I want to thank every DUer who has survived/endured sexual assault and discussed it here.

[WilliamPitt]

The DU conversation on rape, assault, rape culture and everything else that travels in this wretched applecart has been going on (in GD anyway) for a long while now. I, for one, have learned a lot, and have been required to look inward at a variety of things that I'd honestly never considered before. The conversation has gotten ugly more than once, but it is an ugly topic, and painful, and burdened with all the baggage that upbringing and culture and ignorance and anger brings along.

In particular, I am deeply grateful to the DUers who have survived/endured sexual assault, and have chosen to speak of their experience here. It takes a tremendous amount of personal courage and strength to bring up and speak out about such horrors, and that shared experience has given profound and important depth to the conversation. Of course I wish it had not happened, but it did, and by sharing it, you have made me and many others think very hard about a great many things, and I thank you for that from the bottom of my heart.

Also, in case you didn't know, this just happened:

Sexual Assault Survivors Support (Group)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1266

[babylonsister]

1. Rec'd; thanks, and you're right.

I thank everyone for sharing.

[rhett o rick]

2. Well said Will Pitt. nm

[TxDemChem]

3. Thank you

It is for this reason that many of us have come forward. But I found my voice recently and, if nothing else, I hope to spread wisdom. I'm so relieved to know that our efforts aren't for naught. Thank you again.

[salin]

4. There has been a cost.

Back in oct or nov. 2012 when these threads began (and in my decade as a member - I have never had my rape survivor experience conflict with my participation at DU.) I participated - and while I recognize that the support shown is very strong - the experience has left me - by some of the responses (including threads that could have been written by the person who raped me per the content and type of excuses) lasted for days (or weeks) and were never locked - per DU juries. That reality amplified the voice of those who were not speaking - not the survivors voice, nor the voice of survivors. It amplified the voice of those who state positions that are more aligned in sympathizing with those who rape than with those who have been victimized by rape.

I have been an active participant at DU for more than a decade. In this period I have stopped being a star member. After every two weeks or so I reconsider. Then another thread appears - where a minority voice makes arguments that perpetuate arguments that subtlety endorse mindsets that rationalize the behavior of those who have committed (or will commit in the future.)

I engaged some of those discussions. And then I became so appalled (not by the majority of posts, but by those appalling OPs and posts that were allowed to stand by DU juries that justified such events (ala: it is so *hard* for men to know where the line between sex and rape lies - or the claim that false accusations of rape are as common as - or more common than actual rapes) that I have let my star slide.

I am no longer traumatized by my rape (it was a long time ago.) But like most survivors, I have two lives that are distinct: life before rape and life after rape - because the emotional, psychological and physiological effects are profound enough that how one experiences life before the event and after the event are permanently altered. For me, after all of the intervening years, and with help along the way, I no longer experiences the effects of PTS. However, I have lived the reality of the findings of studies that many rape survivors have distinct life phases: life before rape and life after rape.

Reading posts that are either dismissive of the damage wreaked on rape victims, or those that rationalize the mindset of those who rape (including an extreme case where committing multiple rapes decades ago), or those that dwell upon the damage done to those accused of rape (often followed by implied claims that false accusations are far more frequent than actual rapes), is bad enough. Worse is that juries of my peers - vote to let these stand. On many threads/posts. Not the majority, but a silent minority of DUers who are not willing to go public with their sympathetic views to those who commit rape - but those who will anonymously vote on juries to let these posts/threads stand.

My point, getting engaged enough in some of these conversations has had a cost for at least this survivor. While I have had disagreements with other DUers on very emotional issues (ex. the initial days of the War on Iraq - I saw it as fraudulent - others came to that realization later), this five month discussion has distanced me from DU.

[bettyellen]

8. Great post, thank you Salin. The silent acceptance of all that by our Mods here is disheartening

As been their cryptic responses for a beefed up TOS: (paraphrased) "It would be easy to do, but we won't. "
It gives one pause.

[WilliamPitt]

11. I'm sorry.

[timdog44]

12. I am sorry

you have to divide your life into pre rape and post rape. I can not imagine what it must have been like to have had that happen. I too find it ugly what some of the posters here have so callously said. I am sure some from ignorance, but some from ingrained sexual mores. And those are excuses. To humiliate someone is wrong. Period. Rape is at the high end of humiliation. It is one of those things that should be so egregious as to be non-negotiable and innately wrong, that there really should not have to be any discussion.

I certainly hope the few posters who have been so callous about this are few and far between. The problem is that just one drags the whole of us down with them, and it feels like there are many. Kudos to your strength.

[myrna minx]

15. Oh Salin...

Thanks for giving voice to me. You are a treasured member here.

[boston bean]

17. +100

The ones who proclaimed that rape victims got off on being victims, years later, made me want to hurl.

The post where it was proclaimed his wife "forgot about being raped" was fucking disgusting, not just the post, the jury that left it standing, but those who agreed you could!

Rape in quotes "rape" left by a jury. Attacking those who spoke against this. A fucking disgusting display.

A real fucking slithering low.

[LiberalLoner]

28. I remember every one of those examples.

Yup, I mostly stay silent here now. DU is not my home anymore.

[blm]

26. (( ))

and right on!!!

[LiberalLoner]

27. +1 me too. I still pay but no longer feel I'm part of DU or safe here.

I guess I no longer really want to be here.

[TxDemChem]

33. Although I am fairly new to DU,

I have run across a few of those comments. I don't have the energy to argue with ignorance, but people like you make me less afraid to come forward and put in my two cents. I don't blame you at all for backing away from DU after being forced to read the bullshit that some post and the juries' decisions not to remove the comments. But I am do glad that I found you. A voice of reason, understanding and maturity.

[krispos42]

5. K&R n/t

[Ilsa]

6. While I no longer suffer

From PTSD from it, trying to discuss the painful subtle effects of being raped brings back years of painful memories and the anger I held then, and sometimes experience now. But people have to understand that a victim doesn't just "move on".

If we are going to raise our daughters to believe that their sexuality is precious, even sacred, then why wouldn't rape be a psychologically, spiritually, demoralizing and humiliating life event?

[salin]

20. Exactly

even when survivors "heal", survivors are forever altered. I echo your words "people have to understand that a victim doesn't just 'move on'."

[LiberalLoner]

29. +1

[Cha]

7. Yes, brave souls..thank you.

[ismnotwasm]

9. K&R

[In_The_Wind]

10. Thank you Will.

No I didn't know because I have been too busy trying to help other survivors.

[WilliamPitt]

13. Don't thank me.

Thank you.

[In_The_Wind]

14. Sigh. I was thanking you for bringing it to my attention.

[cali]

16. It is wrenching to speak about. I wish I was braver.

Thank you.

[progressoid]

18. I can't imagine.

Every time I read a post I'm angered and saddened and stunned and a host of other emotions. As a father of two daughters, my heart goes out to all those that have suffered.

I can't imagine.

[demmiblue]

19. K&R

[NCTraveler]

21. Good post. I have also learned a lot from their posts.

I would like to add something. To all of the DUer's who have survived/endured sexual assault, and are net yet able or ready to speak about it, our hearts and thoughts are with you. Hopefully some of the things your read here, posted by many very compassionate people, will in some way help you through your struggles.

[WilliamPitt]

22. ^^^ This. ^^^

[redqueen]

24. Thank you, NCTraveler. nt

[Evoman]

23. It makes me so angry. So angry that so many have suffered.

And it makes me angrier that sometimes victims are just....dismissed. Blamed. Even mocked.

Arghhh....

[undergroundpanther]

25. Joined the group.

And it really irks me when people who have never faced pedophilia rape and rape,blow surviviors off like we are just being dramatic or acting.when I flash back it truly is like it is happening.Sometimes you cannot heal from trauma.I have gotten better but it still has radically changed me,and I don't know what it means to be healed anyway,I don't have a pre-post rape division in my life.I can only wonder what things might have been like if I was safe from pedophiles as a kid and kept safe as a teen/young adult.If all this stuff did not scar me this bad.Sometimes I wonder if I will ever function..be happy,trust.
But it makes me so mad,ungodly furious,how casually rape is taken on DU,I wish I could find these few posters that snark every rape or feminist thread in person,bet they'd not be so snarky then. Rage is my life, and I have found a few constructive outlets for it,and no,I won't shut up,be nice,or excuse callousness about rape.If every survivor was intolerant of rape,and every non survivor was taught to not blame victims or make excuses,it would be a better world.
My wish is for pedophiles and rapists when caught the 1st time they had big a notch cut out of their ear so everyone would know they raped.
2nd time caught Kill them.
You have to be intolerant of intolerable people.If you tolerate the intolerable,you get PTSD,and your own mind will make life intolerable for the rest of your life.

I HATE rapists and pedophiles,every one of them.I have 0% pity for them.

[LiberalLoner]

30. +1

[LiberalLoner]

31. Thank you William Pitt. It helps so much there are men like you out there.

[love_katz]

32. What is so very painful to comtemplate...

is how far we are from ending the hatred of women, ending the bigotry and discrimination against us, including the fact that rape is a violent assault against the woman, meant to inflict pain, fear, humiliation and suffering on the victim. The rape apologists don't seem to want to acknowledge those facts.

Therefore, I thank you, WilliamPitt, for this post.

You, Sir, are the reason I found DU in the first place. I first began reading your columns over at Common Dreams.

Here is hoping that someday, we will live in a world where assaults, especially sexual assaults DO NOT HAPPEN!

An even loftier dream would be the creation of a society where young women are taught to be proud of their bodies and sexuality, and in ways that are healthy and empowering for them (which we most definitely DON'T have at the current time). Unfortunately, the fundy fanatic extremists, and their enablers understand that this would undermine their desired power-over society, so they continue in their efforts to divide and conquer.

[LiberalLoner]

34. Beautiful post! Thank you for writing it and thank you for being here.

[libodem]

35. They are very brave

I hope they can comfort and inspire one another.