Ariz. Couple Sues Walmart Over Kids' Bath Photos

[rsmith6621]

http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/ariz-couple-sues-walmart-over-kids-bath-photos-114806960--abc-news-savings-and-investment.html


In 2008, Lisa and Anthony "A.J." Demaree took their three young daughters on a trip to San Diego. They returned home to Arizona and brought photos of their then 5, 4 and 1 1/2 year old daughters to a local Walmart in Peoria to be developed.

That should have been that, except instead of receiving 144 happy familial memories, Walmart employees reported the Demarees to the Peoria Police Department on the suspicion that they had taken pornographic images of their children. The police, in turn, called in the Arizona Child Protective Services Agency, and the couple lost custody of their daughters for over a month.

snip

"In order to convict a person of a crime of sexual exploitation of a child, you have to show that the intent of the photographer was to sexually stimulate the viewer. All the experts agree that even police officers don't have the authority to make that decision," said Treon. "So, we argued that Walmart was negligent in setting up this program with untrained clerks and giving them tremendous power over the lives of their customers."

snip

"I fear that what may happen after this case is [that the] employee will sit there and say, boy, if I turn these over my employer is going to spend millions of dollars in legal fees, and I'm going to get hauled in front of a deposition for eight hours, [so] maybe I'll just stick them back in the envelope and not worry about them," he said. "Immunity is supposed to prevent exactly that from happening."

[MineralMan]

1. In 2008? Well, there have been many stories like

this of minimum-wage workers in photo processing places doing such things. Each time, they make the news because photos of kids in bathtubs and lying on rugs in the altogether are taken by just about everyone with kids.

The passing of cameras that use film to capture images should put an end to these stories pretty much, except that the same people who take those photos of their darling children will also post them to their relatives in email, so their relatives can see what marvelous children they have made. And some of those relatives will report the other relatives to the police, since most people have a few relatives who don't like them at all. CPS will be called in and, in a tiny percentage of these incidents, a big hoohurrah will be raised and children will be removed to foster care. Some months later, the kids will be back home and we'll have to wait for the next story.

The real story is that there will always be people who will take some sort of offense from almost anything other people do, and they will find a way to turn that offense into a monumental hassle for those other people. People are funny that way.

Miss Grundy, Mrs. Kravitz, and their like will always be with us.

[Ian David]

2. Last night, I was watching The Colgate Comedy Hour with Abbot and Costello.

It's available on Netflix.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Colgate_Comedy_Hour

During the first episode, they had a commercial for bath sized Palmolive soap bars. The commercial featured a topless girl, about age 4 or 5, in a bath tub, and you could clearly see her dirty pillows.

If it's good enough for 1950 broadcast television, it should be good enough for Wal-Mart.

Here's the commercial:

[HERVEPA]

4. Dirty pillows??

[unblock]

5. yeah, if the product is any good at all, they should be quite clean

[Poll_Blind]

6. It's a classic line from Carrie's mom in the movie "Carrie", IIRC. nt

{B

[HERVEPA]

17. Thanks for the reference. I figured what it meant, but had no idea of origin.

Whoever alerted on it needs a lot higher threshold of being upset

[Fawke Em]

7. From the movie, "Carrie."

Carrie's mother called breasts "dirty pillows."

However, the poster was being sardonic as small girls don't really have breasts.

[Agschmid]

8. It got alerted on.

I don't love the usage.

[Bake]

13. Please please please dear God let me be on that jury!!!!

PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSEEEEE!!

Seriously, you really alerted on the "dirty pillows" post????



Bake

[11 Bravo]

14. Well, for the love of God, PLEASE post a list of the things you DO love ASAP!

That way everyone at DU can rest easy knowing that we haven't caused any distress or discomfort to your august personage. I'm calling for a total shutdown of DU, whereby we will all simply cease to post anything at all until such time as you provide us with the list of acceptable terms and their appropriate usage.

[Agschmid]

21. Things I love...

Only because you asked...

I love pink, I love subarus, I love community, I love educated people, I love movies, I love sunny skies, I love taking risks, I love animals, I love tunnels, I love Wikipedia, I love airplanes, I love San Francisco, I love bridges, I love fall, I love honest people, I love people who strive for the improvement if humanity, I love the dentist, I love vacations, I love my coworkers, I love my boss, I love cherry coke, I love empathy, I love equality, I love Oreos, I love men, I love my apple tech toys, I love fiction, I love the science channel, I love my family, I love myself. And most of all I love a challenge.

I used the DU system as it was intended. My alert failed, I even admitted I alerted. That takes guts, gusto, and the ability to take what is dished at me. Go ahead continue to dish but understand that the system worked and I am cool with it.

I bet if META was still around you all would have made a thread by now.

[11 Bravo]

24. Just having a little fun. (And if I had EVER posted a thread whining about a jury decision ...

in META or anywhere else, I would have probably just gone ahead and shot myself by now.)

[Agschmid]

25. And that why we need a weapons ban!

[Ian David]

31. The irony was that I called them "Dirty Pillows" in a reference to Carrie...

... as a way of poking fun at uptight, provincial, Puritanist extremism.

And then "Exhibit A" hits the alert button.

[Agschmid]

35. Yes...

"Exhibit A" certainly did.

I didn't feel it met the standards of my community. DU is set up so that when something is offensive to people who are members of the community (... Exhibit A ...), they can alert on such things.

I did alert. My alert lost, and by a huge margin 0-6. The system worked. It's all good.

Your irony is not lost on me. But that doesn't mean I (yes me personally) have to be okay with it.

[Ian David]

37. Well, maybe next time I'll say, "fun bags," and your alert will stick. n/t

[dogknob]

42. There's actually some guidelines on this...

at about 1:00

[Honeycombe8]

40. I love Subarus, too!

[backscatter712]

18. Gosh, we wouldn't want to offend your delicate sensibilities...

[Agschmid]

22. You didn't and I'm not really that delicate...

Also this is after all just the internet... It is a weird place.

[Ian David]

28. Seriously? What's wrong with people?

[Ian David]

27. You're supposed to say, "They're called breasts, Mama..." n/t

[Demo_Chris]

9. This entire sub thread is pure win...

But the call for censorship really put the icing on the cake.

[Ian David]

29. I really want to see the email that went out after the great Dirty Pillows Decision of 2013.

Someone please post it?

I want to see if any pearls were clutched tightly enough to turn to powder.

[Agschmid]

36. Here you go, you asked.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Sat Mar 9, 2013, 12:06 PM, and voted 0-6 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Yawn. META is dead, and so is the reign of terror by HOF.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: meh. it references a prudish line from the movie carrie:

Carrie: Look what Tommy gave me, Mama. Aren't they beautiful?
Margaret White: I can see your dirty pillows. Everyone will.
Carrie: Breasts, Mama. They're called breasts, and every woman has them.

and the poster has edited the post anyway
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Obviously you didn't get the reference. Here is a clue: the poster was being sardonic. Here is another clue: Carrie.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: *sigh* I assumed that the poster was using "dirty pillows" as a humorous reference to Steven King's Carrie - in which the hyper-religious mothers uses that very phrase. Anyway, this alert is what is OTT, not the post he/she alerted on.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: While I don't understand why the poster couldn't just say "breasts" or, more accurately, "chest" since this is a prepubescent child, I don't think the phrase is creepy or particularly over the top. Argue the usage in the thread rather than try to hide it.

Thank you.

[Ian David]

38. Thanks! n/t

[Agschmid]

39. No problem. n/t

[Honeycombe8]

41. I think we should change the meaning to men's cajones...their "dirty pillows."

From now on, that's what that will mean. All men have dirty pillows.

Yeah, baby! Austin Powers would be proud.

[Ian David]

43. They're not pillows, because it hurts if you rest anything on them.

How about, "Dirty Mellonballs?"

[Honeycombe8]

45. They are pillows to the observer. That's what name calling is all about.

It doesn't matter that it's not TRUE. All that matters is that the observer thinks it's appropriate and funny.

[Ian David]

46. I have yet to see a poem, or mainstream song, that says, "rest your head on my testicles."

I have no problem with demeaning or ridiculing testicles, but let's at least be realistic about their potential functions.

They can be dirty somethings, but pillows?

That would be like calling someone's nipples "convenient places to keep your fish hooks."

Yeah, it may be funny, but it's not really in keeping within a realistic metaphor.

And when I said, "Dirty Pillows," the joke wasn't really at the expense of women, or at the expense of breasts, but at the expense of people who are prudish and uptight about breasts... like the mother in the move, Carie.

Do you hate women and their breasts?

Or are you just not an it-getter?

From Wikipedia:

Margaret White (née Brigham) is a fictional character created by Stephen King in his first published novel, Carrie, where she is the secondary antagonist. She is the abusive, mentally ill, fanatically religious mother of Carrie White, who has the power of telekinesis. She thinks almost everything, especially things to do with the female body and sex, is sinful.

More:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_White

[Honeycombe8]

48. You don't get a vote in other people's name-calling choices. It's decided.

Dirty Pillows for testicles. Seems okay to me. There's no need to analyze and dissect the term. You didn't do that for its other use, and rightly so.

It's just a little term. Nothing more.

(and no...you won't find many references to testicles in poetry and classic literature, most of it being written by males and in patriarchal societies. But that has nothing to do with "dirty pillows.&quot

[Ian David]

49. You don't seem to be an it-getter.

I'm not saying that "dirty pillows" is an acceptable term for breasts.

I was ridiculing the sorts of people who do.

When it comes to stuff like that, we're in agreement.

If you haven't ever been bothered to see the movie, "Carrie," then at least look it up on Wikipedia.

Derp!

GAFC.

[sharp_stick]

12. I didn't know they laced

Palmolive with LSD, no wonder bathtime used to be more fun.

[lame54]

15. I'm surprised she wasn't also smoking a cigarette

[Ian David]

32. You know, that would be a fun, fake 1950s TV commercial to make....

Winston Juniors... they won't steal your breath on the playground.

[jmowreader]

47. You can't clearly see ANYTHING in that spot

The footage of the little girl is so overexposed she looks like Casper the Friendly Ghost's girlfriend.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. Our Puritan society strikes again

Lesson of the story, if you are a parent...get digital.

[jmowreader]

23. Those parents had gone digital

They brought digital photos on a memory stick, and the clerk, using the theory that dirty old men will get turned on by any photo of a child not fully dressed, called the cops. The cops, too afraid to call normal childhood photos what they are, called CPS. In CPS your annual evaluation is based on how many convictions, child seizures etc. you make so CPS let the parents have it with both barrels.

Sometimes do ya just get the feeling the dirty old men have already won?

[intheflow]

26. Or the clerk themselves were turned on by the photos

and thought they better cover their own asses by offering up the family in sacrifice for their own impure feelings.

[Baitball Blogger]

10. Oh, dear. Time to collect Pappy Bush for taking snap shots of him in the bathtub with the kids.

[Spirochete]

11. So,if this person considered the pics pronographic

that would probably mean that person was titillated by the pictures himself? That's who I'd be looking at as a kiddie porn possibility, actually. Maybe just a neurotic busybody, but maybe not...

[uppityperson]

19. Seriously. The one titillated by the photos enough to turn them in should be looked at.

[Demo_Chris]

30. It's probably Walmart policy

A pedo wouldn't turn them in. At the most he would copy the pics

[talkingmime]

16. That's really weird. I remember when bear skin rug photos of young children were normal.

So was bronzing baby shoes.

What the hell is wrong with taking pictures of young children enjoying their nudity when it isn't of a sexual nature and they're too young to even grasp the concept? Young kids like being naked and there shouldn't be a stigma on that. My eldest was already visually heading into puberty when we stayed in a hotel in Ocean City, MD. After they showered together (LOTS of sand EVERYWHERE it can get), she loudly announced "NUDIE TIME" and the three of them ran around the hotel room like complete idiots, jumping on the beds and everything.

My wife and I couldn't stop laughing. They all developed modesty with time, but we took that incident as a sign of having instilled self-confidence in them, which they still have. It's a healthy attitude and I'm sure those kids in the story will look at those pictures in the future and split a gut laughing, especially when they hear the associated story.

[nolabear]

20. My sons Nana has a bath photo of my sons on the fridge. From 1988.

They have been shown to every old lady in North Carolina. They are adorable and grew up delightful. Those poor kids. I hope somebody can help all the damage they've done.

[Ian David]

34. My parents had a photo of me in the tub, peeing up into the air.

The worst part is, I hadn't shaved that day.

[nolabear]

51. .

[davidpdx]

33. This is complete stupidity

I can already guess Wal-Mart will continue to win in court. What I really hope is that the city of Peoria and the state of Arizona are sued and lose. The actions they took were negligent.

[davidn3600]

44. The problem is in the definition

Society as a whole, and even law enforcement, is confused over what constitutes child pornography. And there is a lot of disagreement over how it should be defined.

The courts have unfortunately not been very clear on this. Rulings have gone from "I know it when I see it" to considering even pictures of kids in bathing suits to be child porn (arguing that such photos could be considered sexually arousing to pedophiles).

State legislatures and Congress have attempted to pass lots of legislation over the years attempting to make the definitions. But the courts have rejected a lot of them calling the laws too broad-reaching. And then the legislatures attempt to patch it up. And it all ends up a big confusing mess.

The vast majority of people being prosecuted today for child porn are cases where there isn't any question. The child in the video or pictures is being raped, abused, or performing sexual acts. Most police and prosecutors don't pursue cases where a child is not engaged in sexual activity in the distributed medium. But there are some, like in this story, that do attempt to go forward mainly because they are confused over the law and think any nude image (or image of a child in their underwear) is porn. And that only ends up taking away precious time, money, and resources from stopping the real child porn out there.

[joeunderdog]

50. How could they be dirty pictures

if the kids were in the tub?