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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTuna caught near California still have traces of Fukushima radiation
http://rt.com/usa/tuna-fukushima-radiation-238/Almost two years after a natural disaster ravaged a Japanese nuclear plant, Bluefin tuna that test positive for radiation poisoning continue to be caught off the coast of California.
Twenty-three months after a tsunami took the Fukushima power plant offline and triggered an international emergency, the effects of the disaster are still being felt thousands of miles apart. This week writer Monte Burke of Forbes draws attention to a new study that shows the lingering damages caused nearly two years ago.
Burke says that a new study from Daniel J. Madigan of Stanford Universitys Hopkins Marine Station suggests that even waters in the East Pacific arent safe from the radiation. Bluefin off the coast of Japan are still showing signs of contamination almost two years after the incident, and migration patterns suggest that fish floundering near the other side of the ocean will continue to show evidence of radiation. And because relatively young Bluefin may have spent the majority of their lives in radioactive ocean waters near Japan, even infant fish are testing positive for radiation all this time later.
love_katz
(2,579 posts)deformed sea creatures in the Gulf, radioactive sea creatures in the Pacific.
Please, let humankind WTFU regarding what we are doing to the life support systems of our planet. The 'environment' is not just pretty scenery for the privileged to jog through. Earth is our only home.
Just, wow.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Is a thread of mine from today.
It is about a CBS news report detailing the fact that fish caught near Fukushima have dangerous levels of radiation. Guess what the Tuna eat?
Here is the answer from your OP:
"...young Bluefin may have spent the majority of their lives in radioactive ocean waters near Japan, even infant fish are testing positive for radiation all this time later."
flamingdem
(39,313 posts)and I wonder if they're even going to be tested.
I switched to Atlantic Salmon but just found out it's farmed and who knows what else.
This is going to be a huge story down the line, until then it will be largely ignored.
Also whether it has gotten deeply into the West Coast food chain. No one tests!
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)It's a tough call. Maybe since Salmon only spend part of their time in the ocean, they won't pick up as much Cesium?
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Closed because there were not enough fish coming back from the Pacific.
At least DUers will know to be careful. Maybe the next civilization will be descended from DUers?
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Just in case.
That shit does move up the food chain.
Apophis
(1,407 posts)That's when I'll buy canned tuna again.
siligut
(12,272 posts)The half-life of cesium-137 is 30 years.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)It's the isotopes with the medium-range half-lives that are the nasty ones.
Substances with very long half-lives emit very small amounts of radiation over a long time - small enough to not be harmful. Elements with short half-lives emit nasty radiation, but don't last very long. It's the stuff in the middle that's the most worrysome - half-lives long enough to ensure they're not going away in a conveniently short period of time, but emitting enough radiation to be a health hazard.
Uranium 235 (the radioactive isotope useful for nuclear technology) has a half-life of 700 million years, IIRC - as long as there's not too much of it in one place, the radioactivity from it is negligible.
Cesium 137 is one of the medium-length isotopes, as siligut mentioned, which is why it's a problem.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)U238 is ~ 4.4 billion years.
Sid
mindwalker_i
(4,407 posts)RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)No kidding. Seems a few soldiers that were sent in to control Fukushima when it exploded sky-high, were warned to not be standing around the other soldiers that went to battle with them.
Seems they are so radiated that they exude radiation and it is possible the added received dose from their fellows could harm them.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Scary stuff indeed.
Mnemosyne
(21,363 posts)FBaggins
(26,733 posts)Of the ones that were identifiably recent arrivals from Japan, the average Fukushima cesium contamination was about 2 Bq/kg.
The average fish in the study had about 400 Bq/kg of Potassium 40.
Interestingly enough... the fish that were not recent arrivals (with no Fukushima radiation), had K40 levels in the 500-700 Bq/kg range.
So by avoiding the Fukushima-contaminated fish... you would be increasing your radiation dose.
Both cesium and potassium are beta emitters.
So the obvious questions is - Given that tuna normally has beta radiation of between 300-700 Bq/kg... why do you really care about an additional 2 Bq when you don't know whether the one you're eating was on the high or low end of an entirely natural range?
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Never mind that cooking a fish in an oven is exposing it to radiation...
FBaggins
(26,733 posts)... radiation from manmade sources for some reason scares people more than the same types of radiation from natural sources.
I need to invest in some aluminum companies. They've got to be making a killing.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)There are actually 5 types of ionizing radiation of concern: Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Neutron and X-Ray and few rarer types like positrons mostly from cosmic rays.
Most isotopes emit more than one type of radiation when they decay, and of course so doing change into another isotope, which will emit more radiation when it in turn decays. The decay mode is isotope dependent, there are quite a few depending how one counts them.
Geiger-counters, the most common radiation-detectors, are generally alpha-beta radiation detectors. They in fact make terrible gamma-detectors, though they can pick out strong gamma-sources as well if they're shielded from alpha and beta particles.
Radon decay chain for dummies: http://home.howstuffworks.com/home-improvement/household-safety/tips/radon1.htm
FBaggins
(26,733 posts)The anti-nukes can't pretend that this ignorant position isn't really something that many of them believe as long as you're around. Who needs a straw man when you're willing to adopt those positions?
"manmade" radiation is no more or less dangerous than the same type of radiation from a "natural" source.
Most isotopes emit more than one type of radiation when they decay, and of course so doing change into another isotope, which will emit more radiation when it in turn decays
Cesium 134 decays to Xenon 134 - which is not radioactive.
Cesium 137 does make a quick stop to Barium 137m, but that's gone within minutes and you're left with stable Barium 137.
Potassium is actually more likely to decay by more than one path - but both are stable daughters.
So once again... there are three elements involved and all are beta emitters. That natural one found in all tuna emitts hundreds of times the amount of radiation that the cesium does. Go ahead and tell us again why that's still dangerous because out bodies aren't adapted for the manmade stuff. I need the laugh.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)I forget, what is the half life of cesium 134? And cesium 137? One of them has a fairly short half life the other long. So like you say they decay and keep emitting. And in that decay there are now 2 different kinds of emitters emitting radiation in your body and for how long.
24 hours a day, 7 days a week this un-natural man made radioactive metals that our bodies are not adapted to are radiating maybe your breast, maybe your prostrate.
And you laugh at it.
FBaggins
(26,733 posts)Neither is particularly long or short (one is about 2.5 years and the other is about 30 years)
So like you say they decay and keep emitting.
Like I say? I wouldn't be so ignorant to pretend that when something decays to stability that it "keeps emitting".
And in that decay there are now 2 different kinds of emitters emitting radiation in your body and for how long.
There are lots of them emitting inside your body. But your body can't tell the difference between a beta ray from one or another. If you eat a serving of this tuna you'll have 400,000-600,000 beta disintigrations in your body in the first hour. One or two thousand of them will be from the Cesium (only some of which is from Fukushima). Which can you happen to pick off the shelf could make 100-times the difference as whether or not it swam near Japan.
24 hours a day, 7 days a week this un-natural man made radiation that our bodies are not adapted to
Always reliable in doubling-down on the tinfoil hatery. Your body had better be adapted to it... since it's been there since you were born.
And you laugh at it.
Oh heavens... I hope I didn't give you that impression.
I was laughing at you.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Is that how you get your cookies? Doesn't seem very liberal or progressive. In fact it reminds of Limpballs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cesium#Health_and_safety_hazards page:
"Because of its beta decay (to 137mBa), 137Cs is a strong emitter of gamma radiation. Its half-life makes it the principal medium-lived fission product along with 90Srboth are responsible for radioactivity of spent nuclear fuel after several years of cooling up to several hundred years after use."
Meaning cesium 137 stays radioactive for a long time.
You keep offering up all this health advice about radioactive particles in our bodies, yet you are not a health professional. The health professionals all understand that radiation accumulates and can cause cancers, but they can't pin it down. Yet here you are making health care pronouncements!
Again, reminds of of Limpballs. Is Rush where your schtick comes from?
FBaggins
(26,733 posts)What do you expect people to do? It isn't "how they get their cookies"... it's you standing in front of them making silly faces.
Listen... if it's a medical condition.. I apologize. But if not and you keep making these kinds of mistakes in the face of clear refutation... what can we do but laugh? You've been shown that the natural variation in radioactivity in these fish is itself hundreds of times larger than the amount of radiation they're emitting from Fukushima sources... but you're worried about it anyway because you think that the "manmade" stuff is dangerous in any amount.
You keep offering up all this health advice about radioactive particles in our bodies, yet you are not a health professional.
One need not be. There are plenty of definitive resources available from those who are.
The health professionals all understand
Sorry... you don't know what you're talking about. There are real health professionals who specialize in the subject who HAVE "pinned it down". The science is called "health physics" - and they all agree with me. In your corner are handful of fringe nuts who are in no way experts in the field.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Sort of like the depleted uranium thing: people get so worked up over the remaining bit of radioactivity that they ignore the fact that it (and the molybdenum and tungsten also in the shells) present a much greater toxic threat than a radioactive one.
FBaggins
(26,733 posts)You're right about DU, but Cs is MUCH more active than DU is. It would be hard for you to find enough cesium anywhere to be a chemical toxicity issue for you.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)If you had any idea what you were saying and what this thread is about, Recursion, you wouldn't have written any such thing as this:
""Never mind that cooking a fish in an oven is exposing it to radiation...""
Radiation passes right through a body. Radioactive particles such as the cesium found in the tuna can stay in the body and emit radiation for years.
The radiation from an oven passes through the item. But cesium, and the other radioactive, man made metals are ingested and if not passed through the body stay and emit radiation 24/7.
So, you are surely asking yourself at this point whether you were doing any critical thinking. Are you now?
FBaggins
(26,733 posts)But not doubt you've "adapted" to that beta radiation... right?
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)The bomb testing, the various releases by nuke plants, Chernobyl and Fukushima. They are making all our bodies more radioactive. In fact, some really caring scientists actually began detailing the increasing radioactive particles in our bodies many years ago. This link tells the story:
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/opinion/51585989-82/nuclear-radiation-scientists-bullets.html.csp
There is no 'safe' exposure to radiation
Bioaccumulation is one reason why it is dishonest to equate the danger to humans living 5,000 miles away from Japan with the minute concentrations measured in our air. If we tried, we would now likely be able to measure radioactive iodine, cesium, and strontium bioaccumulating in human embryos in this country. Pregnant women, are you OK with that?
Hermann Mueller, another Nobel Prize winner, is one of many scientists who would not have been OK with that. In a 1964 study, "Radiation and Heredity", Mueller spelled out the genetic damage of ionizing radiation on humans. He predicted the gradual reduction of the survival of the human species as exposure to radioactivity steadily increased. Indeed, sperm counts, sperm viability and fertility rates worldwide have been dropping for decades.
These scientists and their warnings have never been disproven, but they are currently widely ignored. Their message is very clear: Virtually every human on Earth carries the nuclear legacy, a genetic footprint contaminated by the Cold War, Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, the 400-plus nuclear power plants that have not melted down and now Fukushima.
Albert Einstein said, "The splitting of the atom changed everything, save man's mode of thinking; thus we drift towards unparalleled catastrophe."
FBaggins
(26,733 posts)The bomb testing, yes. The rest make up a tiny fraction of a percent of your total dose. Whether you keep your windows opened or closed during the spring and fall make a bigger difference to you than Fukushima does. Bioaccumulation and all.
There is no 'safe' exposure to radiation
Please define "safe" for purposes of this debate. What does "safe" mean to you?
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Good luck getting by without Vitamin D, or heat.