to do it. And they spend more than they should, and they fail to pay themselves first.

I started to contribute to a 401k in the early 90s. By the year 2000, I was maxing that contribution. I also "pay myself" in ways that are more liquid so that if something bad happens, I have money on hand and don;t need to borrow against the 401ks I have (I have more than one now).

And I'm not a trader. The easiest approach is to maintain one index fund, and a mutual fund. When the market moves above recent historical highs (say for the last year or two), you shift more money to the money market account. When the market pulls back and falls below its historical lows, you move money back to the index fund.

I did this in 2008 - 2009. I moved money to the mutual fund after we crossed over 13,500. The DOW had not been above 13,000 for the years 2000-2008. And then I started to move it back in Jan 2009 when the DOW was at about 7600.

If you invested ~16k in a 401k in 2009 (the max), you've just about doubled that money as of today.

As for fees for re-balancing, those would become large if you try to re-balance every couple days. Don't do that.

Or just stick it all in a money market and leave it there and just take the match and the tax breaks. Again, still better than your checking account or a CD.

Now that we've passed into a new high zone, I've rebalanced to increase my money market allocations.

I also shifted my new contributions to that account.

If the DOW drops to about 13k, I'll consider shifting some again, or maybe just change where my new contributions go, which costs nothing.

Manage your money and pay yourself first.

[earthside]

43. And what are money markets paying?

You aren't really even preserving your capital if the interest paid is less that the rate of inflation.

Of course, an individual can re-balance, but that is still pretty much a guessing game, especially with the limited knowledge most average Americans who have 401Ks have.

You put your money into a mutual fund or a managed fund that has the next MCI in it ... and you can lose a huge chunk of your contributions and accumulation virtually overnight.

The point is those of us with 401Ks are pretty much stuck in an investment vehicle that we have very little control over ... so Dow 30,000 wouldn't even mean much unless you are over 59 years old and can sell out.

[Lurker Deluxe]

50. so put some cash in a bag

Put some cash in a bag and hide it in your closet.

I never get the complete hatred of 401Ks. Would a defined benefit pension be better? Sure ... How many people have one of those? Even in the heyday of union membership how many people had them?

So put your money in the straight savings plan that any 401 has, no risk at all. Sure no benefit except that employer match.

We had a guy here at the shop who just would not enroll in the 401k, all he would say is "enron, you will all feel stupid when all your money is gone". Some ten years this guy has worked here, even if he just put the minimum to get the match he would have at least 50K in the damn thing.

The DOW at 30K would certainly mean something ... double my money, split it, put half in a fixed income account and let the rest ride it out. I have excellent control over my money in my 401K (Prudential) and have it split up to have equity (dividend) accounts, growth funds, foreign investment, fixed income, and all sorts of junk in between. Mutual funds seldom have enough invested in one company to have "the next MCI" do more than 4-5% damage to the funds overall value.

And, at 59.5 you sell out, what are you going to do with your money then? Put it in the bank and get ... the same damn thing you would get if you left it in the 401K and put it in the fixed income brackets.

If you have no interest in learning about money ... you will never have any. You will get fucked on your mortgage, your car note, and damn near any major purchase you ever make.

[dkf]

28. This keeps pensions going too.

The ability to retire with a decent lifestyle comes from investing no matter who you are.

[ProSense]

11. Remember Clinton's DNC speech?

He mentioned "arithmetic" and how the Dow always does better under Democrats.

The amount of hi-fiving and reposting of that speech was epic. Obama should deploy the Big Dog became the chant.

Well, here is proof Clinton was right, but of course, this is something to attack President Obama over.

[kenny blankenship]

12. Just as personal income drops by the greatest % amount in 20 years.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2013/03/01/personal-income-falls.html


The Commerce Department released numbers showing that personal-income growth dropped 3.6 percent in January—the largest fall since 1993. The news comes after a 2.6 percent rise in December, due in large part to dividends and bonuses paid in anticipation of tax increases. Consumer spending also rose 0.2 percent—but mostly because of higher heating bills. Spending on both cars and clothing decreased.
Read it at USA Today

March 1, 2013 10:39 AM


THAT'S REALLY GREAT TIMING, DOW JONES! GOOD FOR YOU!
YOU DA MAN, ONE PERCENTERS!

[ProSense]

17. "The news comes after a 2.6 percent rise in December"

Why was there a large drop? From the link:

There were spending declines in January for big-ticket items that last three years or more, like cars and appliances, and non-durable goods, like clothing and food. Some economists said the declines could be blamed on a 2% federal payroll tax cut expired Dec. 31. Income taxes on the wealthiest Americans rose starting Jan. 1.

[tjwash]

19. It's amazing to me how pissed off that people here are getting about that

It's almost like there is a hoard of very vocal doomsday screamers that are actually disappointed that that the entire world economy hasn't collapsed into a heaping pile of rubble yet.

[JoePhilly]

31. Back in the summer of 2009, 2010, and 2011 ... some on DU were SURE that

the DROP in the DOW which occurred was PROOF that Obama was screwing up the economy and causing a DOUBLE-DIP recession.

The DOW kept going up, and so they've stopped saying that.

Now, an INCREASE in the DOW is PROOF that Obama is a corporatist who is screwing up the economy.

See how easy that is.

[jschurchin]

20. For me personally, this casino is soooooooooooooooooo

out of touch with reality that it no longer matters.

I have $0 invested in this rigged game. I learned my lesson in 2008. There are people that tell me how I'm missing out on this HUGE bull run. You know what, maybe I am. I may not be making a fortune, but I surly am not losing one either.

Until the day comes that the fundamentals and the stock market reconnect, I'll stay right where I am.

[slackmaster]

22. My paternal grandparents never invested a dime in the stock market during their entire lives

It's possible to do OK with that choice. The volatility and risk are not suitable for everyone.

[dkf]

30. You can also invest in real estate.

Or make a boatload of money.

[liberal_at_heart]

21. yeah now I can officially pay for one semester of my daughter's college and one year of living

expenses for me and my husband. I'm riding the wave and living the high life.

[Myrina]

25. Da, comrade! I wait in anxious anticipation for my socialist dividends!

Oh, wait ...

[reformist2]

29. The best part of this is the Repug non-reaction... they don't know what to say!

[klook]

33. I guess the Sequester worked!

Another brilliant move by the Tea Party pays off! ...well, until the economy gets shitty again, and then it'll be because of "Obama's sequestration cuts."

[aaaaaa5a]

34. Obama's socialist policies just continue to ruin America. nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

35. Does that mean that the politicians on the corporate payroll get a raise?

[tridim]

36. My parents' broker advised them to get out of the market 4 years ago..

Because it was going to crash to almost zero after Obama won the election!!!!111

Today they still blame Obama for their losses, not their idiot teabagger broker who lied to them.

[A HERETIC I AM]

42. Maybe their broker reads the Stock Market Watch thread

DU's regular group of permabears. Hell, some on that thread were calling for the Dow to fall to 2500.

[cbdo2007]

48. Wow, sorry for your parents.....

but geez they only have themselves to blame.

[Johnny2X2X]

39. Retirement

Anyone who has a retirement account (401K, IRA) or even a pension that is tied to the market in soome way should be happy about this.

[slackmaster]

47. I am happy about it, but I wonder what's coming next and when it will happen

At my age I have to start thinking about reducing volatility.

[moondust]

40. "We'd like to thank all the little people who made this possible."

"You gave up your good jobs with good salaries and good benefits and settled for a more modest quality of life so that a few of us wouldn't have to remain trapped in those small yachts and teeny tiny private jets. You're the real heroes in all this for the sacrifices you've made on our behalf! Keep on truckin'!"



They're called "parks," Mitt.