My son, a high school senior, is preparing for a debate and he must take the position that America

[DJWBlue]

is in decline economically, politically, etc. Where can he find credible, trustworthy information on the subject? We spent a few hours online tonight searching, but most of the sites were right-wing liberal bashing sites or sites that seemed cluttered with ads to buy gold. Any suggestions? Much thanks.

[Duer 157099]

1. :crickets:

Dude, look to the right, to the left...

[JVS]

4. Seriously.

[Whisp]

2. Where do you live? On Neptune? n/t

[DJWBlue]

3. I basically told my son the same things. But he needs present facts and statistics from credible

sources.

[ChoppinBroccoli]

5. I Could Make That Argument, But A School Probably Wouldn't Like It

Economically, he could argue that the advent of unchecked Capitalism (favoring cutthroat competition over cooperation) and the demonization of oversight/regulation (as well as the stigmatization of political buzzwords like "Socialism&quot has led to economic disaster.

Politically, he could argue that the right-wing noise machine has so poisoned our political discourse that it has made politics into a spectator sport where everyone picks a "team" and then roots for that "team" to defeat the other one regardless of individual beliefs or what is good for the common man.

The subject is just FILLED with nice examples, and I'm sure you could research it all day and all night and come up with tons of material.

I'm sure the teacher who assigned this debate intended it to be a "right v. left" battle. Imagine his/her surprise when he/she discovers that both sides are arguing in favor of the left! Oh, the hilarity. To be a fly on the wall and see the look on his/her face.

[Rider3]

28. good post!

[KittyWampus]

6. He is going to have to define FOR HIMSELF what "decline" means first of all. He could talk about

manufacturing jobs gone overseas, for instance. And that info is not difficult to find from unbiased sources.

Or he could highlight failing infrastructure (like bridges) and that also would be relatively easy to source.

Or he could talk about political gridlock with Republicans failing to offer anything of substance other than proposals to slash any government spending that benefits working class.

[kath]

7. IIRC, Der Spiegel had a lengthy article titled "The End of the American Dream", or something like

that, sometime within the past year or so. It was a very good read.
Heading off to bed, so no time to search for it right now.

Then, of course, there have been many very good graphs and charts posted here on DU showing income inequality, decline of the middle class, etc.
Also, some quite shocking statistics about American health (or lack thereof, due to the fact that we are one of the only developed nations without universal access to health care) that came out within the past few months - life expectancy, infant mortality, shocking number of excess deaths of people under age 50, etc.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers

by Paul Kennedy... is a solid exploration of the mechanics of this.

http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Fall-Great-Powers/dp/0679720197

And no, he is no RW... he wrote this in the early years of the Reagan administration and boy it is prescient in many ways.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. I forgot, The Note is also a good place to look

and they are on line

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/the-note/

Foreign Affairs has also had articles, as well as The Atlantic

[Nabbysensei]

10. Just do a comparison.

Simply show the difference in job growth and job loss during the past 40 years or you could demonstrate the graduation statistics from then until now. Things of this nature. He might demonstrate the lack of innovation or invention. I don't really know as it's very difficult for me to say the United States is in decline, even with all it's political corruption. The United States is still a very formidable powerhouse, economically, scientifically and militarily.

[Luminous Animal]

11. Do you mean America or the United States.

[Spider Jerusalem]

13. EVERYONE means "the United States" when they say "America"

there is only one country in the world that's referred to as "America".

[Spider Jerusalem]

12. here are a few places discussing this, perhaps a good start:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19667754

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/divided-states-of-america-notes-on-the-decline-of-a-great-nation-a-865295.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2012/feb/14/losing-the-world-american-decline-noam-chomsky

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/01/02/think_again_american_decline?wp_login_redirect=0

[ronnie624]

22. Good links.

The "decline" is really an inevitable reduction in the disparity of global power that has favored the US since WWII. US policy planners attempt to cling to that disparity by spending an insane amount of money on the maintenance of their empire. Our government needs a complete change of priorities, before it's too late to mitigate the rapidly approaching environmental disaster.

Chomsky, as usual, sees things clearly:

Putting such unpleasant thoughts aside (of global climate change, which he touched on earlier), a close look at American decline shows that China indeed plays a large role, as it has for 60 years. The decline that now elicits such concern is not a recent phenomenon. It traces back to the end of the second world war, when the US had half the world's wealth and incomparable security and global reach. Planners were naturally well aware of the enormous disparity of power, and intended to keep it that way.

The basic viewpoint was outlined with admirable frankness in a major state paper of 1948 (PPS 23). The author was one of the architects of the "new world order" of the day, the chair of the State Department policy planning staff, the respected statesman and scholar George Kennan, a moderate dove within the planning spectrum. He observed that the central policy goal was to maintain the "position of disparity" that separated our enormous wealth from the poverty of others. To achieve that goal, he advised, "We should cease to talk about vague and … unreal objectives such as human rights, the raising of the living standards, and democratization," and must "deal in straight power concepts", not "hampered by idealistic slogans" about "altruism and world-benefaction."

Kennan was referring specifically to Asia, but the observations generalize, with exceptions, for participants in the US-run global system. It was well understood that the "idealistic slogans" were to be displayed prominently when addressing others, including the intellectual classes, who were expected to promulgate them.

The plans that Kennan helped formulate and implement took for granted that the US would control the western hemisphere, the Far East, the former British empire (including the incomparable energy resources of the Middle East), and as much of Eurasia as possible, crucially its commercial and industrial centers. These were not unrealistic objectives, given the distribution of power. But decline set in at once.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2012/feb/14/losing-the-world-american-decline-noam-chomsky

[bananas]

14. He could use the buy gold sites, but do it as political theatre

like Stephen Colbert, the Yes Men, Billionaires for Bush, Third-Way Manny, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Colbert

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Yes_Men

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billionaires_for_Bush

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2076444
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1869829
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2143810

[JCMach1]

15. Jared Diamond, "Collapse"

but might be a bit long to prepare material from.

[Nabbysensei]

16. ?

Did I say something wrong?

[Revanchist]

17. Use google scholar

Some of the pages will be pay, but you should be able to find enough PDF's to get the info. Just be sure to select the date range you want so you won't be sorting through a bunch of out of date articles.

[Demo_Chris]

18. try here

http://grandfather-economic-report.com/

NOTE: not endorsing any editorial comments or opinions there (haven't read them in years), but it is an excellent source for data.

[treestar]

19. I would start with those statistics about the disparity of wealth

How more and more of the wealth is concentrated into the hands of the few. He could then use that as a springboard.

I read somewhere to my horror that most of the economic recovery is a recovery of the top 1%. We all get some trickle down, but they are "recovering" from their "losses" or, real losses but from a great height leaving them still rich after the loss - at the greatest rate.

Politically, there is the idiocy of the media and how uninformed most voters are.

[MichaelMcGuire]

20. Review journals, official stats, stats from charities

[pansypoo53219]

21. section 3 of REPUBLICAN kevin philip's american theocracy. we are headed to spain circa 1600's.

it's the banking shenanigans.

[Brickbat]

23. I think the fact that a high-school senior doesn't know where to find credible, trustworthy

information is a pretty good illustration on its own.

[EOTE]

24. He could try opening the front door.

Making certain, of course, that his eyes are opened when he does so. I don't think it's a right or left-wing position that this country is on the decline. I think it's been that way for the past 30 some years, only taking minor detours when democrats have been in power. So long as the two parties are as close ideologically as they are now, this decline will continue.

[MountainLaurel]

25. Why America Failed: The Roots of Imperial Decline

http://www.amazon.com/Why-America-Failed-Imperial-Decline/dp/1118061810/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1362677064&sr=8-2&keywords=dark+ages+america

[immoderate]

26. Check out rankings for infant and adult mortality and education.

we have been slipping.

--imm

[graham4anything]

27. I don't understand

You searched hours and then found this site

and are asking which site?

Wouldn't once you finally found this site, ask the question you wanted answered?

Did you ask this question in each of the other prior sites you came across in your search prior to finding this one?

Did you use the correct search words?

btw, some sites have titles that are (like anti-war dot com) is NOT a friend to 90% of America so their name is a misnomer.

[abelenkpe]

29. Elisabeth Warren speech on the Two Income Trap

which can be found on youtube and runs about 50 minutes long outlines why the middle class is under pressure by paying more for basic necessities: healthcare, education and energy than families in the 70s.

[Ganja Ninja]

30. Just wheel in a TV set and let them watch pretty much anything and everything.

Reality TV would be a great place to start then move on to Talk Shows like Jerry Springer and Maury and Morning News/Entertainment. And if that doesn't convince them give them a blast of Cable News on CNN or FOX. I dare anyone to feel positive about America after that.

[virgogal]

31. I raised six kids. Who on earth helps

a high school senior with an assignment?

[cherokeeprogressive]

34. I was thinking the same thing. A high school senior who grew up not knowing a world without

an Internet, who can't do his own research?

I wonder if mommy will be buying his term papers as well.

But then, when a person with only 20 posts asks a question like that... I get to wonderin'. nomesayin'?

[ZombieHorde]

32. This is what I would do. (I'm at school, so I have to keep this brief.)

For affirmative: Focus on the sequester.
Advantages:
1. Tons of info.
2. Negates the argument that everything your son has said is true, but is only evidence of past decline, and the US is currently going swell.
3. Negates "topicality" rebuttals. For example, if your son talks about education in the US, and how other countries are performing so much better, the Negative side can claim education is off topic, and therefore has no bearing on the debate. The sequester touches almost everything, so everything you find is just an illustration of the on topic point.
Negatives:
1. You're placing all of your eggs in one basket. Your son may want to have some other info in case the sequester argument doesn't play out well. Other points your son may want to use are the filibusters, obstructionism, and our infrastructure. Our water infrastructure sucks right now. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/16/us-water-infrastructure-repairs-cities_n_2697003.html

For Negative: Focus on recent, positive developments, such as the ones that can be found here: http://whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com/ . These points have articles to back them up, and should be a major help.
Advantages:
1. Tons of info.
2. Many points of attack.
Negatives:
1. The sequester.
2. The filibusters and obstructionism.
To counter these, you may want to try to flesh out an argument that claims this is all part of the natural process, and are actually good for the country.

General tips
1. Preview all arguments. "I will explain how the sequester and the obstructionism are evidence of the decline..."
2. When listening to the other team, make sure they address every point you make, and if they don't, call them out on it.
3. Quickly write down everything the other side says, and address all of it.
4. If something they say is off topic, call them out on it. If their questions are off topic, to create a broader point, refuse to answer the question and say that is off topic.

I hope some of this is helpful. I would add a lot more, but I have to go.

[MadHound]

33. He needs some stats, some numbers to make his case,

Stats about the decline of real world wages, stats about the decline in US education, stats about the decline of the US in the eyes of the world, etc. etc. Then build his argument around that.

[Ilsa]

35. Decline Since When?

Since Reagan? FDR? Obama? WWII? I think the term of decline needs to be established fairly precisely, then showing sentinel sector declines that result in declines in another sector, etc.